New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Diddy Kong]

Its also the newest game. And Nintendo themselves like it a lot, plus Sakurai is playing through it himself. Japan was kind of fed up with Zelda actually BECAUSE they copied Ocarina of Time too much actually. :/

 

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai plays a ton of games FYI. Did you see how many Virtual Console games he has on his Wii alone?

He also bought Ocarina of Time 3DS in case you did not know.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

@skyward sword outselling ocarina 3DS

again that's not a fair comparison because:
1) there are more wiis out there than 3DSs
2) one is a remake and some people with the original will resent buying another copy
3) ocarina is also on VC and some people may have opted for that choice because of the price tag where as there is only one skyward sword

 

[yani]

Sales are irrelevant really. If anything OoT has the advantage of being remade anyway.

 

[Big-Cat]

Let's not forget other factors:

1. OoT 3D was one of the optimal titles to choose at the beginning of the 3DS' life cycle.
2. Like SS, this game was rather hyped, going so far as to get Robin Williams and his daughter Zelda to be part of the European advertising campaign (why didn't US get this?)

But really, why are we using sales as points.

Of course, I'm rather sick of speculation as it is as it's nothing more than making predictions based off of personal interpretations and beliefs.

 

[Deleted member]

Agreed, this topic needs more Shake King.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Wii is a dying console however, and the 3DS us brand new. More people would want a new 3DS game than a Wii game. Especially cause you also need Motion Plus for SS, and without it you need to pay extra. Plus, people generally dislike the cell shaded graphics for Zelda. And despite all that SS outsold OOT3D.

 

[ChronoBound]

. And despite all that SS outsold OOT3D.

Only in North America.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which is the bigger overall country than Japan. What about Europe?

 

[yani]

Not true. Many people still haven't purhased a 3DS. Everyone owns Wii by now, so SS is bound to have more sales.

 

[---]

Since I've been AFK for a while now, just to get my thoughts out of the way. BTW, the fact that you're all discussing Impa so much is rather sad, props to Diddy though on his sucessful propaganda.

1. Sales don't matter.
2. I'm betting that Sheik will get Impa colors for an alt. While Impa herself will be stuck as a Trophy, or if she's really lucky as an AT.
3. SS is no OoT, at least not yet. SS is really only worth mentioning because of the content that will come from it similar to MM or TP in the previous games.

 

[ChronoBound]

Which is the bigger overall country than Japan. What about Europe?

OoT3DS did better in Europe too.

Its pretty much just North America that is the anomaly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not true. Many people still haven't purhased a 3DS. Everyone owns Wii by now, so SS is bound to have more sales.

It has had a price drop, and Mario Kart 7 is currently the best selling game on the charts. Also, the Wii is dying, SS without motion plus is expensive, and OoT is a game with more conservative controlls.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hooowww loong we'll talkin' about Impa's chances...

Go play Pushmo or something.
(-´ω`-)

 

[Oasis_S]

Of course, I'm rather sick of speculation as it is as it's nothing more than making predictions based off of personal interpretations and beliefs.

Such as believing Zelda and Sheik need to be separated.

 

[yani]

Yeah I'm backing out on Impa/Sheik now. My final bet is Impa gets an AT.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I won't much care if Sheik gets replaced as Impa or not...

(-l,l-);

But indeed, Kuma's right...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm using sales cause its gonna be brought up anyway.

Also, keep on going on untill people at least as much as acknowledge Sheik is outdated.

 

[---]

Hooowww loong we'll talkin' about Impa's chances...

Go play Pushmo or something.
(-´ω`-)

Probably as long as people keep giving into Diddy's propaganda.

I finally got Pushmo, it's pretty fun, but I do have a hard time seeing it getting any content outside of a trophy and some music tracks.


@Zelda Propaganda:

Spoiler

Toise's Super Money Pick:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
[Child] Link


Same as Melee and Brawl.

---------------------------------

Character Designs: No, I don't particularly know nor care which they'd use for Sheik, Ganon, and the younger Link. I'm guessing the options are:
1. based on OoT models
2. based on SS concepts made by the Zelda team
3. something somewhat original (like with Fox in Brawl)

We talked a little about Star Fox 64 in the SF thread. I'm pretty sure OoT has a similar series-defining impression on Sakurai (as it does on most fans).



Ganondorf with a new moveset: Pretty sure I hate Zelda nerds because of the following:

- Nobody who complains about Ganondorf's moveset actually plays as Ganondorf (and if Bowser is any indication, still wouldn't play as him)
- None of them care about F-Zero nor Black Shadow himself (and certainly not about Samurai Goroh)
- Next to nobody says anything about Wario's made-up moveset

But I digress. I think it's entirely possible that a few moves change. The Black Shadow switch is considerably less likely, but that's something I'd like to save for an F-Zero thread.


*** Tingle ***

One of the biggest misconceptions about Tingle is that the Japanese love him. As far as I can tell, they like him alright, but not love. His first game sold modestly, his second somewhat poorly (and both well below the average for Zelda games in general). There's no blowback from his exclusion in recent Zelda games and I can't say I've ever seen him go anywhere on any fan polls. Add all that in to his design being called unappealing and it doesn't look good for him.


*** Toon Zelda ***

I'm not sure how serious Sakurai (or maybe someone else on the team) was with this idea, especially with the other folder being "Toon Sheik" and not "Tetra" or just not being there at all. Gonna treat this the same way I treat weird sounds at night -- by assuming it's probably nothing.
[on a more personal note: I think I'd prefer Toon Zelda without a transformation, should that idea go anywhere. I'd also hope they'd consider a Toon Ganondorf alt costume just to complete the set]



****** Other stuff ******

Ghirahim: The new Zant/Midna/whatever, recent character that some Zelda nerds will support just because they're recent. See my comments on recent characters below.

Vaati: Pretty sure Sakurai has no idea who he is. Was he even a sticker in Brawl? I'm sure someone will bring up his similar appearance to Ghirahim or the free Four Swords on the DSi Shop anyway.

Skull Kid/Midna/more Links: Zelda nerds (along with Mario, Pokemon, and for some reason Fire Emblem nerds) seem to be the only ones who figure literally every character from that series has a chance at being playable.


Regarding Recent Characters: At this time I'd like to mention that being new in a series with a static cast (all series except the RPGs) is actually a bad thing for inclusion. Every single playable character from a static cast is either

A) about as old as the series itself, or
B) a variation on an existing character (Sheik/ZSS/kid Links)

I do believe there are potential exceptions to this trend, but since none of them are Zelda characters, I'd rather not discuss them too deeply here.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Tri-Hy: Me too, because it's a downloadable game... so I wonder will they really give it some representation...
But maan, it would be so awesome...

 

[---]

Tri-Hy: Me too, because it's a downloadable game... so I wonder will they really give it some representation...
But maan, it would be so awesome...

Agreed. At first glance a stage seems perfect, but in hindsight it just wouldn't work.

A trophy and some music tracks (good for an AC or Wii Series stage) would work well though IMO.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

A stage...

Mallo would come in to push and pull blocks, which would make the stage change a lot... but it would be quite gimmicky too. (-lvl-);

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

With Skyward sword melding toon and realistic link, and the three timelines essentially representing the 3 pieces of the triforce (Link dies (Old school) timeline = Power, Past (Realistic) timeline = Courage, Future (Toon) = Wisdom) I think that's a well enough argument that Toon Link isn't needed in smash anymore.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hooyyy Psycho, Toon Link ain't going anywhere. (-l_l-);

At least I don't see how.

 

[Big-Cat]

Such as believing Zelda and Sheik need to be separated.

And that's far different than saying X character is likely or unlikely and automatically dismissing them.

I think they should be separated it, but I'm not expecting either outcome to happen.

@---
IIRC, Toise's predictions (which seemed to be used like a Bible around here for some reason) were made well before Impa was shown to have any role in the game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hooyyy Psycho, Toon Link ain't going anywhere. (-l_l-);

At least I don't see how.

Take him out of the game, and you still have every important character in the zelda franchise.

It's not like he's an established, recurring pillar of the smash series

 

[Deleted member]

@Diddy Kong: In Shortie's 2012 poll, Sheik is destroying Impa.

 

[yani]

Sakurai likes having two Links.

 

[Deleted member]

SS Link, without the fancy shading, isn't too different from TP Link.

Brawl does not use the fancy shading on Toon Link, so Sm4sh wouldn't use it on SS Link.

Toon Link is TOON Link for his carTOONish appearance, not his shading. He has tiny legs and a big head with big eyes.

Toon Link is the appearance Link has taken in most of the Zelda titles as of late.

Sakurai finds a younger Link to be important, as he views a "true" Link being a child. (Adult didn't come until OoT)

In summation, Toon Link is going nowhere, unless he is to be replaced by another child Link as he did to Young Link.

 

[---]

@Y. Horsetail: I guess in theory it could work, but it would depend on how the blocks are situated, if they're passthough-able, and if Sakurai wants to put work into a stage like that (it sounds complicated).

@Kuma: His predictions still apply IMO. If anything though, I'm sick of all of this silly Zelda talk that is going nowhere.

 

[Pieman0920]

The child/young/toon version of Link really has shown up a lot more than any other Link. Heck the design itself seems to be fairly solidified on. Its true that he probably won't leave.

Also in regards to Sheik, what if Sakurai doesn't view her as a separate character? What if he just views her as Zelda? Yeah it'd be sort of weird for SS Zelda to have a Sheik transformation, but it'd also be weird to see SS Zelda use the regular Zelda moveset. >_>

 

[yani]

Plus Sakurai has made every character "Brawlified". We probably won't see the SS designs.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

SS Link, without the fancy shading, isn't too different from TP Link.

Brawl does not use the fancy shading on Toon Link, so Sm4sh wouldn't use it on SS Link.

Toon Link is TOON Link for his carTOONish appearance, not his shading. He has tiny legs and a big head with big eyes.

Toon Link is the appearance Link has taken in most of the Zelda titles as of late.

Sakurai finds a younger Link to be important, as he views a "true" Link being a child. (Adult didn't come until OoT)

In summation, Toon Link is going nowhere, unless he is to be replaced by another child Link as he did to Young Link.

The toon Link timeline is the least important of the three.

Link from the NES/ SNES may not have been an adult, but he is not a child

 

[Diddy Kong]

@Diddy Kong: In Shortie's 2012 poll, Sheik is destroying Impa.

I have sincere doubts that that poll is accurate thb, and besides that, Impa is still higher than any other NEW Zelda character besides Ghirahim.

Toise's choices are indeed used as a Bible around here. Besides that, its made before Impa appeared in SS.

Also ---, define how you think my legitimate choice of wanting Impa above Sheik to be propoganda.

 

[Pachinkosam]

sakurai better not screw up:D

 

[Deleted member]

The toon Link timeline is the least important of the three.

Link from the NES/ SNES may not have been an adult, but he is not a child

"least important" is subjective, and does not apply to Smash. Sakurai doesn't give a crap about what you think about the timeline. Don't mean to be rude, but it's true. Your personal beliefs mean NOTHING to him.

Teenage is still considered "child". If he's not an adult (or senior or infant), he's a child. Hell, Toon Link's teenage as well, IIRC.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

"least important" is subjective, and does not apply to Smash. Sakurai doesn't give a crap about what you think about the timeline. Don't mean to be rude, but it's true. You're personal beliefs mean NOTHING to him.

Teenage is still considered "child". If he's not an adult (or senior or infant), he's a child. Hell, Toon Link's teenage as well, IIRC.

I don't think it's so much subjective as the realistic timeline is the only one where Link both succeeded in defeating Ganondorf and continued to be reincarnated.

The child timeline has little to do with the continuation of the triforce.

The realistic timeline has the reincarnation of Vaati and Ganondorf, while the toon - they ride trains.

If anything, even the timeline where Ganondorf defeats Link is more important, since it currently has the most games.

The toon timeline has a grand total of 2, so I don't see where you are getting toon Link being the most used. Link as a child is in more games, but not the incarnation known as "Toon Link"

 

[Red(SP)]

sakurai better not screw up:D

If only I could believe...

 

[---]

Toise's choices are indeed used as a Bible around here. Besides that, its made before Impa appeared in SS.

Also ---, define how you think my legitimate choice of wanting Impa above Sheik to be propoganda.

And yet it talks about recent characters....

As for the propaganda, I've had to do many projects in my history classes over the years by coming up with my own, so I know it when I see it.

Ex. Most everyone here has admited to hating talking about Impa, but thanks to your constant arguments and reminders (a type of propaganda) people can't stop talking about it. Heck a few pages back it looked like people were finally taking Impa somewhat seriously.


As a side note though, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Sheik getting in over Impa in Melee despite Impa still having had a role in mulitple Zelda games before that.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't think it's so much subjective as the realistic timeline is the only one where Link both succeeded in defeating Ganondorf and continued to be reincarnated.

The child timeline has little to do with the continuation of the triforce.

The realistic timeline has the reincarnation of Vaati and Ganondorf, while the toon - they ride trains.

If anything, even the timeline where Ganondorf defeats Link is more important, since it currently has the most games.

The toon timeline has a grand total of 2, so I don't see where you are getting toon Link being the most used. Link as a child is in more games, but not the incarnation known as "Toon Link"

1. Four Swords
2. Minish Cap
3. Wind Waker
4. Spirit Tracks
5. Phantom Hourglass

I'm pretty sure 5 is more than 2. And this is just off the top of my head. Your points are all invalid.