Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mamboo07]

Is everything going okay here?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Speak for yourself.


I'd be over the moon if Dixie Kong was an Assist Trophy over a random Klaptrap.

I’m pretty sure the vast majority of the Dixie Kong fanbase would strongly disagree with that.

 

[RileyXY1]

Based off a recent spirit board event, I'm going to put my money on a Resident Evil character getting the next DLC spot. Specifically I think it will be Jill Valentine because I think they're going to want to strike some sort of gender balance here. I know Piranha Plant is a female (technically) and Kazooie is also (technically) a female, but I feel strongly that the next character, whoever they are, will be a female character from some franchise. I just think it will be Jill because the timing would be pretty perfect considering that RE3 is getting a remake soon.

However, I think the exact opposite. I think that an RE character is not happening because if there was then they would've timed the RE Spirit event to start around the time the hypothetical RE fighter releases.

 

[Souless_shadow]

Well I hope everyone had a good Christmas, or any holiday you may celebrate, or if you celebrate nothing at all, I hope your day was wonderful. Here's to hoping that we get a direct sometime in early January so we can finally stop arguing over things we really have no control over.

 

[Ben Holt]

My Spirit Promotions [Alternate costumes in brackets.]:
-Geno [Metal Mario, Gold Mario alt. Wedding Peach alt. Wedding Bowser alt.]
-Dixie Kong [Classic DK Alt.]
-Impa (Skyward Sword version, not OOT) [OOT Link & Zelda Alts. TP Ganondorf Alt. LTTP/LBW Young Link Alt.]
-Metroid (The Baby) [Super Metroid Varia Suit, Gravity Suit, Fusion Suit, Phazon Suit, Dark Suit, Light Suit alts. Young Samus alt for ZSS.]
-Baby Mario (Ice Climbers-esque with Baby Luigi) [Yarn Yoshi alt.]
-Bandana Waddle Dee [Unfortunately, Yarn Kirby is not a spirit, so no alt.]
-Krystal
-Blaziken [Detective Pikachu alt.]
-Ninten
-Black Shadow
-None. Balloon Fighter as general retro.
-Hector (Black Knight if Assist Trophies count.)
-See Ice Climbers
-Medusa [Three Sacred Treasures and Classic Pit alt.]
-Ashley [Wario Man alt.]
-Raiden [Naked Snake and Big Boss alt.]
-Tails (Shadow if Assist Trophies count.)
-Louie
-See Ice Climbers
-Tom Nook
-Proto Man echo
-None.
-King Hippo
-Ghosts (Blinky default with alts for Pinky, Inky, and Clyde.)
-Rex (with Pyra)
-See Ice Climbers.
-Chun-Li
-**** you.
-Jeanne echo
-Octoling echo
-Alucard
-Morgana
-Slime
-Gruntilda
-Geese
Other (No Icon)-Rayman

 

[Fenriraga]

I like to pretend that the new Spirit Event is Sakurai's way of telling everyone to eat his shorts for nonstop perstering for Fighter 5.

Do not have cow, man.

 

[StarBot]

”I wish Smash expanded other then the main fighting“

*Smash expands but they add a character that everyone suddenly wants*

”Wtf, nooooo Sakurai, please put them in the main fighting mode”

 

[TheYungLink]

I’m pretty sure the vast majority of the Dixie Kong fanbase would strongly disagree with that.

At this point in time, I don't think we'd be getting DLC Assist Trophies anyway.

As for DK assists I do want to see, I'd want:

• Donkey Kong Jr. (summons vines on stage that act like ladders, complete with coconuts you can touch to become falling projectiles)
• Rambi (runs around damaging opponents like Gogoat does as a Poké Ball summon...maybe Rambi was excluded specifically because of Gogoat, who knows)
• Cranky Kong (takes over Mr. Resetti's old role from Brawl where he'll clog the screen with rants)
• Lord Fredrik (damages opponents by jumping around, and sometimes blows his horn to fire a large, powerful ice dragon projectile)

DK Jr. was always a fun Assist Trophy idea I had in particular, though if he became playable I wouldn't mind either, poor fella's been left behind for so long now.

 

[osby]

I’m pretty sure the vast majority of the Dixie Kong fanbase would strongly disagree with that.

Cool, I was talking about myself.

 

[wynn728]

They didn't have time though and they weren't important enough. Piranha Plant got the priority because Sakurai wanted to do something different and fun with a unique concept that could appeal to some people (It does). People can complain, but at the end of the day, it doesn't change anything. At absolute best, you get one slot back. So, pick one from that list. Got them? Good, because the rest still aren't in and those fans still aren't happy. It didn't matter if it was Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, whoever. The end result does not change even if Sakurai included another more requested fighter because almost all the hatred thrown at Piranha Plant is just every fan base looking for a scape-goat and having one that's convenient because they aren't conventionally popular.

If it wasn't Plant, it would have been Incineroar, if it wasn't Incineroar, it would have been Isabelle, if it wasn't one of those three then you'd just have endless in fighting over which one of any number of more popular characters got in. Hell, some people do whine about all three of those options for "not being ballot picks" as is and come off as excessively ridiculous for it.

Not every character "has to be asked for" and people can find new things they love through characters. Guess what? I love Piranha Plant in Smash, and I'm not the only one. I'm not trading him for one of any more conventionally popular picks personally, and that's exactly the point. Sakurai made a character to appeal to different people. The opportunity cost of Plant is the same as an opportunity cost as any other character in the regard that some people like them, others don't. You can try and spin this as an utilitarian thing... but Smash has a pretty extensive history of ignoring the utilitarian character choice in favor of something more fun or indirectly important to Nintendo/Sakurai. I mean, for god's sake, we got Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch before Wario, Diddy Kong, Ridley, etc. and ROB beat how many characters to Smash and he's what, less than an enemy since he's just a toy that functioned poorly?



I'd miss Assist Trophies. They'd be a loss to me, and then you would actually lose a whole lot of the crossover stuff from Smash. You'd lose Shovel Knight, the biggest part of Golden Sun, Fatal Frame, Virtua Fighter, Bomberman, Dillion, ARMS, etc. You actually do lose a lot of value when you remove assist trophies (and since I know you're next step is to complain about Mii fighter costumes, we can't count any of that either, and I'm presuming Spirits go as well for all non-playable fighters). You're actively campaigning to cut down the crossover, to cut down the rich details of Smash through all of its worlds and aspects that people can recognize and enjoy, and cutting entire things out of Smash out of spite at this point. Cutting 59 Assist Trophies doesn't just casually get you Bomberman, Shadow, Isaac, or whoever the hell else. And based upon your comments it seems like you just want to reduce Smash down to a super boring character select screen focused affair with stages and little else.

Seriously, this is the video game equivalent of not liking broccoli and campaigning to have it eradicated because you don't personally like it and think the farm land can be used for better crops.

Glad to know that the dozens of fan requested characters that people voted for on the ballot are worth less than generic enemy #3. Heck, if a generic enemy is way important than freaking Bomberman what are the legit chance of any of these fan favorite characters to ever be playable? Seems like many people picked the losing horse.
And that the underlining problem with a character like Piranha Plant, what it exactly means for so many characters. Their importance, their potential, their future.
Isabelle getting in? Well of course, Animal Crossing is super big. There people that wanted her. She's becoming the face of Animal Crossing.
Incineroar? Well we got to include a new Pokemon. Everyone knew that was going to happen. Most people who argue about Incineroar usually ask for a different Gen 7 Pokemon.
Piranha Plant? Generic enemy that nobody ever ask for. Not even a named character like Bandana Waddle Dee, just a random enemy who's only thing it has going for is being associated with the Mario series and that's it. A character that was never playable in the spinoff game and is always used as an item manage to have higher priority than mant characters that are from the ballot. You know what that tells you? Ever character that's an Assist Trophy, characters that just can't make it in due to having low priority, are losers when compared to Piranha Plant. What kind of future do any of these characters even have if they lost to a generic enemy? Who's to say that they won't put in more character like Piranha Plant over all these fan favorites?

Not every character can be a fan favorite, but need to have the reason for their inclusion to be really clear just by looking at them. When you look at the line up for the SSBU Newcomers they are solid, there's few than before but you can't argue against characters like Ridley, Isabelle, Simon, or K Rool. But Piranha Plant will ALWAYS be the black sheep of the bunch due to how little newcomers there are. Let's give an example shall we:

Let's say you were task to pick pick a couple dozen of apples from a tree. With that task most people will take a quick look at the apple they're picking to makes sure it looks good. Now not ever apple is going to be the best when you're going for quantity, that's to be expected. Now let's say you were task to pick only five apples. You make sure that those five apples are the best apples you can get from that tree. With the lack of quantity you need to make up for in quality. So when you pick four really good looking apples and one rotten apple people are going to ask why'd you pick that when there's a bunch of good looking apples hanging on that tree.

Sure cutting all these Assist Trophies aren't going to magically make them playable, but I rather them not be in instead of Sakurai telling me that all these characters are all part of the loser gain while Piranha Plant is eating lunch at the cool kids table.

Also this comment:
you just want to reduce Smash down to a super boring character select screen focused affair with stages and little else.
Ummm... do even know what Smash Bros is? Because that is the main draw of Smash Bros, playing the game. Pick your character and stage and play. What, do you spend most of your Smash Bros Ultimate time looking at the PNG Spirits you collected? Customizing your Mii Fighters? Or going on training mode just to summon Assist Trophy to see them in action? If you ask me when people boot up Smash Bros they go straight to playing but going to the character select screen. Heck, there was nothing of worth in Smash 4 besides the character and stage select. If you saying that I want to reduce this game to selecting characters and stages is basically saying that I want Smash Bros to be Smash Bros. Do you know that the appeal of Smash Bros is to play the game?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Cool, I was talking about myself.

Cool, but the original context was referring to more than just a single person’s opinion.

 

[wynn728]

I don't think he's talking about morality. He's just pointing out that it's not really a role someone would want their favorite character to be in. A random shot to be on the screen of a few seconds and potentially someone you'd want to KO yourself? That doesn't sound like the position you'd want for your favorite guy.

I said it once and I'll say it again. Assists are a nice way of getting more characters you love into the battle, in theory. But the nature of how they work is abysmal.

I'm sure Assist Trophies would be better if there was more engagement with them. Let's say you can summon an Assist during battle on your command and have it be the character you want, that would make it feel like your character is actually working along side you. I remember a video when about the Assist Trophy tier list they were saying that Hammer Brother is great to summon in this one spot, problem is it's super unlikely to pull that off due to where Assist Trophy items appear and the 1 in 59th chances of summoning them. If you can equip them and choose when to summon them like certain fighting game then that would be great engagement and feel like the character has importance.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I would like to point out that if Assist Trophies weren't a thing, then most if not all of them would be at best Spirits. The entire point of assist trophies is the following

Letting in characters get in on the action, who aren't well known or important to gaming.
Letting in characters get in on the action, who can only really do 1 or two things.
Letting in side characters from a series that already has a few reps.
Having more series represented in Smash well after the based roster has been decided, but before they can began working on DLC.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I can
View attachment 254499


Actually, I have an idea. Name any spirits you want to see promoted, the rules are 1 per franchise with playable characters and only 5 from franchises without characters

Geno
Waluigi (if Geno doesn't count as a Mario franchise member)
Perry should be added to Peach's moveset (not quite a promotion to being playable, but I wanted to mention it)
Skull Kid
Mage Ganondorf (if Skull Kid is ineligible due to currently being an assist trophy)
Masked Link (if the above two are ineligible, and combining Deku Link, Goron Link, Zora Link, and Fierce Deity Link is allowed)
Groose should be an assist trophy or stage hazard with the Groosinator
Leon Powalski could be cool (Star Fox)
Abra (if Pokéball Pokémon are allowed)
Zygarde could be cool (if Abra isn't allowed)
Detective Pikachu should be a Pikachu alternate costume
Ninten, Ana, and Paula should be alternate costumes for Ness or Lucas
Ephraim
Wario with a moveset based on Wario Land
Octoling (using the ink for movement would be cool, but the characters in bold have higher priority)
Andy (if he gets a crazy moveset summoning a bunch of full size units)
Ray Mk III (Custom Robo)
Isaac (if assist trophy is allowed)
Matthew or Felix (if Isaac isn't allowed)
Twintelle

 

[osby]

Heck, there was nothing of worth in Smash 4 besides the character and stage select. If you saying that I want to reduce this game to selecting characters and stages is basically saying that I want Smash Bros to be Smash Bros. Do you know that the appeal of Smash Bros is to play the game?

One of the most common criticism against Smash for Wii U was that there was nothing to do besides playing matches.

That's why so many people were excited about World of Light. That's why Stage Builder being back was a big deal. That's why "Smash fans only buy the games to look at CSS" is a meme because people do care about side content.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So, there's an Alolan Vulpix x Miku collab going on and by Smash Law, it has to be related to Smash.

Miku for Smash, baby

https://snowmiku.com/2020/collabo_alola.html

 

[Fenriraga]

One of the most common criticism against Smash for Wii U was that there was nothing to do besides playing matches.

That's why so many people were excited about World of Light. That's why Stage Builder being back was a big deal. That's why "Smash fans only buy the games to look at CSS" is a meme because people do care about side content.

I'm one of those weirdos that actually had fun with Crazy Orders, to be fair.

Even if its payout became irrelevant after about a week or less.

I feel like something people fail to understand is how much was sacrificed ALREADY in order to make Smash Ult the way it is.

Coin Battles. A Target Minigame. Proper Trophies. All Star Mode. A proper Boss Rush. Stage Builder and Homerun at launch. It was all done so they could focus on a few major things: bringing back all the fighters and most of the stages with them, improving upon 4's engine, and making a meaningful single player.

Is it the best single player? ...No, not by a long shot. I'd call it boarder line bad were some spirits not so cleverly crafted. But it's still content that exists because there ARE people who care about that stuff. Smash is still a game for EVERYONE at the end of the day, not just competitive try-hards like myself. The beauty of Smash is that it can be almost anything you want it to be and it's of a good quality no matter what way you go, be it competitive, casual, single player, multiplayer, online if it worked better, playgrounds, battlefields, etc. It's a fine mold that, while it might not be perfect whatever way you sculpt it, still looks great, and can easily be pressed back down to make something new out of it. Hence why things such as assist trophies are absolutely necessities. It can never be stressed enough how much of a minority we are to the Smash playerbase.

Now we should really drop this dumb Assist Trophy debacle, or at least I'm going to, this is exhausting.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lord Fredrik

You said these characters were from Donkey Kong, but I thought you were referring to Frederick from Fire Emblem: Awakening anyway.

Spoiler: Wall of Text

Glad to know that the dozens of fan requested characters that people voted for on the ballot are worth less than generic enemy #3. Heck, if a generic enemy is way important than freaking Bomberman what are the legit chance of any of these fan favorite characters to ever be playable? Seems like many people picked the losing horse.
And that the underlining problem with a character like Piranha Plant, what it exactly means for so many characters. Their importance, their potential, their future.
Isabelle getting in? Well of course, Animal Crossing is super big. There people that wanted her. She's becoming the face of Animal Crossing.
Incineroar? Well we got to include a new Pokemon. Everyone knew that was going to happen. Most people who argue about Incineroar usually ask for a different Gen 7 Pokemon.
Piranha Plant? Generic enemy that nobody ever ask for. Not even a named character like Bandana Waddle Dee, just a random enemy who's only thing it has going for is being associated with the Mario series and that's it. A character that was never playable in the spinoff game and is always used as an item manage to have higher priority than mant characters that are from the ballot. You know what that tells you? Ever character that's an Assist Trophy, characters that just can't make it in due to having low priority, are losers when compared to Piranha Plant. What kind of future do any of these characters even have if they lost to a generic enemy? Who's to say that they won't put in more character like Piranha Plant over all these fan favorites?

Not every character can be a fan favorite, but need to have the reason for their inclusion to be really clear just by looking at them. When you look at the line up for the SSBU Newcomers they are solid, there's few than before but you can't argue against characters like Ridley, Isabelle, Simon, or K Rool. But Piranha Plant will ALWAYS be the black sheep of the bunch due to how little newcomers there are. Let's give an example shall we:

Let's say you were task to pick pick a couple dozen of apples from a tree. With that task most people will take a quick look at the apple they're picking to makes sure it looks good. Now not ever apple is going to be the best when you're going for quantity, that's to be expected. Now let's say you were task to pick only five apples. You make sure that those five apples are the best apples you can get from that tree. With the lack of quantity you need to make up for in quality. So when you pick four really good looking apples and one rotten apple people are going to ask why'd you pick that when there's a bunch of good looking apples hanging on that tree.

Sure cutting all these Assist Trophies aren't going to magically make them playable, but I rather them not be in instead of Sakurai telling me that all these characters are all part of the loser gain while Piranha Plant is eating lunch at the cool kids table.

Also this comment:
you just want to reduce Smash down to a super boring character select screen focused affair with stages and little else.
Ummm... do even know what Smash Bros is? Because that is the main draw of Smash Bros, playing the game. Pick your character and stage and play. What, do you spend most of your Smash Bros Ultimate time looking at the PNG Spirits you collected? Customizing your Mii Fighters? Or going on training mode just to summon Assist Trophy to see them in action? If you ask me when people boot up Smash Bros they go straight to playing but going to the character select screen. Heck, there was nothing of worth in Smash 4 besides the character and stage select. If you saying that I want to reduce this game to selecting characters and stages is basically saying that I want Smash Bros to be Smash Bros. Do you know that the appeal of Smash Bros is to play the game?

There are more reasons for a roster pick than popularity. There's also diversity (in terms of general aesthetic, abilities, gender, etc.), legacy, and whether or not the candidate could bring something new to the table (some characters require more thought than others, hence why Ridley had to wait three games for his first appearance despite being the main villain of one of the original twelve). A character doesn't have to fit every criteria:
Popular, very unique among the other smash characters, but there's no legacy to speak of yet.
Stands out among the newcomers, high demand from core fanbase, large legacy.
Huge legacy, unique playstyle, low demand.
Decent legacy, huge standout among the cast, no demand outside of the hardcore fanbase.
Feels very similar to Villager, decent appeal, no legacy to speak of yet.
No real demand, no legacy, fun take on the grappler playstyle, personality stands out among the crowd.
No demand, large legacy, fun and quirky moveset, stands out in the "It's so stupid and I love it" kind of way.

I'm not doing the Fighters Pass characters or Echo Fighters, you should get the point by now. Each group of newcomers is what was decided to be the lineup that would give the most people the most enjoyment given the current amount of time, money, and ideas. The characters that get in aren't meant to be better than the ones that aren't, that's subjective. They're just the characters chosen for people who like Super Smash Bros., Pokémon, new characters, old characters, giant space dragons, wild and wacky characters, sweet puppies, and probably more.

I'm to tired to think of a good concluding statement so um...Good night. Do with my commentary what you will. It's mostly just for your brain/because I like throwing in my two cents.

 

[Calamitas]

So, there's an Alolan Vulpix x Miku collab going on and by Smash Law, it has to be related to Smash.

Miku for Smash, baby

https://snowmiku.com/2020/collabo_alola.html

Why would they add Miku? She invented Minecraft, so she's a game developer, not a game character. That'd be like adding Miyamoto instead of Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

The Assist Trophy debacle continued up to today? Geez, it must have been heated.

 

[Cosmic77]

ANOTHER Piranha Plant debate while I was gone?!

How many years will it take before people realize that PP was never intended to be taken seriously? Sakurai saw some moveset potential in it, and he likely said to himself, "You know, it'd probably be pretty wacky to have that thing as an actual fighter. Maybe I'll give it a shot." It was a recognizable character, and since he planned on giving one fighter away as as an early purchase bonus, PP may have seemed like a good choice. Sadly, PP is not Geno or some other popular request. It's only a generic Mario enemy that no one asked for, making it the worst addition to the roster in the history of Smash, regardless of how unique its moveset may be compared to other fighters.

This is giving me "WFT stole (insert character)'s spot!!" flashbacks. It's a headache.

 

[Spongeboob]

Piranha Plant is meh. Not a character I like but I'm cool with its inclusion. Just like Banjo.

I can
View attachment 254499


Actually, I have an idea. Name any spirits you want to see promoted, the rules are 1 per franchise with playable characters and only 5 from franchises without characters

Spoiler: THE LIST

I have a thing for swordies. Also, I didn't even bother with the retro reps besides Dig Dug.

• Super Mario: Either Captain Toad or Geno
• Donkey Kong Country: Either Dixie Kong or Funky Kong
• Legend of Zelda: Tingle
• Metroid: Kraid
• Yoshi's Island: None lol
• Kirby: Marx
• Star Fox: Krystal
• Pokemon: Oshawott
• EarthBound: See Yoshi's Island (I'd put Porky here, but...)
• F-Zero: See Yoshi's Island
• Fire Emblem: Alm & Celica
• Metal Gear: Raiden
• Kid Icarus: Eggplant Wizard
• Pikmin: See Yoshi's Island
• Wario: Kat & Ana
• Sonic the Hedgehog: Shadow the Hedgehog
• Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
• Megaman: ZERO (Yes please!)
• Wii Fit: See Yoshi's Island
• Punch-Out!: Mike Tyson ("but muh VIDEEO GAYMES" FINE, Glass Joe)
• Pac-Man/Retro Bamco: Dig Dug
• Xeno: Rex
• Street Fighter: Akuma (just for his kickass theme)
• Final Fantasy: See Yoshi's Island (and this is where I'd put Tifa)
• Bayonetta: See Yoshi's Island (sorry, not too familiar with this series)
• Splatoon: Octolings
• CastleVania: Alucard
• Persona: See Yoshi's Island (again, not too familiar with this one)
• Dragon Quest: See Yoshi's Island
• Banjo & Kazooie: Mumbo Jumbo
• Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
• Shovel Knight: Preferably either Shovel Knight or Specter Knight but I'm cool with any of them
• Golden Sun: Isaac
• Samurai Shodown: Haohmaru
• Resident Evil: Albert Wesker
• Shantae: Shantae (duh)

 

[Calamitas]

ANOTHER Piranha Plant debate while I was gone?!

How many years will it take before people realize that PP was never intended to be taken seriously? Sakurai saw some moveset potential in it, and he likely said to himself, "You know, it'd probably be pretty wacky to have that thing as an actual fighter. Maybe I'll give it a shot." It was a recognizable character, and since he planned on giving one fighter away as as an early purchase bonus, PP may have seemed like a good choice. Sadly, PP is not Geno or some other popular request. It's only a generic Mario enemy that no one asked for, making it the worst addition to the roster in the history of Smash, regardless of how unique its moveset may be compared to other fighters.

This is giving me "WFT stole (insert character)'s spot!!" flashbacks. It's a headache.

I mean, I don't mind Piranha Plant that much, but I can sort of understand the frustration, given that it is - as of right now - the last first-party character added to the game. It's not exactly a strong note to go out on.

 

[Ben Holt]

I mean, I don't mind Piranha Plant that much, but I can sort of understand the frustration, given that it is - as of right now - the last first-party character added to the game. It's not exactly a strong note to go out on.

To be fair, Piranha Plant's a hell of a lot better of a choice than R.O.B. or Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[PSIGuy]

How many years will it take before people realize that PP was never intended to be taken seriously?

I dunno, kinda seems like everyone upset about it rightfully treats it like a bad joke. Is that taking it too seriously? We're in the character speculation thread, of course people are going to want characters with actual -character- in the game before professional ****posts.

 

[Koopaul]

But according to this thread, “because someone minor character is there favorite, being anything other then a fighter is bad, because it will make those who like these characters fell bad ”

That's not what I said at all. I'm absolutely fine with the idea of assist fighters. I just believe having them be a random item is not the best way to have them be an assist.

 

[Calamitas]

To be fair, Piranha Plant's a hell of a lot better of a choice than R.O.B. or Wii Fit Trainer.

That's debatable. At least R.O.B. and Wii Fit Trainer bring something entirely new to the table, as opposed to just "hey wouldn't it be funny if we added that one Mario enemy that has never been playable in any Mario spin-off".

 

[Deleted member]

I'm...just gonna leave this here. This is supposed to discuss potential newcomers, not whine about "x stole character spot".

If you're all just going to discuss this, then I'm not interested in partaking in it. I'll check if something of interest pops up, like, say, "info on the newest Smash leak" that's probably curated by one of the users here.

Sigh...January is just around the corner and it feels like a decade wanting to get a gripe on a little bit of goddamn info. I'm gonna do better things at the moment, then come back once something actually interesting happens.

 

[Lamperouge]

Piranha Plant was funny for a while but the appeal has definitely wore off for me now.

That, and he doesn't feel very fun to play and kinda sucks.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

To be fair, Piranha Plant's a hell of a lot better of a choice than R.O.B. or Wii Fit Trainer.

Hey, don't go hating on R.O.B. now, he's arguably the reason we're even here discussing Nintendo games to this day.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"Well you see, I asked my family who Shadow the Hedgehog is and nobody did yet when I asked them if they knew what the Moon is everyone did, therefore the Moon is the more important and iconic character and should be the upgraded AT"

***** your family wouldn't be able to tell Samus from a Metroid, we all know that "asking your family" is one of the worst standards for iconic gaming characters.

You say that but my mother who knows **** all about video games knows who Tifa is and said she looks cute. FP5 is Tifa confirmed

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hmm, I do think having the corresponding Spirit spawn an Assist or Poké Ball (e.g. Bomberman, Isaac, Shovel Knight, etc.) could have been an interesting effect for casual play. It would make sense since some Spirits make you start with other items. Like, imagine if instead of having other effects (or no effects), Spirits like Bomberman, for example, were just... Bomberman?

 

[PSIGuy]

Piranha Plant was funny for a while but the appeal has definitely wore off for me now.

That, and he doesn't feel very fun to play and kinda sucks.

People talk a lot about how they love being surprised by reveals and as a result they dislike leaks or spoilers, but I'm of the opposing opinion that a good character will still be good even when leaked or long after their reveal. I still think about how fantastic K. Rool or Ridley's reveals were.

Hmm, I do think having the corresponding Spirit spawn an Assist or Poké Ball could have been an interesting effect (e.g. Bomberman, Isaac, Shovel Knight, etc.) could have been an interesting effect for casual play. It would make sense since some Spirits make you start with other items. Like, imagine if instead of having other effects (or no effects), Spirits like Bomberman, for example, were just... Bomberman?

I would've liked being able to tag 3 assist trophies for All-Star mode. Assign one to each taunt and call them out when in a pinch. I know I'd be picking Lyn, Prince of Sable and Takamaru each time.

 

[DMTN]

I think the circumstances around a character's reveal bear a lot of influence on the community's opinion, even in the long run. While I have absolutely nothing against Corrin and Plant, they hold the record for the least fortunate timing out of any Smash reveal.

Corrin:
- was revealed in Smash 4's final presentation, so he dashed a lot of people's hopes.
- was the 6th Fire Emblem in Smash 4, and the 2nd Fire Emblem character in the DLC.
- was revealed around FE: Fates's release, so many people didn't know him.
- was revealed around a time when 'anime swordfighters' were a frequently discussed topic.

Plant:
- was revealed in the final presentation for Ultimate's base game, which is always an anxious moment for many people.
- had to follow up Incineroar, an already controversial character.
- was revealed minutes after the Grinch leak's death, which was a sensitive moment for some.
- was people's first impression of Ultimate's DLC.

Keep in mind that this says nothing about the quality of the characters. I'm not talking about the characters themselves, but the circumstances they found themselves in.

 

[Deleted member]

Assist trophies are in no way disrespectful. It's the ultimate respect to give them such a highlight, considering people like Alucard, Knuckles, and Zero have characteristics that make them near full-blown actual characters.

If you think it's disrespectful, I think you're just salty about it being a deconfirm. For now, at least.

Yeah. Assist trophies are literally "our newcomer-plans did not fit these characters, but we still decided to include them." Sakurai chose the fighters first, and then the assist trophies. He didn't choose the assist trophies first like, "lol. Wouldn't it be funny if we style on the fans with this?"

 

[KayaMarley]

If its a Square rep, I think Neku from The World Ends With You has a really good chance, given the hint we got from Sakurai. He stated that DLC character 5 was "a mysterious character that is not yet well known." While this could apply to a lot of characters, (again if this is another square rep) this would fit Neku pretty well. Also it's pretty clear that whoever this character is, the goal is ultimately to make them more known, which TWEWY needs. I also see this happening due to how in TWEWY Final Remix, which came out on switch about a year ago, they teased a sequel, which means a smash inclusion could be used for cross promotion.

Also if its fromsoft then it better be Sekiro

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Both Banjo and Ridley were asked for by an enormous amount of fans prior to being added to the game. No one on Planet Earth was going to be disappointed by the Plant not making it in, and while there have been unrequested characters added in the past, the very last game where every veteran was going to return was pretty much the worst time to add one in. I am aware that Sakurai made the decision, I'm saying it was a stupid a** decision and a terrible opportunity cost.


Not exactly, the hate for the concept of Assist Trophies and Spirits being promoted has also grown stronger, as many in this thread enjoy trashing those characters as unimportant garbage compared to their Holy Grail of a generic mook.

How was this the worst time to put Plant in? Sakurai literally went out of his way to bring everyone back so no one got left behind and added a whole bunch of newcomers specifically from fan requests. This was literally the best point for Sakurai to go, "Hey, I've got a cool idea that I want to do and I've made a lot of people really happy, so I'm going to do it." It's like no one wants to cut Sakurai a break for deciding to make something he liked that was unconventionally popular in a game where he basically devoted the entire rest of it to the fans. People just want Sakurai to be a request factory at this point it seems with no originality or unique decision making (despite the fact that very same mindset is what got us Smash in its current form).

I'm not saying people can't criticize Sakurai or the decisions, but the amount of vitriol I see for Plant over a year after his reveal when so much of Smash has been built for the fans in a complete rejection of every single modern fighting game convention in a package that contains 3-4 times the number of characters in the base roster alongside just absolute loads of content that in of itself was working to correct the shortcomings of Smash 4, is just absolutely ridiculous. Especially when the premise of that attack is often, "no one cared about Plant" before like that's somehow supposed to validate criticism when "nobody cared before" is exactly the point of the character and why some people do like Plant now. If it had been an incredibly niche option like Captain Rainbow, there would have still been vitriol since "barely anyone asked for this."

There's not even a guarantee cutting Plant would have resulted in another fighter for crying out loud. Maybe we just would have had Stage Builder at launch, or Home Run Contest, or maybe Sakurai would have brought back another stage, etc. Like I've said, best case scenario, we get another unique fighter that gets to be the martyr for other fan bases everywhere (or just turns Incineroar back into the primary heel).

Glad to know that the dozens of fan requested characters that people voted for on the ballot are worth less than generic enemy #3. Heck, if a generic enemy is way important than freaking Bomberman what are the legit chance of any of these fan favorite characters to ever be playable? Seems like many people picked the losing horse.
And that the underlining problem with a character like Piranha Plant, what it exactly means for so many characters. Their importance, their potential, their future.
Isabelle getting in? Well of course, Animal Crossing is super big. There people that wanted her. She's becoming the face of Animal Crossing.
Incineroar? Well we got to include a new Pokemon. Everyone knew that was going to happen. Most people who argue about Incineroar usually ask for a different Gen 7 Pokemon.
Piranha Plant? Generic enemy that nobody ever ask for. Not even a named character like Bandana Waddle Dee, just a random enemy who's only thing it has going for is being associated with the Mario series and that's it. A character that was never playable in the spinoff game and is always used as an item manage to have higher priority than mant characters that are from the ballot. You know what that tells you? Ever character that's an Assist Trophy, characters that just can't make it in due to having low priority, are losers when compared to Piranha Plant. What kind of future do any of these characters even have if they lost to a generic enemy? Who's to say that they won't put in more character like Piranha Plant over all these fan favorites?

Not every character can be a fan favorite, but need to have the reason for their inclusion to be really clear just by looking at them. When you look at the line up for the SSBU Newcomers they are solid, there's few than before but you can't argue against characters like Ridley, Isabelle, Simon, or K Rool. But Piranha Plant will ALWAYS be the black sheep of the bunch due to how little newcomers there are. Let's give an example shall we:

Let's say you were task to pick pick a couple dozen of apples from a tree. With that task most people will take a quick look at the apple they're picking to makes sure it looks good. Now not ever apple is going to be the best when you're going for quantity, that's to be expected. Now let's say you were task to pick only five apples. You make sure that those five apples are the best apples you can get from that tree. With the lack of quantity you need to make up for in quality. So when you pick four really good looking apples and one rotten apple people are going to ask why'd you pick that when there's a bunch of good looking apples hanging on that tree.

Sure cutting all these Assist Trophies aren't going to magically make them playable, but I rather them not be in instead of Sakurai telling me that all these characters are all part of the loser gain while Piranha Plant is eating lunch at the cool kids table.

Also this comment:
you just want to reduce Smash down to a super boring character select screen focused affair with stages and little else.
Ummm... do even know what Smash Bros is? Because that is the main draw of Smash Bros, playing the game. Pick your character and stage and play. What, do you spend most of your Smash Bros Ultimate time looking at the PNG Spirits you collected? Customizing your Mii Fighters? Or going on training mode just to summon Assist Trophy to see them in action? If you ask me when people boot up Smash Bros they go straight to playing but going to the character select screen. Heck, there was nothing of worth in Smash 4 besides the character and stage select. If you saying that I want to reduce this game to selecting characters and stages is basically saying that I want Smash Bros to be Smash Bros. Do you know that the appeal of Smash Bros is to play the game?

The problem is that Piranha Plant is just a green apple to your preferred red apples. It's just not your preference, but other people like them. This is the fundamental flaw with so many people's attacks on Piranha Plant. It's just not your preference, and that's fine, but you have to admit it wasn't made for you.

And I know well that the appeal of Smash Bros. is playing the game, hence why I play with all kinds of items and assist trophies on and have a blast because I'm enough of an adult to realize that it's about having fun with all kinds of crazy crossover elements and characters, and not mechanically staring at a character screen looking for literal reasons to get mad at 1/81 of the roster because it wasn't personally for me. I go, hey, there's Waluigi! There's Bomberman! Etc. And I enjoy them for their appearance while I play as Piranha Plant or whoever else.

 

[wynn728]

I swear if Sakurai brought back tripping Smash Ultimate we'll have many people defend it to the death and say that it makes the fighting more interesting.

 

[Deleted member]

I haven’t bought the plant because it doesn’t appeal to me, I just don’t care about it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I swear if Sakurai brought back tripping Smash Ultimate we'll have many people defend it to the death and say that it makes the fighting more interesting.

Tripping is an intrusive game mechanic that you have literally no control over and can't opt out of if you don't want it. Plant is 1/81 characters (currently) that you don't have to ever pick, and if it offends you that much you can literally just not buy him and never see him on your character select screen. This is apples to almonds here in terms of the difference and false equivalency.