New way to use Dair?

[Omnath]

Well, recently I've been practicing Lucario a lot. I do mean A LOT.

You see, the other day, I went to a tournament and my main goal was not to dair spam as much. It's odd though, everyone that I went up against I spammed aura sphere, grabs, and shorthop (extremely short hop, like... Barely off the ground) dair. I ended up placing fifth in doubles and did better in singles against people that normally **** me. (Aka a normal Lucario player and I beat a pro Snake).

I know a lot of you say don't spam dair as much, but I think I've come up with a way to use it without any problem at all.

Once I get a video of a match, I will post it on here and show you. It's a pretty decent tactic, at least, I would think so.

 

[KarateF22]

Well... there are two ways to use dair.

1. spam it, it is one of the most versatile moves in the game that does decent damage and can be brought out almost instantly even froms tanding on the ground..... good for racking up damage and stopping rushes.
2. Conserve it for KOs. This move can KO fresh.... but emphasis on fresh. Also, you have to hit the enemy at the right angle or.... it dont work.

 

[Samuelson]

Dair is good for punishing spot dodgers and rollers, if you can predict them that is. It's also a very good defensive tool. It's pretty much good for everything except for attacking shields. If for some reason i see my opponent spot dodge my approach then i Fair>Dair them. It works really well.

 

[Mattsy]

Well... there are two ways to use dair.

1. spam it, it is one of the most versatile moves in the game that does decent damage and can be brought out almost instantly even froms tanding on the ground..... good for racking up damage and stopping rushes.
2. Conserve it for KOs. This move can KO fresh.... but emphasis on fresh. Also, you have to hit the enemy at the right angle or.... it dont work.

I don't spam it, because it's fairly obvious, but I don't save it for KOs... Lucario doesn't need to worry about being fresh so much, because of the aura; there are better KO moves to use--better aerial KO moves, at that.

 

[Omnath]

I don't spam it, because it's fairly obvious, but I don't save it for KOs... Lucario doesn't need to worry about being fresh so much, because of the aura; there are better KO moves to use--better aerial KO moves, at that.

I never really use it as a KO move because it is never fresh for me, haha. Though for KO I use either forward air or up air. (hard time getting bair off)

 

[phi1ny3]

At low percents onstage, I don't keep it fresh, as it does great damage even at low percent, but when I'm getting near to gimping, I keep it fresh since the only moves that will really kill off stage at low percents effectively are AS or dair.

 

[|RK|]

If you spam it to say, avoid oncoming U-smashes, then you could, if they've predicted it and timed well, also do a fast-falling D-air...

 

[ChokE]

Is hard to imagine a lucario not spamming the dair. Recently i mean trying to pick up Lucario and I been using it to punish the rolls like mad.

 

[tedward2000]

So then is this new way of using Dair, is to not spam it?
Pretty Revolutionary if you ask me.
-t2

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

Here's a thought I had while reading this thread...
How effective do you think it would be to spam Dair while falling down (we all know this is useless, but delays the fall time) above an opponent, then fastfalling into Nair or something? I'm sure you could find uses for it even when spammed.

 

[tedward2000]

Well, its possible. But it would be better to not spam Dair and still do the Nair thingy, then to spam it.
-t2

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

But if you WERE to spam it, it would do two things.
A) The opponent would probably assume you will try to lower your Dair slowly until it hits him, so he'll just charge up an Up-Smash, and
B) It would buffer the diminishing returns. If you hit with Nair, you'll probably knock him up a bit, so you can combo him with moves that are more fresh.
(I'm sure you know, but diminishing returns, to m knowledge, are tracked only by the past ten moves.)

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Trying to keep dair fresh as a kill move is a pretty silly idea under any circumstance. It's your most reliable damage racker aside from AS, and even fresh it's nowhere near your most powerful kill move.

 

[Ilucamy]

Moves don't affect stale moves if they don't hit.

I don't get your new way to use dair. Please explain further.

 

[professor mgw]

dair is pretty useful, although dat's not a move that practice should b focus on.

 

[Ref]

All I do is spam the D air mainly because I don't play Lucario...

I also up B out of shield when under pressure... I really don't know what else to do.

 

[phi1ny3]

Usually if you're going to use it as a gimp move, dair is amazing because it suffers relatively little from diminishing returns, and considering that it isn't a "combo move" and more of a "punish/finish" category, it is usually fresh if you attempt to gimp. So I wouldn't worry about spamming for the sake of diminishings, I would worry about your opponent getting wise to it.

for the post above: Lucario's shield grab is pretty decent, as is jab after dropping shield, utilt oos, and sometimes other tilts. upB is not advised much, it has nothing to help keep lucario from getting punished besides speed/maneuverability, so yeah...

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

Seriously? There's plenty of options that are better for escaping punishment from the shield than Extreme Speed... Rolling, even?

 

[Kitamerby]

Here's a thought I had while reading this thread...
How effective do you think it would be to spam Dair while falling down (we all know this is useless, but delays the fall time) above an opponent, then fastfalling into Nair or something? I'm sure you could find uses for it even when spammed.

Don't spam it. Only use it once or twice if you know it'll force a whiff. Then you could Nair. This actually is a pretty common use for it against characters that generally outrange our Dair with their own Uair/Utilt/Usmash, etc.

for the post above: Lucario's shield grab is pretty decent, as is jab after dropping shield, utilt oos, and sometimes other tilts. upB is not advised much, it has nothing to help keep lucario from getting punished besides speed/maneuverability, so yeah...

Luc's shieldgrab is NOT decent. It's pretty suck. We get like no range, so we can only punish horribly misspaced aerials that they accidentally land with or something. Our only saving grace for shieldgrabbing is our amazing traction. It's better than nothing, I guess, but it is definitely on the worse end for shieldgrabs.

I mean seriously, couldn't he lean just a LITTLE bit farther like Marth does and snatch them from 5 yards away like (Melee) Marth?


Oh yeah, and for the main topic, if you watch some of Azen's recent Lucario vids (as few as there are), you'll notice that he almost NEVER uses Dair.

The reason? Nobody's stupid enough to get under him anymore.

Abuse the hell out of Dair until they just plain stop getting under you. At which point it will simply become a punisher/offstage gimper/combo finisher.

 

[phi1ny3]

Don't spam it. Only use it once or twice if you know it'll force a whiff. Then you could Nair. This actually is a pretty common use for it against characters that generally outrange our Dair with their own Uair/Utilt/Usmash, etc.



Luc's shieldgrab is NOT decent. It's pretty suck. We get like no range, so we can only punish horribly misspaced aerials that they accidentally land with or something. Our only saving grace for shieldgrabbing is our amazing traction. It's better than nothing, I guess, but it is definitely on the worse end for shieldgrabs.

I mean seriously, couldn't he lean just a LITTLE bit farther like Marth does and snatch them from 5 yards away like (Melee) Marth?


Oh yeah, and for the main topic, if you watch some of Azen's recent Lucario vids (as few as there are), you'll notice that he almost NEVER uses Dair.

The reason? Nobody's stupid enough to get under him anymore.

Abuse the hell out of Dair until they just plain stop getting under you. At which point it will simply become a punisher/offstage gimper/combo finisher.

tl;dr: Shield grab is a better option than upB oos.

 

[Kitamerby]

tl;dr: Shield grab is a better option than upB oos.

Double Team is a better option than up B oos.


And they shouldn't even be able to activate it.

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

Activate Extreme Speed? Yeah, you can. You need tap jump on, though, I believe. If you weren't talking about up-b, just ignore me.

 

[Mattsy]

Is hard to imagine a lucario not spamming the dair. Recently i mean trying to pick up Lucario and I been using it to punish the rolls like mad.

Utilt punishes rolls better, IMO. Bigger hitbox.

 

[Milln]

Well, recently I've been practicing Lucario a lot. I do mean A LOT.

You see, the other day, I went to a tournament and my main goal was not to dair spam as much. It's odd though, everyone that I went up against I spammed aura sphere, grabs, and shorthop (extremely short hop, like... Barely off the ground) dair. I ended up placing fifth in doubles and did better in singles against people that normally **** me. (Aka a normal Lucario player and I beat a pro Snake).

I know a lot of you say don't spam dair as much, but I think I've come up with a way to use it without any problem at all.

Once I get a video of a match, I will post it on here and show you. It's a pretty decent tactic, at least, I would think so.

I like how Pantheon comes in here with an extremely vague and insubstantial proclamation about some revolutionary way to utilize down air. And then gives no video or description and leaves us to have the same discussion we've had for a year.

 

[Mattsy]

I like how Pantheon comes in here with an extremely vague and insubstantial proclamation about some revolutionary way to utilize down air. And then gives no video or description and leaves us to have the same discussion we've had for a year.

I like toast. :>

More than likely the time he would have spent dairing he spent tilting.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

5 to 1 says it's just a Riverdance.

 

[Omnath]

I'm not talking about spamming it out of the air though. More along the lines of right off the ground. It's really easy and surprises people really easily.

 

[Omnath]

I like how Pantheon comes in here with an extremely vague and insubstantial proclamation about some revolutionary way to utilize down air. And then gives no video or description and leaves us to have the same discussion we've had for a year.

Like I said in the main post... I'm going to post one eventually, unfortunately my capture card is gone.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I'll take my money now.

 

[Omnath]

I'll take my money now.

Haha, riverdancing, you call it? I tap jump then down air really fast. The hitbox seems to extend fairly far in front of you. (Though some characters have so much range that it's just ******** to even try it)

 

[Mattsy]

I'll take my money now.

Touché, good sir.

 

[|RK|]

*Gasp* it's NEW. It's REVOLUTIONARY. I figured it out ON MY OWN! In the Wi-Fi practice room, no less! Because it's simple momentum cancelliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing! Well, thanks for trying,I guess.

 

[Ilucamy]

Ohhhh I get it now, he's talking about when you dair right when you leave the ground so it looks like a shffl

I forget what we called that technique, but it's in a guide somewhere (probably millns)
Dair doesn't have good horizontal range. This technique is only good if your opponent decides to stand right on top of you and not do anything...

In fact *goes and finds video*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdqEOnCgoA0
3:40, the very very first inner fire

 

[Milln]

Thank you, Ilucamy. You saved me the time of pointing out that it's been a year since we've known about this and I will instead use this newfound time to thank you. I called it instant down air if I remember properly.

Ilucamy receives nine Milln Points.


For the rest of this topic: Move along. Nothing new to see here.

 

[Browny]

omg...

imagine SHFF, L-cancelled (64 style) Lucario dairs -> wavedash -> repeat

:D

 

[Milln]

omg...

imagine SHFF, L-cancelled (64 style) Lucario dairs -> wavedash -> repeat

:D

I think you forget that Lucario has cleets for paws. He'sa goin' nowheres. =o /Gungan

 

[tedward2000]

guys, I've been calling this Dair-thingy a Mirco-Dair for like the longest time. Hell I even made a thread and vid on it. (back when cario was new).
-t2

 

[Omnath]

Well, it was new to me. (Maybe you could have been a little nicer about breaking the news to me, eh?)

 

[phi1ny3]

Well, it was new to me. (Maybe you could have been a little nicer about breaking the news to me, eh?)

He was. Do you want to know what Aurashade or Shaya would've said if it's already been known?

 

[Omnath]

He was. Do you want to know what Aurashade or Shaya would've said if it's already been known?

I might as well stop posting threads though if I'm going to get an answer like, "Well DUHHHHH, we already know that. Sod off."

Not like I knew you have known that. Maybe the links thread needs to be updated?