Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[wynn728]

Just because a character gets in before a different one doesn't mean that one is more "important" across the board. Bayonetta is not more important than Castlevania, Dragon Quest, Persona, etc. just because she got in before them. Nor is Piranha Plant better than any number of possible fighters for getting in before them. Every character is made with a purpose and specifically to fit that purpose, and thus they are "more important in the moment" but not "more important (full stop)." Different characters fill different niches and always will, and not all characters will fit nicely into the same niche as another. Sakurai has stated that he has made characters with a certain ideology in mind before (Retro, Pokemon, etc.) and he will likely continue to do this as he makes Smash. You're the one who seems incapable of understanding one thing getting in does not mean that it's inherently worse or better, it just fits the intention better.

And no, you can't actually prove where those resources would have went if Piranha Plant wasn't made. Sakurai could have just as easily not decided on another fighter and developed other stuff for the game. You're inherently using a false premise to continue you're complaining. It's an unfounded assumption that If A does not happen, then B would have, when options C - Z are all perfectly valid possibilities too.

I'm sorry you built up some idea of "ULTIMATE" in your head and that not everything went according to your internal plan. That's on you for creating your own expectations and own ultimatums for character inclusions. You can criticize the decisions all you want, but you have to take ownership of your own expectations.

You're right, when they started showing off Ridley, Simon, K Rool and called it Smash Bros Ultimate I should have thought that would be the end of the ballot characters and a generic enemy that nobody ask for at all getting in instead. I was an idiot to think that more fan favorites were going to get in.

You can go on and say that Piranha Plant inclusion doesn't mean these other characters are less important by list those examples, but there's a big difference. All of those examples are ACTUAL CHARACTERS, Piranha Plant isn't a character. It's a generic enemy. It had no role of importance, it acts more of an obstacle rather a character. It's super different when an actual character gets in and when a generic enemy gets in.

We ain't getting another Smash Bros game like this. This is it, and as of now Piranha Plant is the last Nintendo character to be added. You can argue that these characters didn't get in because they were important enough at this moment, but if they weren't important in Brawl, Smash 4, or even Ultimate then that shows they're never important. They're no way in Hell they're going to be important in 7 to 8 years from now when the next Smash Bros games come out. We had three games to tell us how unimportant they, and Piranha Plant is just to hit the message home. Sakurai rather have been super wacky than putting effort into think of a moveset for any of these characters.

 

[Schnee117]

Mega Man 10 was out in 2010, which was 2 years before Smash 4 started development and CastleVania had the same **** with Lords of Shadow 2 being 2 years before Ultimate's development 2 years doesn't mean dead

Castlevania's Netflix adaptation was also known to actually be happening in 2015 too.

 

[SKX31]

Huh.

This is a really rare (heh) sight.



(Edit, thanks BZocky ! I have literally no idea why the newly opened mall in Shanghai would include this pic from Australia. Still, the booth turned out to be true, and its selling both official and imported Switch titles.)

Imported titles are also listed for sale there now too, but at a marketly higher price than what can be found on Chinese online stores.

Twitter thread by the Chinese Nintendo account here.
Weibo (Chinese Twitter) post here. Full image at this link.

*The games that are part of the Chinese launch: While NSMBU is the only official game that's fully released, the latter two are preorder-able at the moment and will likely get their official releases soon. The target date for those two games is - at the latest - the Chinese New Year at January 25th.

Other games in the approval pipeline include BOTW, Crafted World and Star Allies. Star Allies was recently submitted to the Chinese authorities, while Crafted World got through the first step (copyright license) rather recently too. BOTW's hit something of a snag but still looks to be released within the next couple months. Other officially announced first party games include Tennis Aces, Super Mario Party and Lets Go. Those are the 10 "First Wave" first party games (counting Pikachu / Eevee as separate games).

As far as Smash is concerned, I'm agreeing with a late 2020 / early 2021 release there because they probably want to get all the "First Wave" games through before commiting to Smash. They might release while Post-Pass is still going because other third party / indie games (counting Tencent as third party here) could easily - speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt - come with purchaseable DLC.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Tfw Baten Kaitos has a music track in Smash but no Spirits... you’d think they’d at least include Spirits. Same for Culdcept, music track, no Spirits

It does, though! Well, Origins, not OG Baten Kaitos. Sagi and Milly are in the Spirit Board. And If I'm not mistaken, Culdcept has two or three Spirits too.

EDIT: Culdcept has three Spirits indeed - Culdra, Goligan and Allen.

 

[wynn728]

bowser jr was added before hero meaning sakurai thinks bowser jr is more important than the entirety of the dragon quest series

Does Nintendo own Dragon Quest? No.
Third Parties are bloody different. Sakurai is working with Nintendo with Smash Bros, he got the right to use any Nintendo character he sees fit. So when you decide that this generic Nintendo enemy should get in while all these other fan requested Nintendo characters should be sidelined and put in as Assist Trophies is an indicator of not being important.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Mega Man in Smash.

I find it really weird that Megaman 11 didn’t get music in Smash.

 

[osby]

You're right, when they started showing off Ridley, Simon, K Rool and called it Smash Bros Ultimate I should have thought that would be the end of the ballot characters and a generic enemy that nobody ask for at all getting in instead. I was an idiot to think that more fan favorites were going to get in.

You can go on and say that Piranha Plant inclusion doesn't mean these other characters are less important by list those examples, but there's a big difference. All of those examples are ACTUAL CHARACTERS, Piranha Plant isn't a character. It's a generic enemy. It had no role of importance, it acts more of an obstacle rather a character. It's super different when an actual character gets in and when a generic enemy gets in.

We ain't getting another Smash Bros game like this. This is it, and as of now Piranha Plant is the last Nintendo character to be added. You can argue that these characters didn't get in because they were important enough at this moment, but if they weren't important in Brawl, Smash 4, or even Ultimate then that shows they're never important. They're no way in Hell they're going to be important in 7 to 8 years from now when the next Smash Bros games come out. We had three games to tell us how unimportant they, and Piranha Plant is just to hit the message home. Sakurai rather have been super wacky than putting effort into think of a moveset for any of these characters.

I guess we're never getting Ridley because Sakurai had four Smash games to add him and he made Duct Hunt playable instead.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

Is it Nightmare's time to shine on? (or maybe it's Lloyd Idk, I just love Soul edge's theme and will take any opportunity to post it.)

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Huh.

This is a really rare (heh) sight.

View attachment 254592

Apparently this is at the newly-constructed and opened Nintendo store at Metro City Mall, Shanghai. Turns out that booth was real after all. While most of the focus lie on NSMBU, MK8DX and Odyssey*; it's kind of crazy to see Majora's Mask, B-K, the Wii and Nintendo Power all get some room here.

Imported titles are also listed for sale there now too, but at a marketly higher price than what can be found on Chinese online stores.

Twitter thread by the Chinese Nintendo account here.
Weibo (Chinese Twitter) post here. Full image at this link.

*The games that are part of the Chinese launch: While NSMBU is the only official game that's fully released, the latter two are preorder-able at the moment and will likely get their official releases soon. The target date for those two games is - at the latest - the Chinese New Year at January 25th.

Other games in the approval pipeline include BOTW, Crafted World and Star Allies. Star Allies was recently submitted to the Chinese authorities, while Crafted World got through the first step (copyright license) rather recently too. BOTW's hit something of a snag but still looks to be released within the next couple months. Other officially announced first party games include Tennis Aces, Super Mario Party and Lets Go. Those are the 10 "First Wave" first party games (counting Pikachu / Eevee as separate games).

As far as Smash is concerned, I'm agreeing with a late 2020 / early 2021 release there because they probably want to get all the "First Wave" games through before commiting to Smash. They might release while Post-Pass is still going because other third party / indie games (counting Tencent as third party here) could easily - speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt - come with purchaseable DLC.

Looking at this feels like someone travelled through time to bring the Switch into the 90's.

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

Is it Nightmare's time to shine on? (or maybe it's Lloyd Idk, I just love Soul edge's theme and will take any opportunity to post it.)

So then "thank you" theory is correct?

 

[Deleted member]

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

Is it Nightmare's time to shine on? (or maybe it's Lloyd Idk, I just love Soul edge's theme and will take any opportunity to post it.)

Nightmare, Agumon, Heihachi, Lloyd or the Prince from Takamari.

 

[Flyboy]

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

Is it Nightmare's time to shine on? (or maybe it's Lloyd Idk, I just love Soul edge's theme and will take any opportunity to post it.)

Namco has tons of awesome reps, including Velvet Crowe, Lloyd Irving, Nightmare, Agumon, a Dark Souls rep, and more, but I have to gun for the evil brutal old ******* of the Mishima Zaibatsu, Heihachi! I want that intense (yet hilarious) villain with his brutal beatdown moves and I want to see some of the biggest fighting game icons clash in a single game! Ryu vs. Terry vs. Heihachi!

 

[Deleted member]

Namco has tons of awesome reps, including Velvet Crowe, Lloyd Irving, Nightmare, Agumon, a Dark Souls rep, and more, but I have to gun for the evil brutal old ******* of the Mishima Zaibatsu, Heihachi! I want that intense (yet hilarious) villain with his brutal beatdown moves and I want to see some of the biggest fighting game icons clash in a single game! Ryu vs. Terry vs. Heihachi!

If his final smash isn’t tying the opponent to a giant rocketship, we riot.

 

[Deleted member]

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

I'd bet on Heihachi, but my preferred choice would be the Prince of all Cosmos just for the music.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Speaking of Mega Man in Smash.

I find it really weird that Megaman 11 didn’t get music in Smash.

Weren't they in development at the same time?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Looking at this feels like someone travelled through time to bring the Switch into the 90's.



So then "thank you" theory is correct?

The what theory now?

 

[Deleted member]

Weren't they in development at the same time?

I honestly don’t know.

If that’s the case, maybe it could be that.

 

[BZocky]

Huh.

This is a really rare (heh) sight.

View attachment 254592

Apparently this is at the newly-constructed and opened Nintendo store at Metro City Mall, Shanghai. Turns out that booth was real after all. While most of the focus lie on NSMBU, MK8DX and Odyssey*; it's kind of crazy to see Majora's Mask, B-K, the Wii and Nintendo Power all get some room here.

Imported titles are also listed for sale there now too, but at a marketly higher price than what can be found on Chinese online stores.

Twitter thread by the Chinese Nintendo account here.
Weibo (Chinese Twitter) post here. Full image at this link.

*The games that are part of the Chinese launch: While NSMBU is the only official game that's fully released, the latter two are preorder-able at the moment and will likely get their official releases soon. The target date for those two games is - at the latest - the Chinese New Year at January 25th.

Other games in the approval pipeline include BOTW, Crafted World and Star Allies. Star Allies was recently submitted to the Chinese authorities, while Crafted World got through the first step (copyright license) rather recently too. BOTW's hit something of a snag but still looks to be released within the next couple months. Other officially announced first party games include Tennis Aces, Super Mario Party and Lets Go. Those are the 10 "First Wave" first party games (counting Pikachu / Eevee as separate games).

As far as Smash is concerned, I'm agreeing with a late 2020 / early 2021 release there because they probably want to get all the "First Wave" games through before commiting to Smash. They might release while Post-Pass is still going because other third party / indie games (counting Tencent as third party here) could easily - speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt - come with purchaseable DLC.

Upon doing some digging, that's a picture of John McClounan's Nintendo collection in Australia. Still a very cool sight though!
Source

 

[dezeray112]

Speaking of Mega Man in Smash.

I find it really weird that Megaman 11 didn’t get music in Smash.

I would've liked to hear Acid Man's Theme in Smash as that was one of my favourite tracks within Megaman 11.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Looking at this feels like someone travelled through time to bring the Switch into the 90's.



So then "thank you" theory is correct?

The fact I can't tell if this is a joke theory or not is proof we need jesus

 

[Deleted member]

The fact I can't tell if this is a joke theory or not is proof we need jesus

The Church can be pretty stingy regarding New Testament characters. I don't think we'll be getting Jesus.

 

[Rikarte]

Speaking of Mega Man in Smash.

I find it really weird that Megaman 11 didn’t get music in Smash.

MM11 came out like 2 months before Smash if I recall correctly. Probably not enough time to get the music.

 

[Flyboy]

The fact I can't tell if this is a joke theory or not is proof we need jesus

What I love is how it's like, blatantly an attempt to affix a catchy name to a normal speculation consideration ("a company who is working with Nintendo/has close ties to Nintendo is likely to show up in some way in Smash") and take credit for it. It's the "Wake Up DP -> Mama Mia" of Smash theories.

Like, c'mon, SNK supporters were calling them a dark horse due to how hard they supported the Switch early on back in December and maybe even before. smh

 

[EricTheGamerman]

R.O.B. played a part in saving the NES and the video game industry as a whole and was also playable in the newest and best selling Mario Kart game at the time of Brawl's release. Wii Fit Trainer played a role in the casual Wii series which was one of Nintendo's best selling series, with Wii Fit being one of the 8th best selling games of all time as well.

ROB was locked behind how much of Mario Kart DS before you ever knew he was even there? Being that one random robot you unlocked from Mario Kart DS if you played enough isn't exactly a compelling reason to make a case for him versus Plant. Have you played any Mario series for 5 minutes? Because if so, you've seen Piranha Plant. It's the second enemy in the original Super Mario Bros. (which also sold better than every Mario Kart mind you) and is iconic in its own right. ROB gets credit for the American gaming industry, sure, but it doesn't change the fact he's a historical curiosity for essentially being the video game trojan horse as opposed to something that actually worked. He's usable in all of two games, and an actually horrible toy to actually work with.

ROB is hands down one of my favorite characters in Smash and I love him in Mario Kart DS, but I'm not going to overstate his importance just to justify his place in Smash versus anyone else. He's important because he achieved what Nintendo needed once and was immediately discarded once that goal was achieved. He's a historical artifact first and foremost that was extremely lucky to get turned into a character because Sakurai saw he could make a fun and compelling moveset with him.

 

[Calamitas]

The what theory now?

Pretty sure that was something that ol' Fatty cooked up, where he theorized that FP5 was a thank to some company or something. Considering who it's originating from, I wouldn't put much stock into it.

 

[KillerCage]

Happy Boxing Day everyone!

So what's happening?

 

[Deleted member]

So what's happening?

FP5 reveal next Tuesday.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The Church can be pretty stingy regarding New Testament characters. I don't think we'll be getting Jesus.

so anyone from the Old Testament is safe?

GUYS WE’RE GETTING MOSES

 

[Gentlepanda]

So with KOS-MOS looking rather unlikely right now and Bandai-Namco as the most voted option in this thread's poll, who would you bet would be the Bandai-Namco character if we do get any character from that company for DLC?

Is it Nightmare's time to shine on? (or maybe it's Lloyd Idk, I just love Soul edge's theme and will take any opportunity to post it.)

honestly leaning a dark souls rep for both the series' huge impact on the decade and sakurai's own love for it

 

[Schnee117]

so anyone from the Old Testament is safe?

GUYS WE’RE GETTING MOSES

Can't wait for his Beyblade Red Sea final smash

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

so anyone from the Old Testament is safe?

GUYS WE’RE GETTING MOSES

Sakurai: "Hmm, I'm getting a lot of ballot votes for Isaac, I didn't know there was such a high demand for an Old Testament character."

 

[GoodGrief741]

From what I can gather we're getting a Bible Games rep and I, for one, hope it's Noah carrying a stack of 5 animals over his head. Noah, man, nobody ****s with him.

 

[Schnee117]

Noah carrying a stack of 5 animals over his head. .

Can't believe he's been reduced to an echo of Norman Reedus

 

[Night Gale]

so anyone from the Old Testament is safe?

GUYS WE’RE GETTING MOSES

No one is getting in before Adam and Eve. Hell, their voice actors are already in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I can gather we're getting a Bible Games rep and I, for one, hope it's Noah carrying a stack of 5 animals over his head. Noah, man, nobody ****s with him.

Please, we're getting a Zoo Race character for sure. Noah will be part of Priscilla the Pig's victory animation.

Everyone get ready for Love the Lord Your God (New Remix)

 

[Deleted member]

We get Adam and Eve but from Metal Gear Solid 3.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So anything new regarding discussion?

 

[Flyboy]

I hope they add some Gnostic spirits...I know their canonicity is disputed but I always really liked them even if they're spinoffs.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I find all this Biblical talk funny considering Jesus Christ is an actual character in Xenosaga which effectively just got shot down

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Because if so, you've seen Piranha Plant. It's the second enemy in the original Super Mario Bros. (which also sold better than every Mario Kart mind you) and is iconic in its own right.

I've seen the Plant but I certainly didn't pay any attention to a background obstacle compared to the dozens of other enemies in the game, one that's not even mobile. What makes the Plant more special than a Goomba, Koopa, Hammer Bro, etc? Absolutely nothing, that's what. You barely even interact with the Plant, you can only kill it with special powerups like a Fire Flower and Starman which are more limited compared to being able to jump on a Goomba or Koopa in any state. Compare that to R.O.B. which was one of only 12 playable characters, the character you can actually PLAY as in Mario Kart DS.

 

[osby]

I hope they add some Gnostic spirits...I know their canonicity is disputed but I always really liked them even if they're spinoffs.

I wouldn't hold my breath, considering they didn't come with Joker.