Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DevaAshera]

Do tell.

I am most curious about the Bayonetta aftermath though since she’s my main.

What was it like?

To put it simply, fans had done fan polls on various sites and used them as conclusive, concrete evidence that certain characters were 'locks'..usually Shovel Knight or King K. Rool..and cried like banshees when Bayonetta was revealed as the 'winner' of the Ballot, crying foul, saying it was fixed or that they clearly knew the true results of the Ballot based purely on fan polls that only the most hardcore Smash fan actually took, leading to a skewed perception of the results.

While, yes, we now know that she most likely wasn't the winner, as the Ballot was a covert attempt to collect info on who would be good to add into Ultimate most likely, it was still poor form and quite childish. Honestly though, if she truly wasn't the Ballot winner, perhaps the team should have gone with a more realistic winner, such as claiming the Ballot Winner was actually Cloud Strife, since that just seems far more likely and more easily believed..though people would still be claiming Shovel Knight or K. Rool really won.

 

[Wunderwaft]

While, yes, we now know that she most likely wasn't the winner, as the Ballot was a covert attempt to collect info on who would be good to add into Ultimate most likely, it was still poor form and quite childish. Honestly though, if she truly wasn't the Ballot winner, perhaps the team should have gone with a more realistic winner, such as claiming the Ballot Winner was actually Cloud Strife, since that just seems far more likely and more easily believed..though people would still be claiming Shovel Knight or K. Rool really won.

I don't think claiming Cloud was the winner would've been more believable than Bayonetta. Literally no one was expecting Cloud, not even people like me who actually wanted him to be playable way before he got revealed.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

To put it simply, fans had done fan polls on various sites and used them as conclusive, concrete evidence that certain characters were 'locks'..usually Shovel Knight or King K. Rool..and cried like banshees when Bayonetta was revealed as the 'winner' of the Ballot, crying foul, saying it was fixed or that they clearly knew the true results of the Ballot based purely on fan polls that only the most hardcore Smash fan actually took, leading to a skewed perception of the results.

While, yes, we now know that she most likely wasn't the winner, as the Ballot was a covert attempt to collect info on who would be good to add into Ultimate most likely, it was still poor form and quite childish. Honestly though, if she truly wasn't the Ballot winner, perhaps the team should have gone with a more realistic winner, such as claiming the Ballot Winner was actually Cloud Strife, since that just seems far more likely and more easily believed..though people would still be claiming Shovel Knight or K. Rool really won.

Thank you so much for the down-to-earth approach to speculation. I've been lurking here for ages and it always gets me happy when I see people being actual thinking adults

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think claiming Cloud was the winner would've been more believable than Bayonetta. Literally no one was expecting Cloud, not even people like me who actually wanted him to be playable way before he got revealed.

Cloud was the face of the ps1 which is why people believe he'd have been better received as the 'winner'. That being said Cloud was already stated to be influenced by the ballot so that wouldn't have mattered and if anything would have pissed people off for Nintendo daring to add someone who's not mostly known for Nintendo

 

[kirbsmash]

-They didn't want a character that virtually no one asked for.

I also heard that Corn is disliked within the FE fandom as well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I also heard that Corn is disliked within the FE fandom as well.

Fire Emblem Fates is a very divisive game with godawful writing and Corrin themselves isn't a very compelling character either which explains that. Roy's in a similar boat for being incredibly flat and having garbage stat growths

 

[Calamitas]

Fire Emblem Fates is a very divisive game with godawful writing and Corrin themselves isn't a very compelling character either which explains that. Roy's in a similar boat for being incredibly flat and having garbage stat growths

Pretty much all of Roy's fanbase is based on his Smash appearance. Everyone who thinks that he is a well-written or even interesting character in his own game is outright wrong.

 

[zeldasmash]

Please tell me more about how badly people reacts to corn

A character that wasn't a popular choice compared to others like Wolf, Snake, K. Rool? Check
A character from a franchise that a lot of people were thinking was overrepresented? Check
A character from a game that wasn't even out, therefore being a pure promotional character? Check
A swordfighter? Check
An anime swordfighter? Check
A character that is disliked within the fandom? Check
A character that is the protagonist of the most divisive game of said series? Check

Corrin had a lot of variables going against him and he still does. He's slightly more accepted in Smash now, but the only reason the FE fanbase like Corrin even remotely is because of Fem Corrin's design. Now add all that when people were expecting Wolf or Snake or K. Rool or Shovel Knight or Ridley or Sora...

...yeah not a good look.

 

[kirbsmash]

Fire Emblem Fates is a very divisive game with godawful writing and Corrin themselves isn't a very compelling character either which explains that.

Man, I wanna see how badly they reacts to Corn being in before their favorite lord.

Also, people calls Cloud a clone of Ike solely because of Final Smash, which is dumb.

 

[I.D.]

I don't think claiming Cloud was the winner would've been more believable than Bayonetta.

Yes it would. Cloud's game is the most sold, most popular JRPG ever unless you count Pokemon as a JRPG. Even if unexpected, it's very believable that lots of people would vote for him. Bayonetta comes from a series that would have been shelved forever if Nintendo hadn't offered to foot the bill for a sequel, which ended up selling worse than the original game. So not only does it seem unbelievable that she would be the most voted character globally, it also comes dangerously close to being perceived as Nintendo flexing their acquisition.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Cloud was the face of the ps1 which is why people believe he'd have been better received as the 'winner'. That being said Cloud was already stated to be influenced by the ballot so that wouldn't have mattered and if anything would have pissed people off for Nintendo daring to add someone who's not mostly known for Nintendo

I get what the point is about. I'm just saying Cloud wouldn't have fared better than Bayo since the people who whined and cried about Bayonetta would still whine and cry about Cloud. Even if Cloud is an icon it wouldn't have changed the salt. Most people I've seen in the fandom were talking about Black Mage, a character that I was actually against. I believed that if a Final Fantasy character was to get in Smash it had to be from the two most well received entries, 6 and 7. Black Mage is a class, not a character.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I also heard that Corn is disliked within the FE fandom as well.

That's kind of an understatement. Fates is widely hated by the FE fanbase for a lot of reasons:

-The story is ass. Pure ass.

-Corrin is basically a high schooler's OC and a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.

-Most of the characters are not so subtly built around very specific fetishes.

-Oh God... So many incest dog whistles...

-Fans were pretty pissed the game was split not between one but technically three games.

-Overemphasis on romance and a lot of it is super cringey bull****.

-One of the games has a forced permadeath of a popular character unless you fulfill a very specific condition that the game doesn't even really hint at.

-Really boring maps and mediocre DLC.

I could go on but Fates is pretty much everything wrong with modern FE rolled into one game. Thankfully, Fire Emblem Echoes is a ****in' masterpiece and one of the best remakes of any game I've ever played, full stop. Three Horses is supposedly really good too but I've yet to play it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I get what the point is about. I'm just saying Cloud wouldn't have fared better than Bayo since the people who whined and cried about Bayonetta would still whine and cry about Cloud. Even if Cloud is an icon it wouldn't have changed the salt. Most people I've seen in the fandom were talking about Black Mage, a character that I was actually against. I believed that if a Final Fantasy character was to get in Smash it had to be from the two most well received entries, 6 and 7. Black Mage is a class, not a character.

Oh you must have misunderstood me, I agree with you

Man, I wanna see how badly they reacts to Corn being in before their favorite lord.

Also, people calls Cloud a clone of Ike solely because of Final Smash, which is dumb.

We didn't care as Corrin got in Smash before Fates came out in English, though we enjoyed the free salt.

Nobody's ever said that though? Granted their final smashes are hella similar but Omnislash clearly inspired Great Aether

 

[Dark Bagel]

Roy's in a similar boat for being incredibly flat and having garbage stat growths

(Insert Lucina chest joke here) Seriously, isn't Roy notorious for having a issue in Binding Blade where he outright CAN'T class-up until super late in the game?

 

[kirbsmash]

Nobody's ever said that though? Granted their final smashes are hella similar but Omnislash clearly inspired Great Aether

You wasn't in youtube or gamefaqs.....I has seen people COMPLAIN about this.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That's kind of an understatement. Fates is widely hated by the FE fanbase for a lot of reasons:

-The story is ass. Pure ass.

-Corrin is basically a high schooler's OC and a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.

-Most of the characters are not so subtly built around very specific fetishes.

-Oh God... So many incest dog whistles...

-Fans were pretty pissed the game was split not between one but technically three games.

-Overemphasis on romance and a lot of it is super cringey bull****.

-One of the games has a forced permadeath of a popular character unless you fulfill a very specific condition that the game doesn't even really hint at.

-Really boring maps and mediocre DLC.

I could go on but Fates is pretty much everything wrong with modern FE rolled into one game. Thankfully, Fire Emblem Echoes is a ****in' masterpiece and one of the best remakes of any game I've ever played, full stop. Three Horses is supposedly really good too but I've yet to play it.

I like fates for the music, Nohr and Niles

Conquest was actually the better of the 3 games. From what I heard, birthright was easy and boring and the characters were all beat by the Conquest counterparts but I never played Birthright so I wouldnt know

 

[Guybrush20X6]

That's kind of an understatement. Fates is widely hated by the FE fanbase for a lot of reasons:

-The story is ass. Pure ass.

-Corrin is basically a high schooler's OC and a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.

-Most of the characters are not so subtly built around very specific fetishes.

-Oh God... So many incest dog whistles...

-Fans were pretty pissed the game was split not between one but technically three games.

-Overemphasis on romance and a lot of it is super cringey bull****.

-One of the games has a forced permadeath of a popular character unless you fulfill a very specific condition that the game doesn't even really hint at.

-Really boring maps and mediocre DLC.

I could go on but Fates is pretty much everything wrong with modern FE rolled into one game. Thankfully, Fire Emblem Echoes is a ****in' masterpiece and one of the best remakes of any game I've ever played, full stop. Three Horses is supposedly really good too but I've yet to play it.

I think there's a good Fire Emblem game in Fates... but you have to play through all the parts and then scramble your memories to get it.

The part that bugs me is the game using Awakening's children mechanics but the story not having a good justification for it. Babies get banished to the shadow realm until they can hold a sword and then get put straight into service.

 

[kirbsmash]

I like fates for the music, Nohr and Niles

I love him, and the fact he's canonly bisexual makes my heart goes 'wow'.

 

[Sari]

I don't think I've ever hated a main character as much as Corrin in Conquest. If anyone is still unsure why Corrin is disliked, play/watch Conquest since Corrin in that game is peak stupidity in terms of writing.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Yes it would. Cloud's game is the most sold, most popular JRPG ever unless you count Pokemon as a JRPG. Even if unexpected, it's very believable that lots of people would vote for him. Bayonetta comes from a series that would have been shelved forever if Nintendo hadn't offered to foot the bill for a sequel, which ended up selling worse than the original game. So not only does it seem unbelievable that she would be the most voted character globally, it also comes dangerously close to being perceived as Nintendo flexing their acquisition.

I'd aim to disagree, mostly because Cloud was the one that broke the "Nintendo connection" fan barricade. Before he got announced, many of us assumed there had to be at least a loose Nintendo presence, and while you could argue Final Fantasy as a whole was tied to them, the crossover SPECIFICALLY said Final Fantasy VII, the one that went PlayStation. Bayonetta, at the very least, had a Wii U sequel at the time, properly funded by Nintendo, so it would make slightly more sense that people might pick a more realistic choice. I'm not saying either choice would end up being believable as the top ballot pick (far from it) but I'd be quicker to assume Bayonetta won than Cloud in that given context.

 

[Fatmanonice]

(Insert Lucina chest joke here) Seriously, isn't Roy notorious for having a issue in Binding Blade where he outright CAN'T class-up until super late in the game?

Roy is notorious for being one of the worst if not the worst lord in the series, yes. Basically the definition of dead weight which is miserably ironic because, in games following, Ephraim, Ike, and Chrom, for example, can sweep entire maps with ease with just a little extra grinding.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Was this discussed yet?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I love him, and the fact he's canonly bisexual makes my heart goes 'wow'.

I love Niles so much. He was the only one I was gonna marry my male corrin off to

 

[Deleted member]

Was this discussed yet?
View attachment 257656

Unseen charm...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

(Insert Lucina chest joke here) Seriously, isn't Roy notorious for having a issue in Binding Blade where he outright CAN'T class-up until super late in the game?

Yeah that's an issue for Roy in his game too but his stat growths are arguably worse as there's a good chance he gets bad to meh level ups

You wasn't in youtube or gamefaqs.....I has seen people COMPLAIN about this.

Ok but youtube comments and gamefaqs posters aren't actually people and just look for reasons to be upset. Granted, this place isn't better

 

[Fatmanonice]

Was this discussed yet?
View attachment 257656

Based on the consistent pattern of Amiibo releases happening the same month as character releases among other theorycraft, I figured this would be the case but it's nice to finally have confirmation on it. Thanks for bringing this here.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that this means that FP5 will be released right after the showcase is over.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Was this discussed yet?
View attachment 257656

Thats not what I see. It says nothing about it being out on the same day

 

[KayaMarley]

Hell yeah cutting Piranha Plant would guarentee a different character. Piranha Plant took just as much time to make as any other character, so all that time could've gone to a different character to make.

Also Piranha Plant just being in isn't the main problem, the main problem of Piranha Plant is what it says about other characters and their future. People keep going on saying anyone is possible, but we know that is so not the case. We know that Bomberman and the others are all part of the loser gang who lost to a generic enemy in terms of importance. Say all we want but we know that many fan requested characters don't have a future in Smash Bros besides being NPCs. Isaac has no future, Skull Kid has no future, Waluigi has no future, many fan favorite have no future. This is Smash Bros ULTIMATE, we been getting characters that were fulfilling so many requests, telling use that character like Ridley weren't impossible, giving hope that just maybe these guys have a chance. But if fan demand support lost out to a generic enemy that no one ask for when there are only 7 newcomers for the base roster then that's the indicator that tells us how insignificant these fan favorite characters really are. These are characters that are never going to get in now, they're the bottom of the barrel. People aren't happy being shown how much of a terrible choice Sakurai really thinks of these characters if he rather have picked a generic enemy and stop adding Nintendo character.

But that's something you just choose not to understand.

Bruh bomberman got cut because Sakurai and the company that makes the bomberman games couldn't come to an agreement on his moveset, and since he was running out of time to make that character he turned it into an asssist trophy, sent it to them and they were happy with it. if your asalty blame the bomberman people for that one, not sakurai lmao. also you keep saying so and so lost to a basic enemy. do you know how many games and forms/abilities that plant has had/been in? them not making him a smash character would have been a shame, as even though it came out of left field, he has an amazing moveset and is all around a treat to have in. it had nothing to do with other characters being less important (except for waluigi. that guy is literally the most useless videogame character to a game like this), it has to do with the individual itself. Sakurai thought about P.Plant as a charcter, loved the idea of it, and decided to put him in. it had nothing to do with comparing it to another character, sheesh. some of you act like Sakurai is personally out to get you, like come on. I have characters i have wanted in for years, but you don't see me bsing about how awful a design choice tha is. hell we really gonna sit here and bad mouth a plant when thee goddamn wii fit trainer is in? get real dude. also them not being in this smash doesnt mean they have no future like what? you do know there will be more smash games right? they arent gonna be able to do something as crazy roster wise as this one again (considering all the third party we're getting) so they are focusing on that. a 70+ roster game is not easy to make, so they are prioritizing what they feel makes sense. smh this is basic game development 101 here

 

[Rangez]

Basically, every time Sakurai farts, he just goes like

"well, farts are generally represented as being yellow, which is very similar to orange. Do you guys know who fits colour theory for orange??? That's right, Arle confirmed. This is EVIDENCE."

It's a shame because I used to really like him up until FP5 speculation.

Eh, I've never bothered with him too much. I would check out his videos sometimes, but I always kinda cringe from the quality of some of them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'd aim to disagree, mostly because Cloud was the one that broke the "Nintendo connection" fan barricade. Before he got announced, many of us assumed there had to be at least a loose Nintendo presence, and while you could argue Final Fantasy as a whole was tied to them, the crossover SPECIFICALLY said Final Fantasy VII, the one that went PlayStation. Bayonetta, at the very least, had a Wii U sequel at the time, properly funded by Nintendo, so it would make slightly more sense that people might pick a more realistic choice. I'm not saying either choice would end up being believable as the top ballot pick (far from it) but I'd be quicker to assume Bayonetta won than Cloud in that given context.

Cloud had appeared on the GBA and 3DS by that point, there's your 'loose Nintendo connection'

 

[ToddCam]

I think the loudest Fire Emblem fans hate Corrin. I don't hate her. She's ok.

However, Shadows of Valentia and Three Houses showed me a far superior Fire Emblem experience, so I do now see how Fates is fairly mediocre. Fates also has two of the worst fictional characters I've ever encountered: Peri and Azama.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I think the loudest Fire Emblem fans hate Corrin. I don't hate her. She's ok.

However, Shadows of Valentia and Three Houses showed me a far superior Fire Emblem experience, so I do now see how Fates is fairly mediocre. Fates also has two of the worst fictional characters I've ever encountered: Peri and Azama.

hey hey hey Azama is great

But you are right on Peri, she ****ing sucks

 

[KayaMarley]

I honestly can’t choose any character to cut in Smash.

No matter how hard I try to choose anyone to cut, I keep having this thought in my mind of not doing so.

I can think of several, though i dont really see the need to cut someone so much as to add someone else.

As for characters i would cut in order from the ones i hate most:
Mii Fighters
Wii Fit
Bayonetta (just kind of a boring character imo)
Rosalina & Luma
Duck Hunt (he can be fun, but god he's got a gross moveset)
I also dont really see the point in having Jiggly puff, but since shes been around since the 64, i get why shes still in (also, this is the game where everyone returns sooo...)
I would also rather Pokemon trainer, just be cut and give squirtle , ivysaur and charizard their own slots. on the other hand, i really like the girl Pokemon Trainer. super cute character design.

 

[ToddCam]

hey hey hey Azama is great

But you are right on Peri, she ****ing sucks

Azama is a sociopath. He doesn't actively murder people, but his behavior is unconscionable.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't think I've ever hated a main character as much as Corrin in Conquest. If anyone is still unsure why Corrin is disliked, play/watch Conquest since Corrin in that game is peak stupidity in terms of writing.

"In order to defeat my father I will help him conquer the world!" Is pretty much it

That's kind of an understatement. Fates is widely hated by the FE fanbase for a lot of reasons:

-The story is ass. Pure ass.

-Corrin is basically a high schooler's OC and a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.

-Most of the characters are not so subtly built around very specific fetishes.

-Oh God... So many incest dog whistles...

-Fans were pretty pissed the game was split not between one but technically three games.

-Overemphasis on romance and a lot of it is super cringey bull****.

-One of the games has a forced permadeath of a popular character unless you fulfill a very specific condition that the game doesn't even really hint at.

-Really boring maps and mediocre DLC.

I could go on but Fates is pretty much everything wrong with modern FE rolled into one game. Thankfully, Fire Emblem Echoes is a ****in' masterpiece and one of the best remakes of any game I've ever played, full stop. Three Horses is supposedly really good too but I've yet to play it.

Wait, who was permadeath'd? I can't remember this.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Bruh bomberman got cut because Sakurai and the company that makes the bomberman games couldn't come to an agreement on his moveset, and since he was running out of time to make that character he turned it into an asssist trophy, sent it to them and they were happy with it. if your asalty blame the bomberman people for that one, not sakurai lmao. also you keep saying so and so lost to a basic enemy. do you know how many games and forms/abilities that plant has had/been in? them not making him a smash character would have been a shame, as even though it came out of left field, he has an amazing moveset and is all around a treat to have in. it had nothing to do with other characters being less important (except for waluigi. that guy is literally the most useless videogame character to a game like this), it has to do with the individual itself. Sakurai thought about P.Plant as a charcter, loved the idea of it, and decided to put him in. it had nothing to do with comparing it to another character, sheesh. some of you act like Sakurai is personally out to get you, like come on. I have characters i have wanted in for years, but you don't see me bsing about how awful a design choice tha is. hell we really gonna sit here and bad mouth a plant when thee goddamn wii fit trainer is in? get real dude. also them not being in this smash doesnt mean they have no future like what? you do know there will be more smash games right? they arent gonna be able to do something as crazy roster wise as this one again (considering all the third party we're getting) so they are focusing on that. a 70+ roster game is not easy to make, so they are prioritizing what they feel makes sense. smh this is basic game development 101 here

I can think of several, though i dont really see the need to cut someone so much as to add someone else.

As for characters i would cut in order from the ones i hate most:
Mii Fighters
Wii Fit
Bayonetta (just kind of a boring character imo)
Rosalina & Luma
Duck Hunt (he can be fun, but god he's got a gross moveset)
I also dont really see the point in having Jiggly puff, but since shes been around since the 64, i get why shes still in (also, this is the game where everyone returns sooo...)
I would also rather Pokemon trainer, just be cut and give squirtle , ivysaur and charizard their own slots. on the other hand, i really like the girl Pokemon Trainer. super cute character design.

You know these posts are a few weeks old, right?

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I can think of several, though i dont really see the need to cut someone so much as to add someone else.

As for characters i would cut in order from the ones i hate most:
Mii Fighters
Wii Fit
Bayonetta (just kind of a boring character imo)
Rosalina & Luma
Duck Hunt (he can be fun, but god he's got a gross moveset)
I also dont really see the point in having Jiggly puff, but since shes been around since the 64, i get why shes still in (also, this is the game where everyone returns sooo...)
I would also rather Pokemon trainer, just be cut and give squirtle , ivysaur and charizard their own slots. on the other hand, i really like the girl Pokemon Trainer. super cute character design.

Easy fix for Pokemon trainer:

Red & Charizard
Green & Ivysaur
Blue & Squirtle

 

[Deleted member]

hero tomorrow are y'all ready

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

It's been a blast, guys!