Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Plank08]

It would've been hilarious if Fighter 5 was leaked by being featured in this image by accident.

Imagine if when ultimate first got revealed someone leaked this

 

[Kokiden]

About that:

The Chinese presentation came and went. Don't worry, no mention of Smash even, so FP5 is still a waiting game. However, there are lots of interesting tidbits:

The Tencent Nintendo Switch (Official Mainland China Ver.) will launch on December 10th 2019 for RMB 2,099 ($300).

It will come bundled with New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe and a 1 year warranty. pic.twitter.com/lcpWNfPUPC

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) December 4, 2019

* Launch at December 10. Price at $300, Games at $42 (in line with regional standards), one year warranty. NSMBU is bundled in with its demo version. Rumors were pretty much true there. Physical carts will start shipping from February. Accessories and amiibo are also completely ready.

* The Chinese Switch supports grey market / international cartridges, though the online services are still a grey area and might be region locked. No comfirmation on that yet. This might be since China's transintioned into a cashless society (paid by mobile apps), and there's no clear solution for foreigners yet. This is still a clear cause for concern amongst the Chinese comments.

* While NSMBU is the only Switch title that will release on launch day, MK8DX and Odyssey are pre-order ready. Other first party titles officially announced include BOTW, Lets Go, Tennis Aces, Crafted World and Star Allies. Games must be approved prior to launch, which is the holdup.

* 16 third parties have confirmed that they're working to create official versions of their games. This includes Tencent's own NeXT Studios (Bladed Fury, Death Coming), SEGA, S-E, Konami, Ubisoft, Bamco, Level 5 etc. Ubi for example are working on an exclusive Rabbids game. Rabbids Invasion became China's most watched childrens' TV show last year, so that might be why.

*At least 20 Chinese indie games, which might be the most interesting tidbit for people here.

So yeah, when Smash comes into the picture it's going to be Post-Pass. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate's revealed / released there during 2020.

I'm out of the loop here, but China doesn't have the Nintendo Switch yet? Nintendo are releasing a special version just for China?

Do I have that right?

 

[Plank08]

How come people are suspecting Phoenix Wright for Smash but not Apollo Justice? He’s just as cool, if not cooler. Phoenix is more well known, but that doesn’t make him better. And if Nintendo was planning on adding an Ace Attorney character to Smash, they’d want to throw us off. Similar to how people expected Erdrick for Smash, but we got Hero instead. They want to give the players characters they’ll want, but obviously don’t want them guessing all of the characters before the first few are even revealed. But if Phoenix is added instead of Apollo (if they were to be added in the first place), I think an alternate outfit would be the least they could do for Apollo.

That’s like adding Luigi before Mario because Luigi mansion 3 just came out

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Nm, forget about my last post. Given the way he phrased his arguments, he was obviously speculating in that video.

 

[SKX31]

I'm out of the loop here, but China doesn't have the Nintendo Switch yet? Nintendo are releasing a special version just for China?

Do I have that right?

Yes on both questions. The reasons why are really harsh laws. As such, Nintendo is partnering with Tencent (infamous megacorp) to release the Switch in China on Dec 10.

While the Chinese Switch has some special quirks (like connection to WeChat Pay, Chinese PayPal that Tencent owns and the primary way to even pay for stuff nowadays over there) it's far from divorced from the standard international version. One can play JP / NA cartridges on the Chinese Switch for example. Online content is the unresolved question here since it's handled through Tencent's servers there. That's something that worries many Chinese commenters.

 

[Calamitas]

Really trying to avoid spoilers for FP5, and I happened to stumble upon Gamexplains video about Assist Trophies/Spirits in my recommended.

In that video, Jon was just speculating right? Ngl, any first party character to end the pass would be pretty anti climatic for me.

Also, imo, his arguments on why Rex would be likely for FP5 were very poor. Its one thing to have a Mii costume in the base game, its another to have your costume be sold alongside the purchase of the pass.

(Again, I’m REALLY trying to avoid leaks and rumors, so any clarification on this video would be nice.)

As of right now, we don't really have any idea who FP5 could be. The only thing we do have is a whole bunch deconfirmation on which characters or even companies are not it, and a first-party character has not been deconfirmed by any credible leaker. (Unless that changed over the course of the last night while I was asleep.)
And honestly, I'd vastly prefer a first-party character over any of the third-party options.

 

[RandomAce]

So, is there any real reason why the Chinese Switch is important for discussion?

I suppose it may be an interesting topic, but I’m not sure why some people are making a big deal out of it.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

So, is there any real reason why the Chinese Switch is important for discussion?

I suppose it may be an interesting topic, but I’m not sure why some people are making a big deal out of it.

Mostly because of timing reasons. The notion that the Chinese Switch's seems to coincide with an anticipated FP5 reveal. It's the exact same reason why people feel that TGA's is important for discussion. Nothing concrete, just purely speculative.

 

[osby]

Kinda out of blue, but I don't get why so many people put at least one bonus character to their post-FP predictions.

Mewtwo was a veteran and we have supporting evidence that Piranha Plant was originally planned for the base game. I don't see Sakurai and his team working on a fully new fighter in the middle of DLC development just to give it for free.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Kinda out of blue, but I don't get why so many people put at least one bonus character to their post-FP predictions.

Mewtwo was a veteran and we have supporting evidence that Piranha Plant was originally planned for the base game. I don't see Sakurai and his team working on a fully new fighter in the middle of DLC development just to give it for free.

It's an excuse to include Geno or a first party

 

[Ben Holt]

Hey guys. Link just got added to Super Mario Maker 2.
Wonder if he'll also make it to Smash as FP5.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys. Link just got added to Super Mario Maker 2.
Wonder if he'll also make it to Smash as FP5.

LoL we already have 3 Links in the game XD

U serious?

 

[BlackInk]

I know this is fake, but what do you guys think about this Marina Liteyears picture leak?

That’s one bad model

 

[SKX31]

So, is there any real reason why the Chinese Switch is important for discussion?

I suppose it may be an interesting topic, but I’m not sure why some people are making a big deal out of it.

NobleClantasm covered it pretty well. I'm covering it partly because Furukawa (Nintendo's President) has said in the past that he wants to expand Nintendo beyond the usual regions (which could have implications for Smash down the line since Furukawa's also Ultimate's executive producer), partly since it is / was a wildcard. And partly since Tencent wants to gain more from the partnership.

The Switch is likely to have a relatively small run there (that is why Tencent promised Nintendo a few million in China) but I don't think we should count out the possibility of it becoming a success. Local play might be really welcome in an environment where face verification is everywhere and minors playtime is heavily restricted for example (Edit: Two or more kids could - depending on how the Switch works with peoples accounts - perhaps get around China's daily time limit of 90 minutes per kid by switching accounts they play on). The Switch is also the only hybrid console as such.

 

[BlackInk]

Does anyone have data like this? http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...st_recommended_digital_switch_game_this_month
I’m trying to find a trail to dlc #5.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Fighter's Pass 2:
Now featuring Doll Link, Flat Link, Dopple Link, Elegy of Emptiness Link, and Frustrated Link.

So, is there any real reason why the Chinese Switch is important for discussion?

I suppose it may be an interesting topic, but I’m not sure why some people are making a big deal out of it.

Partially the idea that something may have been revealed in conjunction with its release, and partially the possibility that a character relevant to China could get priority in the DLC.

The former doesn't look to have amounted to anything, and the latter seems doubtful for now, IMO.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Fighter's Pass 2:
Now featuring Doll Link, Flat Link, Dopple Link, Elegy of Emptiness Link, and Frustrated Link....

Well excuuuse me, you forgot the echo-fighters CD-I Link and Link from the beloved Cartoon series. A well deserved bonus for loyal fans.

 

[DevaAshera]

How come people are suspecting Phoenix Wright for Smash but not Apollo Justice? He’s just as cool, if not cooler. Phoenix is more well known, but that doesn’t make him better. And if Nintendo was planning on adding an Ace Attorney character to Smash, they’d want to throw us off. Similar to how people expected Erdrick for Smash, but we got Hero instead. They want to give the players characters they’ll want, but obviously don’t want them guessing all of the characters before the first few are even revealed. But if Phoenix is added instead of Apollo (if they were to be added in the first place), I think an alternate outfit would be the least they could do for Apollo.

Sakurai has never added a secondary character before the main character of the series. Phoenix Wright is the main character and face of the Ace Attorney series, outside of the one set in the past (which is his ancestor), Phoenix Wright has either been the star, an important character, or a cameo in every Ace Attorney related thing released while Apollo Justice was the main character of a single game that bombed and almost killed the series, especially in the West. There's a reason they returned Phoenix Wright to the headlining role with Apollo and Athena as co-protagonists.

As for your comparison to Erdrick & Hero, there a lot to take in there. Sakurai could have asked for Erdrick but Square-Enix wanted to advertise the newest entry, especially with its Switch version releasing soon after, so they had him make Eleven the default. There are possible hints to this, such as how Hero uses a Shield, which is something that Eleven doesn't do, but Erdrick does..beyond that, Erdrick was still made one of the alternate skins. Replacing Phoenix Wright as the default with Apollo, a character already shown to be less popular, even with Phoenix as an alt, just wouldn't go down very well with Ace Attorney fans (though the other way around could work). Another thing that hurts your comparison is that Eleven was the most recent protagonist for Dragon Quest, Apollo Justice was the main character of only a single game for the Nintendo DS and main character status was returned to Phoenix Wright for the last two entries on the Nintendo 3DS and will likely continue onto the next entry they decide to make due to his overwhelming popularity.
Having Apollo Justice instead of Phoenix Wright would be like having Roxas instead of Sora (though a big difference here is that Roxas is still a very popular character amongst the fanbase while Apollo isn't really), it just wouldn't make sense nor would it please fans. Sakurai may like to surprise fans, but usually not to the detriment of their enjoyment.

My guess is that if they have an Ace Attorney character, it'll be Phoenix Wright, with his default look based on his AA 1-3 look and a possible alt based on his AA 5/6 look..possibly with his Pink Sweater look from 3 and his Bum look from Apollo Justice as third and fourth alts if they went there.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Well excuuuse me, you forgot the echo-fighters CD-I Link and Link from the beloved Cartoon series. A well deserved bonus for loyal fans.

Cartoon Link will have the one bomb tech that the others can't do.

 

[Ben Holt]

Cartoon Link will have the one bomb tech that the others can't do.

View attachment 249768

Breath of the Wild 2 better have this. Extreme Shield Surfing.

 

[Calamitas]

Cartoon Link will have the one bomb tech that the others can't do.

View attachment 249768

Breath of the Wild Link should be able to do something similar, though.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nothing missed last night I take it?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

A brand new elaborate CG trailer, like Hero.
That brings up a fun game: What do you envision your favorite character's reveal trailer as the fifth fighter looking like.

Well said, TGA or post Pass I'd be hype either way to have Ammy in Smash.

It starts out with Samus' ship flying towards a deserted looking space station, She docks into the hangar and goes up the elevator.

She finds numerous corpses of these Male Troopers (Which connects the intros of Super Metroid and TimeSplitters 2 story mode together)

Samus knows that something terrible happened here so she readies her arm blaster and reaches the bridge

Spoiler: Picture

There it is! She finds this portal in working condition. With no one around, she checks the controls on the right and sees these glowing time crystals hovering and spinning about like this.

Spoiler: Picture

As Samus slowly reaches for one, she hears a banging noise from the door she entered and these aliens known as Reaper Splitters break through the door in droves. Samus puts up a good fight with her access to her charge beam, missiles and her combat skills but the combination of the TimeSplitters' speedy teleportation and homing lightning bolts as well as the sheer amount of them becomes too much for Samus to handle and they break through her armour.

Beaten and broken, the Reaper Splitters crowd her as they attempt to kill her but someone comes through the portal, blowing them away with a Futuristic Shotgun that charges in gravity and unleashes it to blow the TimeSplitters away from left to right. This person also throws a time disrupting grenade that shows all of the reaper splitters flying in the air in slow motion from the impact of the grenades with camera panning around.

The effects of the grenades wear off and their supposed corpses all fall to the bottom of the bridge. The camera switches to this persons' boots as it pans up to reveal...

Spoiler: Picture

"Yeah! It's Time to Split"

CORTEZ
Arrives on time (Sorry that's the best I've got)

The splash screen fades out back to the space station and you can see Samus face-palming and shaking her head from what he said

[Gameplay trailer here]

Then it shows Samus about to board her ship but Sgt. Cortez sprints after her where she stops to look at him. Cortez out of breath asks "Could you give me a ride back?"

Here's a talking point, of the characters in the pass so far by genre we have

Dungeon Crawling/Life Sim RPG- Persona
Classic JRPG- Dragon Quest
3D Platformer- Banjo-Kazooie
2D Fighting Game- Fatal Fury/KOF
So of the potential last characters, what genre do you think could fill a gap?

Cooking Mama- covers the casual market and will be Smash's second mini-game collection character after WarioWare Wario
Three Houses Rep- Kinda stepping on Persona's LifeSim shoes but is ultimatly a strategy RPG
Phoenix Wright- Visual Novels would finally get their spotlight
Monster Hunter- A type of RPG/action hybrid.

Any more ideas?

TimeSplitters - Time Travelling First Person Shooter created by the same people working on Goldeneye and Perfect Dark

 

[Deleted member]

Nothing much happened today, eh?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Nothing much happened today, eh?

Nope but there's always the chance for the next, I remember me and some folks discussing how quiet it had been, then all the deconfirmations and the RE spirit event happened.

 

[snowgolem]

Sakurai has never added a secondary character before the main character of the series. Phoenix Wright is the main character and face of the Ace Attorney series, outside of the one set in the past (which is his ancestor), Phoenix Wright has either been the star, an important character, or a cameo in every Ace Attorney related thing released while Apollo Justice was the main character of a single game that bombed and almost killed the series, especially in the West. There's a reason they returned Phoenix Wright to the headlining role with Apollo and Athena as co-protagonists.

As for your comparison to Erdrick & Hero, there a lot to take in there. Sakurai could have asked for Erdrick but Square-Enix wanted to advertise the newest entry, especially with its Switch version releasing soon after, so they had him make Eleven the default. There are possible hints to this, such as how Hero uses a Shield, which is something that Eleven doesn't do, but Erdrick does..beyond that, Erdrick was still made one of the alternate skins. Replacing Phoenix Wright as the default with Apollo, a character already shown to be less popular, even with Phoenix as an alt, just wouldn't go down very well with Ace Attorney fans (though the other way around could work). Another thing that hurts your comparison is that Eleven was the most recent protagonist for Dragon Quest, Apollo Justice was the main character of only a single game for the Nintendo DS and main character status was returned to Phoenix Wright for the last two entries on the Nintendo 3DS and will likely continue onto the next entry they decide to make due to his overwhelming popularity.
Having Apollo Justice instead of Phoenix Wright would be like having Roxas instead of Sora (though a big difference here is that Roxas is still a very popular character amongst the fanbase while Apollo isn't really), it just wouldn't make sense nor would it please fans. Sakurai may like to surprise fans, but usually not to the detriment of their enjoyment.

My guess is that if they have an Ace Attorney character, it'll be Phoenix Wright, with his default look based on his AA 1-3 look and a possible alt based on his AA 5/6 look..possibly with his Pink Sweater look from 3 and his Bum look from Apollo Justice as third and fourth alts if they went there.

Yeah, you’re right. My opinion is probably biased since it was the first Ace Attorney game I played. And even though I think those are great ideas, if he was playable he would most likely just have palette swaps referencing some other characters from the franchise due to the fact that it’s much easier than making an alternate outfit.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Breath of the Wild Link should be able to do something similar, though.

Cartoon Link is no joke. He merged 2 speed-running techniques into 1 decades before they were even implemented.

 

[snowgolem]

I love Apollo, I think he deserved to take over the reins as the protagonist post-AJ, but Capcom just... doesn't love him. After they booted Takumi out, the main series' new writers made Polly share protagonist duty with Phoenix and a third lawyer, and then they wrapped up his arc in a half-assed way just so they could leave him in a foreign country where he can't interfere with Phoenix Time (tm). Meanwhile Phoenix gets to star in crossovers and spinoffs.

The best Apollo fans can hope for is an echo fighter, I think. Though, frankly even a dumb lil' mii costume would make me feel kind of happy for him.

Yeah, you’re right. But I feel like an alternate outfit for Phoenix would be the least they could do for him. You can’t just make a character to replace another and then replace the new one with the old one again. I’d probably be a little frustrated if Phoenix got in and Apollo was just a mii outfit, but I’ll probably calm down within a couple seconds.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

You can’t just make a character to replace another and then replace the new one with the old one again.

DC and Marvel: Get a load of this guy...

 

[snowgolem]

B-but... Erdrick is in the game...

Erdrick is in the game as an alternate outfit. And if you pick that outfit, it still says Hero. Meaning Erdrick technically is less of a character than Alph and the Koopalings are. He pretty much has the status of a mii fighter. It looks like the character, but he’s not actually in the game.

 

[osby]

Erdrick is in the game as an alternate outfit. And if you pick that outfit, it still says Hero. Meaning Erdrick technically is less of a character than Alph and the Koopalings are. He pretty much has the status of a mii fighter. It looks like the character, but he’s not actually in the game.

I mean, no Dragon Quest protag has a set name. Calling them Hero doesn't contradict anything. Erdrick is still the same character whether he's called Arusu, Yusha or Hero.

Saying he's not in the game just because how he's named doesn't make sense.

 

[Deleted member]

That brings up a fun game: What do you envision your favorite character's reveal trailer as the fifth fighter looking like

I thought of this one all day, and while I was busy reviewing for finals, I was beginning to think of a hypothetical Morrigan trailer. So...here it goes. Feel free to criticize but don't be too harsh.

********

The scene begins in Dracula's Castle. Continuing from where we left off with Luigi and the Belmonts, they begin to traverse the castle. Then, out of nowehere, a figure then attacks Simon from behind, akin to Ridley's trailer complete with the red background and the silhouette. This is followed by Richter getting knocked out by a similar figure, only this time, the figure kisses Richter before knocking him out. The same silhouette and background appears.

Luigi, terrified, slowly turns around, shivering in fear. Then, he is punched both sides by the two figures. When Luigi regains his sense, he sees the image of a red and pink figure in front of him, before the figure disappears, passing through him. He turns around to see his attacker, extending her wings and locking her eyes towards Luigi. And then...

Morrigan allures the competition (that was the best one I found sorry)

Followed by...gameplay footage. Then it transitions back to the scene. Luigi is now begging for his life, when all of a sudden...Captain Falcon appears! Both him and Morrigan then focus on each other and prepare for battle, during which, her unique mechanics may be shown.

At the end of it all, Falcon, defeated, is then approached by the succubus. She gives one last look, before she kisses Falcon on the cheek, then takes him with her as she flies away.

Luigi, now recovering, assists the Belmonts, and then the trailer ends.

********

 

[snowgolem]

I mean, no Dragon Quest protag has a set name. Calling them Hero doesn't contradict anything. Erdrick is still the same character whether he's called Arusu, Yusha or Hero.

Saying he's not in the game just because how he's named doesn't make sense.

Oh. Sorry, I’ve never played the Dragon Quest games, I thought the majority of the protagonists had set names.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai has never added a secondary character before the main character of the series. Phoenix Wright is the main character and face of the Ace Attorney series, outside of the one set in the past (which is his ancestor), Phoenix Wright has either been the star, an important character, or a cameo in every Ace Attorney related thing released while Apollo Justice was the main character of a single game that bombed and almost killed the series, especially in the West. There's a reason they returned Phoenix Wright to the headlining role with Apollo and Athena as co-protagonists.

As for your comparison to Erdrick & Hero, there a lot to take in there. Sakurai could have asked for Erdrick but Square-Enix wanted to advertise the newest entry, especially with its Switch version releasing soon after, so they had him make Eleven the default. There are possible hints to this, such as how Hero uses a Shield, which is something that Eleven doesn't do, but Erdrick does..beyond that, Erdrick was still made one of the alternate skins. Replacing Phoenix Wright as the default with Apollo, a character already shown to be less popular, even with Phoenix as an alt, just wouldn't go down very well with Ace Attorney fans (though the other way around could work). Another thing that hurts your comparison is that Eleven was the most recent protagonist for Dragon Quest, Apollo Justice was the main character of only a single game for the Nintendo DS and main character status was returned to Phoenix Wright for the last two entries on the Nintendo 3DS and will likely continue onto the next entry they decide to make due to his overwhelming popularity.
Having Apollo Justice instead of Phoenix Wright would be like having Roxas instead of Sora (though a big difference here is that Roxas is still a very popular character amongst the fanbase while Apollo isn't really), it just wouldn't make sense nor would it please fans. Sakurai may like to surprise fans, but usually not to the detriment of their enjoyment.

My guess is that if they have an Ace Attorney character, it'll be Phoenix Wright, with his default look based on his AA 1-3 look and a possible alt based on his AA 5/6 look..possibly with his Pink Sweater look from 3 and his Bum look from Apollo Justice as third and fourth alts if they went there.

Eleven absolutely uses shields, what are you talking about? Eleven uses the Sword of Light, a regular sword he gets in the story and regular swords allow you to equip shields alongside them as both are one-handed.

 

[P.Kat]

The fact that it took them this long must be that the character is a really complex one to be precise.

A complex character you say, one so complex that they probably have a very unique design compare to other characters, a beautiful stage that would take a lot of work to make, with remixed music.

Maybe a gauge system of some kind for their unique quirk, multiple movesets to the point that they have some sort of stance change.

All of that while also using a unique way of attacking, that's very rarely used, but is still an asset already in the game which makes it easy to insert in Smash, like oh let's say Bowser Jr's final smash with the paintbrush, just to (randomly) name one outta my head.

Hmm I wonder who could fit that bill...

Spoiler

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just...8 more days to go...

I can make it...

 

[Arcadenik]

Kirby inhaling Hero will give him Erdrick’s headband. So maybe Erdrick was originally the default Hero before Square Enix wanted Eleven to be the default Hero to promote Dragon Quest XI S.

 

[BlackInk]

Kirby inhaling Hero will give him Erdrick’s headband. So maybe Erdrick was originally the default Hero before Square Enix wanted Eleven to be the default Hero to promote Dragon Quest XI S.

Sakurai: I want to use the good old classic Eldrick
Square: Dammit, Sakurai! You’re supposed to help me grow my money trees!

 

[Deleted member]

B-but... Erdrick is in the game...

banjos are a brave instrument, shish

 

[PSIGuy]

Sakurai praised Death Stranding.

I... definitely disagree, but expect to see a lot of praise for it at The Game Awards courtesy of the Dorito Pope. Also, Norman Reedus confirmed for Smash.