New stageset proposal

[Moooose]

What would you guys think of a stageset with
Yoshis, Dreamland, and Battlefield as the only 3 neutrals
and FD/FoD as the counterpicks?

 

[Youngling]

YES. Personally though I'd get rid of FoD and FD but I know no one would ever agree

 

[Divinokage]

It doesn't really make much difference as most matches don't even start on FD or FoD first game since you have the ability to strike and have more freedom with the picks. I don't think there's a need to change this system.

 

[Rostigalen]

Why make it smaller?

 

[Bones0]

I strike to FoD all the time, but I agree that the change would be mostly pointless and only serve people who are biased against FoD and FD either because they think they are "dumb" or "cheap" or w/e. I think we should stick with the current ruleset for at least a year. We've made a lot of changes in quite a short period of time, so we should wait to see how it plays out. Personally, I think PS is unfit for competitive play, but I just don't think now is a good time to be trying to get rid of it. We should just use the MBR Rule Set for a year and then for next year's rule set we can see how we feel about getting rid of PS.

 

[S l o X]

+1 for this stage list.

 

[Moooose]

i personally like ps but i know alot of people don't.
i think fd and fod affect matchups enough to be "counterpick" stages.
and yoshis, battlefield, dreamland leaves one small, one medium, and one big stage.

 

[Divinokage]

I strike to FoD all the time, but I agree that the change would be mostly pointless and only serve people who are biased against FoD and FD either because they think they are "dumb" or "cheap" or w/e. I think we should stick with the current ruleset for at least a year. We've made a lot of changes in quite a short period of time, so we should wait to see how it plays out. Personally, I think PS is unfit for competitive play, but I just don't think now is a good time to be trying to get rid of it. We should just use the MBR Rule Set for a year and then for next year's rule set we can see how we feel about getting rid of PS.

You play Falco, =) And well you'd never be able to choose FoD or FD if you play a Falcon/Ganon usually. What I mean is, with the striking system, both players have equal control to eliminate the stages they don't want so it's fine.

 

[Bones0]

Trying to artificially control matchups is both stupid and futile.

It's also quite circular. You're saying matchups on FoD and FD are skewed... based on the matchups for other stages. I could just as easily say that FoD and FD best represent how matchups play, and the other stages skew matchups.

 

[Divinokage]

It's more based on player preference rather than matchups.

 

[Bones0]

That was in response to Moose.

I agree with you that striking does a great job of controlling the stage for game 1, and that most stage choices are player preference, not inherently better or anything.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh alright, I wasn't sure. =P

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

How the hell does FoD affect matchups as much as Dreamland or Yoshis? Fountain is the 2nd most balanced stage in the game, after battlefield.

 

[Moooose]

yea fod could probably be swapped with yoshis. i just dont like having fd as a neutral

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, but that's cause you play a character that gets tooled out super hard on FD. Every character has a stage they wish wasn't neutral. That's why we leave them all on neutral and let players strike.

 

[RFrizzle]

I really would not like to see less variety in stages. I don't see any problems with the current list, I think it'd be better to add more and have more bans.

 

[Beat!]

YS/BF/DL (without CPs) would be an absolutely fantastic stage list, and this one is almost as good. That being said, the current stage list is fine, and I don't think it's really necessary to reduce it further. The people in favour of bigger stage lists would probably appreciate it if they could keep a few stages at least. But yeah, I'd be super happy if this became the standard.

 

[Renth]

I would love to see MORE stages.

Brinstar/Mute city are great. There's a reason why they are called counter picks, a stage to give you an advantage in a match up and there's this really cool ban system included in the picking process. Less stages, less fun.

This game is soon enough is going to literally be FD only.

 

[iffy525]

I would love to see MORE stages.

Brinstar/Mute city are great. There's a reason why they are called counter picks, a stage to give you an advantage in a match up and there's this really cool ban system included in the picking process. Less stages, less fun.

This game is soon enough is going to literally be FD BF only.

Fixed that for you

 

[S l o X]

Yeah, but that's cause you play a character that gets tooled out super hard on FD. Every character has a stage they wish wasn't neutral. That's why we leave them all on neutral and let players strike.

falco ***** everyone on fd what you talking about willis

 

[RFrizzle]

falco ***** everyone on fd what you talking about willis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYFjtDPSbdw&feature=player_detailpage#t=376s

 

[Xyzz]

[...]Personally, I think PS is unfit for competitive play, but I just don't think now is a good time to be trying to get rid of it. We should just use the MBR Rule Set for a year and then for next year's rule set we can see how we feel about getting rid of PS.

I begin to like you more and more :D

 

[Hax]

+1 only because its one step closer to battlefield only

yoshis is just as ****ed up as FoD/PS though, if not worse

DL64 is fine but you need an odd # of stages, and the .000001% more fun you have playing on a different stage isnt worth having yoshis legal

and if it matters, battlefield gives melee the most aesthetic appeal imo. i'd much rather a neutral themed stage be the standard than have the game be kirby-themed a good amount of the time. plus both BF songs have aged extremely well, unlike the DL64 song which is kind of annoying at this point

 

[Construct]

I would love to see MORE stages.

Brinstar/Mute city are great. There's a reason why they are called counter picks, a stage to give you an advantage in a match up and there's this really cool ban system included in the picking process. Less stages, less fun.

This game is soon enough is going to literally be FD BF only.

This. The current stagelist is fine. Of course spacie players want FD banned, and of course Marth or whoever want to keep it. The stagelist serves all characters well enough, and the strike system allows both players to input on where the match will take place.

Personally, I would want MORE stages, particularly mute city/brinstar/stadium. BF only is the single quickest way to kill Melee I can think of off the top of my head.

tl;dr stagelist is fine

 

[leffen]

The stagelist is fine

everybody who thinks YS is more fair than FoD are dumb and/or biased


BF only is nice, but boring

If BF was BF from brawl (with ok ledges) I'd be all for BF only

 

[Moooose]

i'm not saying this should be the new standard ruleset
just something to try at your tournaments
see if people like it

i personally like YS over FoD only because it allows for walljump shenanigans and no other legal stage does as much.

 

[Bones0]

So by consensus of this thread, reasons to ban stages include:
- I don't like the music
- Looks too kiddy
- Can't walljump repeatedly

k

 

[Moooose]

lol its not like im trying to get stages banned, or suggesting this should be the standard.
i'm throwing out a ruleset that i think would be interesting to play with.

 

[Hax]

i have an interesting proposition. it seems like a lot of you value stage diversity a lot more than i do and this proposition respects that:

current stagelist is in effect until top 8 of a national, during top 8 its battlefield only

at locals/smaller tournies its the current stagelist all the way

i would really really hope that high caliber players are in agreement with me that once the tournament reaches that point and the stakes are high, Randall popping out of Yoshi's and saving someone is ****ing bull****. at that point, it's extremely reasonable to forgo a little bit of diversity in order to play the game with as little jank as possible

So by consensus of this thread, reasons to ban stages include:
- I don't like the music
- Looks too kiddy
- Can't walljump repeatedly

k

i mentioned BF's aesthetic appeal last and even put a disclaimer before it saying that this positive aspect doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever/hardly matters but yeah lets act like it was the core reason i support Battlefield. smartass

it's actually a pretty damn good point now that i think about it though. professional looking/sounding game = more appealing to outsiders

 

[Construct]

I've heard arguments that since Randall is on a static timer, he's only as BS as the battlefield edges are since they're both constants in terms of jank. Plus, it's not like you can't use Randall tactically. Look at the recent SR sets between PP and Armada, Armada Peach bomber stalls until the cloud shows up in what's a fairly brilliant recovery gimmick.

This would have been more relevant a little bit ago, but it took longer than I expected to make:

[COLLAPSE="BF Only"]

So by consensus of this thread, reasons to ban stages include:
- I don't like the music
- Looks too kiddy
- Can't walljump repeatedly

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Stylez]

I've heard this topic brought up before and it's always these same three stages.

Maybe i'm missing something. Does banning stages for tournament play, and then allowing players to strike certain "legal" stages (rather than declaring them non-neutral from the beginning) make sense? One or the other, people.

YS/BF/DL should be the only neutral stages. Counterpicks allow for enough diversity

 

[DerfMidWest]

I play friendlies this way.
Those 3 stages, random everytime (no strikes)

I just personally dislike FoD, and I think FD is more MU changing than PS is.

 

[Youngling]

I think counter picking is the dumbest thing this community has ever thought of. Why can a stage not be legal game 1 but then becomes legal after?

 

[DerfMidWest]

I actually agree with that statement.
I would not be opposed to the 3 stage list being standard.

 

[JPOBS]

FoD only imo.

 

[Varist]

get the **** out our stagelist is fine jesus fd is ****ing fun and cool with the aesthetic and **** and it's a piece of god damn smash history better not ban it **** you

 

[ShroudedOne]

One question: How does Yoshi's skew matchups? I think that the only stage that really skews MUs to the point to where it could be considered as a counterpick is FD...but what is the issue everyone has with Yoshi's?

For the record, FoD is a stupid stage, but probably the fairest/best designed stage in the game, aside from Battlefield, I guess (imo).

Also, I would assume that at top level, players know how to handle someone being saved by Randall and lessen those chances/kill them anyways. There were examples of this at SR with Peepee vs Armada.

Also, Stadium alters matchups just as much as FD. To think otherwise is pretty biased.

 

[Prince_Abu]

bf only is dumb because i always get battle fielded so i vote we permaban battlefield and play on mushroom kingdom 2

 

[Bones0]

I've heard arguments that since Randall is on a static timer, he's only as BS as the battlefield edges are since they're both constants in terms of jank. Plus, it's not like you can't use Randall tactically. Look at the recent SR sets between PP and Armada, Armada Peach bomber stalls until the cloud shows up in what's a fairly brilliant recovery gimmick.

This would have been more relevant a little bit ago, but it took longer than I expected to make:

[COLLAPSE="BF Only"]

[/COLLAPSE]

This might actually make sense if I were the one arguing with those reasons...

 

[DerfMidWest]

battlefield ledges aren't constantly jank.
they are the most annoying part of the stage, but other than that, the stage is 100% fair.
I often feel like Yoshi's is too small and it definitely messes with the floaties, but that is balanced by dreamland.

so yea, I feel like just having these three legal its a lot more balanced.
And I don't really like the counter pick stages method.

of course, with only three stages, there would have to be no bans after the initial stage striking.

you could argue that we already have too few stages, but its about fairness and tournament viability, not about fun (although these are my three favorite stages, so its still fun for me )