New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Red(SP)]

So Nintendo's main squeeze is tied with Pokemon.

Well, considering if you count all of the Pokemon PKMN Trainer has separately, I'd see the point you're making. But... then who's the other Mario rep?

 

[yani]

So why not give players a unique Mario in PM rather than a clone in Doc? Plus, iirc, Doc was the least popular clone that was planned.

Because Paper Mario will probably be frowned upon as well. At least Doc has already been in a smash game, so it essentially makes more sense

Well, considering if you count all of the Pokemon PKMN Trainer has separately, I'd see the point you're making. But... then who's the other Mario rep?

Well this was assuming we get Toad/Jr./Waluigi, being a 5th, and than bringing Doc to 6th

 

[Starphoenix]

I could have, it's been a long three years. BUT, the difference between Saki and Dixie, is we know Dixie was planned at one point. So I think it's possible that she had both a moveset planned and the trophy model that looks like old Diddy and DK was her actual model, not just made for a trophy.

Course, you're right, you can't BE SURE.

So were some of the ATs.

This does bring up a good question though. Were the characters in consideration to be playable but later implemented as ATs farther along than the Forbidden 7? Roy, who we have speculated was probably one of the very last characters cut, did not have anything outside of a sticker to his name. At least Mewtwo and Dixie Kong had a trophy.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Because Paper Mario will probably be frowned upon as well. At least Doc has already been in a smash game, so it essentially makes more sense



Well this was assuming we get Toad/Jr./Waluigi, being a 5th, and than bringing Doc to 6th

What does being frowned upon have to do with it? ROB was frowned upon, as is Jigglypuff. That doesn't matter. And since when would Doc be frowned upon less?

Paper Mario/Doctor Mario debate: :fuuu:

 

[ChronoBound]

Mewtwo's Brawl trophy is a model rip from that Pokemon Stadium-like Wii game.

 

[Pieman0920]

Pieman: Since the fact that he's the DK series's main villain.

No, that's DK. :V

And then the second was Mario. V:

K.Rool is the first villain of the DKC series.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No, that's DK. :V

And then the second was Mario. V:

K.Rool is the first villain of the DKC series.

Then what does that make DK64?

 

[yani]

What does being frowned upon have to do with it? ROB was frowned upon, as is Jigglypuff. That doesn't matter. And since when would Doc be frowned upon less?

Paper Mario/Doctor Mario debate: :fuuu:

Because it's making a third type of Mario when you can just bring back the second one that has already been in Smash. Bringing Doc back would probably be frowned upon too, but there's more reasoning to it

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo has a bias against Donkey Kong? Since when?

Also K.Rool is in the same league as Bowser and Ganondorf? Since when?


I don't think you need to include villains for a series for the sake of them being villains. K. Rool's not really that iconic, and I'd say the only thing he really has going for him is the odd popularity that he has (at least in the west). As far as the DK series being balanced though, DK and Diddy do fine as they are.

And on the subject of Roy, I used to be against his inclusion in another game, but at this point I think it comes down to whatever situation Smash 4's development goes into. I don't believe that Roy is at the top of Sakurai's to do list, and I think the FE13 lord does have a better shot and that's even if you consider the FE series getting 3 characters. BUT I do think Roy would be at the top of the list if Sakurai finds himself with spare time to make clones like he did in Melee.

Not as Bowser, but yes, K.Rool is easily on the same league as Ganondorf. He's been the main villain in all DK games par to Jungle Beat (which is a very neglactable game and hated by fans) and DKCR. And of coarse the ones where he 'himself' is the villain.

Zelda might have been around longer, but K.Rool has appeared way more as a villain in the DK games overall than Ganon was for Zelda.

Nintendo has a great bias against DKC because it toom them so damn long to actually have a great selling series as DKC have a propper return. After the Rare buy out, they let Namco made the horrible Konga games, and they themselves made Jungle Beat which starred a mentally unstable DK, and carbon copied DKC enemies, locations, and helper characters without using the ones Rare gave them. The game had ZERO elements from DKC, while they easily could just have Diddy as the helper Kong (instead of white monkies exactly Diddy's size and everything) and Rambi (instead of a goat), Enguarde (instewd or an orca) and Squaks (instead of... Helibird).

PAON where luckily the ones who brought back the DKC elements, and I'm grateful for them for that. But Nintendo themselves never did **** with DK, only push him back in that 80s wannabe King Kong role with Mario vs Donkey Kong.

And if Roy returns as a clone, why not keep Ike who is a better well knon character overall?

Y'all SERIOUSLY need to pick up some SNES classics... The DKC series where something not to miss out on.

 

[Starphoenix]

Mewtwo's Brawl trophy is a model rip from that Pokemon Stadium-like Wii game.

Still its something. It is just peculiar when you begin to analyze it with what we have speculated for so long.

 

[yani]

Still its something. It is just peculiar when you begin to analyze it with what we have speculated for so long.

Just to add , Mewtwo and Pichu are the only cut characters from Melee with trophies iirc

 

[ChronoBound]

PAON where luckily the ones who brought back the DKC elements, and I'm grateful for them for that. But Nintendo themselves never did **** with DK, only push him back in that 80s wannabe King King role with Mario vs Donkey Kong.

Nintendo Software Technology Corporation (a North American development team) is the one that does the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. They pretty much are the only ones keeping Pauline remembered.

However, Paon does seem to be the only one that incorporates K. Rool into their games since Rare's departure. Though K. Rool did manage to show in Mario Super Sluggers.

 

[Deleted member]

So why not give players a unique Mario in PM rather than a clone in Doc? Plus, iirc, Doc was the least popular clone that was planned.
Pieman: Since the fact that he's the DK series's main villain.

No, that goes to Toon Zelda/Sheik. Especially considering that Toon Sheik doesn't exist within the Zelda series.
(Don't delude yourselves in believing it was Tetra like I did, Sakurai outright stated that Toon Link has the same specials as Link "as a rule". Toon Zelda would've been no exception.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

K.Rool is not forgotten at all. Infact, everyone seems to want him regardless if they played DKC or not lol

Transformation is also Zelda's Down B. Not Sheik. Tetra could still have some similarities to Sheik, though I kinda have a hard time figuring out a moveset for her.

Though, she probably even has more potential than Sheik had anyway. Not as much as Impa, but I would've liked a different Zelda transformation for every Smash. Melee - Sheik, Brawl - Tetra, Smash 4 - Impa.

But it's not too late fortunately

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda might have been around longer, but K.Rool has appeared way more as a villain in the DK games overall than Ganon was for Zelda.

Uhh....

Ganon/Ganondorf:
The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II: Adventure of Link (revived from Link's blood if Link gets a Game Over)
A Link to the Past
Ocarina of Time
Oracle of Ages/Seasons (when linked)
The Wind Waker
Four Swords Adventures
Twilight Princess

K. Rool:
Donkey Kong Country/Land
Donkey Kong Country/Land 2
Donkey Kong Country/Land 3
Donkey Kong 64
DK King of Swing
DK Jungle Climber


Ganon's got more villain roles, dude.

EDIT: Remakes and ports not counting.

 

[ChronoBound]

As I said earlier today, K. Rool's heyday was pretty much 1994-1999 (Dixie's was from 1995-1997). Diddy seemed to become a Mario spinoff regular after Rare departed though.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Uhh....

Ganon/Ganondorf:
The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II: Adventure of Link (revived from Link's blood if Link gets a Game Over)
A Link to the Past
Ocarina of Time
Oracle of Ages/Seasons (when linked)
The Wind Waker
Four Swords Adventures
Twilight Princess

K. Rool:
Donkey Kong Country/Land
Donkey Kong Country/Land 2
Donkey Kong Country/Land 3
Donkey Kong 64
DK King of Swing
DK Jungle Climber


Ganon's got more villain roles, dude.

EDIT: Remakes and ports not counting.

Same amount. Oracle of Ages/Seasons ONLY when linked(meaning not so with each by itself) and not the ACTIVE villain in Zelda 2. 6-6. K. Rool is on par.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think the Blue Shell should be an item in Smash 4. When thrown, it will fly off the screen, and randomly return later in the match to hit however is in lead with stock/points/damage/coins. Would also be pretty powerful.

NOOO ROBOTNIK NO FOR BLUE ****ING SHELLS

How about this...

Blue Shell: When thrown, it'll operate exactly like a Green Shell. However, anyone who gets hit by the shell will be temporarily frozen; the effects are similar to being hit by a Freezie. In the Mario Strikers series, Blue Shells have freezing effects.

Spiny Shell: When thrown, it'll target the closest opponent, and attack it. It'll explode upon contact.

Nope. We don't have one of the biggest villains in Nintendo playable. And I'm NOT talking about Ridley. Not having K. Rool playable is like not having Bowser, Ganondorf, or Dedede playable. Unacceptable.

Agreed, 100%.

So Doc won't be a costume. Simply enough. I think he COULD possibly return if they want a 6th Mario character. I'd be much more cool with him than Waluigi, even if Doc is a clone.

I agree. I feel like bringing him back is a safe way to bring Mario to 6 reps.

Alternatively, Bowser Jr. and Toad can fill the 5th and 6th slots. Besides, Dr. Mario is better off as Mario's alternate outfit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Uhh....

Ganon/Ganondorf:
The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II: Adventure of Link (revived from Link's blood if Link gets a Game Over)
A Link to the Past
Ocarina of Time
Oracle of Ages/Seasons (when linked)
The Wind Waker
Four Swords Adventures
Twilight Princess

K. Rool:
Donkey Kong Country/Land
Donkey Kong Country/Land 2
Donkey Kong Country/Land 3
Donkey Kong 64
DK King of Swing
DK Jungle Climber


Ganon's got more villain roles, dude.

EDIT: Remakes and ports not counting.

Donkey Kong Land is no port, neither is Land 3 (Land 2, strangelt enough is but it has mostly different levels).

Also, Zelda 2 he has no real appearance except for that game over screen.

And the Oracle games, iirc it was not the actual Ganon, just a shadow copy? I don't know honestly, but Ganon(dorf) was just as many times the main villain as he was not.

And I said compared to the overall series, K.Rool has more boss appearances.

There are of coarse more Zelda games than Donkey Kong games, but if you already scrap Zelda 2 as you should, and add in DK Land 1 and 3 (especially cause the final battle against him in those games is much iddferent to their Country parts) K.Rool beats Ganon. Also remember that GanonDORF is in, who only had 3 final boss battles against him. The rest where against his pig form.

 

[Pieman0920]

Then what does that make DK64?

Uh...DK64? I just said K.Rool was the first villain of the DKC series, not that he was limited to the DKC series. Plus I've always sort of thought of that as part of it really, even if it was 3D

Not as Bowser, but yes, K.Rool is easily on the same league as Ganondorf. He's been the main villain in all DK games par to Jungle Beat (which is a very neglactable game and hated by fans) and DKCR. And of coarse the ones where he 'himself' is the villain.

Zelda might have been around longer, but K.Rool has appeared way more as a villain in the DK games overall than Ganon was for Zelda.

Is that right? *looks* Hmm, I think they are tied up at 9, though Ganon's are a bit iffy on some.

Still, the amount of times a villain makes appearances doesn't make the villain more popular or even in the same league really. They just show up a lot. Most people like Kefka more than Dr. Wily for instance.

Spoiler

Nintendo has a great bias against DKC because it toom them so damn long to actually have a great selling series as DKC have a propper return. After the Rare buy out, they let Namco made the horrible Konga games, and they themselves made Jungle Beat which starred a mentally unstable DK, and carbon copied DKC enemies, locations, and helper characters without using the ones Rare gave them. The game had ZERO elements from DKC, while they easily could just have Diddy as the helper Kong (instead of white monkies exactly Diddy's size and everything) and Rambi (instead of a goat), Enguarde (instewd or an orca) and Squaks (instead of... Helibird).

PAON where luckily the ones who brought back the DKC elements, and I'm grateful for them for that. But Nintendo themselves never did **** with DK, only push him back in that 80s wannabe King Kong role with Mario vs Donkey Kong.

Spoiler

That's not bias That's just going different places with the franchise. Heck, you're just complaining about aesthetics for Jungle Beat. And why does it always seem like those who are fans of DKC can't seem to recognize anything else about the DK series besides DKC. What about us F-Zeor fans, huh? Even if it had to be a bongo game or a weird climber game, dontcha think we want at least some acknowledgement

And if Roy returns as a clone, why not keep Ike who is a better well knon character overall?

I didn't say to get rid of Ike. <_<

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Oracle Games do have the real Ganon (Hyrule Historia even has a Ganondorf. :o ) but Links Awakening has a shadow version of Ganon.

 

[yani]

There's no way we can see Diddy Kong Racing music right?

 

[Pieman0920]

There's no way we can see Diddy Kong Racing music right?

We probably could. Nintendo did make that remake.

 

[ChronoBound]

We probably could. Nintendo did make that remake.

No, Rare developed it.

 

[Deleted member]

Rare owns the rights to anything from DKR other than Diddy himself, Dixie and Tiny in the remake, and Krunch, who is a Kremling.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yo I love the climber games. And there's a hige difference between DK and F-Zero anyways. Donkey Kong is known all over, F-Zero is lucky to have had Captain Falcon in the first place.

And it is bias if Mario Galaxy just got about everything Mario fans could dreams of, while Jungle Beat has everything worth of being a DKC nightmare. For the record, these games where made by the same company.

K.Rool is still mad popular though, and there's no reason to not include him in this one. The fact he already scores even with Ganon (not even counting thr actual Ganondorf we got in Smash) should say enough. And the fact you say it's even iffy for Ganon is already enough.

Diddy Kong Racing DS was made by Rare, but they couldn't use Banjo and Conker in it cause they appeared on XBox games thus belong to Microsoft. I would like music from it actually, as it was ****ing good ^^

So yeah anyways, there's more than enough reason to include K.Rool in Smash. Ever read up about complaints from DKCR? They are all mostly cause of the lack of Kremlings and K.Rool. While in the meanwhile, Skyward Sword fans enjoy their Ghirahim and Demise.

 

[yani]

I repurchased DKR:DS and I've been glued to it. I unlocked everyone and unlocked the four new tracks. One of the tracks sounds a bit like the music in the Donkey Kong Racing trailer.

I'd like to see a Krunch trophy at least..

The song for anyone interested.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Jungle levels ALONE are reasons why Rare really, really, really needs to make a proper DKC for the 3DS.

 

[Pieman0920]

Ah, didn't realize that about Diddy Kong Racing DS.

Anyways, Galaxy was in a different direction as well. Things have to change. If DKC had kept up, it would be another Megaman situation. Also there's DKCR, so whatever.

Also I certainly wouldn't say K. Rool is "Mad Popular" Heck, I'm trying to find a video game villain list that actually has him on it right now.

 

[yani]

@Diddy I wishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. There's the rumored Banjo Kazooie 3DS which I really wanna see. I'm not gonna bother with Microsoft next gen, so I'll take any Rare I can get on Nintendo handhelds

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley is actually a much closer comparison to Bowser and Ganondorf than K. Rool. Ridley has both been in the series since the beginning and has been in almost every game to the Metroid series as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DKCR was good, but it could've been much better. Overall, I don't think I'm much in a position to complain about it as it's finally... Something.

It's still bias though how Metroid got like a planned sequel right after Prime was made, but when asked if Retro Studios was making a sequel already to Returns they said we shouldn't expect any from them any time soon.

So yeah.

DKC bias.

Luckily Sakurai doesn't share this philosophy with Nintendo ^^ Nintendo themselves NEVER did anything with DKC elements in the... 10 years since Rare left.

K.Rool still beats Ridley. K.Rool was in every game except Jungle Beat(which didn't even had Diddy, or anything) and Returns. Both cases where received with complaints plenty. K.Rool even was playable in King of Swing, Barrel Blast and even a damn Mario game lol...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Two things:
1) Am I the only one who wants to see a Wart trophy in Smash?
2)Am I the only one who wants something like this in Smash?

 

[ChronoBound]

K.Rool still beats Ridley. K.Rool was in every game except Jungle Beat(which didn't even had Diddy, or anything) and Returns. Both cases where received with complaints plenty. K.Rool even was playable in King of Swing, Barrel Blast and even a damn Mario game lol...

I like how you ignore the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games and Donkey Konga games.

K. Rool missed A LOT of DK games.

K. Rool also did not debut with the Donkey Kong series, unlike Bowser, Ganon, and Ridley.

K. Rool pretty much was only a staple to Rare's and Paon's games.

K. Rool is certainly worthy enough to be playable, but he is not on the same level as those other villains.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm 21, learn and respect your elders boy HyperFalcon is 28 though or so he says.

Dang it, you got me by a few months. But hey, we're aderpderpdults, so you got to do what we say! *tries to think of a funny reference to EarthBound's opening*

I think its interesting how many of us feel DK will only get one newcomer (including myself), but generally everyone agrees that both K. Rool and Dixie Kong deserve to be in Smash 4.

I think there is a 100% chance we will get a Donkey Kong newcomer (along with Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong), and a 50% chance we will get two Donkey Kong newcomers.

The DK series has proper representation now. :V

Donkey Kong franchise: 47 plus million units sold; 2 playable characters in smash.
Kirby: About 17 million units sold; 3 playable characters in smash.
Metroid: About 16 million units sold; 1 player character in smash in 2 forms.
Star Fox: About 4 millions units sold; 3 playable characters in smash.
Fire Emblem: Less than 3 million units sold; 3 playable characters in smash (1 was cut).
MOTHER: Less than 3 million units sold; 2 playable characters in smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

K.Rool even was in the Konga games and in no way do I even consider Mario vs Donkey Kong to be legitimate DK games, especially if Mario is the only one playable and there are Shy Guys and **** in there.

Bowser didn't debut in the Mario games as villian in pretty much the same way. As it shares history with Donkey Kong. I, therefore, likemhoe you like to forget that little fact.

Besides, for Mario it was first a couple of Mario Bros. Arcade games before Bowser ever came to be. DK took a ling nice break till DKC became staple for the series, WHICH IT IS.

Seriously...

 

[Luco]

Can we all just come to the realization that Sheik isn't going anywhere (really, making Sheik cel-shaded like Zelda in Skyward Sword is easy to do), and that Impa is not going to magically replace Sheik=??? That won't happen. Geesh, this is getting ridiculous. Can't we just go back to starting a flame war over the Victini vs. Zoroark debate=???

On a side note, what do you all think should be done (if anything should be done) to modify Ness and/or Lucas' moves to make them more unlike one another (although they are pretty different) and to make them more like their characters in EarthBound and MOTHER 3.

Aww man, i would've wanted to be here for this discussion.

It's actually interesting to note how immensely different the meta game is with the 2 characters even with their similar moves. I'm not quite sure how i'd change them though, their current playstyle fits me perfectly so changing it i'm worried would alienate them to my playstyle. :/

 

[ChronoBound]

First couple of Mario Bros. Arcade games...

There was only one Mario Bros. arcade game, Mario Bros. The next game in the Mario series was Super Mario Bros.

Mario is interesting in that he actually spun off from Donkey Kong back in the arcade games (Mario and DK went their separate ways after Donkey Kong Junior).

 

[Diddy Kong]

What about the rest of my post?

 

[Pieman0920]

Yikes Diddy, you're just...yikes. Games evolve. Games need to try to make things different. Changing things isn't bias. Its just progression. Prime had elements from Super Metroid, but it also had a lot of things missing. Galaxy had elements from Sunshine, but also had a lot of things missing. The fact that DKCR didn't have a planned sequel doesn't mean that there's bias there either. It could just mean they accomplished everything they were trying to accomplish.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I didn't spend my money to have things changed I liked. Melee fans agree with me.

Change is only good when it's needed. Building up opon older elements is a good way to keep series interessting for the older fans.