New Smash Bros for WiiU

[---]

Hey, would a system like Baroque combos or Mega Crashes work for Smash?

 

[Thino]

Hey, would a system like Baroque combos or Mega Crashes work for Smash?

if they increase the hitstun, yes

 

[Big-Cat]

Hey, would a system like Baroque combos or Mega Crashes work for Smash?

I could easily see that being the case, but only if we started to have chain combos. Otherwise, I find it difficult to see implemented even in a Melee-esque environment.

 

[---]

Oh well just a thought.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Shorts]

I brought this up last night, and there are more poepl around now, so I'll bring it up again.

How would you like it if instead of "Assist Trophies" we got assist characters? Where the character you pick gives you a fifth special? Sort of like MvC, the character pops out, and does an attack?

I guess it could be done in one of two ways. One way, you pick that character at the beginig of the match, and you have them throughout the rest of the game. Another way would be, you get an assist trophy during battle, and you can use this assist charactereither for a set number of uses, or until you die or something?

I myself am not too sold on the idea, but I thought I would just throw it out there. I just feel like the assist trophies are just Pokeballs. I want them to act differently.

 

[Big-Cat]

I guess I'll reopen the topic on this potential control setup. It's a revamp so prepare yourself and keep an open mind.

Looking at Smash on the GC controller, we've got a lot of extra buttons that do the same function. For the most part, these buttons are just macros for other inputs (i.e. jump and grab). So, why add some new functionality to these buttons? While we're at, why not increase the number of moves to allow more diversity?

So, let's do a quick comparison between BlazBlue and Smash. BlazBlue has each character with at least 13 ground normals, and 3 aerials, with Drive attacks being a separate animal due to them being character specific and specials have no specified count. Smash, on the other hand, has only 7 (9 if you count AA and AAA) ground normals, but has five aerials and is forced to have only four specials. In comparison, it seems Smash is for the most part lacking in the ground normals department. This is why I suggest this:

We have light, medium, and heavy attacks, following a similar structure to BlazBlue's ground normals. We can actually map pre-existing attacks to this without too much difficulty. Anyway, these attacks would be assigned to A, X, and Y respectively. So where does this leave aerials? Two of the aerials would be mapped to A and X while the spike/meteor Smash move is put onto Y along with some other move (for the sake of symmetry). Speaking of which, every character would have a tripping move with down-forward Y on the ground being the input. When it comes to jumping, the input has now been left to the control stick. It'll be a hard adjustment, but it's doable.

Specials now have three versions available to them with the assignments of B+ATK. These will give you different versions of that special. Alternatively, this can give you access to alternating specials. For example, Samus could do Power Beam, Wave Beam, or Ice Beam with B+ATK depending on the input.

That's just it for the attacks, I can bring back old ideas if anyone is interested. The point of the above was to give the game more attacks and give us true combo possibilities when chains are included.

 

[Steam]

I skimmed your post.

get your SF/Blazblue/Marvel out of my smash brothers.

 

[Big-Cat]

Quit *****ing and keep an open mind. Have you even thought about how this could benefit the series or did you just see BlazBlue and automatically rejected it?

 

[Shorts]

Specials now have three versions available to them with the assignments of B+ATK. These will give you different versions of that special. Alternatively, this can give you access to alternating specials. For example, Samus could do Power Beam, Wave Beam, or Ice Beam with B+ATK depending on the input.

Okay this is what I've been saying for a long time. You've just added a lot more to it. Adding new ways tom implement more specials is a good idea IMO, but the way you described it works just as well. Could you give me an example of button combos for those three Samus moves though?

I like the idea of implementing Marios tornado, fludd, and cape in the same way you're using Samu's Beams.

 

[SmashChu]

Quit *****ing and keep an open mind. Have you even thought about how this could benefit the series or did you just see BlazBlue and automatically rejected it?

I'm going with Steam here.

There is no reason to make such a radical change to Smash which goes against its core principles. The whole idea was a more accessible fighting game, so it makes sense we only have three actions. Which is kind of what Steam is getting at (sort of). We don't need to have a heck more attacks.

The problem is you can't really do much more with Smash's mechanics besides refine them and change them slightly. It has a lot of stuff that works, and since the game is suppose to be accessible, not much more can be added. I see what your trying to say. You are trying to add something more to Smash, but we really can't, nor does it matter. The game works and there is nothing wrong with keeping it simple.

 

[---]

While I won't add to any arguements as I'd rather stay neutral for the moment, how does everyone feel about these ideas for moves that were brought up yesterday?

Shield + Special?
Or Attack + Special?

 

[Oasis_S]

How about a Trip Special. A Special on par with a Final Smash that can only be done after tripping. (Can't be turned off)

 

[OmegaXXII]

Zero would be nice but only if Megaman X incorporates it's style of plau.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I skimmed your post.

get your SF/Blazblue/Marvel out of my smash brothers.

Totally agree why would Smash bros take a lesser and crappier franchise as a role-model to improve ? when you look for perfection beyond SSB you won't find it because the game is already a better fighter.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Agreed, but only to a certain extent, enough, but not enough to turn Smash into just another fighter.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm...i can start to see why melee players who i know don't frequent these threads much...funny things happen here

edit: no wonder, this is considered under the general brawl discussion...coulda sworn i went to the melee pages...oh well.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Because they are solely into Melee lol...

 

[Life]

Getup specials or grab specials could be cool, I guess.

But I don't see the need to add anything else. There's plenty of moveset diversity as it is.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Getup grabs like when the opponent is lying down and you do a grab of a different variant right? I guess backward grabs should be as well, or aerial ones.

 

[Oasis_S]

Totally agree why would Smash bros take a lesser and crappier franchise as a role-model to improve ? when you look for perfection beyond SSB you won't find it because the game is already a better fighter.

"Sakurai is the visionary of the millennia and a truly infallible human being. His golden touch has crafted a masterpiece that the whole world will remember for generations.

All because I get to play as a homosexual with a big sword."

-- Ike-Sama

 

[OmegaXXII]

Why do you even take him seriously? Really, sometimes the guy is trolling.~~

 

[Jaklub]

Trolling or not, I don't see Smash 4 having 4 attack buttons too. It's a really, really radical addition that would change the entire game, bringing it closer to standard fighter games players, but farther from everyone else. It may happen one day, but I don't see it happening in Smash 4.

inb4"omguclosemindedfagetdieutrolllol"

I can see genuine diagonal attacks happening, tho.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I skimmed your post.

get your SF/Blazblue/Marvel out of my smash brothers.

I love you steam.
Have I ever told you that?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, it makes you look like a troll doing so, I'm not agaisnt the idea, just keep it Smash to a certain extent without breaching it's limit is all.

 

[Phostopheles]

I'm going with Steam here.

There is no reason to make such a radical change to Smash which goes against its core principles. The whole idea was a more accessible fighting game, so it makes sense we only have three actions. Which is kind of what Steam is getting at (sort of). We don't need to have a heck more attacks.

The problem is you can't really do much more with Smash's mechanics besides refine them and change them slightly. It has a lot of stuff that works, and since the game is suppose to be accessible, not much more can be added. I see what your trying to say. You are trying to add something more to Smash, but we really can't, nor does it matter. The game works and there is nothing wrong with keeping it simple.

I agree with this. The current mechanics are great. They should be built upon, not completely retooled. Otherwise there's not much to differentiate SSB from any other franchise.

Frankly, I don't understand Kuma's chain of reasoning. We already have basic, heavy (smash), and light (tilt) ground attacks. I don't know why you'd want to add more ground moves to a game in which one of the major determinants of character variety is air game.

If anything, I'd want them to make comboing easier. Reduce lag, increase fall speed and allow fast-falling, add a dash move and a shield attack, and make it easier to chain hits. We don't need more attacks, we need more mobility, more options.

 

[OmegaXXII]

People need to stop being so close minded. <_<

I want change but not extremely different, just some basic changes is all.

 

[Jaklub]

People need to stop being so close minded. <_<

I want change but not extremely different, just some basic changes is all.

It's you who needs to stop being close minded.

It's Smash that is unique among fighting games, not the other way around. Phostopheles summed it up perfectly.

edit: oh yeah, editing to answer an edit.
Problem is, those changes which you think are basic would change pretty much the entire game.

 

[Opelucid]

People need to stop being so close minded. <_<

I want change but not extremely different, just some basic changes is all.

This!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Weren't as successful as Pokemon stadium.

Yeah, even Battle Revolution didn't do too well with the rentals.

There was no Shadow Lugia trophy at all tho?

No references whatsoever, apart from the Chronicle.

 

[OmegaXXII]

It's you who needs to stop being close minded.

It's Smash that is unique among fighting games, not the other way around. Phostopheles summed it up perfectly.

edit: oh yeah, editing to answer an edit.
Problem is, those changes which you think are basic would change pretty much the entire game.

Who the hell said I wanted to completly change Smash? derp.

I said I wouldn't mind a couple of changes, minor ones mind you like a new mechanic or such, not to completly transform it into a fighter, derp.

 

[Shorts]

"Sakurai is the visionary of the millennia and a truly infallible human being. His golden touch has crafted a masterpiece that the whole world will remember for generations.

All because I get to play as a homosexual with a big sword."

-- Ike-Sama

He's right. Did you ever play Brawl? Glorious game. . . BlazeBlue, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Street Fighter, vs. Capcom series. . . all bow down to it's balanced glory.

Look, Smash doesn't need to change it's formula. You're right. But it could learn a few things from other fighters.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Tekken was awesome indeed, Bkazblue as well, but in NO WAY do I want to see Smash completly remove it's unique aspects and turning it into another Street Fighter.

 

[Shorts]

Tekken was awesome indeed, Bkazblue as well, but in NO WAY do I want to see Smash completly remove it's unique aspects and turning it into another Street Fighter.

That's what Nintendo vs. Capcom is for.

 

[OmegaXXII]

That's what Nintendo vs. Capcom is for.

Haha, I completely forgot about that, now that game would be a perfect mix of both, I would expect good Street Fighter like mechanics if it were that game, Mewtwo vs. Bass EXE. lol....

 

[Jaklub]

Who the hell said I wanted to completly change Smash? derp.

I said I wouldn't mind a couple of changes, minor ones mind you like a new mechanic or such, not to completly transform it into a fighter, derp.

If you were not referring to adding additional attack buttons, then ok.

If you were (which your "close-minded" after Phostopheles's post suggests), then yes, it would largely change the gameplay (not transforming it into a fighter completely, but bringing it closer to this quite a lot). It's not the basic gameplay that needs correction. It's good as it is. It's appealing and easy to learn.

Not gonna lie, I did not watch this whole Smash extending discussion too precisely. I lost my interest in this thread when the E3 hype died down and now I'm entering it from time to time, answering to some of these posts.

Derpity derpity derp.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Pokemon Colosseum and Pokemon XD never did get any representation in Brawl. And Battle Revolution wasn't represented either.

Colosseum really should have had some of its music in Brawl. That game was amazing...

 

[Shorts]

Haha, I completely forgot about that, now that game would be a perfect mix of both, I would expect good Street Fighter like mechanics if it were that game, Mewtwo vs. Bass EXE. lol....

I actually have an unfinished sketch of Nintendo x Capcom

The pairings were:

Mario x Ryu [Street Fighter]
Peach x Chun Li [Street Fighter]
Link x Leo [Red Earth]
Kirby x Megaman
Pikachu x Amateresu [Okami]
Samus x Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
Fox x Dante [Devil May Cry]
Marth x Strider
Pit x Morrigan [Dark Stalkers]

Bosses:
Ganondorf x Akuma

(Matthew x Batsu, Mewtwo x Bass.EXE and Donkey Kong x Haggar were some other ideas)

 

[Phostopheles]

That's what Nintendo vs. Capcom is for.

Give it enough time, it'll happen.

 

[Shorts]

Give it enough time, it'll happen.

It could be a ways away though. . .

I'll stick to drawing it for now.

Anyways, anyone game to make a cut list? Like, if I asked you to cut fifteen characters, who would you look to first, then second, third ect.

1. Lucario
2. Toon Link
3. Snake
4. Sonic
5. Ike
6. Lucas
7. Falco
8. Pokemon Trainer Red
9. Wolf
10. Zero Suit Samus
11. Sheik
12. Mr. Game and Watch
13. Meta Knight
14. R.O.B
15. Wario

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, I'm up for change but like I said only one's that would add a feel to it like grabs, or maybe a super smash of some sorts, the Smash mechanics can stay the way it is.

@shorts: for smash 4 right?