Q&A New to Yoshi? (or not) Ask your questions here!

[THE adversary]

What are Yoshi's most hated/difficult matchups, and why?

 

[didds]

What are Yoshi's most hated/difficult matchups, and why?

Yoshi is always going to struggle with strong walls pretty much. Swords can be difficult as can the spacies, minus wolf who doesn't have anything near as effective for walling as falco and fox's bair.

I could see people like Ike, DeDeDe, spacies, roy, ganon, hell maybe even jiggs in a world where jiggs is played, being problematic.

He also can have some trouble with heavy hitters due to the early percent they can hit Yoshi out of his armor.

The good news is, Yoshi doesn't have anything unwinnable and destroys most of these characters as soon as he manages to get in and get something started, or when he gets them off stage.

He also excels a bit more against fast fallers punish wise, but who doesn't really.

Honestly I'm a bit worried about a good jiggs ever appearing, I secretly suspect that it's not the best mu for yoshi, due to reasons why kirby can also be a struggle.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

Yoshi is always going to struggle with strong walls pretty much. Swords can be difficult as can the spacies, minus wolf who doesn't have anything near as effective for walling as falco and fox's bair.

I could see people like Ike, DeDeDe, spacies, roy, ganon, hell maybe even jiggs in a world where jiggs is played, being problematic.

He also can have some trouble with heavy hitters due to the early percent they can hit Yoshi out of his armor.

The good news is, Yoshi doesn't have anything unwinnable and destroys most of these characters as soon as he manages to get in and get something started, or when he gets them off stage.

He also excels a bit more against fast fallers punish wise, but who doesn't really.

Honestly I'm a bit worried about a good jiggs ever appearing, I secretly suspect that it's not the best mu for yoshi, due to reasons why kirby can also be a struggle.

Why is roy problematic? I've never fought a good roy

 

[didds]

Roy has the tools to knock out dj armor fairly early and his fast shffl's can do wonders trying to wall out yoshi, but to be honest that one seems more evenish to me.

 

[Festive]

How would I go about projectile spam? This goes for basically all games I guess..but I notice every time someone does it to me I end up racking up a lot of percent. (Most of these times it's been a Toon Link or just Link). I feel it's hard to escape multiple projectiles and they just end up racking up a ton of damage before doing in with some 1 hit kill move. Any advice for these types of situations?

 

[TomBoComBo]

How would I go about projectile spam? This goes for basically all games I guess..but I notice every time someone does it to me I end up racking up a lot of percent. (Most of these times it's been a Toon Link or just Link). I feel it's hard to escape multiple projectiles and they just end up racking up a ton of damage before doing in with some 1 hit kill move. Any advice for these types of situations?

bob and weave around them and also powershield. Eggroll eats 99% of projectiles if you roll off a platform and the projectile hits in mid-air

 

[didds]

How would I go about projectile spam? This goes for basically all games I guess..but I notice every time someone does it to me I end up racking up a lot of percent. (Most of these times it's been a Toon Link or just Link). I feel it's hard to escape multiple projectiles and they just end up racking up a ton of damage before doing in with some 1 hit kill move. Any advice for these types of situations?

to add to this, once you're proficient with djc aerials, yoshi becomes one of the best platform campers in the game.
Be smart with your stage striking so you never are forced to bull doze through.

 

[THE adversary]

I'm going to my first tournament this week, how do I handle footstools against my recovery?

 

[TomBoComBo]

I'm going to my first tournament this week, how do I handle footstools against my recovery?

Be aware of when the opponent wants to footstool you and try to keep yourself away from them. (recover outward then in with an eggroll)
or if you're high enough, you can just Uair them or eggroll and they get hit or bounce off.
If your opponent is footstool heavy, don't be too careless about ECEs or double jumping from ledge, since they can camp it and footstool you the moment you let go.

 

[pugwishbone17]

How can I take full advantage of the few frames of invulnerability during the part of egg lay where Yoshi looks prego?

 

[TomBoComBo]

How can I take full advantage of the few frames of invulnerability during the part of egg lay where Yoshi looks prego?

Those frames can be used to ignore projectiles, like when samus platform cancels missiles. Other than that, I think it could be used in teams somehow but I have much less experience in that.

 

[pugwishbone17]

gr8. Now for my next question, can you make a check list of every move in the game that Yoshi can low profile from point blank with the charge animation of his up and forward smash?

 

[TomBoComBo]

gr8. Now for my next question, can you make a check list of every move in the game that Yoshi can low profile from point blank with the charge animation of his up and forward smash?

I'm slightly confused about this question, if you mean low profiling as just changing where your hitboxes are, then that is all about spacing. The list would contain literally every move within the range of a tipped Yoshi smash because you can outspace it ever so slightly with that animation

 

[THE adversary]

isn't yoshi's head invincible during the actual attack too?

 

[TomBoComBo]

isn't yoshi's head invincible during the actual attack too?

No, it's just a large hitbox. that is ever so slightly disjointed. So it can clank or beat out a lot of ground moves and can beat non-disjointed aerials. (or aerials that have less of a disjoint than Fsmash or Usmash)

 

[Turkzee]

So I've heard a lot of people talk about how Yoshi (among other characters) is under utilized currently. Is this mostly general DJC applications, movement, and grab parry, and fundamentals or are there any moves that stick out to you guys?

 

[THE adversary]

No, it's just a large hitbox. that is ever so slightly disjointed. So it can clank or beat out a lot of ground moves and can beat non-disjointed aerials. (or aerials that have less of a disjoint than Fsmash or Usmash)

My bad, you're right, I was searching for proof but instead I found out that I was wrong.
Along the way I found some GIFs of 3.02 Yoshi's hitboxes on Imgur: http://imgur.com/a/6BgYY#11

EDIT: For those concerned about the wonky hurtboxes on Uair and Bair,to quote EternalYoshi on Reddit:
"Yoshi's tail hurtboxes stretch with the tail and the hitboxes themselves. You're getting grabbed by the stretchy tail in those scenarios. Reminds me of Brawl with ROB's ftilt and how Snake was able to utilt ROB from farther than usual because his arms have hurtboxes.

Anyway, that glitchy hurtbox you see is the fault of Brawlbox; Yoshi's tail hurtbox doesn't do that in game. The team made sure to build Yoshi's tail hitbox sizes and locations to properly cover the tail itself better than Melee or Brawl's hitboxes, and it does so fine, as you'll be able to see when we release the next revision with our in game debug mode.

As for the Parry, the problem here isn't the parry itself. In Melee, when a hitbox clashes with an invincible collision(Green, not blue in Melee's debug display), the hitbox cannot hit the character the green collision belongs to again. In this game, it can, and it's why the parry fails. Frustrating I know. 'Tis an artifact from Brawl and has been reported to our coders.

I WILL say that Yoshi's feet don't have extruding hurtboxes in this game like he does in Melee effectively making his kick based attacks safer, so there's that.

I believe Yoshi, despite those serious issues, is secretly amazing and can wreck face. He's definitely a character that demands respect."

 

[TomBoComBo]

So I've heard a lot of people talk about how Yoshi (among other characters) is under utilized currently. Is this mostly general DJC applications, movement, and grab parry, and fundamentals or are there any moves that stick out to you guys?

for me, it's really how all of this adds together to make an incredibly diverse character. Yoshi can be played in any form in any mentality. His punish game is ********, his grab game is godlike, and he has so many options that other characters simply don't have. People are forced to play different vs Yoshi and that alone gives you a significant advantage

 

[ToastMiller]

what tools does Ness have that can beat out a Yoshi, and what options does Yoshi have that I need to be aware of and avoid?

 

[Damp]

I'd say ZSS is another character that would be good to have a secondary for. Maybe it's just because I play against Numerics, but I find that ZSS is a really tough matchup.

 

[D e l t a]

I mostly cringe because I'm at that point in my smash career where I have the fundamentals, but lack optimization with punishes and don't always play the neutral in the safest way, so when I watch these videos I can pick out the points where I could have done a lot more. For example, there are times I get the pop up and begin juggling, then rather then extend the combo to the point where I could feasibly kill someone outright, I end it early with an easy nair or something like that.

The goal of every player should be getting to the point where you don't really need people to tell you your mistakes, where you can analyze your own play and pinpoint what you need to work on.

While I agree with the point you are trying to make here, I have to disagree on certain areas. You can always get advice from other players on your gameplay,no matter what level you are at. Obviously punishes and optimizing your character to the highest level is what we all strive for as competitive players, but there are certain options and ways to optimize a character that people are still finding out.

A number of players are not always the best at analyzing others as well. This is a separate trait that is not directly correlated to being a top player, as you'll see multiple top players have coaches by their side. For instance, Mango stated in one of his streams that he is not the best at analyzing others, whereas PPMD sits down and takes full notes on a player. Without notes and prior analysis, Mango says he is better at playing and adapting in-game, whereas PPMD reads up on his mistakes and how to capitalize on his opponents he's studied. Analyzing players is a skill, just as learning to punish better is.

 

[Zylix]

I picked up Yoshi in Brawl but recently got into PM and the transition is a bit awkward. Firstly, can Yoshi still Jump-Cancel Egg Toss to get a backwards sliding egg toss? Can he still Dragonic Reverse (would wavedashing down give the same effect)? I haven't been able to pull off either but it might just be a timing change.

Also, a bit of a broad question but how should your mindset change from playing him in Brawl to PM (if it should change at all)? i.e how do the physics/character differences change his meta-game?

Thanks!

 

[D e l t a]

I picked up Yoshi in Brawl but recently got into PM and the transition is a bit awkward. Firstly, can Yoshi still Jump-Cancel Egg Toss to get a backwards sliding egg toss? Can he still Dragonic Reverse (would wavedashing down give the same effect)? I haven't been able to pull off either but it might just be a timing change.

Also, a bit of a broad question but how should your mindset change from playing him in Brawl to PM (if it should change at all)? i.e how do the physics/character differences change his meta-game?

Thanks!

Hmm, not sure what dragonic reverse is. All Brawl tech with exclusion of a few character specific techs have transferred to PM. Yoshi can perform running UpB and snap to ledge, shoot UpB cancelled eggs from the ledge (look up any video by aMSa and you'll see him do this at least once per set), and in general performs the same. In PM, he has a better Ftilt & Utilt than previous game titles, SideB aka EggRoll is actually viable now, and combos are very similar to Melee. Hitboxes have been re-adjusted and are either the same or larger than Melee Yoshi. Also, Yoshi's grab game is better, if not one of the best grab games in Project M. Saved the best change for last, HE CAN JUMP OUT OF SHIELD. DJC NAIR OOS IS GODLIKE. WD OoS is possible as well as literally any move. If you double jump fast enough, he will actually land for about 1-2 frames in which any ground move can be performed, ie Tilts, grounded DownB aka GroundPound which can pop opponents close enough up and kill around 90-100%, and anything else you can think of. If you regular jump, any aerial / special / jump cancelled move (Upsmash/grab) can be used, as with every character.

He is essentially Melee Yoshi with Brawl tech. The "mindset" of playing Yoshi does not necessarily change from Brawl to PM, rather, the way the character can play is changed. His moveset and the PM / Melee based engine allows for an aggro Yoshi as well as those who would rather sit back and camp with eggs and spaced out moves. His potential definitely is boosted from all previous titles and he has very good options to select from. My friend Railz played a super aggro Yoshi in Brawl which transferred into PM. A number of Yoshi's in Melee such as Hamyojo or aMSa are actually more defensive and wait for openings to strike. In PM, they play the same way.

The beauty of Project M is that you can virtually play any character however you wish. The main difference is that you now have a more balanced character with multiple options that were not in previous Smash games.

 

[Scatz]

Dragonic Reverse is Brawl's method of DJL. The only difference is that you don't need to use an attack to get back on the ground. Be aware that his UpB does not have the hops anymore, and he is able to change from a DJC to a Rising aerial by holding the jump button in the initial frames of his DJ.

Edit: Whoops! Forgot to tell you that DR isn't are useful for movement since he can crouch cancel his running animation.

 

[Zylix]

Saved the best change for last, HE CAN JUMP OUT OF SHIELD. DJC NAIR OOS IS GODLIKE. WD OoS is possible as well as literally any move. If you double jump fast enough, he will actually land for about 1-2 frames in which any ground move can be performed, ie Tilts, grounded DownB aka GroundPound which can pop opponents close enough up and kill around 90-100%, and anything else you can think of. If you regular jump, any aerial / special / jump cancelled move (Upsmash/grab) can be used, as with every character.

So rapidly double jumping will give him a 1-2 frame window where he can do a ground move and then continue rising into the air? Or does performing the ground attack negate his DJ completely like a wavedash? If that's the case, why bother double jumping instead of just standing and doing it (unless you're thinking of using the DJC to stop a run/dash animation or shave off some OOS lag)? "DJC NAIR OOS IS GODLIKE" What's the reason to do a second jump just to cancel it with a nair? Why not just do a short hop/rising nair?

Scatz, is DJL just landing immediately after a DJ sorta like a DR? How does crouch canceling work and what is the result of a successful execution?

Overall I'm finding PM quite nicely balanced with characters like Yoshi, Link and DK being much more viable (but not necessarily easier) whereas in Brawl it seemed like you had to be Zudenka or Bigman to make Yoshi shine

 

[Scatz]

For DJL, that is correct. It's exactly like DR, but only to stop moving or be in standing animation from jumping out of shield. DR had a bigger window, which allowed sliding, but DJL just grounds Yoshi in the spot he performed it at.

CCing during a running animation stops him from going into a slide or run-stop animation, allowing for quicker options. In Brawl, you would either have to wait until your dash was finished or DR it to be able to use moves like D-tilt and F-smash, but in PM, you can achieve that same thing by just tapping down on your analog stick. CCing even allows you to "tank" moves and counter quickly or reduce the knockback of a vertical kill move , which was not available in Brawl.

PM is still young since it hasn't had it's final revision yet. I'm sure once the metagame can truly grow, we'll start to see some of those characters that need more effort than the rest (there's a few of them right now lol) to get the W.

Btw, I'm Bigman.

 

[D e l t a]

So rapidly double jumping will give him a 1-2 frame window where he can do a ground move and then continue rising into the air? Or does performing the ground attack negate his DJ completely like a wavedash? If that's the case, why bother double jumping instead of just standing and doing it (unless you're thinking of using the DJC to stop a run/dash animation or shave off some OOS lag)? "DJC NAIR OOS IS GODLIKE" What's the reason to do a second jump just to cancel it with a nair? Why not just do a short hop/rising nair?

I'll see if I can get a recording off my phone to show what I mean, since I don't have a PM ISO.

The reason to use this technique is purely OoS. Any other reason and it's a basically a waste of frames / jumps as you could perform the attack normally. I'm not sure of the exact frame window, only the fact that it is extremely tight on timing even for myself. I'm a lab monster so I play around with every character and try to replicate any and all tech I see / know of. I have found that I can perform DJL DownB with tap jump about 2-3/10 times (hitting jump button, then tap jump and immediately slamming down and pressing B). When double tapping the jump button, I only get the DJL DownB 1/10 times. Wavedash has about 10 frames of end lag last I remember, using the method I'm describing takes considerably less frames.

By "ground attacks," I mean all of his tilts, jabs, and specials with different properties on the ground, which is basically just his DownB. These are only performed on the ground and cannot rise with his jump. Rather, you are cancelling the part of his double jump where Yoshi dips down into a ground attack.

DJC Nair OoS means that Yoshi can be on the ground way faster than a regular Nair OoS. He does not have to wait for the apex of his short hop in order to fast fall because of double jump cancel properties. Say for example the opponent is pressuring your shield and you use a Nair OoS. If they are at low%, they can CC your SH Nair and continue going to pressure you, only now you are in the air and susceptible to juggles. Since Nair has a decent amount of end lag and there's also the time to fast fall + landing lag, Yoshi is in a tight predicament now. If you DJC your Nair, you are on the ground and in a better position as they will now be attempting to approach you again, rather than being able to get a free hit on you in the air, at which point you can thwart their approach with any of Yoshi's great defensive options.

 

[Zylix]

I could get DJL maybe 4/10 by tapping the Y then hitting R (which I have set to jump) but i'm not sure it seems super useful. CCing on the other hand, that's a goody! I got a double kill by running in, CCing and DSmashing. Is it Yoshi specific? My roommate plays Ivysaur and couldn't do it.

DJC Nair OoS means that Yoshi can be on the ground way faster than a regular Nair OoS.

I am officially converted! That DJC Nair is RIDICULOUS OoS! Way faster than any other option included shield grabbing, and Yoshi's Nair can get kills in the 80-90 range EASY. Is it just me, or does Yoshi seem broken in PM?

Although it does seem like moves are harder to get out. It feels like you've always got hitstuns, end lag, land lag etc stopping you from doing moves. In Brawl if Yoshi got hit in the air he could Nair almost immediately after! Perfect for punishing jabs with low knockback. In PM it's harder to get out moves right when you need them? Is that just Yoshi or the PM engine? But then you see people like aMSa who can whip out ungodly DPS combos!

 

[Zylix]

Btw, I'm Bigman.

Why the second account? :D It's inspiring to see you're still hard at work raising an army of Yoshi mains!! *Sniffle* It seems like just yesterday you were teaching all the youngins (myself included) how to do the YBC method of DR!

 

[D e l t a]

I could get DJL maybe 4/10 by tapping the Y then hitting R (which I have set to jump) but i'm not sure it seems super useful. CCing on the other hand, that's a goody! I got a double kill by running in, CCing and DSmashing. Is it Yoshi specific? My roommate plays Ivysaur and couldn't do it.

I am officially converted! That DJC Nair is RIDICULOUS OoS! Way faster than any other option included shield grabbing, and Yoshi's Nair can get kills in the 80-90 range EASY.

Unfortunately the tech is very hard to pull off so it's not as applicable in high pressure situations as a Nair OoS per say, but it's still an option that you have available if you attain the higher levels of tech skill with Yoshi. I'd say DJC/DJL DownB OoS is among the hardest tech I know of, and I play mostly spacies & Lucas haha.

Cancelling your running animation into a downsmash is a thing. You can actually cancel your running animation into any attack- tilts, smashes, jabs, etc. Run -> cancel by holding down -> Dtilt / Dsmash are the most common moves players use, similar to how many people do CC Dsmash when they first start playing Melee/PM because it only requires holding down and hitting A or the C stick. Your roommate is probably bad

Is it just me, or does Yoshi seem broken in PM?

No. Just...no.

Although it does seem like moves are harder to get out. It feels like you've always got hitstuns, end lag, land lag etc stopping you from doing moves. In Brawl if Yoshi got hit in the air he could Nair almost immediately after! Perfect for punishing jabs with low knockback. In PM it's harder to get out moves right when you need them? Is that just Yoshi or the PM engine? But then you see people like aMSa who can whip out ungodly DPS combos!

Hitstun was amplified to match Melee and allow for combos, which is how aMSa pulls off those nasty hit strings. This is why you can't Nair immediately after getting hit, and you must be out of tumble animation to air dodge, which you only get to use 1 in the air and can be aimed in any direction. Jabs can still be punished if you are on the ground and get hit with them at low %. This is the effect of crouch cancelling- you take approximately 1/3 of the move's knockback, which is also affected by weight and fall speed (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Yoshi's CC is very good as he is very heavy and has a fast Nair, Dtilt, and Dsmash that can be used while CC'ing moves. If the opponent isn't careful, they could end up getting hit with one of these moves.

End lag was even worse in Brawl on most all moves, save for 95% of Metaknight and a select few other's movesets- primarily the top tier characters. In PM, the moves have been fairly balanced and light hits end fairly quick, heavier hits take a little bit to come out and usually have a bit of end lag. Landing lag is 4 frames from air to ground. The lag from an aerial is specific to each character. Either the move ends in the air or you can land and press a shield button to "L cancel" some of the end lag. This was a technique found in N64 as well.

 

[Zylix]

Your roommate is probably bad

Haha well there's that, but it seemed like his character had to finish the sliding/end run animation before beginning the crouch animation whereas I was able to cancel a run with a crouch

This is the effect of crouch cancelling- you take approximately 1/3 of the move's knockback, which is also affected by weight and fall speed (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Yoshi's CC is very good as he is very heavy and has a fast Nair, Dtilt, and Dsmash that can be used while CC'ing moves. If the opponent isn't careful, they could end up getting hit with one of these moves.

This is most likely a noob question but are you talking about doing something with crouch when getting hit? Like if someone hits you while you're crouching do you take 1/3 the knockback and can attack again faster? Teach me your lab-monster secrets!!

 

[Sylnic]

Has anyone found any characters to edgeguard with down-B? I've been trying to experiment with it, though the timing has been hard and I've killed myself a few times already because my opponent got to the edge first. I'm thinking it could work well on Ike, and maybe a low recovering DK. Who else does this work with?

 

[Mumbo]

lol

from my experience its not useful on anyone

 

[Scatz]

Why the second account? :D It's inspiring to see you're still hard at work raising an army of Yoshi mains!! *Sniffle* It seems like just yesterday you were teaching all the youngins (myself included) how to do the YBC method of DR!

Lol, I stopped using Bigman as my name in the smashworld. Although everything else has the name, I chose to go with Scatz, since it's what I go by typically. I try to help others, but this time, I'm going in more for myself. I didn't truly get to the level of play that I wanted, and I want to change that.

Haha well there's that, but it seemed like his character had to finish the sliding/end run animation before beginning the crouch animation whereas I was able to cancel a run with a crouch

Dash (not running) lengths are different for each character. Some characters are able to go into the running animation quicker, which allows for quicker crouch cancels.

This is most likely a noob question but are you talking about doing something with crouch when getting hit? Like if someone hits you while you're crouching do you take 1/3 the knockback and can attack again faster? Teach me your lab-monster secrets!!

I'd advise on reading up how Melee's engine works. It'll help you understand the differences between Brawl and Melee/PM.

About the DJL, you could always change your input methods. I can use Tap Jump + C-stick Down to get it practically every time, but it isn't practical for me since I always try to buffer out of shieldstun a little too early. To get around that, I use C-stick up + Y cause I can claw. It's a moderate-hard tech depending on your methods and how you're trying to use it.

Has anyone found any characters to edgeguard with down-B? I've been trying to experiment with it, though the timing has been hard and I've killed myself a few times already because my opponent got to the edge first. I'm thinking it could work well on Ike, and maybe a low recovering DK. Who else does this work with?

With the stars? Or just hit in general? I've seen aMSa do egg edgeguards to force an angle where he can Down-B the ledge and kill his opponent. Outside of that, there's not many uses for Down-B. Oh, you could probably do the jank Down-B where he doesn't face the ledge and can still grab it. The hitbox lasts a little longer when done that way.

 

[D e l t a]

DownB to the ledge is only good to start up your egg stall ledge guards. If you're precise on spacing you can grounded DownB onto the ledge from the stage and start throwing them eggs. The actual stars can be used like Mumbo showed, but overall the hitbox & priority of Yoshi's DownB is not that great. Almost any move beats it when Yoshi is above the opponent.

..maybe against low priority / weird hit boxes like Ike's UpB if he angles on the stage, Kirbys's UpB how it doesn't have full vertical coverage of his head at the apex of Final Cutter, Squirtle's UpB where the hurtbox is behind the waterfall and the hitbox is tiny until the splash sound?

Overall, I'd say UpB eggs on/off stage, down tilt/smash, Bair sometimes and Nair most times to ledge guard. Stick to guarantees. No need to be flashy.

 

[Zylix]

I try to help others, but this time, I'm going in more for myself. I didn't truly get to the level of play that I wanted, and I want to change that.

We're all here to get better, but it seems easier when you have people above you helping you out

I'd advise on reading up how Melee's engine works. It'll help you understand the differences between Brawl and Melee/PM.

I'll definitely see what I can find! Any forums/articles/videos that you can think of would be way helpful!

Stick to guarantees. No need to be flashy.

Why do you think I learn AT's in the first place

 

[D e l t a]

This is most likely a noob question but are you talking about doing something with crouch when getting hit? Like if someone hits you while you're crouching do you take 1/3 the knockback and can attack again faster?

Precisely. The knockback is lessened while crouching. If you're doing an attack and are interrupted before the animation finishes on your own, you can potentially do another attack, shield, etc. Crouch canceling can get really in depth, but for now know this: if you CC an attack and aren't knocked down or away, you can punish the opponent only to the point of the enemy's move end lag.

Check out this article: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Crouch_cancel

Say both my opponent and I are at very low % and I get knocked down. I do a getup attack on my enemy, he CCs it and Fsmashes me. I'm CCing the Fsmash and I can potentially punish that if I'm fast enough and I don't get knocked away

Or

At the beginning of the match my opponent wants to start with a jab into a combo. I CC the jab and use a fast attack that stops him before he can followup

tl;dr The more you play, the more you'll find what you can do with CC moves and when CC works. Protip: Yoshi's CC is extremely good

 

[D e l t a]

Teach me your lab-monster secrets!!

I honestly watch videos on YouTube and replicate the tech I see for the most part. About 1/8 of my knowledge comes from in-person tournaments and playing. Another part comes from messing around with all moves and characters. I read thru Smashboards articles and theory craft a lot. I know more about gameplay than most top players do because of all this. You just have to look around and read up on the game, play with the top players in your area, watch the best of the best, etc.

Mango once said something around the lines of: you can only teach 90% of the game. The other 10% is pure instinct and is up to the player.

 

[Scatz]

We're all here to get better, but it seems easier when you have people above you helping you out



I'll definitely see what I can find! Any forums/articles/videos that you can think of would be way helpful!

Lucky that I have probably the best thread bookmarked

http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-ssbm-compendium-of-knowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/

Yeah, it always helps having some advice from better players. I've learned most of this game from reading and learning on my own though. I feel that improvement highly depends on how easily things can be interpreted, and how you practice.

 

[Zylix]

You just have to look around and read up on the game, play with the top players in your area, watch the best of the best, etc.

Mango once said something around the lines of: you can only teach 90% of the game. The other 10% is pure instinct and is up to the player.

I wish I knew real players in my area! One of my roommates is about my level but he's purely instinctive - he's never bothered to learn the mechanics but me just knowing techs doesn't make me automatically better and he still crushes me half the time (I still have nightmares about snake's disjointed tilts, and he doesn't even know what disjointed means haha). Ever since we switched to PM however, it's been a different story

Say both my opponent and I are at very low % and I get knocked down. I do a getup attack on my enemy, he CCs it and Fsmashes me. I'm CCing the Fsmash and I can potentially punish that if I'm fast enough and I don't get knocked away

Or

At the beginning of the match my opponent wants to start with a jab into a combo. I CC the jab and use a fast attack that stops him before he can followup

tl;dr The more you play, the more you'll find what you can do with CC moves and when CC works. Protip: Yoshi's CC is extremely good

I can see the implementation but is seems like in the heat of battle it's so much more instinctive for me to shield or spot dodge. How do you learn when and where to bring CC into your playstyle? Also, what about Yoshi's CC is better than normal? Just speed or potency?

Lucky that I have probably the best thread bookmarked


Yeah, it always helps having some advice from better players. I've learned most of this game from reading and learning on my own though. I feel that improvement highly depends on how easily things can be interpreted, and how you practice.

Don't mind if I bookmark that myself :D.

I used to think Smash was such a casual game compared to games like Dead or Alive but then I started snooping around on smashboards and became obsessed with how deep it is! That being said, I've discovered nothing for myself. I've just learned the discoveries of those before me! Much thanks to you all