New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Johnknight1]

See, that's just really really subjective.

Spoiler

Seriously, for the actual cutscene fights in Melee's intro past that initial stare down between Mario/Link/Kirby/Pika they are all have characters who aren't actually in the game. How weird. I guess you could say Mewtwo vs. DK is in there, but you never see Mewtwo

Yes, everything is subjective that we are discussing. But ask most smash fans which game had the better opening between Melee and Brawl, and they will say Melee's opening was better. Brawl's opening is basically just Subspace Emissary cutscenes. Melee and Smash 64's opening is about the characters/franchise and their history, and how they are gonna clash!

We all thought Ridley was gonna be in Brawl. Look what ended up happening. Anything can happen really. Zelda/Sheik could easily be broken up with Sheik being replaced by IMpa.

The difference is Ridley hasn't been in smash yet. Sheik was in the last 2 Smash games, and is Zelda's alter ego. No character in smash has ever truly been "replaced" in smash.
The only way I see Impa getting in is as a standalone Sheik clone, and that is very microscopic from what I can tell.

Not before considering she could very well get replaced for Impa. The timing to do so right now is perfect for that.

Because she had a minor role in the game. Sure. Okay. Again, it has virtually no shot of happening. You need to understand that before you get disappointed (ie: Ridley in Brawl).

Mario has quite some reasons to want to beat up Peach actually.

Dang saving her all the time is like having seven full time jobs. In return, Mario's got a cake, a couple kisses, a couple thanks, and he still has to pay the bills.

 

[ChronoBound]

What about the rest of my post?

In Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario is referred to as the SUPER Mario series, and the Mario Bros. music is actually under the generic "Nintendo" section.

So Sakurai could very well consider Super Mario Bros. 1 to be the first game in the Mario series (or rather Super Mario series).

By comparison, Sakurai certainly does consider DK Arcade games to be the beginning of the DK series, and Mario vs. Donkey to be a part of the Donkey Kong series (the stickers for it are grouped with the DK series).

 

[Johnknight1]

There was only one Mario Bros. arcade game, Mario Bros. The next game in the Mario series was Super Mario Bros.

Mario was also the villain in Donkey Kong Jr. There was another Mario arcade game. The "Luigi" in that game was purple. What was it called=??? It had to do with construction...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Mario was also the villain in Donkey Kong Jr. There was another Mario arcade game. The "Luigi" in that game was purple. What was it called=??? It had to do with construction...

Wrecking Crew.
There was also the Game and Watch called Mario's Cement Factory.

 

[ChronoBound]

Mario was also the villain in Donkey Kong Jr. There was another Mario arcade game. The "Luigi" in that game was purple. What was it called=??? It had to do with construction...

It was Wrecking Crew. I think it was released for the NES/FAMICOM and later had an arcade release in the form of the VS. games.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yikes Diddy, you're just...yikes. Games evolve.Games need to try to make things different. Changing things isn't bias. Its just progression. Prime had elements from Super Metroid, but it also had a lot of things missing. Galaxy had elements from Sunshine, but also had a lot of things missing. The fact that DKCR didn't have a planned sequel doesn't mean that there's bias there either. It could just mean they accomplished everything they were trying to accomplish.

Truth be told, all of that "progress" actually produced much worse games than the previous ones (ie: how Super Metroid is better in every way to Metroid Prime) in my opinion and most people's opinions. You seem to be mistaking "progress" (as in actually getting better) with "heading into a new direction."

Diddy Kong is right; Nintendo has generally had a bias against the Donkey Kong franchise. Even Nintendo Power has stated several times about how Donkey Kong Country is the most overrated Nintendo game ever. If you were a Donkey Kong (Country) fan, you would know this. Sakurai I don't think you can include in that, though (good). Dixie and K. Rool are two of the best Nintendo-owned characters left, and two of the biggest left.

It was Wrecking Crew. I think it was released for the NES/FAMICOM and later had an arcade release in the form of the VS. games.

That is the one. Several Mario games were released as both NES/Famicom games and Arcade games.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Two things:
1) Am I the only one who wants to see a Wart trophy in Smash?
2)Am I the only one who wants something like this in Smash?

1. Yes, because he was the first non-Bowser Mario antagonist and needs more love. It's sad how interesting characters like him and Tatanga are lost and forgotten.
2. I'd see it since Nintendo should consider having more techno music other than that one part of the Shadow Dragon Medley.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario is referred to as the SUPER Mario series, and the Mario Bros. music is actually under the generic "Nintendo" section.

So Sakurai could very well consider Super Mario Bros. 1 to be the first game in the Mario series (or rather Super Mario series).

By comparison, Sakurai certainly does consider DK Arcade games to be the beginning of the DK series, and Mario vs. Donkey to be a part of the Donkey Kong series (the stickers for it are grouped with the DK series).

Doesn't mean that the DKC series are not the best from the overall Donkey Kong series. Or not the most memorable. Donkey Kong has been based of his DKC model for example and just about every thropy in Smash is from any game besides the arcade games.

But hey, if Nintendo really wants to push the fake King Kong on my favorite series they'll lose a long time customer with me :/ I for example was serious that I wouldn't buy Brawl if Diddy was not in. These are the exact reasons.

 

[Johnknight1]

1. Yes, because he was the first non-Bowser Mario antagonist and needs more love. It's sad how interesting characters like him and Tatanga are lost and forgotten.

Oh man, Wart would be an excellent retro assist trophy/boss/non-playable character/trophy/playable character. I would love to see him have something noticeable in a future smash bros game. That Wart boss battle in Super Mario Bros. 2 was pretty much all awesomes!

 

[yani]

I'd like to see a Wart trophy

 

[Diddy Kong]

DKC triology = most UNDERrated Nintendo series ever.

Maybe excluding F-Zero, but we have a common enemy

For anyone interessted, it's Mario. Mario platformers sell enough for Nintendo to continue to neglect DKC, and Mario Kart sells enough to continue to neglect F-Zero.

Don't tell me it ain't true like that

 

[ChronoBound]

On the topic of Super Mario Bros. 2, I don't think Nintendo owns the original characters that showed up in Doki Doki Panic. The original four characters for that game were actually mascots of Yume Kojo festival at the time. So its possible that the characters that Sakurai mentioned having IP trouble about could have been them too.

 

[Johnknight1]

What Nintendo does to F-Zero is understandable, because those games never sold too well for one reason or another (the original F-Zero aside). But man is the F-Zero series totally awesome. F-Zero G/X = pure epic win in a bottle. That game is just straight up amazing.

What Nintendo does to Donkey Kong Country makes no sense. Each DKC game plus Donkey Kong 64 (aside from Returns, which so far has sold about 2 million units) has sold about as many units as the Star Fox series as a whole. Yet, we didn't get a sequel for over a decade. After Nintendo got ride of Rare in 2001, Donkey Kong was still the 3rd biggest franchise behind only Pokémon and Mario (the two franchises will forever be connected). Now. the Legend of Zelda, the Wii/Mii/Nintendo series, and even Nintendogs is bigger; all because they released low budget and low quality games for or a decade.

Now imagine Nintendo history if that had happen to the Legend of Zelda in 2001. BINGO!!!

@ ChronoBound
Nintendo owns the original characters from the game. That is how they got Birdo in Melee, SMRPG, and various Mario spin-off titles.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

DKC triology = most UNDERrated Nintendo series ever.

Maybe excluding F-Zero, but we have a common enemy

For anyone interessted, it's Mario. Mario platformers sell enough for Nintendo to continue to neglect DKC, and Mario Kart sells enough to continue to neglect F-Zero.

Don't tell me it ain't true like that

How is DKC underrated? It was their top selling series for years, and pushed Donkey Kong well into the top selling franchise list years after it died off

 

[yani]

On the topic of Super Mario Bros. 2, I don't think Nintendo owns the original characters that showed up in Doki Doki Panic. The original four characters for that game were actually mascots of Yume Kojo festival at the time. So its possible that the characters that Sakurai mentioned having IP trouble about could have been them too.

Well they own Shy-Guy. IIRC Shy-Guy came from Doki Doki too.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On the topic of Super Mario Bros. 2, I don't think Nintendo owns the original characters that showed up in Doki Doki Panic. The original four characters for that game were actually mascots of Yume Kojo festival at the time. So its possible that the characters that Sakurai mentioned having IP trouble about could have been them too.

What about Wart?
Why can't Tatanga get something? Why wasn't he a boss in a Galaxy game? I mean, SHEESH, in Mario Land 2, he was in SPACE ZONE. Jeezum.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How is DKC underrated? It was their top selling series for years, and pushed Donkey Kong well into the top selling franchise list years after it died off

DKCR should've been for GameCube, not Wii. That's why. Took em far too long.

 

[ChronoBound]

@ ChronoBound
Nintendo owns the original characters from the game. That is how they got Birdo in Melee, SMRPG, and various Mario spin-off titles.

Yes and no. Nintendo owns all the rights to characters that Nintendo created for that game. Nintendo did not create Imajin, Lina, Papa, and Mama though, and they are likely owned by Fuji Television.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yes and no. Nintendo owns all the rights to characters that Nintendo created for that game. Nintendo did not create Imajin, Lina, Papa, and Mama though, and they are likely owned by Fuji Television.

Yes, but nobody is asking for any of the original four character from Doki Doki Panic. Just their replacements.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yes, but nobody is asking for any of the original four character from Doki Doki Panic. Just their replacements.

And in my case, Shy Guy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which we all have. If er got their replacements, Peach wouldn't even make it cause most of her abilities are based from that. And I guess a bit of Mario RPG with that Forward Smash and parasol.

Anyone want me continue ranting on DKC?

 

[Johnknight1]

And in my case, Shy Guy.

Shy Guys were non-playable enemies. The playable characters that replace them were Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad.

Also, so far the only thing Wart has in smash is a reference on the Turnip trophy in Melee (it claims he is the ruler of whatever the dream world was called in that game).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Shy Guys were non-playable enemies. The playable characters that replace them were Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad.

Also, so far the only thing Wart has in smash is a reference on the Turnip trophy in Melee (it claims he is the ruler of whatever the dream world was called in that game).

That's why I said "and in my case". It means I want Shy Guy along with them, hence the "and".

 

[Diddy Kong]

We only need Toad now. Any maybe Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario. And tbh, I now actually prefer Rosalina above Dr.Mario and Waluigi to. Just remembered that littoe fact.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Poppy
As long as we're talking Shy Guy and not Wario and Luigi's one night stand mistake, it is all good!

Of course, that was before Wario learned that his farts can have babies!

@ Diddy Kong
I'll continue for you Diddy Kong! Donkey Kong should either have a new series like Metroid Prime, or the Donkey Kong Country series should continue to move forward as if the huge gap inbetween Donkey Kong 64 and Donkey Kong Country Returns (in other words, the "Return" was no time at all). I think doing both would probably be more finacially viable, given how well Returns sold, and that now there is much more awareness amongst fans that "Donkey Kong is back!" (Retro

Spoiler

Studios

revivals work-literally!)

That and stop with the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games. The first one was pretty good, but from what I played of the other two, they weren't all that memorable.

 

[yani]

I really want a DK64 sequel with playable Dixie

 

[Diddy Kong]

Exactly! I am kind of upset actually how Metroid go so much more attention than DK, and how they actually copied some stuff from NSMB. :/ Metroid Prime got all the highly realistic jungle enviorments, and even thoughh Returns is no way ugly, I really do not get the enourmous change of style which was needed. In that way, I actually respect Jungle Beat of staying more true to the natural atmosphere it had. But it's sad that a little spin off game as Jungle Climber is actually far more capable of carrying through the DKC legacy. Not that Jungle Climber was not awesome, in fact it's the best DS game in my opinion. But would expect a game called Donkey Kong Country Returns to have more you know, feel of being a DKC game.

 

[Deleted member]

@Pieman0920: You're not the only one alone who preferred Brawl's to Melee's intro.

Like you, I feel as Melee's intro was just cobbled up together just for the sake of an intro. Yeah it was good, but it's only really memorable because it's Smash. If a similar intro was done with another fighting franchise, it would be among the more forgettable intros.

What made the Smash 64 intro so good is that it had a unifying semi-plot. Every picture connected properly to the next one so that it would flow easily and the music was perfect for it. The developers really took into heart what they were doing and worked it as much as possible. I also liked Brawl's intro because it was mainly about characters coming together to stopping an evil force and the picture piece together a story that you would eventually be playing.

So my preference; 64 > Brawl > Melee

I would also like to see the return of toys. It was so cool seeing them do their fighting moves when you saw their profile in the original and I would love to see it again. For me, I'd like to see a mix of the good things that occurred in Smash 64 and Brawl. The zazy aspects of Smash 64 along with a connection to the upcoming story (with unique cutscenes of course).

I'll be getting the Wii-U version only unless there is enough for me to go with the 3DS.

DLC has soo many uses it's crazy to think Nintendo might not use it for a game like Smash.

Just got to hope they wisen up.

I hope that they would use it. DLC in Smash has so much potential and I want them to go all-out with online.

So when do you guys think we will get the Uprising OVAs?

Hopefully sometimes soon.

But I'm not exactly sure how the OVA is suppose to help their popularity any, especially considering it's 3DS exclusive.

I think Smash 4 is another three years away. At most its 3.5 years away. A very long time to be sure.

I'm getting the feeling that it'll be released late-December before Christmas in late 2014.

Chrono: Same here... though from the videos, still seems that Palutena doesn't do any fighting, hm. Medusa on the other hand...

Might even just mean that either Magnus and Dark Pit are only new reps. XD

Please don't let it come to that. I am heavily opposed to Magnus and Dark Pit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, yes the Melee intro was much better than Brawl's.

 

[Pieman0920]

Progression is what always happens, whether you like where the progress is going or not.

VGChartz says DKCR is at 5.45 million.

Anyways as for the DK series, from what I can understand, DKC1 sold very well, though consequently DKC2 and 3 sold poorer than the last. This is typical though, and its not something that was bad for the series as a whole, since the SNES was being retired at the time really. And even lower they sold well. After that, DK64 was the next big game, but that took a long time to get off the ground, since Rare isn't really that quick, and it had Banjo and other games being released to. That sold well, though not as well as DKC1, but I don't think that was really much of an issue. (Reception wise, I think it may have been sort of Brawl like where it was hyped up and then people felt more disappointment as time went on.) After that there was the planned Donkey Kong Racing, but that fell through and Rare left.

At this point it took Nintendo a bit of time to figure out what to do I think, since Rare was the ones who made the game, not them. The fact that they were going to change stuff here wasn't really bias. I mean if the whole old team is gone, then what do you really expect? Its not like they didn't try to make new DK games. They just tried something new, to little success. The Minis games seem to be moderately successful compared to other things after Rare left, but that may just be Mario moving the title. But anyways, they let Retro have it, and they made a real DKC game. It wasn't a rehash of all the concepts of the previous games, but really that's why its a different game. :/

Seriously though, its not bias. When you don't have the entire team any more, that's naturally what's going to happen. Also I wouldn't really trust Rare with making a new one anymore.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@ Poppy
As long as we're talking Shy Guy and not Wario and Luigi's one night stand mistake, it is all good!

Of course, that was before Wario learned that his farts can have babies!

@ Diddy Kong
I'll continue for you Diddy Kong! Donkey Kong should either have a new series like Metroid Prime, or the Donkey Kong Country series should continue to move forward as if the huge gap inbetween Donkey Kong 64 and Donkey Kong Country Returns (in other words, the "Return" was no time at all). I think doing both would probably be more finacially viable, given how well Returns sold, and that now there is much more awareness amongst fans that "Donkey Kong is back!" (Retro

Spoiler

Studios

revivals work-literally!)

That and stop with the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games. The first one was pretty good, but from what I played of the other two, they weren't all that memorable.

@Mario VS Donkey Kong series: That's because they made the playable character a bunch of damn Mini-Marios. T_T

@Shy Guy: I think of Shy Guy as a Yoshi rep, though, because he's in every one that is actually part of Yoshi's series(which IMO does NOT include Yoshi's Safari/Cookie).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Progress is only progress if there is actually growth of what was already there. Jungle Beat especially forgot that, but so did Returns to an extent. Therefore, I'm still not completely satisfied with the treatment of MY favorite Nintendo series, while Mario and the before hand lesser franchise Zelda get a new game almost every year.

DKC 2 sold well enough to though. I'll look it up.

 

[Arcadenik]

As I said earlier today, K. Rool's heyday was pretty much 1994-1999 (Dixie's was from 1995-1997). Diddy seemed to become a Mario spinoff regular after Rare departed though.

And yet Sakurai still considered adding Dixie in Brawl despite her not being relevant since 1997. That alone tells me that it doesn't matter if a character is no longer relevant to the series because if that character used to be a staple of said series, that's probably still good enough for Sakurai.

That's why I am hoping for DKC series' past mainstays King K. Rool and Dixie Kong to get into Smash. And I have said it before... and I will say it again... I wouldn't mind if Dixie Kong is solo, or teamed with Diddy Kong (as expected, because that's what Sakurai originally planned in Brawl), or teamed with Kiddy Kong (an almost unexpected choice, and yet it makes sense since it would be a spiritual successor to what Sakurai had planned for Brawl)

I wish Retro Studios would make Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 with four playable characters for multiplayer modes.... Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, and Kiddy... the four Kongs from the original DKC games... plus King K. Rool as the main villain and the Kremlings as the generic enemies... and bring back Animal Buddies like Squitter the spider, Enguarde the swordfish, and Squawks the parrot.

 

[Pieman0920]

DKC2 sold well. It just didn't sell as well as DKC.

And the things you've been complaining about are just visual things, like enemies and jungles apparently, rather than the game itself. :/

And the details of Metroid Prime's forests (I wouldn't really call them that) could just be you looking at them from a first person perspective, rather than a somewhat far away third person one. That being said, DKCR's levels were really nice looking.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ yani
A 3D Donkey Kong Country game with some elements of Donkey Kong 64 wouldn't be a bad idea at all
(except make Donkey Kong island huge like in the original Donkey Kong Country). That and maybe re-introduce old characters to the Donkey Kong series. Dixie Kong, Tiny Kong, Kiddy Kong, Funky Kong, Chunky Kong

@ Diddy Kong
Well I think Retro Studios will make another DKC Returns game. I honestly don't think they developed the game for too long or had a too experienced team. I think that game was ultimately just their new introduction to the series. While I agree the game was too easy and didn't have the full DKC feel, it was a huge step in the right direction.

I got a feeling this fresh, young, and hungry team at Retro Studios is gonna make a few classics; and one will involve Donkey Kong! Donkey Kong is getting back to relevance, so all will be well my child. Now, eat your peas, and then you can have ICE CREAM!!!

@ pieman
You could use your argument for The Legend of Zelda. Zelda II, A Link to the Past, and Link's Awakening had all sold less units than the original Legend of Zelda did. What if Nintendo just said "screw it, let's make cheap games with a bunch of incompetent baboons"=??? We wouldn't have had Ocarina of Time. We would have had monkey poo, like what we got in over a decade out of Donkey Kong. Imagine if the Donkey Kong franchise had it's "Ocarina of Time" on the Game Cube. It could literally be almost as big as the Pokémon franchise. There could have been 4 or 5 Donkey Kong characters in smash, and more heavily pushed for. It would be in the same state as Zelda in terms of what people want. We would already have K. Rool and Dixie, and Diddy Kong would be pushing Cranky down your throats instead of Impa, and someone else would say "NO! DK JR!"

Thankfully Nintendo finally realized "hey, the DKC series makes us money! Let's print more, and less Mario Party"... slowly!!! Thank God Nintendo is slowly realizing that making Donkey Kong into a monster-sized franchise is actually good for their company.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I want it to take place on Kremlin Island, like how DKCR was basically a remake of the first game (It had all the zones, just non of the REAL enemies)

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still however do not consider Sheik to be as staple to the Zelda series as Dixie is to Donkey Kong. Quite the opposite actually.

No I'm complaining for the lack of actual DKC elements, not just enemies and envoirments. Jungle Beat even went as far as adding in their own Kongs and Animal Buddies. How would you feel about a Yoshi or Luigi replacement in a Mario game? Not pleased I guess.

Also a reason why Impa should replace Sheik as soon as possible for the sake of not having a character trapped in 1998 in. Impa will probably be staple to Zelda soon. And Sheik probably will not ever return in a Zelda game not named Ocarina of Time.

 

[Arcadenik]

DKC2 sold well. It just didn't sell as well as DKC.

And the things you've been complaining about are just visual things, like enemies and jungles apparently, rather than the game itself. :/

The same could be said about Super Mario Bros. 2... yes, the game brought us series staples like Shy Guys, Pokeys, Bob-ombs, and Birdos... but back in 1988, fans were upset that the game didn't have Goombas, Koopas, Piranha Plants, etc. and how the gameplay mechanics was a bit different... and how it doesn't take place in Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[Johnknight1]

Sheik definitely isn't a staple in Zelda. Sheik is, however, a staple in Smash. That is all that (arguably) retro character needs.

@ Diddy Kong
Yeah I get that, too. I think some of them (Candy and Funky, for example) are too 90's-ish for Retro Studios' tastes. I do think that they should return though, except modernized, and in Candy's case, de-sexualized (Nintendo is fairly conservative). Again, DKC Returns is one game, and the only made by Retro Studios (thus far). We should wait and see to see what Retro Studios or whoever at Nintendo will do when they make the next Country game (which will happen if Nintendo wants to make money instead of lose it). I got a feeling a lot of the old stuff (characters, locations, enemies, bosses) will return, of course with a lot of new stuff.

And the Jungle Beat enemies and Kongs were really dumb. Like, Pokémon Coliseum character dumb.

 

[Pieman0920]

No I'm complaining for the lack of actual DKC elements, not just enemies and envoirments. Jungle Beat even went as far as adding in their own Kongs and Animal Buddies. How would you feel about a Yoshi or Luigi replacement in a Mario game? Not pleased I guess.

Honestly, I wouldn't care. Relying on the same stuff over and over again its pointless. May as well just play an old game. If I'm not fighting Bowser, but rather Wart, it doesn't matter to me. If I'm riding on a manta ray instead of Yoshi, whatever. Its the game I'm more interested in. That even applies to Smash 4 to an extent, though Smash has a large steak in the appeal of its characters.

Also Impa is a staple of the Zelda series already...sort of. I mean she's a reoccurring character, though not really iconic.

Also, Arc, replace Kiddy with Lanky, and we're golden.