New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Big-Cat]

I think people just need to remember the main target audience these days are the 10 year olds that have more years of youth to (get their parents to) shell out money for this stuff. as people get older, only the hardcore really remain.

What's your source on this?

Nintendo has ALWAYS been about having a broad appeal, even to the point of having niche games (MOTHER, Metroid, etc.). Hell, most ten year olds probably don't know most of the characters besides Mario, Link, and the Pokemon characters.

 

[JavaCroc]

Forget Mario Kart 64, F-zero X has the best Rainbow Road soundtrack. I hope this is in SSB4.

This could go either way.

- He could be looking at characters that are very highly requested like King K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, Isaac, and to a lesser extend, Mega Man.

- He might look towards less prominent series like Custom Robo and Sin & Punishment.

- He could go guest-heavy with SSB4.

Let's hope its the first two options. As much as I love guests, there really should be no more then four guests, veterans included and I would not buy the game if Sakurai tries to put in guests characters in place of characters like Ridley and King K. Rool.

I'm hoping that he looks towards low-profile franchises. There are a lot of great examples. Saki, Ray, Chibi-Robo, Takamaru, etc.

I agree as well and I have a feeling we'll see more of a focus on true antagonists. I would honestly be completely unsurprise to see all of Ridley, King K. Rool, Bowser Jr., and Medusa make the cut as playable characters.

It would be nice if something like that happened. SSE was a type of story that needed a lot more involvement from Nintendo characters and I think if it had more Assist Trophy involvement, it could have been a considerably better story.

For Zoroark, this is definitely true. Aside from Mario_and_Sonic_Guy, I have yet to see an active Zoroark supporter. Victini, not so much. While he doesn't get in as many people's wishlist, his fans have been more vocal in defending Zoroark and unlike Zoroark, who fits under the "Expected, but not wanted" candidate, I have seen considerable genuine support for Victini inclusion.

A lot to respond to here. First, I like the F-Zero music.

Second, I don't think he'd ever add in a lot of guests in one single game to Smash. His previous comments have shown he prefers to limit third-party appearances. He may have to dig into the Nintendo archives or look some stuff up, but I expect him to include a mix of the first two choices.

Third, I do believe there will be more emphasis on new franchises this time around. Starfy, Ray, Chibi-Robo, and I guess Saki too are all plenty deserving new franchise reps, although some do have problems holding them back. However, Takamaru does not represent a franchise - he represents only one obscure NES game, really. His mode in Samurai Warriors 3 was really just a "bonus" mode which doesn't really count towards his "series". Just clarifying.

(Thatprobablysoundedlikebias)

Fourth, I do see more antagonists in SSB4. Fifth, thank you. Sixth, I'd like to see some true Victini supporters other than you, because I haven't been seeing any other true supporters out there. Can you point out any?



Anyways, I have this theory regarding Sakurai's intended roster for Brawl. Basically, I think now that Jigglypuff wasn't intended to return at first, and Roy and Mewtwo were cut and Wolf added because of Sonic.

Also, I'm going to soon post some ideas I've had to improve a mode many felt wasted time for Sakurai in Brawl's development; Coin Launcher.

Until then, I can't post, though I'll be watching this thread for a bit. Off from posting.

 

[Steam]

It's all unfortunetly up to Sakurai on who gets in, and based on the past, we must all be prepared for some disapointment.



While they are in competition with each other and have a similar special move, I find it a little bias to compare the two within the Pokemon series; especially since they have different fighting styles and powers.

But you are probably right, Gen. 5 will more then likely be put before Mewtwo, and Lucario is more relvant then him.

I was just comparing him to who he's competing with. for him to make it in he's going to have to "beat" the gen 5s or lucario. (unless they put in two gen 5's... which seems unlikely) this is of course assuming pokemon gets 5 spots and they keep pika,jiggz,and PT

@Kuma- I was mainly referring to Casual gamers with that, as seen with how the wii took course. in general I don't think they'd scrap what's popular now for what used to be popular

 

[OmegaXXII]

I think people just need to remember the main target audience these days are the 10 year olds that have more years of youth to (get their parents to) shell out money for this stuff. as people get older, only the hardcore really remain.

Not really, take a japenese poll for example, if Sakurai were to hold a japenese character poll once again and that group suddendly happened to be "majority hardcore" wouldn't you at least see it as a possibility? I would, it really doesn't matter what 10 yr. olds thinks, all that really matters is what the japenese community thinks and decided upon.

 

[Steam]

Not really, take a japenese poll for example, if Sakurai were to hold a japenese character poll once again and that group suddendly happened to be "majority hardcore" would you see it as a possibility? I would, it would matter what 10 yr. olds thinks, all that really matters is what the japenese community thinks and decided upon.

that was just an example, I'm mainly referring to the fact that there are many more casual gamers than the hardcore. and I mean... many people view smash as a kiddie game as is

don't take it TOO literally. but the above is the main point I was trying to make.

but yeah if mewtwo was really popular in japan I'd put him in in a heartbeat. but last I heard the top 3 were pika, jiggz, and Lucario. but that's just what I've heard and I have no concrete source on it, so take it with a mound of salt.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Haha, so true XD.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Starphoenix]

@Starphoenix Stage concept: Awesome stage concept and it would be great playing in one. One thing I wonder is why you like to put third-party music in Nintendo stages?

I've only done it with a few, and that was because I felt those particular songs a) fit, and b) had as much of a realistic chance as third party content can have. I mean Through The Air was just to perfect, and if you played the game you'd know the track has a similarity to Red Canyon. It was just befitting. Granted, the Sonic track didn't have to be there, but it was more of a personal choice.

It was difficult finding edgier Nintendo music that haven't/or won't be attributed to other stage ideas.

Fun fact: Yoshinori Ono, director of the Street Fighter series, made the soundtrack to Megaman Battle and Chase.
Fun fact #2" Yoshino Aoki, musical producer of Breath of Fire 3 and 4; and Battle Network 1-3 and 6, sung the original version of Kaze yo Tsutaete (Roll's Theme).

 

[JavaCroc]

OK, I'm breaking the oath I made... what, seven posts above?... to just say I think I've lost a little support for Goroh by just watching this F-Zero TV interview.

... Awkward...

Now, I really can't post anything more - or at least anything big. Really off from posting.

EDIT: nLiM8D, thanks for noticing me.

 

[Steam]

okay the more I look at my example the worse it gets. forget it XD

I'm just saying the number of hardcore fans (the ones who have been around since the 90's) is smaller than newer fans who just started a few years ago... unless the industry is actually dying instead of blowing up like it should be.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Haha!! Gonna discuss this ruckus when I get back so yea...

 

[Steam]

oh... all I ask for music is that nintendo make the wiiU as hackable as the wii so we can have more custom music : 3

 

[---]

I think people just need to remember the main target audience these days are the 10 year olds that have more years of youth to (get their parents to) shell out money for this stuff. as people get older, only the hardcore really remain.

If this was true, then the roster would be mostly Mario and Pokemon characters with no retro characters.

As for being seen as a Kiddie game, I think thats only online noobs and the fanboys of Capcom fighters opinions. If it were also a kiddie game, SSB4 also wouldn't have gotten such hype at E3, and the SWF wouldn't exist.

Either way, SSB4 will make or break the Smash Series.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Steam]

If this was true, then the roster would be mostly Mario and Pokemon characters with no retro characters.

As for being seen as a Kiddie game, I think thats only online noobs and the fanboys of Capcom fighters opinions. If it were also a kiddie game, SSB4 also wouldn't have gotten such hype at E3, and the SWF wouldn't exist.

Either way, SSB4 will make or break the Smash Series.

well it's a big generally speaking type thing. and they still cater to the new things more than the old school. though it's especially hard for characters like mewtwo and roy to make it back because both of their franchises already have old school rep... which is where the point came from.

 

[Big-Cat]

Either way, SSB4 will make or break the Smash Series.

This. IMO, because of the drought of big name fighting games aside from Tekken, Virtua Fighter (only really popular in Japan though), and Guilty Gear, Smash was able to do whatever it wanted. Nintendo's gotta adapt for both hardcore and fighting game fans if they want their appeal.

 

[Steam]

yeah... stuff like Marvel, BB, and SF just gets more and more mainstream... which is definitely a good thing IMO :3

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Big-Cat]

And to be clear, I'm not saying Smash has gotta turn into a traditional fighter, because I want it to maintain its own identity, but I'm okay with sacrificing "uniqueness" for design stability.

I'm just saying that the idea of a game being deep and rewarding is becoming more appealing these days. And I'm not talking about having loads and loads of stuff to unlock.

 

[Shorts]

I think people just need to remember the main target audience these days are the 10 year olds that have more years of youth to (get their parents to) shell out money for this stuff. as people get older, only the hardcore really remain.

I beg to differ. Nintendo is specifically going after the hardcore gamer this time around. Seriously, we saw one Wii U game that was casual at E3. Besides, Nintendo has it's casual titles, and it's hardcore, Smash is not a casual title at heart. Sure anyone can pick it up, but the depth that smash has proves that it is intended for harcore gamers. I mean. . . Wii Sports is about as shallow as they come.

I think Doc is neutral because he has the Alternate costume going for him.

 

[Steam]

hey, smash does have plenty of depth. especially melee. Brawl has plenty as well... it just has a MK and the unique feature of horribly unsafe moves on block, forcing you to space or cross up every time you hit their shield. the bubble shield rewards this as well, as well spaced moves will hit even if the opponent is blocking if their shield has been out long enough or if it's taken a hit or two.

comming from someone who's played Marvel, Blazblue, SF, Melee, and Brawl

@shortie- Smash wasn't intended to be a deep competetive fighter as sakurai has said many times. it just wound up that way.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Doc is neutral because he has the Alternate costume going for him.

I was talking about in regards to being playable, which I am almost certain he will not make a return as his own slot. However, I think he should be an alt of Mario like a fan requested before Melee. Had that been the case, we would have almost certainly gotten one of Bowser Jr., Toad, or Paper Mario as playable characters in Brawl as I think Dr. Mario being dropped contributed to no new Mario rep in Brawl.

Also, you asked a question in regards to the button found on Project Unova and Project Begnion. I'll tell you how it works unless Barbasol has already done that.

 

[Shorts]

hey, smash does have plenty of depth. especially melee. Brawl has plenty as well... it just has a MK

comming from someone who's played Marvel, Blazblue, SF, Melee, and Brawl

@shortie- Smash wasn't intended to be a deep competetive fighter as sakurai has said many times. it just wound up that way.

Sakurai said that he intended Melee to be more competitive because he saw gaming take a competitive turn. It wasn't all by accident. The development team definitely knew what they were doing. A game like Smash doesn't happen by accident.

 

[Steam]

well it's at least what he's said about brawl... lol

 

[Starphoenix]

Here is an interesting topic I Just thought of, in Brawl each series saw one returning Melee stage (bar Ice Climbers). If we go by that process we could expect one stage to return from Brawl for each series (though in Mario's case it might be two-three). If you could pick one stage to return and one to be disbanded, what would they be? If you need help figuring it out, here is the list:

Mario:
Delfino Plaza
Mario Circuit
Luigi's Mansion
Mushroomy Kingdom
Mario Bros.

Zelda:
Bridge of Eldin
Pirate Ship

Metroid:
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon

Donkey Kong:
Rumble Falls
75m

Pokémon:
Pokémon Stadium 2
Spear Pillar

Every other series only had one stage, so they automatically will return. Melee's stages will likely not return much as we diid not see any past stages from Shash 64 in Brawl. Here are my selections.


Mario Circuit

Why?:
This stage is the representative of the largest and best selling Mario spin off to date. I can't see them really ditching this stage for any reason beyond the possibility of a new Mario Kart stage or an all encompassing Mario sports stage.

Mushroomy Kingdom

Why?:
This an iconic level/s and is one of the most unique stages in the game. There really is no reason I cannot see this returning.

Delfino Plaza, Mario Bros., Luigi's Mansion

Why not?:

Delfino Plaza: This stage will probably be passed over as the others will receive priority. On top of the most recent Mario series being Galaxy and the New Super Mario Bros, Sunshine is kind of "old news". Not to mention the possibility of a Paper Mario stage, which altogether with the returning stages, would already bring the current total of Mario stages to 6. You'll find out why I said six instead of five in a minute.

Mario Bros.: Lets face it, the stage isn't all that great nor is it really that fun. That type of feedback does get back to developers. Although due to the nostalgia factor I can't quite say with certainty this one will absolutely go. But not everything will be returning, and I don't see this one making the cut.

Luigi's Mansion: Before you cry and scream "why?" there is a perfectely reasonable explanation why it won't return. Because we will definitely be seeing a Luigi's Mansion 2 stage. Incorporating more of the potential designs from Luigi's Mansion 3DS. So this stage isn't really "cut" in that sense.


Pirate Ship

Why?:
Tough to decide between the two, but I feel this one will squeak by on account of the setting. Besides being a major represent of "Celda" era which has been the primary handheld Zelda for the DS generation. Even though Skyward Sword is stylized, it isn't a part of the "Celda" chronology, so to speak.

Bridge of Eldin

Why not?:
Unfortunately this stage will be the victim on account of the other stage receiving priority. Even though the stage represents more of the "realistic" Zelda, I can see them returning to a new "Hyrule Castle" or some other stage based around Ocarina of Time/Link To The Past. So much of the music will be transferred over to the ensuing stage.


Norfair

Why?:
If we are going to have a lava level it should be the premier one. Frigate Orpheon is simply just not as interesting in comparison to this stage. Norfair is an important location throughout the first title and Super Metroid, being the stronghold of Ridley.

Frigate Orpheon

Why Not?:
Because after Metroid Prime 3 an d Metroid Prime Trilogy Sakurai will obviously take notice of the recent Metroid games. This series has always had the fortune of having a large presence of stages despite no characters to associate them too. Since Corruption and Other M are the most recent, I see them making respective stages for each game.


75m

Why?:
Ugh, as horrible as the stage may be, I really do see this returning. Pre-Brawl so many people clamored for a retro Donkey Kong stage I think they will feel comfortable carrying it over to "appease fans". The stage itself is cool, but the execution was horrible... The off-screen boundaries are way too close. See, you think the USA has a problem with borders, look at Nintendo? Their even worse!

Rumble Falls

Why not?:
It's simple, we will be receiving a Donkey Kong Country Returns stage. The whole "jungle" motif will already be covered. It really is that simple, it isn't as though the stage is that memorable or fun. At least 75m has some element of nostalgia, Rumble Falls is kind of a failed amalgamation of sorts.


Pokémon Stadium 2

Why?:
Given the fact that we will probably see zero Melee stages returning, Pokémon Stadium 2 will continue on the tradition of having our "stadium" stage.

Spear Pillar

Why not?:
BDiamond/Pearl/Platinum time to shine is over, the most recent series are currently HeartGold/SoulSilver and Black/White. This stage is, unfortunately, a more natural cut.

Any thoughts? Comments?

 

[Deleted member]

I really hope that we don't end up getting yet another Pokemon Stadium for SSB4. This got old in Brawl and Pokemon Stadium 2 should stay as the Pokemon Stadium and have the two stages in SSB4 (I think we'll get two) be dedicated to other places. Pokemon Stadium in Melee should have been dropped in favor of Poke Float for more variety.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Oasis_S]

It's kind of funny that the only thing Sakurai can come up with for Metroid stages is rising acid/lava or a stage that spins.

 

[Deleted member]

Every other series only had one stage, so they automatically will return.

I don't think it's that absolute. Ice Climbers did not have their stage from Melee back and neither did Mr. Game & Watch. The Brawl stages will only return if no new stages are made.

 

[Oasis_S]

I really hope that we don't end up getting yet another Pokemon Stadium for SSB4. This got old in Brawl and Pokemon Stadium 2 should stay as the Pokemon Stadium and have the two stages in SSB4 (I think we'll get two) be dedicated to other places. Pokemon Stadium in Melee should have been dropped in favor of Poke Float for more variety.

Now where was that post...

Hmmm... The Pokemon Stadium stage as a concept shouldn't go anywhere. It represents a major aspect of the series.

I would like for them to just go crazy with the idea of it though. Yeah, have all 17 types represented in one stage. HERE'S THE KICKER THOUGH. Each half of the stage would change. They would both change at the same time, but one half might be, say, Steel, and the other half would be Fire. Each type's half would be represented with a single Pokemon in the background at a time. During YOUR fight, the two background Pokemon would fight as well.

IT WOULD BE VERY DYNAMIC AND FLASHY. It would also show off a lot of Pokemon. Each generation would be represented very well. Each type would have a select few designated Pokemon to represent it. There would be a random chance of seeing either a weaker Pokemon, fully-evolved Pokemon, or even a legendary.

AAAA, I love this idea...

Yehs.


Also Shortie and Star are huge jerks. Everytime Shortie goes on about Kanan, I have to go listen to Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow~ because Star posted it once. HUGE JERKS.

 

[---]

@Star

While I do agree with your picks for the Mario and D.K. series, and am neutral on the Zelda Series, I disagree with Metroid and Pokemon.

Frigate Orpheon, I think is more likely as chances are based on the trend of Metroid stages, we're going to Tourian as a replacement for Norfair, and the Prime series should get a stage as a Other M stage will more then likely take the spot for the other Metroid stage.

Spear Pillar, as much as I like PS, I think is more deserving to stay as it a bit more original and is actually based on an in-game location.

 

[Luco]

Actually a 64 stage did return in the form of a melee stage, although it's been changed(for the worse, IMO).

Star i have my part of the moveset i'll PM it to you.

And i'd rather mentioning you know what then being a derp. :-P

 

[Shorts]

When it comes to stages, I think Smash should really take a step back and try to get there head in the game. Brawl had some god awful stages. That being said, they had some very cool stages as well.

Here are all the stages I want to see return from each franchise:

Peaches Castle
Why?
Because, it's a staple place in the Mario series, out of every Mario level, this should be in SSB4. I don't mind if they revamp it either, in fact, I welcome that.

Luigi's Mansion
Why?
I like levels that make sense and revolve around a character. Luigi's level should be Luigi's mansion.

Delfino Plaza
Why?
It's an awesome level, representing one of my favorite Mario titles. I want this one to stay because it was one of the Brawl levels I actually enjoyed. On top of that, Bowser Jr could use it as his "home turf"

Hyrule Temple
Why?
Again, this level really made an Impact on me. I feel that it is another one of the "staple" Smash brothers levels

Green Green's
Why?
Another one of the "staples" you'll be hearing me talk about. It's just neccisary in my opinion. I don't mind if it gets revamped at all, just so long as it is back in some form.

Fountain of Dreams
Why?
It's one of the most epic levels, with one of the most epic themes ever. This level may look girly, but it's seriously one of the coolest stages ever made.

Onett/Fourside
Why?
Because New Pork blew. Hard.

Jungle Japes/Kongo Jungle
Why?
I mean, I hate all the DK levels in brawl, and really love both these levels. I hope one stays. Although a DKCR's level could replace them and I would be happy.

Pokemon Stadium
Why?
It's just a Staple. You ask me where do Pokemon battle? I would tell you, in POKEMON STADIUM OF COURSE! But seriously, I don't want this level to go.

F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Yoshi, Wario, Pikmin, and Metroid can all get new levels, I don't really care.

@Oasis, yeah, do you see who is in that picture on youtube? Kanan. She's the face of last story. NOT the main guy, I forgot his name.

derp

They've gotten to you too?. . . :/

 

[Luco]

No they're just telling me i'm one. Can you keep them at bay?

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't think it's that absolute. Ice Climbers did not have their stage from Melee back and neither did Mr. Game & Watch. The Brawl stages will only return if no new stages are made.

Yes, but it was actually quite understandable that their stage did not return. Remember how many people loathed that stage? Like I said, developers do pay attention to feedback. Which may have been why it did not return.

In Melee we saw 3 stages return and several others revamped into new/modern stages. With Brawl we saw more returning stages from Melee and one absence in Icicle Mountain. I don't think it is so unreasonable to believe we will at least be receiving one stage for each franchise. After all, it only adds to the game. The only stage I question whether it will return or not is New Pork City, it is possible MOTHER will have no returning stage whatsoever. Meaning it will only get one stage, a new one.

@Star

While I do agree with your picks for the Mario and D.K. series, and am neutral on the Zelda Series, I disagree with Metroid and Pokemon.

Frigate Orpheon, I think is more likely as chances are based on the trend of Metroid stages, we're going to Tourian as a replacement for Norfair, and the Prime series should get a stage as a Other M stage will more then likely take the spot for the other Metroid stage.

Spear Pillar, as much as I like PS, I think is more deserving to stay as it a bit more original and is actually based on an in-game location.

I don't believe so. With, presumably, neither Brinstar stages returning I don't foresee them wanting to give up on a stage that shares a similar atmosphere. Frigate Orpheon will more then likely be replaced by a modern Metroid Prime 3 stage such as Skytown or Phaaze. While I understand where you are coming from, it isn't so unreasonable to think we will not see three Metroid stages again.

Skytown or Phaaze
Geothermal Reactor
Norfail

Pokémon Stadium 2 is not going anywhere, sorry. On this one I am absolutely positive. My feeling is they will forego a Pokémon Stadium 3 and simply focus on a Black/White stage and a possible other locale. Since Game Freak has such a heavy hand in determining Pokémon content, I think they will want to move on from Diamond/Pearl. Plus, Lucario's fate is rather iffy, so if he did not return that would be even more incentive to not carry the stage over.

Actually a 64 stage did return in the form of a melee stage, although it's been changed(for the worse, IMO).

Star i have my part of the moveset i'll PM it to you.

And i'd rather mentioning you know what then being a derp. :-P

Cool. Shoot me it whenever you want too.

Also Shortie and Star are huge jerks. Everytime Shortie goes on about Kanan, I have to go listen to Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow~ because Star posted it once. HUGE JERKS.

Jerk huh? Fine, eat this!

 

[BlueXenon]

I think the game needs more women. Like Rosalina, Daisy, and dixie kong

 

[Luco]

Yeah i was just trying to get it from my laptop to this library computer. Now that i've got it....

 

[---]

Since past stages are being discussed, should Green Hill Zone and Shadow Moses Island return as past stages due to being 3rd party?

 

[Shorts]

Since past stages are being discussed, should Green Hill Zone and Shadow Moses Island return as past stages due to being 3rd party?

No. If Snake and/or Sonic do return, they should get new levels.