Q&A New to Yoshi? (or not) Ask your questions here!

[Limbose]

Does anyone know the frames in which Yoshi's super armor on his Flutter (jump) is active?

More or less, is it active during the beginning/middle/end of the Flutter?

Subtractive Armor. It's active on frame 1 of the jump and all the way through about when Yoshi lowers his head all the way down at the end. Just counted the frames, it lasts from frame 1-70 of the jump.
Keep in mind that if you use an aerial, the armor immediately goes away on frame 1 of the attack.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Awesome! I'll keep all that in mind, practice up, and let you know if I see some major improvement. I appreciate the advice, guys. Especially TomBo. I'm using Black Yoshi now because of you.

That's extremely flattering, thank you. Though the funny thing is, I gave up Black Yoshi a long time ago because it seemed everyone wanted to play Black Yoshi. I've been wearing the White skin for over a year, ask @ Mumbo or @ Scatz

 

[Feral Cadence]

Lol. I actually switched away from dark blue Yoshi because that's the color I see most often. I flip between black and purple, but I've been landing on black more frequently. It seems like people stay away from red, either in respect to, or to differentiate from Amsa. Maybe I'll do that, since he plays Lucario in PM anyways, if he even still does anymore.

 

[Limbose]

I'm always Yellow. Very very very rarely will I ever be Pink, but that's about it.
Black is for punks.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Watch it, dude. Yoshi colors aren't just changing his clothes. He can't help it if he's black. We don't want no Yoshi racists now, do we?

 

[TomBoComBo]

I play Black Yoshi if I want to run faster and jump higher. I can't give up my ability to swim though, so I stick to white

 

[Limbose]

That's true, that's true. Your Yoshi color is what's in your heart, can't just change it willy-nilly.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

Personally my favorite Yoshi color is the light blue one, but some people aren't intimidated by it so I tend to play black Yoshi at tournament.

Also, quick question, for DJC's do you guys tend to use the tap to jump feature or just double tap the jump button (I use Y because I've always used it)?

The reason I ask is because I started trying out Lucas and to do his DJC's you have to either be extremely quick with a single button or use tap to jump. I find that when I switch back to Yoshi from Lucas my thumb moves TOO fast and I end up just getting stuck on the ground because of the double jump's dip. :/

 

[Limbose]

Personally my favorite Yoshi color is the light blue one, but some people aren't intimidated by it so I tend to play black Yoshi at tournament.

Also, quick question, for DJC's do you guys tend to use the tap to jump feature or just double tap the jump button (I use Y because I've always used it)?

The reason I ask is because I started trying out Lucas and to do his DJC's you have to either be extremely quick with a single button or use tap to jump. I find that when I switch back to Yoshi from Lucas my thumb moves TOO fast and I end up just getting stuck on the ground because of the double jump's dip. :/

I find that just double tapping Y works well enough for aerials right off the ground. If you want to do a DJ land out of shield, I have a second jump button I can use for that. Past that, just double tapping a button is fine if you're not a snail.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

I find that just double tapping Y works well enough for aerials right off the ground. If you want to do a DJ land out of shield, I have a second jump button I can use for that. Past that, just double tapping a button is fine if you're not a snail.

Yeah, the problem is that I'm too fast sometimes haha. Snail I am not for I am Yoshi.

 

[Limbose]

Yeah, the problem is that I'm too fast sometimes haha. Snail I am not for I am Yoshi.

Just takes practice, get used to pacing yourself if you're going too fast. Less autopilot, I suppose.

 

[NW_Gump]

Posted this in PMS cause I didn't know where else to put it but then i found this thread! anyways, copying and pasting from there.... When I watch Hamyojo play, he tends to approach with a lot of Fair's into Up tilt or just fairs in general. Is that generally a good option for yoshi or is that just his own preference? The way I use it right now is kind of like DK's Fair, so not as an approach (but I am very new to Yoshi).

Also, Sidenote(but probably bigger topic), how do you attack the Neutral as the Yo-man, because i'm kind of just throwing out lots of bairs and nairs, CC dtilting, and Dash dancing into grabs.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Yoshi requires a large amount of thought behind him to be really effective in neutral game. Many have said he's more of an "all in" or "Get in" character, but he also has the tools to make an approach insanely safe. you don't really want to throw out stuff for no reason because Yoshi can get caught and punished hard by smarter players.

Fair is a good approach, but there are always better or different ways to do so, it's all situation-dependent.

 

[NW_Gump]

Thanks! That's helpful. Is there anyone playing yoshi to watch outside of Hamyojo and Zubat with tournament videos?

 

[TomBoComBo]

I will have lots of stuff once I get my rig up and running

 

[Limbose]

You should be able to find me on most Thursdays on the Austin PM twitch channel. Sometimes Saturdays on UTSmash as well.
Also, the VODs thread is super good to check out. Look through the videos there.

 

[NW_Gump]

Thanks guys. After playing around with this slippery character for a while I'm feeling that the yo-man fits me the best so I'm going to start pumping my time into him.

 

[Limbose]

Welcome aboard. It's a long and bumpy ride, but it's a fun one.

 

[Mumbo]

What do you do against footstooling? There is the ever so common suggestion to just upair someone above you, but that comes with the caveat that you lose upward momentum, lose armor, and if you get hit or even trade, you die. At the very least, it becomes a 50/50, footstool or pretend to footstool to bait the uair, where if the yoshi wins he gets one uair, but if the yoshi loses he dies. Personally, I think it's a problem and makes Yoshi a low tier character, we just don't see people utilizing footstooling often.

 

[TomBoComBo]

What do you do against footstooling? There is the ever so common suggestion to just upair someone above you, but that comes with the caveat that you lose upward momentum, lose armor, and if you get hit or even trade, you die. At the very least, it becomes a 50/50, footstool or pretend to footstool to bait the uair, where if the yoshi wins he gets one uair, but if the yoshi loses he dies. Personally, I think it's a problem and makes Yoshi a low tier character, we just don't see people utilizing footstooling often.

I just airdodge past them or eggroll usually. Those who are smart enough to jump off me when I come off the ledge simply make me stop taking that option. Usually if they want footstools, they'll come somewhat out on me and I can just keep distance for a split second then eggroll back. Yes it's a glaring flaw in Yoshi, but not one that puts him that low on the tier list. Rising aerials, airdodge, mixups are all good to combat it.

 

[theOVEN]

What do you do against footstooling? There is the ever so common suggestion to just upair someone above you, but that comes with the caveat that you lose upward momentum, lose armor, and if you get hit or even trade, you die. At the very least, it becomes a 50/50, footstool or pretend to footstool to bait the uair, where if the yoshi wins he gets one uair, but if the yoshi loses he dies. Personally, I think it's a problem and makes Yoshi a low tier character, we just don't see people utilizing footstooling often.

when every player learns how to footstool, yoshi will be bottom tier, until then, air dodge up past them and laugh while you edgeguard them

 

[Feral Cadence]

Footstooling will only ever be a great option against a Yoshi who's recovering from straight up below the stage, and even then, rising up-air beats out a lot of moves people would use to fake out a footstool. You'll only lose upward momentum if they hit you. And you've got enough aerial mobility to recover out, and back in to get away from most footstool attempts.

It's unfortunate when it happens, but Yoshi has enough great onstage and offstage tools that that one situation doesn't throw him into any lower tier. Footstooling is a good mixup option against Yoshi, but in no way guaranteed.

 

[theOVEN]

Footstooling will only ever be a great option against a Yoshi who's recovering from straight up below the stage, and even then, rising up-air beats out a lot of moves people would use to fake out a footstool. You'll only lose upward momentum if they hit you. And you've got enough aerial mobility to recover out, and back in to get away from most footstool attempts.

It's unfortunate when it happens, but Yoshi has enough great onstage and offstage tools that that one situation doesn't throw him into any lower tier. Footstooling is a good mixup option against Yoshi, but in no way guaranteed.

heh, that was more of a 20XX scenario, I think that yoshi's recovery options are just fine, maybe even a little bit OP if your opponent doesn't think to grab you out of non-sweetspot DJ aerials. Rising fair is actually a great option to punish would-be footstoolers as well, since you move your hurtboxes back during the windup and you get a free meteor if you have good timing.

 

[ForTheLulz]

Hi, I'm a (Yoshi/Bowser/Marth/Luigi) main (I plan to main at least one and secondary all the others since I usually play pm exclusively).

Does Yoshi have a (near-)infinite ledgestall? I've tried ledgedrop -> doublejump -> down special with limited success.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Hi, I'm a (Yoshi/Bowser/Marth/Luigi) main (I plan to main at least one and secondary all the others since I usually play pm exclusively).

Does Yoshi have a (near-)infinite ledgestall? I've tried ledgedrop -> doublejump -> down special with limited success.

nobody has an infinite ledgestall because regrabbing the ledge 5 times makes you vulnerable much like a single regrab does in smash4. Yoshi doesn't need to stall, and it's unsafe to do so because of his limited vertical recovery. Armor back to stage and restart neutral where Yoshi is strongest, the ledge is not where Yoshi wants to be.

 

[Limbose]

nobody has an infinite ledgestall because regrabbing the ledge 5 times makes you vulnerable much like a single regrab does in smash4.

Actually, it's little known, but Bowser has an infinite ledge stall. He touches the ground during it and gets back on the edge before invincibility wears off. Hard to do, but not impossible.

Hi, I'm a (Yoshi/Bowser/Marth/Luigi) main (I plan to main at least one and secondary all the others since I usually play pm exclusively).

Does Yoshi have a (near-)infinite ledgestall? I've tried ledgedrop -> doublejump -> down special with limited success.

Your best bet for a ledge stall is egg stalling. There's a thread talking about how to do it a little further down the page, check that out. It can be useful, but have discretion with it and don't use it in tourney until you've got a solid handle on it. You'll kill yourself all the time if you don't.

 

[theOVEN]

Your best bet for a ledge stall is egg stalling. There's a thread talking about how to do it a little further down the page, check that out. It can be useful, but have discretion with it and don't use it in tourney until you've got a solid handle on it. You'll kill yourself all the time if you don't.

it's also worth mentioning that unlike melee, ledge stalling with eggs is NOT FRAME SAFE in PM. Most players don't know this...ssshhh, don't tell everybody. Egg stalling is still useful to bait impatient opponents and is great against chars that don't have very good edgeguard options to force them to give you space, but definitely don't throw eggs if the opponent is capable of spiking or meteoring you at low % because that's asking to get bonked. Also don't throw more than 5 in a row, for obvious reasons.

 

[TomBoComBo]

ECE's are ok, but as Oven said, they aren't safe, and a sneaky/knowledgeable/bold/smart player can just bop you with little trouble. I personally never ECE, but I would say that they're good sparingly. They also don't do the same amount of % that melee eggs do, so that lowers usefulness a good bit as well (not to mention rising aerials to get back and other mix-ups in recovering)

 

[Mumbo]

ECE's are not useful for stalling in this game. I mostly use it to refresh my invincibility on the ledge once if i lose it or if i want to mixup. It's also good to use one or two to zone people trying to edgegaurd you and make it back to the stage safely. But as the two people before me said, it's not safe as a stall.

 

[__9__]

Hello,

I have recently picked up yoshi for my weekly smash group and I was wondering if anyone had tips for a couple of my tougher matchups in the group. I would like some match up advice for Ike, Ness, Samus and Lucario. I play with a group of about 10 but those four are the mains of the better players, the hardest being the Ike main that also has a secondary Zelda. Hope someone is familiar with these match ups, thank you.

__9__

 

[Limbose]

Hello,

I have recently picked up yoshi for my weekly smash group and I was wondering if anyone had tips for a couple of my tougher matchups in the group. I would like some match up advice for Ike, Ness, Samus and Lucario. I play with a group of about 10 but those four are the mains of the better players, the hardest being the Ike main that also has a secondary Zelda. Hope someone is familiar with these match ups, thank you.

__9__

Ness: Either shield or powershield PK Fire. Always be aware of when he might throw one at you. Also, never go deep for Ness off stage. If you miss, he can just dair you faster than you can really do much about it. It breaks DJ Armor around 50 I think, but still, be very careful with that.
Samus: Try not to give her room to start missile cancelling on platforms, else she'll be extremely hard to approach. If you can, get to a safe location and try and peg her with eggs to make her stop shooting missiles for a second so you can get in and pressure her. Also, when she tethers, grab the edge and punish from there.
Lucario: DI. DI, DI, DI, DI. You've gotta DI from his combos. Away and down usually works out the best, makes him work harder to keep hitting you. Once you can hit him, though, he's pretty easy to combo as he has no super quick aerials that he can break out with. He's also fairly easy to edgeguard, either with Dsmash, dtilt, or nair. The combos are the biggest stickler here, though.
Ike: When you're being edgeguarded by Ike, if you're above stage, you're gonna want to Airdodge through his attacks. They're usually slow enough for you to get down to earth in time to be back in neutral. If you don't, I had an Ike combo Fsmash into Fsmash against me one time. It was actually the worst. Be aware of his quickdraw. If you see him charging it up, Dair can catch most stuff they do out of it. Be careful just throwing it out though, if you're far away, the Ike can wait and then go in with a charged up smash and do some major damage, among other things.
Zelda: Try and clank the fire with nair or something when you can, just to get it off the field. Familiarize yourself with Zelda's teleport distance and always consider where she could be going, whether she's using it to approach or recover. Try and remove yourself from those positions while maintaining spacing to punish with a dsmash or something. You can use Eggs to cover her teleport options and narrow it down a bit. Also be aware that she's very floaty, so while she's a bit harder to combo, a dthrow -> uair can kill pretty well.

I'm by no means an expert, but I hope this helps. Someone else'll probably come in to tell me that everything I said is completely wrong, which is cool too. Good luck man.

 

[theOVEN]

Limbo's mostly on the money, Ness and Ike I have a lot of experience with though so a few worth adding maybe:

• Ness has excellent combo potential on Yoshi and also faster and safer dj options in general compared to you, and a good grab game with easy followups. One thing he doesn't have is a reliable kill out of grab (bthrow is easy to DI and shouldn't be a kill until 150%+ on most stages). Use this to your advantage...a good Ness player is going to beat you every time in a DJC pissing contest and body you all over the stage at low %. The big thing is don't panic, and conserve your dj at all costs. One good fair setup or dj armor dair is a kill or at least a lot of % on Ness and if you don't kill he should hopefully be way offstage and in a position where he has to use upb to recover. It takes a lot of practice but one of the best kill options on Ness is to clank the pk thunder projectile with an egg and laugh. It's incredibly unsettling for the Ness as well, and Yoshi is all about mind games and frustrating your opponent, so use this to your advantage.
• Ike is confirmed for OP, so don't feel too bad if you get bodied by him. Practice throwing very close to vertical eggs near the edge while facing away and then using your large backward grab box to confuse the Ike player and force them into not sweet spotting their upb, and you should be able to waveland on stage and punish them pretty easily. In the "pinwheel" part of aether there's a pretty large hurtbox during the whole move, so you should be able to at least trade or possibly beat the move depending on your spacing with nair. Practice invincible rising nair off the edge as well and you can surprise ike with a stage spike when they come in with aerial QD right as he hits the wall, that's when he's most vulnerable.
• one trick I found out with Zelda is that it's actually fairly easy to armor through her teleport damage and blue stuff. As long as you're not afraid of a few %, you can stuff her two most dangerous approaches just by jumping at them then kicking her in the face. Blue stuff only has invincibility for the first few frames, but you need to armor it to beat it. Teleport damage comes out at the same time as her hurtboxes so throw nair out early and have your back to center stage and you should be fine.

 

[__9__]

Thanks for the advice guys on my matchups I did not get to read them till after I played my matches. With that being a said I actually did pretty well I was able to take a few matches off the Ness player and the Samus player. I still had quite a bit of trouble with the Ike player and a Marth player that I beat by gimping but it felt like he was in control for the whole match. It seemed like he was able to combo me well and had really good answers to my approach options. Anyone else have problems with the Martha matchups.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Marth is apparently really in Yoshi's favor, given that double jump armor makes it so he can only really reliably kill you at higher percents. That, and the fact that it's super easy to gimp Marth with down tilts.

That being said, I struggle against Marth, and that's mainly because to get in on him, you need to get into your opponent's head. If they get a grab on you, know how to DI. He's tough to combo at mid percents, so focus on putting him in an edge guard situation.

His up-B is easily punishable when not sweetspotted, so grab ledge if he's out of his second jump.

 

[Scatz]

Marth highly depends on the neutral game. You want to slowly take his space away without losing your ability to defend yourself from his usual approach options (Fair, Dash atk, JC Grab, Dtilt, Fsmash[lol]). Once you get him cornered or in the air, you can take advantage of Yoshi's armor or ability to dodge and attack. So long as you can keep him cornered to not be able to use his dash dance, you can get the upper hand in netting damage from mistakes. Outside of that, both characters go pretty even in neutral.

 

[Daxter]

My cute lil' Orange Yoshi is my choice. Anyway, since I'm still new to competitve Yoshi...

- Some people can turn around after starting a Neutral Air, how do they do that?
- RECOVERY? Distance is not so bad for me, but... What's the safest option?
- How do I do Up-Airs from the ground without being magnetically forced back to ground level?
- What shall we do about Snake? I also play as Bowser, and so far, even the CPU Snake crushes me every time. Marth's endless grabs are a problem too, but Snake is my priority to counter.

Sorry if these have been answered before, typed in a hurry ^^;

 

[TomBoComBo]

My cute lil' Orange Yoshi is my choice. Anyway, since I'm still new to competitve Yoshi...

- Some people can turn around after starting a Neutral Air, how do they do that?
- RECOVERY? Distance is not so bad for me, but... What's the safest option?
- How do I do Up-Airs from the ground without being magnetically forced back to ground level?
- What shall we do about Snake? I also play as Bowser, and so far, even the CPU Snake crushes me every time. Marth's endless grabs are a problem too, but Snake is my priority to counter.

Sorry if these have been answered before, typed in a hurry ^^;

1- they wait for the move to end and input a reverse jump and DJC into another aerial.
2- usually recovering high is safest, but it's all about what the opponent wants to do. Yoshi has a huge amount of aerial mobility, eggroll lets you get back as well.
3- turn tap jump off and/or use cstick to do Uair. or do a DJ rising Uair.
4- snake is all about knowing where puts his bombs. Hes the perfect weight for combos, grab him and you'll get all the percent you need. also Dsmash kills him if he doesn't sweetspot the ledge

 

[Limbose]

My cute lil' Orange Yoshi is my choice. Anyway, since I'm still new to competitve Yoshi...

- Some people can turn around after starting a Neutral Air, how do they do that?
- RECOVERY? Distance is not so bad for me, but... What's the safest option?
- How do I do Up-Airs from the ground without being magnetically forced back to ground level?
- What shall we do about Snake? I also play as Bowser, and so far, even the CPU Snake crushes me every time. Marth's endless grabs are a problem too, but Snake is my priority to counter.

Sorry if these have been answered before, typed in a hurry ^^;

Once you start to play Snakes who are smart against Yoshi, they're going to stick you and wait for you to double jump off stage. Then they'll just pop it and you'll be without a jump, fall, and die. Only way to deal with that is to watch him and if you see him going for the detonation when you're in your jump between about 45~110% and Nair. That takes you out of your jump, removing armor, and should knock you upward as normal. Any higher than 110 and you'll probably die on most stages that aren't really big. But, at a certain point, like 200+%, you can armor the explosion, not die, but still get knocked up a reasonable distance.
Basically, just keep an eye out for it and use your best judgement on how to survive.

 

[Yallo42]

Why did PMDT change yoshi's parry?

 

[-Maddox-]

Why did PMDT change yoshi's parry?

Because it was broken and effectively meant that Yoshi's shield didn't come out until frame 7. This is a pretty welcomed change by Yoshi players.