Q&A New to Yoshi? (or not) Ask your questions here!

[Yallo42]

Because it was broken and effectively meant that Yoshi's shield didn't come out until frame 7. This is a pretty welcomed change by Yoshi players.

I'm pretty sure if you were hit during the parry you would powershield, and you could completely dodge grabs, so I'm not sure how it was broken. And correct me if I'm wrong, but yoshi's shield still doesn't come out until frame 7. Also can someone explain how to use the new parry, because it seems pretty much useless.

 

[-Maddox-]

I'm pretty sure if you were hit during the parry you would powershield, and you could completely dodge grabs, so I'm not sure how it was broken. And correct me if I'm wrong, but yoshi's shield still doesn't come out until frame 7. Also can someone explain how to use the new parry, because it seems pretty much useless.

It was broken because you would parry the initial hit but still be vulnerable to the rest of the hitbox afterward, this didn't happen in melee. Yoshi still has a 6 frame animation where he is getting in shield but his shield is actually up on frame 1 now.

In short they removed parrying since they couldn't get it to work correctly, now Yoshi's shield functions just like a normal shield, except it doesn't get smaller.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I miss grab parry, but intangibility on nose on startup is a spiritual successor. I HATE the eggroll nerf and the grab nerf. mostly the eggroll nerf

 

[Getsafe]

Egg roll nerf, grab nerf, and weight reduction all NEED to be reversed. Everything else is fine.

Can someone please make a well written and professional argument for this and send it to PMDT?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Eggroll is the only real one that NEEDS to be reversed. everything else is actually ok

 

[deeseejay]

Agreed. Played a LOT last night with friends and basically with eggroll changes it means no jump = death. A character that relies on using double jump for trading and movement it means Yoshi get's punished SO hard now.

Playing against a ZZS her fair would just kill me in the most pathetic away due to the poor recovery.
Survival DI = free follow up into another Fair
Combo DI= knocked away too far to actually recovery with jump

EVERYTHING else is manageable, eggroll changes make Yoshi incredibly bad this patch imo. Really really bad.

 

[Limbose]

Well, I'm sad they couldn't find a way to make it work properly. I like parrying grabs. I was just starting to get a hang of doing it intentionally :/

And are the eggroll changes really that bad? They didn't seem too terrible to me on first sight. I'm most sad about the weight change and the grab change.

 

[deeseejay]

Honestly, it's so bad.

It's just makes recovering really one dimensional, especially with recovering with JUST the jump is so predictable. It's got a very readable arc of motion.

How to edgeguard Yoshi in 3.6:

Watch where's the Yoshi is approaching, read where his jump arc is going (can't shift momentum or anything if you're in the middle of a double jump) then hit with a multi hit move (first hit removes armour) or really strong high knockback move and watch the Yoshi tumble to their death. Eggroll can't get you back on stage now, the horizontal momentum has been removed and you just look like an idiot when you fall and die.

It's really, really difficult now.

 

[Limbose]

Yeah, upon second glance, it's a pretty brutal nerf. They should definitely reverse it and probably the weight change too. Maybe the grab too. Also, something should be added to dair to make it not super unsafe at low percents. Whether that's the landing hit back or more hitstun, I don't know.

 

[deeseejay]

Keep all the other changes, just give me eggroll back ):

 

[Feral Cadence]

Can you jump out of those six frames now?

(Edit) From the shield animation, I mean.

 

[Yallo42]

Can you jump out of those six frames now?

(Edit) From the shield animation, I mean.

No. You can grab, roll or sidestep though.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Eggroll is basically melee bad right now for recovering. I just want that back and maybe a slight increase on stun of Dair. Everything else is manageable. The grab nerf is rough, but just time it with their Lcancel, you'll get the same grab, just a tighter window

also grab parry is still there, it's just in the form of spacing now. You can avoid them at a distance with the intangibility of his face. But you can do the same thing by doing an Fsmash, so..... yeah

 

[Getsafe]

According to the notes his face intangibility is grabable

 

[TomBoComBo]

According to the notes his face intangibility is grabable

the shield is, intangible by definition means untouchable. it's a mini-parry that requires spacing

 

[Feral Cadence]

Yeah, after stewing on it more, I can deal with the grab and shield changes. It'd be nice to be able to jump out of shield before frame 7, but in return we can't be shield poked like everyone else can. The biggest frustrations I'm going to have will be the weight change and the egg roll nerf.

But hey, I like playing Yoshi in Melee. It might be nice to learn to win with a bad character again.

 

[-Maddox-]

Ugh yeah this patch ****** Yoshi over something fierce

 

[theOVEN]

new dair (basically pre-3.5 dair but with a little less damage) is incredible, I think it makes up for grab and weight nerfs alone. I was initially really salty about the upair nerf but it actually is more useful for comboing out of with nair or fair followups now, so that's a wash. This new eggroll is basically trash for recovering though...good thing I'm bad and spam it as an approach anyway and it still functions well that way

 

[BrownYoshi]

So, I have a question.
What are some tips for fighting against Ganondorf? I keep running into a fair amount in both tournament and friendly play and I always get wrecked by them (even before 3.6b), to the point where I feel it's Yoshi's worst matchup sometimes. It's a struggle because he tends to break through armor much sooner than most characters, and his unshieldable side B, if I get caught in it, I usually get combo-ed.
I didn't see any videos in the VOD thread for against Ganondorf, so I was hoping I could get advice here.

 

[theOVEN]

dorf is a hard MU for sure, I dunno if I'd say it's yoshi's worst but it's definitely up there. I'll look for a vid of myself beating a dorf (I beat most I've played) but here's a few MU specific tips:

• dorf's recovery is solid but very easy to beat if you get a good read. edgeguard him with dtilt, it's OP and can beat both sideb and upb with good spacing. crawl into it for optimal fun. after dtilting, immediately downb onto the edge or djc ledgehog (even faster), this can beat either of his recoveries if he attempts to sweetspot
  
• git gud at djc upairs, dorf is one of if not the easiest characters to juggle in the game and as long as you can stay out of range of his upair you'll be able to bully him all the way across the stage with an upair out of neutral
• fsmash beats dorf's sideb easily, try to bait him into approaching your shield with flame choke then wavedash backward oos and fsmash, this also works against grounded wizard kick if he's dumb and approaches with a raw downb

 

[Mumbo]

• fsmash beats dorf's sideb easily, try to bait him into approaching your shield with flame choke then wavedash backward oos and fsmash, this also works against grounded wizard kick if he's dumb and approaches with a raw downb

Literally changed my life if thats true. If Fsmash beats BOTH SIDE B AND DOWN B I don't think I will lose to another ganondorf ever again.

 

[Limbose]

Literally changed my life if thats true. If Fsmash beats BOTH SIDE B AND DOWN B I don't think I will lose to another ganondorf ever again.

Honestly, a better option is to wavedash back or just run away and let it whiff once it's coming and then punish with a grab into a bunch of %. Fsmash works when needed though.

 

[theOVEN]

Honestly, a better option is to wavedash back or just run away and let it whiff once it's coming and then punish with a grab into a bunch of %. Fsmash works when needed though.

right, to clarify, the main point of the wavedash backward OOS is to force dorf to whiff assuming that he put your shield in the "sweetspot" of his sideb and wanted to surprise you with it from far away. For a point blank flame choke or for beating wizard kick, you can still beat both with fsmash but you need to have good timing especially for beating flame choke, release the smash a couple frames earlier than you might anticipate so you don't trade with grab armor.

nair also beats flame choke but not all the time, that needs more investigation

 

[Limbose]

Something else to watch out for: When Ganon aerial flame chokes to the edge to recover, do NOT, under any circumstances, dtilt or dsmash him until the grab box is gone. If you do, you'll hit him and he'll tank it while you teleport to him and get ganon-cided. Unless you're ahead and do this intentionally, you gotta time it at the end of the move. It sucks enormous ass to have this happen to you.

 

[Mumbo]

Something else to watch out for: When Ganon aerial flame chokes to the edge to recover, do NOT, under any circumstances, dtilt or dsmash him until the grab box is gone. If you do, you'll hit him and he'll tank it while you teleport to him and get ganon-cided. Unless you're ahead and do this intentionally, you gotta time it at the end of the move. It sucks enormous *** to have this happen to you.

In some cases its not even a matter of grab armor. Dtilt's hurtbox literally comes out before the hitbox, so you an get grabbed before the animation even looks like you should.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

How bout that 3.6B Yoshi doe?

 

[BrownYoshi]

Thanks for the tips guys! I'll keep all that in mind when I fight Ganondorfs.
I did experiment and found with good timing, I can use a simple jab to hit ganondorf out of his flame choke. As in he takes damage and the attack stops. Though if I'm too early he gets me, if I'm barely too late he takes the damage but he still gets me, if I'm too late, he gets me. I'll try Fsmash timing soon.
I've been practicing DJC Uairs for a while, but I'm still not very quick with it yet, at least not short hop ones, but I'm working on it.

 

[Mumbo]

Thanks for the tips guys! I'll keep all that in mind when I fight Ganondorfs.
I did experiment and found with good timing, I can use a simple jab to hit ganondorf out of his flame choke. As in he takes damage and the attack stops. Though if I'm too early he gets me, if I'm barely too late he takes the damage but he still gets me, if I'm too late, he gets me. I'll try Fsmash timing soon.
I've been practicing DJC Uairs for a while, but I'm still not very quick with it yet, at least not short hop ones, but I'm working on it.

It doesn't actually matter if you short hop or full hop DJC aerials.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Are there any decent 3.6 Yoshi videos yet? I'd try to make some, but my tourney scene isn't very big yet. Or, more accurately, doesn't exist yet. Otherwise I'd be posting my own.

 

[theOVEN]

Are there any decent 3.6 Yoshi videos yet? I'd try to make some, but my tourney scene isn't very big yet. Or, more accurately, doesn't exist yet. Otherwise I'd be posting my own.

it's up to you to decide if these are decent or not but I just put a few in the video thread ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[King Boolean]

What are Yoshi's anti-CC options besides Dtilt and grab? I find myself over reliant on these 2 options in neutral when my opponent is under ~40%.

 

[TomBoComBo]

What are Yoshi's anti-CC options besides Dtilt and grab? I find myself over reliant on these 2 options in neutral when my opponent is under ~40%.

you can Dsmash, Ftilt and Utilt.
Dsmash is for the latter end of that 40%. Ftilt and Utilt are optimal for most MUs against CC, because it will cause the opponent to instantly enter Knock-down. In this case, you can Jab reset for anything you want, you can Dsmash, or you can Dtilt. Obviously Jab reset is the best option.

 

[Getsafe]

What do you do on shields? I've seen Fair->down B work well as a mix up but otherwise what do you go with? Jab/tilt and pray they grab too early? Or maybe well spaced RAR djc Bair to tilts? Is Dair cross up still a thing?

 

[Feral Cadence]

Definitely cross up whenever possible if you're going in on their shield. Most people will be able to shield grab you if you don't. Even better than attacking their shield though is to go for a neutral B. Command grabs are great, and if you space it well, it'll be difficult for them to ever punish you for it if they happen to dodge. If their shield is low, sometimes a d-tilt or d-smash will poke, but don't rely on those too much.

B-air works well to poke shields be nature of how wild its hitboxes are, and it helps if you cross up there too. Fair to single jab to rising nair works against a lot of people who are expecting double jab, but doesn't put you in a very good position (above them with your nair still out).

Overall, just try to be safe and unpredictable. That goes for a lot of Yoshi's neutral. And a lot of Smash's neutral, I guess.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Fun fact: Yoshi can chaingrab spacies with up throw up until the point where he can start chain grabbing them with down throw. The grab box on his head is massive enough that pivot grabbing in place usually does the trick.

At least, I'm pretty sure they can't get out of it...

 

[__9__]

What are Yoshi's options out of shield?

 

[Limbose]

What are Yoshi's options out of shield?

Jump, DJLand dsmash among other things, letting go of shield, rolling in some matchups, spotdodge if they're going to grab. The usual. DJLs are the hardest unless you have tap jump, in which case it's pretty easy. Tap jump is for chumps though. It's only a 2 frame timing, not that bad.

 

[Yallo42]

Tap jump is for chumps though.

SHOTS FIRED!!!11!

 

[TomBoComBo]

I love just a shorthop Nair OoS. It lets me space better and maneuver better. Nair also stays out until after you start to descend and lets you throw out another one and even a fair

 

[Zylix]

How do you guys usually deal with shield pressure? I can never seem to quickly Nair out of shield because I can never tell when I'm in shieldstun.

People seem to always shieldgrab me because I approach a lot with aerials. Basically if i'm above them, they just shield and wait. What's a good way to counter this behavior?

Also, something I wanted to confirm about Yoshi's Nair in general, it seems to do a lot more damage or at least knockback if you hit them within the first few frames of it, rather than it's standing frames. Is this actually true?