Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Wigglerman]

Idk how ANYONE could call Zelda "basic" and "samey" when games like Link to the Past, Ocarina, and BOTW revolutionize the idea of action adventure games.

The clown school you went to mustve been Ivy League because I'm laughing at you rn

They may have revolutionized gaming at their respective eras but they sure aren't now. To be honest, I've never understood the allure of the N64 era Zeldas. They're ok but they have aged extremely poorly. They earn respect for pushing the bar but in hind sight, they are ugly, empty and not very engaging.

And yeah, they're pretty basic. They aren't complex games. Puzzles have been painfully easy (if you want to call them puzzles), bosses are repetitive, exploring isn't rewarding, story is very generic and barely alters (This is more due to Zelda being shoe horned into this repeating prophecy nonsense that has really prevented the main line series from growing. This is also why I said select titles are better. The spin offs tend to be far better story wise than the main series. Oracle/Ages happen to be my favorite in the entire Zelda series). BOTW helped break that trend a bit though the series is still lagging compared to more recent years in the very same genre they once helped push.

Zelda isn't a bad series. It's just 'babies first rpg adventure' game. Which isn't being mean spirited. There are far better games in the same field that continue to innovate while Zelda stagnated for a long, long time but survived purely on brand.

P PhantomShab

yes, it is. RPG = Role Playing Game. You're playing the role of Link in a fantasy world. It's also an adventure game. RPG is a general term. There's sub genres to RPG such as turn based, tactical, and so on. Zelda is an Adventure RPG.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Imagine expecting to be taken seriously after referring to Zelda as an RPG.

 

[NintenZ]

Post this opinion on twitter and Golden Deer stans will jump you in droves, I promise you that.

Thanks for giving me the idea!

*Laughs in Edelgard’s Route intensifies*

 

[N3ON]

ARMS performed as well as series that aren't Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, AC, or Splatoon usually hope to do.

If a Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, FE, or especially the likes Pikmin, F-Zero, Xenoblade, Kid Icarus, etc. game performed as well as ARMS, it'd be considered a huge success. It's going to get another game at some point, and then inclusion seems all-but assured.

I mean, it would've happened already if the timing had only been a little different. So asking why there isn't ARMS representation on the roster is redundant. Were Ultimate coming out in 2020 instead of 2018, Spring-Man would be playable. Sakurai doesn't include series that haven't even released at the time of roster creation, which is where ARMS was at that point in Ultimate's gestation.

Because, compared to other rpg series out there, TLOZ is pretty...basic. I like the series well enough but it's far from the most ground breaking or awe inspiring. Game play is generally pretty basic too. Breath of the Wild was the biggest breakthrough in the series IMO but even then it's treading samey territory. Story is pretty samey. It's passable, it's fun but it's average if we want to be honest with ourselves. The Witcher III it isn't.

To say Zelda hasn't ever been ground-breaking from someone whose profile lists them as 30 is quite the strange take. That's something I'd expect to hear from a person half that age tbh.

 

[PhantomShab]

Loves BotW but hates real Zelda games. God I think I'm going to be sick.

 

[Wigglerman]

Imagine expecting to be taken seriously after referring to Zelda as an RPG.

RPG = Role Playing Game. There are many sub genres. Action, tactical, turn based, so on. Zelda is an 'action adventure RPG'. You're playing the role of a character (Link) on an adventure to save the world and blah blah. It is an RPG.

 

[Ben Holt]

Too many people put all their eggs on Spring Man being the only ARMS rep to get in first because he's "the face of ARMS."
Honestly, any ARMS fighter that could've gotten in first would've become "the face of ARMS," but fan rules dictated that it must be Spring Man, and when he got revealed as a Assist Trophy, the entire franchise's chances was dismissed.
Why default to Spring Man when you could add someone that's also got popularity under their belt? Someone like her....

Because the de facto mascot is always the first playable character.
When we get DVa over Tracer, then you will have an argument.

 

[Wigglerman]

Y'all need to actually read what I'm posting. I love BOTW. I love many Zelda games. I never said I hate anything about Zelda. I said it's a very basic franchise.

 

[GoodGrief741]

RPG = Role Playing Game. There are many sub genres. Action, tactical, turn based, so on. Zelda is an 'action adventure RPG'. You're playing the role of a character (Link) on an adventure to save the world and blah blah. It is an RPG.

Hey guys, in Mario Galaxy you're playing the role of a character (Mario) hence it's an RPG.

You've gone past the point of having terrifyingly awful taste in games and straight into not even knowing what an RPG is.

 

[PhantomShab]

yes, it is. RPG = Role Playing Game. You're playing the role of Link in a fantasy world. It's also an adventure game. RPG is a general term. There's sub genres to RPG such as turn based, tactical, and so on. Zelda is an Adventure RPG.

I guess Pong is an rpg since you play the role of a paddle.

 

[Wigglerman]

ARMS performed as well as series that aren't Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, AC, or Splatoon usually hope to do.

If a Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, FE, or especially the likes Pikmin, F-Zero, Xenoblade, Kid Icarus, etc. game performed as well as ARMS, it'd be considered a huge success. It's going to get another game at some point, and then inclusion seems all-but assured.

I mean, it would've happened already if the timing had only been a little different. So asking why there isn't ARMS representation on the roster is redundant. Were Ultimate coming out in 2020 instead of 2018, Spring-Man would be playable. Sakurai doesn't include series that haven't even released at the time of roster creation, which is where ARMS was at that point in Ultimate's gestation.


To say Zelda hasn't ever been ground-breaking from someone whose profile lists them as 30 is quite the strange take. That's something I'd expect to hear from a person half that age tbh.

I never said Zelda wasn't ever ground breaking. I stated many times it HAS but it isn't consistent, and even when it DOES, the franchise takes a while to make another stride. But the franchise as a whole is not a very deep or even complex game in its own genre. It's very simple. That doesn't make it bad. It just isn't pushing the limits anymore. Other series have been doing that instead.

 

[PhantomShab]

What a disgrace to 30 year old boomers everywhere lol

 

[Wigglerman]

Hey guys, in Mario Galaxy you're playing the role of a character (Mario) hence it's an RPG.

You've gone past the point of having terrifyingly awful taste in games and straight into not even knowing what an RPG is.

You don't like one game I like therefore your entire taste in games is awful? Am I getting that right? You also continue to ignore I haven't said I hate or even dislike Zelda.

I'll drop the topic because it's off topic and also because conversation isn't happening. You're being argumentative and insulting all because I don't hold Zelda as dearly as you do.

 

[Ben Holt]

When I was a kid, to be considered an RPG, you HAD to be turn based like Final Fantasy and Pokémon.
Games like Zelda were called Adventure Games.
Nowadays, the term "RPG" seems to encompass anything that involves your character getting upgraded as the game goes along.

 

[N3ON]

Loves BotW but hates real Zelda games. God I think I'm going to be sick.

Hey let me through this gate, you.

RPG = Role Playing Game. There are many sub genres. Action, tactical, turn based, so on. Zelda is an 'action adventure RPG'. You're playing the role of a character (Link) on an adventure to save the world and blah blah. It is an RPG.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

RPG = Role Playing Game. There are many sub genres. Action, tactical, turn based, so on. Zelda is an 'action adventure RPG'. You're playing the role of a character (Link) on an adventure to save the world and blah blah. It is an RPG.

Zelda is an Action-Adventure game. It has no leveling or stat based gameplay.

If anything, Zelda is comparable more so to something like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, or Grand Theft Auto, instead of Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, or Xenoblade.

 

[PhantomShab]

Hey let me through this gate, you.

Pay the toll first.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Minecraft is my favorite open-world RPG game.

Between building my own house and resource farms, grinding levels, enchanting, potions, getting good gear, and facing the Wither and Ender Dragon...what a game.

 

[Wigglerman]

Zelda is an Action-Adventure game. It has no leveling or stat based gameplay.

If anything, Zelda is comparable more so to something like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, or Grand Theft Auto, instead of Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, or Xenoblade.

Fair enough, I could agree if we want to argue in that way. I've always seen Zelda as an RPG because despite the game play, the progression of the game is very much an RPG set up. Do a quest, get an upgrade/mcguffin. The upgrades you get in the form of gear basically are your 'levels' in this stype of game. But it's whatever, it's not a hill I'll die on. It's just how I've viewed many games of this style (Mostly in a fantasy setting).

 

[Night Gale]

Because the de facto mascot is always the first playable character.
When we get DVa over Tracer, then you will have an argument.

Spring Man shares the de facto mascot title with Ribbon Girl and she might be playable before him if he doesn't get promoted.

 

[PhantomShab]

I hope the Resident Evil 2 remake wins rpg of the year.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If there are games that do Zelda better than Zelda, I want to hear about them.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Adding characters to Smash is more than sales and popularity. It’s about bringing something new, being interesting, timing, capability of design (as in, actually possible it fitting)...

Sakurai has done an excellent job in putting in plenty of content. “Representation”, which Smash fans like to look at as only characters includes stages, music, items, and characters. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 missed out because of timing, but either Spring Man or Rex probably would have had a better shot if they’d been out earlier.

Zelda on the other hand hasn’t gotten a character in years. But while it might be argued it should, it really comes down to if it makes sense to effectively add one-offs or side characters when there are plenty of options of great picks that cover a wider variety of games instead.

Zelda has 6 characters, and 3 of them are deviations of Link. However, it has plenty of stages (almost one for each main console game), plenty of music, plenty of items, Assist Trophies, Spirits...it’s everywhere and it deserves to be everywhere. I hate using “deserves” for stuff like this, but you know what I mean.

Representation is more than just characters.

 

[N3ON]

I never said Zelda wasn't ever ground breaking. I stated many times it HAS but it isn't consistent, and even when it DOES, the franchise takes a while to make another stride. But the franchise as a whole is not a very deep or even complex game in its own genre. It's very simple. That doesn't make it bad. It just isn't pushing the limits anymore. Other series have been doing that instead.

Oh, you're looking for a series that is consistently ground-breaking, not one that derivates off itself once it finds a successful formula, like...

Uh...

Like...
Uhhhh....

Hmm.

 

[Jomosensual]

I liked Apex of the World more than God-Shattering Star. Maybe helps that the battle for the first one was more complicated and exciting for me than the second one. Also the place and the map for Apex of the World are more cooler in my opinion.

In any case both tracks are great.

Which song was the final boss theme for Crimson Flower? That's the one I want.

What I'm seeing here is that so many Nintendo games got robbed.

I say we bring on an all-Nintendo Pass.

Agreed. Id go with

1. Edelgard
2. Cranky Kong
3. Sylux
4. Porky
5. Akira Howard

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Fair enough, I could agree if we want to argue in that way. I've always seen Zelda as an RPG because despite the game play, the progression of the game is very much an RPG set up. Do a quest, get an upgrade/mcguffin. The upgrades you get in the form of gear basically are your 'levels' in this stype of game. But it's whatever, it's not a hill I'll die on. It's just how I've viewed many games of this style (Mostly in a fantasy setting).

Oh no, I get where you're coming from, and it's been especially close for Zelda to be called an RPG, and since it's been a fact that RPG's have become more and more action oriented it's harder to discern Zelda from that group. Especially with Breath of the Wild's stat based gear. However, leveling and stat growth, not like a MetroidVania's equipment growth, has never really been a part of Zelda besides Zelda II, which by all means is the black sheep, that's why most don't consider Zelda an "RPG".

Which in most games, by all accounts, you are "Role-Playing" as a character so, it's really not a well named genre.

 

[N3ON]

Pay the toll first.

I ain't paying no troll toll.

 

[PhantomShab]

Representation is more than just characters.

It's the representation that matters the most though. No one hears about a new Smash game and immediately wants to know what stages are in it.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's the representation that matters the most though. No one hears about a new Smash game and immediately wants to know what stages are in it.

Speak for yourself, as soon as I heard that ****ing Magicant and Fountain of Dreams was in I was lit.

 

[Will]

RPG = Role Playing Game. There are many sub genres. Action, tactical, turn based, so on. Zelda is an 'action adventure RPG'. You're playing the role of a character (Link) on an adventure to save the world and blah blah. It is an RPG.

Games have a mixture of all sorts of genres, but we categorize them by which features and functions they mostly contain. It's definitely more adventure and action than RPG.

 

[TheYungLink]

Hey let me through this gate, you.

Forget about his gate, go through mine *opens "Breath of the Wild is as much a Zelda game as the rest of the series" gate*

 

[Wigglerman]

We gunna continue speculation (What little there is) or continue to gang up on the blasphemer for another couple pages?

 

[Deleted member]

Are we in bruh hours right now?

 

[GKMLTTSB]

What I'm seeing here is that so many Nintendo games got robbed.

I say we bring on an all-Nintendo Pass.

1. Alexandra Roivas
2. Skull Kid
3. Ashley Mizuki Robbins
4. Porky
5. Kevin Keene

2 series expansions, 3 newcomers, and a lot of disappointment for a number of communities. >_>

 

[Wigglerman]

Are we in bruh hours right now?

Yeah, I'm the source of the 'bruh'. I derailed without even meaning to so...bruh

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's the representation that matters the most though. No one hears about a new Smash game and immediately wants to know what stages are in it.

That seems to generalize, and I don’t really agree with that.

Are characters arguably the most important thing? Sure. Are they the only important thing? Absolutely not.

Representation comes in different forms. Characters aren’t the only thing that represents a series, and to say otherwise ignores a massive part of the game.

 

[Idon]

It's the representation that matters the most though. No one hears about a new Smash game and immediately wants to know what stages are in it.

I actually do agree with this.

People like to tote around "Smash representation is more than characters" which granted, is true, but...

Who cares?

No seriously, go to any Smash fan who's got a wanted newcomer.
Do you think Midna fans care that the Bridge of Eldin is a stage? Bandanna Dee fans that care about Dreamland 64? How about Isaac or Shadow fans with assist trophies? Maybe their songs got into smash, maybe they get to appear in the background of a stage or hey, maybe they got even a wonky looking mii costume. Is that "satisfactory" for anyone who's a fan of these characters?
Hell no.

Conversely, look at people that got their characters in with little to nothing else, for example Roy fans. You think those people care that Roy comes standalone with zero spirits, zero related assist trophies, zero stages, zero anything and like... one music track?
Also Hell no.
They get to ACTUALLY ****in' play as a character they like.

Guess what, I'm pretty sure most people would not only take no fluff, they would actively cut 50 stages, 100 music tracks, and 200 spirits, if it meant they got to have their characters playable and only playable.

 

[PhantomShab]

That seems to generalize, and I don’t really agree with that.

Are characters arguably the most important thing? Sure. Are they the only important thing? Absolutely not.

Representation comes in different forms. Characters aren’t the only thing that represents a series, and to say otherwise ignores a massive part of the game.

I agree. But what I'm saying is that playable fighters have and always will be the biggest aspect. The average person is immediately going to think about the roster before anything else when it comes to Smash.

 

[Plank08]

Ok so
-No Geno
-No Doom
-No Scorpion
-No Tracer
-No half life
-Capcoms unlikely
-supposed to be mindblowing
-Meant to be the final pass
Yeah I’m thinking it’s a Sony Rep at this point, people say Namco but everyone seems to forget that Sakurai himself stated that out of all the Namco options the only one he wanted was Pac-Man, he only considered Heihachi but thought he would be too difficult
And even if our first Sony rep is Kratos hopefully we could get another soooooo

sakurai please

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Characters may be the “most important” part of the mascot crossover that is Smash, but the fan base has to release that there’s always going to be characters that aren’t going to be playable.

Not to mention, part of Smash is the additional content. The collection of music is fantastic. The different locations, especially mixed with that music can produce some real fan service.

I mean, I don’t know what else to say aside from...better luck next time? Sucks that someone’s favorites aren’t playable, but that’s going to happen no matter what.

It doesn’t really matter what the fan base views as “representation that matters”, the fact remains that Zelda has some of the most content in Smash compared to other series. If the dev team feels that balances things out, then, for now, we basically have to deal with it.