New Smash Bros for WiiU

[ChronoBound]

@Chrono: Wouldn't that currently be Shulk?

I am talking about something that is actually being developed by EAD. Miyamoto has been talking about this new series for a while.

 

[Shorts]

I am talking about something that is actually being developed by EAD. Miyamoto has been talking about this new series for a while.

If Miyamoto wants

he gets.

He's said this.

 

[Arcadenik]

I glorify Toad over Birdo and many Mario characters who aren't Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser because:

1. He's one of the only Mario characters who have been playable in the main platformer games. The others are Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, and Wario.
2. He's not exclusive to the spin-off games like Waluigi and Toadette are.
3. He's had a couple playable roles outside of spin-off games, unlike Daisy and Rosalina who have appeared in the main platformer games but never been playable in them.
4. He's not an one-time character who had appeared in only one game throughout the series' entire history like Geno is.
5. He's had his own game, Wario's Woods, where he's the main character. A character having their own game usually is a good thing to have on the resume.
6. He's one of two generic species to have been playable in the main platformer games (the other species is Yoshi). What does that say about the other generic species like Shy Guy, Goomba, Koopa Troopa, etc.? They are what? Generic enemies, no more, no less... and this is why Toad, Waddle Dee, and Slime have an advantage over all the other generic enemies from other game series.
7. He's timeless. He's been part of the Mario series since the beginning. He's one of the most famous video game characters of all time. He's simply one of the most popular video game characters of all time.
8. He's the last of the Mario Big Eight who isn't in Smash yet. The other seven are Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Wario, and Bowser. These eight characters have a significant influence on the Marioverse as a whole. They are the pillars of the whole franchise.

As for Toad's special moves, this is what I came up with.
[COLLAPSE="Toad's Special Moves"]
B - Poison Mushroom (from Super Mario Kart)
Toad pulls out a Poison Mushroom in front of him. When the opponent hits the mushroom, it explodes into spores that hurts and shrinks the opponent temporarily. Useful for turning the tables around on bigger/stronger opponents like Bowser, Ganondorf, and Ridley.

Side B - Golden Mushroom (from Mario Kart: Double Dash!!)
Toad pulls out a Golden Mushroom and it disappears from his hand. Toad's body now has a golden glow and he starts to zip across the stage. Useful for long distance horizontal recovery. If Toad hits an opponent during the move, he causes them to trip. Inspired by Mario Kart games where you hit the opponents in your Mushroom-powered kart.

Up B - Propeller Mushroom (from New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
Toad pulls out a Propeller Mushroom and it disappears from his hand. Toad starts wearing a propeller helmet and flies up. When Toad is propelling up, he hits the opponent multiple times from under. Useful for long distance vertical recovery. When Toad reaches the height of the Propeller Mushroom, he begins to fall slowly and you can manuver where he can go - making this useful for horizontal recovery as well. Toad is a bad jumper, you see.

Down B - Pick Up (from Super Mario Bros. 2)
Toad leaps up and does a quick ground pound. But if Toad successfully lands on top of an opponent, he immediately picks up the opponent. Toad can then carry the opponent around. Useful for grabbing and throwing them off the stage or at other opponents like a thrown Barrel. This is, of course, a reference to Toad's superhuman strength.

Final Smash - Lucky 7 (from Mario Kart 7)
Toad gets on his kart and starts driving around, using seven items from Mario Kart series.

A button to drop items behind the kart
- Banana (common)
- Bob-omb (rare)

B button to throw items ahead of the kart
- Green Shell (common)
- Red Shell (rare)

X/Y buttons to jump with the kart
- Feather

L+R buttons to use powerful items but they can be used only once
- with B button: Blue Shell (to OHKO a random opponent)
- with A button: Bullet Bill (to automatically home in several opponents)[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Deleted member]

~What Miyamoto wants~
~Miyamoto gets~

@Arcade: Again, I'm am not saying Birdo over Toad. I am saying that no one glorfies Birdo and typically ignore her while they glorify only Toad.

While looking at Daisy or Rosalina as good choices.

 

[yani]

A little more dirt on Snake being in Brawl.

 

[Oasis_S]

That was not a prediction roster I posted.

The problem I am having with posting an actual prediction roster is that there is almost certainly going to be a character or two that Sakurai puts in that almost no one sees coming (for Brawl it was Snake, Zero Suit Samus, and ROB). There were some people suggesting a Pokemon Trainer, but no one predicted the character would utilize the original starters.

I also have a hunch that if Nintendo's next major IP has a character that could be made playable in Smash Bros., that character could very well end up being playable in Smash 4 (though he/she/it would probably the be the last decided non-clone newcomer to the roster).

Do you think anyone else thinks they're going to predict everything 100%? We're not claiming prevision, just having SPORTY SPECULATORY fun among the STRONGEST.

Did Miyamoto say his next IP would be a character-driven one? Whatever it is, I'm going to doubt we'll see something playable of it in Smash. Could be another Nintendogs or something. And it may not be far enough in development to lend anything like that to the playable roster anyhow.


999 more posts than Star in this thread. If only I could get in one more before taking a nap.

 

[ChronoBound]

Did Miyamoto say his next IP would be a character-driven one? Whatever it is, I'm going to doubt we'll see something playable of it in Smash. Could be another Nintendogs or something. And it may not be far enough in development to lend anything like that to the playable roster anyhow.

Miyamoto specifically lamented how he has not created a true character driven IP since Pikmin, and that he really wanted to make a new one. He later confirmed that he and EAD were making a new character driven IP.

 

[Arcadenik]

I ignore Birdo because she's not important in the Mario games. She was only important in Super Mario Bros. 2 and is currently appearing in spin-off games. She's just like Daisy but better because at least Birdo was a recurring boss in a couple Mario RPG games. Toad simply trumps Birdo because he's more important and is currently important in the main platformer games even without playable roles sans New Super Mario Bros. Wii, in addition to appearing in spin-off games.

I wouldn't mind Daisy, Rosalina, Waluigi, Birdo, etc. in a Smash game if it is a Smash/Mario spin-off game where all the characters are from Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario games. It is about Mario All-Stars after all... but Smash? It is simply too big for the likes of these characters... I feel that only Toad has what it takes to be a Nintendo All-Star.

I am talking about something that is actually being developed by EAD. Miyamoto has been talking about this new series for a while.

I think this could potentially be a bad idea... would this unknown character make us want to play the game? Would we be happy that this character took the slot from another character, especially one who's established their popularity and fandom over the years? Or does Miyamoto hope to pull a Roy? At least Roy was a clone of a more established and popular Marth.

Miyamoto specifically lamented how he has not created a true character driven IP since Pikmin, and that he really wanted to make a new one. He later confirmed that he and EAD were making a new character driven IP.

Oh, I see how it is now... Sakurai didn't add Isaac, Starfy, Saki, etc. because they weren't Miyamoto's character driven IP... nope, only Olimar counts.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, I'm not trying to argue that Birdo is better than Toad. So get off the high horse about how Toad "trumps" Birdo.

 

[Pieman0920]

Pikmin was a more well known series at the time (and still is) and it was also on consoles unlike the series which the characters you mentioned came from...Outside of Saki, but he was only in one game compared to Olimar's two. Also not nearly as requested since it wasn't an international release, let alone a launch title. Still the whole well known thing may be as a result of Miyamoto anyways.

Also, my issue with Toad is that he's duller than all get out. I mean yes he's been featured in lots of spin offs, and SMB2, but that doesn't change how dreadfully boring the little guy is. And despite what Arc says, a strong small guy isn't that interesting, at least not to me. (Plus, Wario's small and strong as it is)

Oh yeah, and Birdo's not much better while we're at it.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Toad may be more deserving than Birdo but I don't see what his moveset would be.

I don't really see any/enough moves he could use in smash and that means they would probably give him a bunch of random moves.

 

[Lukingordex]

A playable Toad and a Peach´s Toad...

That will be strange lol

 

[Arcadenik]

Again, I'm not trying to argue that Birdo is better than Toad. So get off the high horse about how Toad "trumps" Birdo.

Actually I don't need to be on the high horse because Toad will always trump Birdo regardless.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think this could potentially be a bad idea... would this unknown character make us want to play the game? Would we be happy that this character took the slot from another character, especially one who's established their popularity and fandom over the years? Or does Miyamoto hope to pull a Roy? At least Roy was a clone of a more established and popular Marth.

By the time Smash 4 is released, the first installment for Miyamoto's/EAD's new series will be out. Also, despite Roy being unknown, he ended up being one of the most popular newcomers for Melee (even Sakurai anticipated this, saying on Roy's update that despite his game not being out yet and everyone being unfamiliar with the character that lots of players would fall in love with his "charm"). I am sure if Miyamoto's new character was in a similar position (in that the character's game would not be released until after Smash 4) that Sakurai would make sure the character was made in a way that would be appealing to most Smash Bros. fans.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Calling it: Miyamoto's new IP will be a launch title for the Wii U.

I'm dying just thinking about them revealing it at E3.

Calling it again: Whatever it is, it will be awesome.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad may be more deserving than Birdo but I don't see what his moveset would be.

I don't really see any/enough moves he could use in smash and that means they would probably give him a bunch of random moves.

You don't see what his moveset would be? The moveset is not the issue. Peach proves that. Zelda proves that. Sheik proves that. Captain Falcon proves that. R.O.B. proves that. Ice Climbers prove that. You make it sound like having a bunch of random moves is a bad thing. Well, look at Mr. Game & Watch's moveset. His is nothing but a bunch of random moves. Looking dull isn't going to keep a character out of Smash. Mr. Game & Watch has the most dullest appearance of all of Nintendo characters... but he's got an interesting moveset. That's the key here... a character should be able to do something interesting to be considered.

If people think Bowser Jr. is going to be unique with the paintbrush and totally not be a Bowser clone at all, they are really in denial. Sorry but that's how it looks like to me. Yes, I know all about what Bowser Jr. can do but that won't matter to Sakurai if he sees Bowser Jr. as a baby Bowser... just like how Toon Link having unique weapons from Wind Waker and still ending up as a clone of Link because Sakurai sees Toon Link as a young Link. This is where Sakurai screwed up big time with Ganondorf. You just don't compare the King of Evil with a car-racing driver. Anyway, this is one of the reasons why I support Toad over Bowser Jr... he is less likely to end up as a clone of Mario or Peach.

 

[Pieman0920]

Why makes you so confident Arc that Bowser Jr. will have to be seen as a small Bowser while at the same time Toad won't just be seen as Peach's neutral special? <_<

 

[GiantBreadbug]

If people think Bowser Jr. is going to be unique with the paintbrush and totally not be a Bowser clone at all, they are really in denial. Sorry but that's how it looks like to me. Yes, I know all about what Bowser Jr. can do but that won't matter to Sakurai if he sees Bowser Jr. as a baby Bowser... just like how Toon Link having unique weapons from Wind Waker and still ending up as a clone of Link because Sakurai sees Toon Link as a young Link. This is where Sakurai screwed up big time with Ganondorf. You just don't compare the King of Evil with a car-racing driver. Anyway, this is one of the reasons why I support Toad over Bowser Jr... he is less likely to end up as a clone of Mario or Peach.

I have no beef with Toad, but back off Bowser Jr., my man. Saying that any one character is likely to be a clone of another is silly, as nobody can say for sure that a new character will be a clone. Plus, even if Bowser Jr. were a clone of Bowser (and I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that he wouldn't be), he'd at least be an interesting clone. The reason Toon Link is my favorite clone is because he's so radically different from the character he's cloned from. Bowser Jr. would have such different dynamics. And based on how clones were further Luigified in Brawl, I'm guessing that clones in SSB4 will be so different from their sources that they'll blur the line.

Besides, I need Bowser Jr. to appear in that Mini Koopa Clown Car.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Calling it: Miyamoto's new IP will be a launch title for the Wii U.

I'm dying just thinking about them revealing it at E3.

Calling it again: Whatever it is, it will be awesome.

Hopefully it will be awesome and successful. Last time Nintendo tried to introduce new IP's people didn't even realize it. I would be surprised if this new IP ever gets close to as successful as one of Nintendo's main series' like Mario, Zelda, DK, Pokemon, etc.

I hope it will though because then I will have more Nintendo games to look forward too.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why makes you so confident Arc that Bowser Jr. will have to be seen as a small Bowser while at the same time Toad won't just be seen as Peach's neutral special? <_<

Because I look into Sakurai's past actions to predict his possible future actions. He sees Dark Samus as just an evil Samus with a different color after all. Hell, he was going to add Toon Sheik instead of Tetra to accompany Toon Zelda.

Because before Brawl, Toad didn't have much going for him for the past 15 years. Toads didn't have notable roles beyond Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods. After Brawl, Toads are playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and will be playable in New Super Mario Bros. Mii (for the Wii U). Paper Mario 3DS will have a new Toad partner. THE Toad now have many more possible moveset ideas from these games beyond just Super Mario Bros. 2.

 

[Deleted member]

He also doesn't see Toad as a fighter.
What now?

(And don't try turning it into another "Toad r iz bettar than Birdo", as I don't really support Birdo. At all.)

 

[RomanceDawn]

Miyamoto specifically lamented how he has not created a true character driven IP since Pikmin, and that he really wanted to make a new one. He later confirmed that he and EAD were making a new character driven IP.

I'm generally pretty caught up with the news especially when it concerns Nintendo or Miyamoto's projects. Do you have a link? I do believe you but everything I remember reading about Miyamoto's new IP, nothing was said about it being character driven.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So he add clones. That doesn't mean Bowser Jr. WILL be a clone. I think if he got in, his chances of being one is somewhat high, but saying he will for sure is silly.

I think the Hunters may be at best clones. But that doesn't mean they can't be original.

Also, what makes you think Toad wouldn't be a clone of Peach either? I mean, he does some similar stuff to her.

No matter how you slice it, any character can become a clone. Nobody whatsoever is safe from it. So I stopped caring whether they were a clone or not, and instead is if the character is interesting.

 

[Wizzrobe]

What do you guys think about Bowser JR. with like a Zelda/Sheik trasnformation where he turns into Shadow Mario?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't want another "Mario" unless it's Doc.

Also, time for a cloned Toad special list.

B: Spores-Toad stiffens his body to brace for impact. When someone or something hits him in this state, he releases spores as a counter.
Side B: Toad Bomber-Toad pulls back, then launches forward with his head. (What? It didn't need to JUST like Peach's *** slam, right?)
Up B: Carpet-Toad leaps up into the air, and pulls out a carpet, which catches wind and slows his decsent.
Down B: Vegetable-Just like Peach, Toad plucks Vegetables. However, he can also pick up Giant Vegetables at random instead of items like Peach does.
FS: Toadstool Dance-Toad does a little dance while images of Toad appear at the sides, then every character on the ground is stunned as if their shield was broken, and a bunch of mushrooms (the Food item, not the Super or Poison variety) appear on the stage. People closer to Toad when he does this are stunned longer.

There. That took me about 2 minutes.
EDIT: I'm well aware Toad can easily have a unique moveset, however, the point of this was to show that Toad CAN easily be a clone of Peach as well, dispelling any argument about Toad beating out Bowser Jr. soley on the premise that he can easily be a clone of Bowser.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What do you guys think about Bowser JR. with like a Zelda/Sheik trasnformation where he turns into Shadow Mario?

Depends if Shadow Mario is a clone, or both characters are clones. Which could even be interesting in concept itself, but really weird still.

Impa is pretty much the best bet for a new potential duo character really. But even she could be made separate just as easy as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

He also doesn't see Toad as a fighter.
What now?

Again, this was pre-Brawl. A time when Toads didn't really do much. We are in a post-Brawl world now where Toads are taking the initiative and going out on adventures with Mario whether we see them (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Paper Mario 3DS) or not (Super Mario Galaxy 2).

So he add clones. That doesn't mean Bowser Jr. WILL be a clone. I think if he got in, his chances of being one is somewhat high, but saying he will for sure is silly.

I think the Hunters may be at best clones. But that doesn't mean they can't be original.

Also, what makes you think Toad wouldn't be a clone of Peach either? I mean, he does some similar stuff to her.

No matter how you slice it, any character can become a clone. Nobody whatsoever is safe from it. So I stopped caring whether they were a clone or not, and instead is if the character is interesting.

The only thing Toad has in common with Peach are vegetables. That's it. That's like saying Lucario is a clone of Mewtwo because they have the same B move even though the other B moves are all different.

I care because I want variety in characters. I do not need another character who has Bowser's moveset. I do not need another character who has Mario's moveset.

What do you guys think about Bowser JR. with like a Zelda/Sheik trasnformation where he turns into Shadow Mario?

Oh wonderful... so it is two clones rolled into one... don't like the Bowser clone? Transform into the Mario clone then!

You know what? I think Sakurai should just save up development time and just add newcomers who are likely going to be clones just so we can have Smash 4 ASAP. Dr. Mario, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Donkey Kong Jr., Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Louie, Slippy Toad, Black Shadow, Pichu, Roy, and Ninten.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

What do you guys think about Bowser JR. with like a Zelda/Sheik trasnformation where he turns into Shadow Mario?

Ehh, I tend to not like that idea very much, just because Mario clones are a touchy subject with me. Luigi is awesome as it is, and I hate Dr. Mario with a firey passion (not his playstyle, just that he's a really silly character). Even if Shadow Mario had unique moves, it just irks me having more than one Mario around. Especially when Jr. has enough to draw from without Shadow Mario.

My ideal Jr. moveset? I'd have wield the Paintbrush constantly like a sword and use it for A moves. His neutral special would change the color of the paint, changing the effects the A moves have.


@Arc Oh, and like I said, step off with the "Bowser Jr. is definitely going to be a clone fo' sho' no matter what" bull-honkey. How it even got into your head that it was likely is beyond me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing Toad has in common with Peach are vegetables. That's it. That's like saying Lucario is a clone of Mewtwo because they have the same B move even though the other B moves are all different.

And explain what Ganondorf had in common with Falcon? Absolutely nothing. They're just both super strong, but that's not a move. Which does nothing but prove my point right. He could easily be a clone if it happens.

I care because I want variety in characters. I do not need another character who has Bowser's moveset. I do not need another character who has Mario's moveset.

Honestly, that's pretty much never going to happen in any fighting game, so you're going to have to get over it.

BTW, they don't play the same due to weight, height, strength, jump, and other factors. They can have the same list of moves and play completely differently. Mario and Luigi in the first Smash played nothing alike. Their only move differences were their Taunt and Running A. That was it. Yet they have different metagames, different tier listings, and different winnings.

Doctor Mario did not play the same either. Despite having the same overall moves, but their properties were different, and that's all the variety required to keep different gameplay up.

To put it bluntly, clones will exist whether you like it or not. So deal with it.

 

[Deleted member]

The only things that Jr. can copy from Bowser logically are the Flame Breath (altough some games show he has difficulty breathing fire) and any shell spinning moves, and I GUESS the Ground Pound (though nearly every Mario character can do it anyway...).

But of course with Jr. having the Paintbrush and various paint attacks, his Jr. Klown Kar for a possible recovery (You don't see Bowser Sr. using his outside of the SSE, do you?), Sonic Screams, etc. it's very easy to make him a non-clone.
Especially with his lack of sharp claws unlike Papa, to where he can use the Paintbrush as a weapon instead.

Face it Arcade, you're biased for Toad, which leads you to make bull**** excuses like "Bowser Jr. will be a clone" when, as I've proven, can happen to Toad as well.

Hell, you know Meowth? Can be a clone of Wolf/Fox (but mostly Wolf for normal attacks)
B: Pay Day-Shoots coins like a laser.
Side B: Faint Attack-Dashes forward, phasing through enemies like the Fox Illusion
Up B: Blast Off (lolanimereference)-Pauses for a second, then flings himself in any direction pressed in an explosion (is unharmed, btw).
Down B: Protect-A special shield forms around Meowth that reflects projectiles.
FS: Rocket Tank (another anime reference)-Hops in a Team Rocket based tank that works just like a Landmaster.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

But of course with Jr. having the Paintbrush and various paint attacks, his Jr. Klown Kar for a possible recovery (You don't see Bowser Sr. using his outside of the SSE, do you?).

So. Much. This. I would feel comfortable saying that Bowser Jr. is my most wanted Mario newcomer, and this would be the icing on the cake if he were playable, as it's something I've always included in my drafts of Jr. movesets.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Super Edit:

Somehow I was on the first page and thought someone posted news as if it was current.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Super Edit:

Somehow I was on the first page and thought someone posted news as if it was current.

I would be lying if I said I haven't done that before.

 

[RomanceDawn]

So. Much. This. I would feel comfortable saying that Bowser Jr. is my most wanted Mario newcomer, and this would be the icing on the cake if he were playable, as it's something I've always included in my drafts of Jr. movesets.

During the day's of Sunshine I could not stand the idea of Bowser Jr in anything. Mainly because the koopa kids were neglected for so long. But since they have reappeared along with Bowser Jr I am totally ok with him.

I think him transforming into Shadow Mario or anything dealing with Shadow Mario has a zero % chance of happening. If anything I would imagine Bowser Jr to inherit attacks and moves from the 7 Koopa kids. At least some of their Super Mario Bros 3/world/Wii attacks as specials. The rings or the balancing ball to name a few. Which would be created with one of those magic wands instead of the magic paint brush.

 

[Arcadenik]

Who are more likely going to be a clone? Toad as a clone of Peach or Bowser Jr. as a clone of Bowser?

I don't want to see another character who plays or aesthetically looks like another character. That's what bothered me the most about having two Marios, having two Pikachus (Pichu is Baby Pikachu, Plusle & Minun would be two Pichus as a team), having two Links... and I don't want to see two Bowsers (Bowser Jr. is really a modern Baby Bowser) or two Samuses (Dark Samus, and I don't want to see Sakurai try to make up Dark Zero Suit Samus) or two Pits (Dark Pit) or two Zeldas and especially two Sheiks. It's just so lazy to just copy/paste characters and enter different values for different properties and then claim that as variety. It's so fake and unoriginal. Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon angers me... Sakurai should have just added Black Shadow in Melee instead - at least F-Zero would have had two characters and the clones are within the same series. Just because it's happened before doesn't mean it should happen again. I don't understand all the defending for clones... it's like you don't even want variety at all. I really think people who say Bowser Jr. isn't going to be a clone are in denial. If two characters who are very similar to each other, especially in name, there is a very good chance they are going to be clones. If I wanted multiple characters, I would have liked it if they were different in their movesets AND their aesthetic appearances. This is where Zero Suit Samus did it right. Zero Suit Samus does not look anything like Samus and does not play anything like Samus and she did not take up a second slot. That's why I would like Masked Link where you get to play as Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link... there's no way they could play similar to Link and they look very different from Link and they would not take up three separate slots but take up only one slot.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

........I want king k. Rool.....

 

[Deleted member]

And again, we have a wall of stupidity.

Arcadenik, just shut up. You're clearly incapable of making coherent arguments as you make generalizations, hypocracy, and sheer ignorance all within the same long-*** paragraph.

Now, for an actually intelligent discussion, how do you think Sakurai will represent his cat in the next Smash ?

 

[nLiM8d]

Hmm, judging by the games you'd think that diddy would weigh a bit more. whadiyakno?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

The problem I am having with posting an actual prediction roster is that there is almost certainly going to be a character or two that Sakurai puts in that almost no one sees coming (for Brawl it was Snake, Zero Suit Samus, and ROB).

That's the entire point, chief.

One of these days you'll realize it's okay to put stock in an idea and accept that you might be completely wrong. No one's gonna give you that degree of respect you're obsessed with if you live on the fence and parrot the obvious.

 

[Oasis_S]

OUCH. Toise's assessment may have touched a nerve.