Q&A New to Yoshi? (or not) Ask your questions here!

[Festive]

Idea originally from @ didds
Figured this could be a nice thread for people to ask/answer general questions about our favorite dino. To avoid cluttering up the Yoshi board please ask all your questions here.

Hopefully you guys will participate!

 

[TomBoComBo]

Thank you @ Festive . I was actually just about to do this lol

First off:
If you ask a question, please RESPECT the answers you get from the Yoshi Mains here, we all will basically have different variations of the same answer and arguing is really not why we're here. Discussing and going deeper into your question however, we are more than happy to help with.

Second point that will clear the air a tad bit:

• Yoshi's recovery is not bad, it's actually quite fantastic, broken even in 3.02

Yoshi does NOT need a tongue tether, it would look absurd, make Yoshi impossible to kill, and you'd lose the ability to egglay off the stage.
Yoshi's eggthrow (upB) is modeled after Melee's eggthrow, therefor will not give you a boost or extra jump. This is the case because Melee eggthrow gave Yoshi more options and is a better tool than Brawl eggthrow. Plus if Yoshi got a boost from it, his recovery would be almost impossible to stop.
Eggroll does more than enough for Yoshi to get him back to stage and safely get him back to neutral.​

Absolutely everything else is fair game, we want to see this board grow and more players discover a passion for our favorite Dino.

 

[didds]

This is awesome, thank you @ Festive and @ TomBoComBo for getting this thread started, I think everyone here will be happier for it!

 

[THE adversary]

Why is there a 1% hitbox at the tip of Egg Lay?

Is Yoshi's f-air a (true) spike?

Did you know that double jump armor lasts even after Yoshi starts falling? (give or take 71 frames if not cancelled by anything)

 

[TomBoComBo]

The tip of egglay is a bug that allows you to draw in you opponent without swallowing, it's incredibly useful but the spacing to do it is so absurdly precise that it's just not worth it to master it (literally a pixel left or right would mean a full lay or a miss)

Fair is a meteor

Yes, armor lasts just after the apex of the jump

 

[THE adversary]

Thanks, Fair confused me as sometimes I'd hit them real up close at like Yoshi's neck and they'd fly at an angle towards me.

 

[PootisKonga]

When should I use Dtilt vs. Dsmash against non-fastfallers? Obviously it's character and percentage dependent, but I'd like a basic understanding since I know Dtilt has set knockback

 

[TomBoComBo]

Dsmash can be used basically any time dtilt can be. Dtilt is out in 7 frames where Dsmash is out I think 11? (maybe 14?)
Dsmash has a bigger vertical hitbox so keep that in mind (you can hit aerial enemies)

Dtilt has the set knockback so it's good to space out your opponent and give yourself breathing room/ a chance to techchase. Dtilt is good for early percents so you gain stage control, working past around 50%-70% you can start reliably using Dsmash for the same purpose. Before these percents (non-fastfallers) won't be able to cc it without heavy knockback or straight up death DI off the ledge.

Both are good tools, you want to phase into using Dsmash more as the stock progresses and less early-on

 

[TomBoComBo]

This thread's gunna end up as "ask TomBo"

 

[didds]

This thread's gunna end up as "ask TomBo"

give it some time, my response for dtilt/dsmash was almost done when you katana'd my assistance in half with your ninja abilities lol

ANYWAY, ISNT IT ENUFF THAT YOU'RE BEING HELPFUL!!!

 

[TomBoComBo]

give it some time, my response for dtilt/dsmash was almost done when you katana'd my assistance in half with your ninja abilities lol

ANYWAY, ISNT IT ENUFF THAT YOU'RE BEING HELPFUL!!!

I'm not complaining lol

 

[Festive]

This thread's gunna end up as "ask TomBo"

I'm always worried about giving the wrong advice since I'm new lol.

On the topic of questions, I've been practicing wavelanding and doing it on platforms constantly..but I can't seem to get constant movement down. (as well as doing the cool stuff like DJC FF Fair off a top platform to right under you..if that makes any sense at all.) Any advice for practice on that? I is just constantly practicing platform movement good enough?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Movement is simply a tool for spacing and to get where you need to be. consistency will come the more you practice in actual games. I personally have spent very little time in the lab to get my tech down, I learned it all by playing many many hours of friendlies and simply incorporating what I wanted to learn. Constantly practicing platform movement is good, but what if the opponent takes you to FD? you need to be consistent everywhere. Practice dashing in one direction and wavelanding in the opposite, then dashing in the same direction you wavelanded in and rinse and repeat. This is a good exercise that will help your movement be more fluid and diverse (since you should be able to do both directions and dashing out of wavedash is a good skill to have).

 

[Scatz]

Why is there a 1% hitbox at the tip of Egg Lay?

The tip of egglay is a bug that allows you to draw in you opponent without swallowing, it's incredibly useful but the spacing to do it is so absurdly precise that it's just not worth it to master it (literally a pixel left or right would mean a full lay or a miss)

IIRC, it's the move that makes opponents break out of the egg lay before being shallowed? The specific grab box for it is only 1 frame after the full extension (and last frame) for the intended egglay. If the numbers are still the same, you have about 30 frames to react to the situation. It's definitely not worth putting effort in other than being accustomed to recognizing it so that you can get a good hit off it. I used to get it a ton of times on Yoshi's normal egglay, but PM's version is much harder to pull off consistently, especially since the grab box feels slightly different than it's Brawl form.

Did you know that double jump armor lasts even after Yoshi starts falling? (give or take 71 frames if not cancelled by anything)

The moment his head pulls back at the top of his flutter kicks (not the name of the move lol) is when his armor ends. Smash 4's version does this, but I don't think PM can do that.

I'm always worried about giving the wrong advice since I'm new lol.

On the topic of questions, I've been practicing wavelanding and doing it on platforms constantly..but I can't seem to get constant movement down. (as well as doing the cool stuff like DJC FF Fair off a top platform to right under you..if that makes any sense at all.) Any advice for practice on that? I is just constantly practicing platform movement good enough?

Advice always gets corrected. It's how you learn. Make the small mistakes now so that you learn to not make them later.

Wavelanding in general? Or platform movement in its entirety?

If it's the former, then just practice doing it at different times. If you have a good judgement on doing platform wavelands on the fly, then you should be doing regular movement combined
with random attempts to platform waveland. Doing it spontaneously helps maintain muscle memory and bring up comfortableness.

As for platform movement in its entirety, You just have to pull the pieces together. Get used to doing one part consistently, then add another part, and keep adding parts until you can do it flawlessly.

 

[THE adversary]

Another question.
Should I ever dashdance as Yoshi?
aMSa rarely does it and he's the one my playstyle's most influenced by.
(Lots of Uair juggles and eggs to cover landings, and Ftilts to create space)
On his Twitter he says that he doesn't dashdance as he can't do ftilts that way

 

[TomBoComBo]

First, there's the thing about Melee vs PM, Melee that makes a lot of sense because most of the characters you'd fight are simply too fast and dashdancing would just give up space.

PM on the other hand, you should dashdance. It's a tool to allow your opponent to make mistakes and it creates space that the opponent needs to respect. If you want to Ftilt, you can buffer the input after any move by simply holding the direction and hitting A. If you're more comfortable using Ftlit to space instead of Dtilt, you can wavedash out of dash do make it more dynamic and controlled. You can do a full wavedash, or you can shorten it accordingly to the situation.

Dash dancing is very important to PM Yoshi, it allows you to be unpredictable (especially if you throw in wavedashes). As a last point to this, dash dancing in Melee was weak because Yoshi's grab was trash. Yoshi's grab in PM is ridiculous, his pivot grab is arguably the best in the game. Dash dancing lets you create the space to get those grabs and Dthrow gives you the options to follow up with your DJC Uairs and such.

Anything I need to add?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Thanks, Fair confused me as sometimes I'd hit them real up close at like Yoshi's neck and they'd fly at an angle towards me.

I forgot to touch on that, DI is the cause of that, it's not the move.

 

[didds]

Dash dancing is very important to PM Yoshi, it allows you to be unpredictable (especially if you throw in wavedashes). As a last point to this, dash dancing in Melee was weak because Yoshi's grab was trash. Yoshi's grab in PM is ridiculous, his pivot grab is arguably the best in the game. Dash dancing lets you create the space to get those grabs and Dthrow gives you the options to follow up with your DJC Uairs and such.

This right here, all good info, but I think the change in grab game is what really improves Yoshi's dash dance game so much.
Against an aggro opponent who doesn't learn from their mistakes (lol, hopefully this isn't often the case) you can pretty much win off of baited pivot grabs and the punishes you receive from them.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Starting to love this thread. MORE QUESTIONS! GIVE ME MORE!!

 

[THE adversary]

Ok, dashdance = good
I totally forgot about Yoshi's pivot grab, lmao
I learned earlier today that I could double jump land directly out of a dashdance into a tilt, which I find awesome as Utilt combos into everything

 

[Timid_Panda]

How do I keep people off the stage?
And how do I stop them from grabbing ledge?

 

[didds]

How do I keep people off the stage?
And how do I stop them from grabbing ledge?

run off, fast fall, turn around double jump will insta grab ledge.

from here you can roll up to cover sweet spots, you can rising nair and swat them away with your invincibility.

Dash attack is also great and will beat just about everything coming at you, the tip of his head is invincible and the hitbox will linger over the edge.

 

[TomBoComBo]

run off, fast fall, turn around double jump will insta grab ledge.

from here you can roll up to cover sweet spots, you can rising nair and swat them away with your invincibility.

Dash attack is also great and will beat just about everything coming at you, the tip of his head is invincible and the hitbox will linger over the edge.

Add eggs and deep rising Nairs/Fairs and you got it

 

[hamyojo]

Okay this is easier than a guide. Yoshi's neutral is simply too weird for me to try and explain. Huh.

Anyway, doesn't d-smash come out on frame 5? It's really godlike. If you have a hard read on someone's options OOS just wait at D-smash range. Wait for them to try to jump/roll/grab and d-smash them to oblivion. But that takes a super hard read, so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it too much.

And on edge guarding. Yoshi is very good at this, but most of his methods to edge guard are very character specific, so I don't have much in the way of "do this vs everyone and win." Just gotta watch vids and see how others do so. Make sure you can run off>double jump to the ledge edge grab. That's a good first start.

 

[THE adversary]

I like fsmash and dash attack for catching high recoveries because Yoshi's head is invincible for those two moves
Dsmash first hit comes out frame 7 and second hit comes out frame 21

I may be wrong, all this just comes from using frame advance in debug mode

 

[Timid_Panda]

As a noob about to go to their first tourney,
What stages should I be picking/banning???

 

[didds]

As a noob about to go to their first tourney,
What stages should I be picking/banning???

I generally do my best to keep platforms, anything with the high top platform is a nice camping spot for Yoshi, but you may want to be proficient at wavelanding and djc shenanigans or you won't actually be able to utilize the platform. Yoshi honestly does pretty well on any stage and I imagine a lot of it is preference or MU based.

For example, I think I've seen @ hamyojo take roy to green hill zone (correct me if im wrong) which is great for combos and everything, I just personally would ban the stage since I'm more comfortable with platforms for movement mixups and escaping combos.

I've also seen people choose wario ware, but again I'm not a big fan because of the small side blastzones, so I'll pretty much always ban it against swords or early killers in general.

Before your matches just take a second to think about your opponents character:

do they kill of the top? the sides? mainly a gimper?

do they cover a lot of space with their moves? do you need a stage with more breathing room?

do they combo better with or without platforms?

How do they handle pressure? Can you overwhelm them with pressure?

There are lots of things to consider, and a lot of it will come down to what you feel comfortable on, the nice thing is Yoshi has the kill and neutral options that stages don't often hold him down.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Don't let marth go to warioware

 

[AngryPiratehat]

So, yesterday I went to a local tournament with some of my state's biggest names in it and for PM singles I made it to top ten with Yoshi. I thought it was pretty great, unfortunately I got no footage of my matches that I lost but I figured I would come here for some tips.

I lost 2-0 to a wolf player that I know who is extremely vicious; both games came down to last stock but he clearly won both and that set sent me to losers.

Then I got knocked completely out of the tournament when I lost to a Ness main (it was 2-1 so I felt a little better about myself). Does anyone have any tips on fighting those two characters?

I appreciate all feedback!

 

[didds]

So, yesterday I went to a local tournament with some of my state's biggest names in it and for PM singles I made it to top ten with Yoshi. I thought it was pretty great, unfortunately I got no footage of my matches that I lost but I figured I would come here for some tips.

I lost 2-0 to a wolf player that I know who is extremely vicious; both games came down to last stock but he clearly won both and that set sent me to losers.

Then I got knocked completely out of the tournament when I lost to a Ness main (it was 2-1 so I felt a little better about myself). Does anyone have any tips on fighting those two characters?

I appreciate all feedback!

I don't have tons of time so I'll be kind of brief.

First off, good ****, that's good to hear

Second off, wolf will be similar in a lot of ways to fox, as in if he's patient and smart, his neutral will beat yours. I usually rely on fishing for the pivot grab on a bad approach, or trying to eat something with cc, and then get the knock down. Wolf's shine is CC'able so that helps a lot.

Once you get that grab, you just need to work on consistent punishes, always uthrow wolf, especially at early percents and you can basically follow up with anything. For edgeguarding I like to use dash attack to stuff anything not sweet spotted, or just grab ledge with the quick turnaround DJ ledge snap into either a roll up or a rising nair using ledge invincibility. Obviously you should adapt based on your opponents habits. If wolf is at dumb high percent, like 140 or more, uthrow to usmash is probably your easiest kill out of grab. Or uthrow to nair.

I don't know much about ness, but if you get grabbed, always DI forward. Ness's will either try to kill with bthrow, in which case you have survival DI, or dthrow where you'll want to avoid his bair anyway. Don't be afraid to shield against ness, his grab range is poop and pk fire doesnt activate on shield anymore (thank god).

Sorry, I know it wasn't much for now, feel free to ask for more elaboration if there is a certain part of the mu you don't understand.



here's an old match of me playing (not perfect I know), just take a look at

 

[AngryPiratehat]

I don't have tons of time so I'll be kind of brief.

First off, good ****, that's good to hear

Second off, wolf will be similar in a lot of ways to fox, as in if he's patient and smart, his neutral will beat yours. I usually rely on fishing for the pivot grab on a bad approach, or trying to eat something with cc, and then get the knock down. Wolf's shine is CC'able so that helps a lot.

Once you get that grab, you just need to work on consistent punishes, always uthrow wolf, especially at early percents and you can basically follow up with anything. For edgeguarding I like to use dash attack to stuff anything not sweet spotted, or just grab ledge with the quick turnaround DJ ledge snap into either a roll up or a rising nair using ledge invincibility. Obviously you should adapt based on your opponents habits. If wolf is at dumb high percent, like 140 or more, uthrow to usmash is probably your easiest kill out of grab. Or uthrow to nair.

I don't know much about ness, but if you get grabbed, always DI forward. Ness's will either try to kill with bthrow, in which case you have survival DI, or dthrow where you'll want to avoid his bair anyway. Don't be afraid to shield against ness, his grab range is poop and pk fire doesnt activate on shield anymore (thank god).

Sorry, I know it wasn't much for now, feel free to ask for more elaboration if there is a certain part of the mu you don't understand.



here's an old match of me playing (not perfect I know), just take a look at

Thanks so much for the tips, I'll be sure to remember that (I know the wolf rather well and will more than likely be able to practice against him more). The link to your video didn't show up for me, not sure who's end the problem is on but I'd really like to see it!

Cheers!

 

[Ben Prochazka]

Amsa badically tweeted me today "pm Yoshi isnt melee yoshi" (not exact words but close enough)

And honestly I've only watched his melee tech videos...which turned into me being able to do ECE with Yoshi (after a hour or so) https://vine.co/v/OUbEjiaX3Hr

So my question is: who do you recommend to study with either videos or whatever?

I usually sit and watch amass melee videos over and over but I never really see any pm Yoshi players.

Thanks!

 

[didds]

Thanks so much for the tips, I'll be sure to remember that (I know the wolf rather well and will more than likely be able to practice against him more). The link to your video didn't show up for me, not sure who's end the problem is on but I'd really like to see it!

Cheers!

I was gonna include a video, but realized what i wanted to show wasn't in that one, then I forgot to get rid of that statement about it. woops

 

[didds]

Amsa badically tweeted me today "pm Yoshi isnt melee yoshi" (not exact words but close enough)

And honestly I've only watched his melee tech videos...which turned into me being able to do ECE with Yoshi (after a hour or so) https://vine.co/v/OUbEjiaX3Hr

So my question is: who do you recommend to study with either videos or whatever?

I usually sit and watch amass melee videos over and over but I never really see any pm Yoshi players.

Thanks!

Watch hamyojo for PM, he's pretty much your best bet for good recorded footage. Keep watching aMSa too, it's a different game but you can learn a lot from his neutral play, that dude has an amazing understanding of the game.

And he's right, PM yoshi isn't quite the same, but most of melee yoshi's tools still apply, but PM yoshi has more tools on top of that. The main difference is no real parry system to compare to melee's, and the fact that yoshi not only has an out of shield game and grab game, but that they are both superb.

 

[Ben Prochazka]

Watch hamyojo for PM, he's pretty much your best bet for good recorded footage. Keep watching aMSa too, it's a different game but you can learn a lot from his neutral play, that dude has an amazing understanding of the game.

And he's right, PM yoshi isn't quite the same, but most of melee yoshi's tools still apply, but PM yoshi has more tools on top of that. The main difference is no real parry system to compare to melee's, and the fact that yoshi not only has an out of shield game and grab game, but that they are both superb.

Oh yeah stil watching aMSa, so glad he made 5th at apex

 

[AngryPiratehat]

I was gonna include a video, but realized what i wanted to show wasn't in that one, then I forgot to get rid of that statement about it. woops

dang, I really wanted to watch! lol

 

[didds]

dang, I really wanted to watch! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwyr7I9vrnM

lol well here you go. I cringe while watching it, but you can still get some ideas for neutral out of the play.

 

[Scatz]

Watch hamyojo for PM, he's pretty much your best bet for good recorded footage. Keep watching aMSa too, it's a different game but you can learn a lot from his neutral play, that dude has an amazing understanding of the game.

And he's right, PM yoshi isn't quite the same, but most of melee yoshi's tools still apply, but PM yoshi has more tools on top of that. The main difference is no real parry system to compare to melee's, and the fact that yoshi not only has an out of shield game and grab game, but that they are both superb.

That's not all. Rising aerials to add to his edge-guarding game. Everyone here has varying playstyles.

You can take bits and pieces from each to make your own. Just trade information basically.

Also from my experience in fighting Ness, respect his OoS game and grabs. He's not too dangerous if you're spacing properly on his shield (in front of his , but outside his grab range), but poor spacing nets him big damage off Dair, Nair, Bair, and Grabs (if you don't DI forward to SDI the incoming Fair). As for PK Fire, the angles he can send it at is super linear. Bait it out so you can get close then pressure while recognizing dash dance to Dash attack for a quick scoop.

Obv offstage, you either tank the PK Thunder or snipe it.

 

[Timid_Panda]

I main Yoshi, but I want to have a secondary character also.
Does Yoshi have any really bad match ups where I'd want to switch characters?
and if so, then what character should I pick up?

 

[Mumbo]

I main Yoshi, but I want to have a secondary character also.
Does Yoshi have any really bad match ups where I'd want to switch characters?
and if so, then what character should I pick up?

Zelda is Yoshi's worst matchup by a wide margin. I don't, however, think it's so bad that you would need to specifically develop a counterpick. If you already have a secondary that has a good matchup against Zelda, go for it.

The rest of Yoshi's bad matchups are closer to even. If you are comfortable playing Yoshi against Zelda, you will likely be comfortable against the rest of the cast.