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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Big-Cat

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AR cards seem like the next step in terms of trophies. Not only that, but it's an easy money making thing for Nintendo. Can you imagine making detailed trophies of every trophy in the games?

Come to think of it, combine this with the 3DS release, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of a technological motif in the next Smash. Maybe something kind of like Tron with holograms. It'd be kind of neat if the stun animation was the character's hologram was glitching out. It'd be a good way to give the game a sense of style it could use.

EDIT: I've got an exam in a bit so I should right this out before it clouds my thoughts.

Let's take a look with Sm4sh and the things surrounding it. For starters, this will be on the incredibly powerful WiiU allowing for a larger amount of details unseen on the Wii. Then there's the fact that competitive players will be given more thought during development now that balancing will be more of a group than an individual effort. Third, there's the 3DS release, something Sakurai is both eager to do and wants to give it its own appeal. That, and it seems he's quite partial to the AR cards.

So, what I'm thinking is that the game should finally be given a proper sense of style given these circumstances. Let's get the Smash series out of the Kirby series' shadow and give it a sense of artistic identity. So, I'm thinking, at the very least, that there be a hologram motif in Sm4sh. The motif symbolizes a couple of things. The first is the 3DS' 3D holograms coming from the 3DS camera and that we can have cards battle each other now. The second is that this symbolizes the evolution in technology. The WiiU is practically a sign that Nintendo is firmly back into its roots and better than ever thanks to the new power and the innovative ideas in the last six years. To expand on this evolution, gone are the trophies of Melee and Brawl, and now comes the ingame (at the very least) AR cards.

At the start of every match, an AR card appears along with up to four smaller AR cards in the background. The first one is the stage and the others are the characters. The first one releases a hologram that is the stage and the characters make their entrances. Each character is given a uniform, but distinct style to emphasize both the unity of the characters in the game and to celebrate their differences. Every time a character dies, an AR card floats above the ground with the character on top. During the Angelic state, the character will have loading lines going up their bodies.

Items no longer just pop up in the air, but rather rise out of AR cards. If the item spawns in the air, the hologram will come from the background.

Also, every AR card will look like the AR card-trophy-thingies so there's no generic look to the cards.
 

Metal Overlord

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The hologram idea sounds pretty sweet, Kuma, but the whole "technological" take on Smash could also come off kinda cheesy too if overdone.

Something like a high-tech All-Star rest area would be cool to see and like you said, help give Smash a lot more personality and style.

But they don't need to go overboard with it like, for example, making the whole Smash universe a virtual reality or something.

:phone:
 

Big-Cat

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Just reposting since people have responded:

Let's take a look with Sm4sh and the things surrounding it. For starters, this will be on the incredibly powerful WiiU allowing for a larger amount of details unseen on the Wii. Then there's the fact that competitive players will be given more thought during development now that balancing will be more of a group than an individual effort. Third, there's the 3DS release, something Sakurai is both eager to do and wants to give it its own appeal. That, and it seems he's quite partial to the AR cards.

So, what I'm thinking is that the game should finally be given a proper sense of style given these circumstances. Let's get the Smash series out of the Kirby series' shadow and give it a sense of artistic identity. So, I'm thinking, at the very least, that there be a hologram motif in Sm4sh. The motif symbolizes a couple of things. The first is the 3DS' 3D holograms coming from the 3DS camera and that we can have cards battle each other now. The second is that this symbolizes the evolution in technology. The WiiU is practically a sign that Nintendo is firmly back into its roots and better than ever thanks to the new power and the innovative ideas in the last six years. To expand on this evolution, gone are the trophies of Melee and Brawl, and now comes the ingame (at the very least) AR cards.

At the start of every match, an AR card appears along with up to four smaller AR cards in the background. The first one is the stage and the others are the characters. The first one releases a hologram that is the stage and the characters make their entrances. Each character is given a uniform, but distinct style to emphasize both the unity of the characters in the game and to celebrate their differences. Every time a character dies, an AR card floats above the ground with the character on top. During the Angelic state, the character will have loading lines going up their bodies.

Items no longer just pop up in the air, but rather rise out of AR cards. If the item spawns in the air, the hologram will come from the background.

Also, every AR card will look like the AR card-trophy-thingies so there's no generic look to the cards.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Vaztor definitely earned it. While Sakurai indeed made it out to be a party game, the game itself is still a fighting game with party elements. Or vice versa. Either way, saying it's not a fighting game is false.

Also, if we didn't make rules for Meta Knight, then yeah, it'd be a lot worse. He'd be the only character being played, or atleast winning.(note that he's mostly completely doing that with the rules)

We're not incorrect for preferring to play the game our way, and Sakurai isn't incorrect for how he made it. End of story.
 
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Smash should definitely get its own style. Seems like a good idea Kuma.

:phone:
 

Shorts

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How can we help out Zelda in terms of making her better? I love me some Zelda, but she needs work. What if all transformations got changed to the taunt buttons?

What does Bowser need fixed? Another character I enjoy being, who needs some help.
 
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Haven't really though much on how to improve Zelda/Sheik and Bowser, but Zelda/Sheik could use a 4th special.

:phone:
 

Opelucid

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I like Zelda as well I don't know what could be used to help her though, as for Sheik just restore her Melee self simple as that.

:phone:
 

Starphoenix

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Apparently Skyward Sword is going to have returning characters in the game, but they won't be Tingle or Ganondorf. This has me intrigued.
 

Shorts

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Apparently Skyward Sword is going to have returning characters in the game, but they won't be Tingle or Ganondorf. This has me intrigued.
Me tooo. Majora anyone?! Midna makes a cameo? Ummm.... those are my two bets. OH I HAVE TO GO BUY KIRBY! That's out right now correct?
 

Drclaw411

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Everybody posted their rosters (myself included), so the next logical step seems to be assist trophies. Here is my assist trophy list. I didn't include characters on my roster, so I included a copy/paste of my roster for reference.



Mario (six):
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Waluigi: He'd rep the many Mario spinoff games and It seems logical to add him at this point. His moveset could be based on all the spinoff games. He could have a Mario Kart attack, similar to Wario's motorcycle. He could also have a baseball bat, tennis racket similar to peach's, and a move that somehow referenced Mario Party. Maybe his up B?
Rosalina: Rosalina is a very important character in Galaxy. Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are two of the best games on the Wii, and are very important games in Mario's history. Rosalina is a logical add, SSB4 needs a Galaxy rep.

Paper Mario (one):
Paper Mario: Another original moveset, and a completley new playstyle is possible here. He'd be able to use his hammer and the Final Smash could be extremely creative.

WarioWare (one):
Wario

Yoshi (one):
Yoshi

Donkey Kong (four):
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool: he's one of the few long time Nintendo villains who has never made a Smash appearance. The Donkey Kong series is huge and needs more reps. Chance for an original moveset as well.
Dixie Kong: I nearly left her off, and I put her on cautiously. If only one new DK rep, i'd say K. Rool, but if she gets an original moveset, she certainly has enough support.

Zelda (five):
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganondorf
Toon Link

Metroid (three):
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley: does this really need to be explained?

Kid Icarus (two):
Pit
Medusa: Honestly, i'd almost say even with the new game coming out, keep it as just Pit. But with Sakurai making the new Kid Icarus game, and knowing how much Kirby he put into Brawl, I'm assuming they'll be a new KI rep and Medusa seems to be a strong choice.

Ice Climbers (one):
Ice Climbers

ROB (one):
ROB

Kirby (four):
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Yarn Kirby OR Prince Fluff: There is potential for a completley original and fun moveset here. Epic Yarn was completely different and should be represented. I also have a hard time believing Sakurai won't add another Kirby character and although he didn't work on Epic Yarn, it seems to be the most original and relevant choice available.

Pikmin (one):
Olimar

Star Fox (four):
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal: Along with Ridley, Brawl's biggest snub. Time to bring her in.

F-Zero (two):
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh: it's time for a new character from F-Zero. Only "original 12" franchise that has yet to get a single new characters. This takes Goroh out of assist trophy consideration as well, which leaves potential for a new F-Zero assist trophy.

Pokemon (eight including PT's pokemon):
Pikachu
Red (Pokemon Trainer)
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo: Can't deny his popularity. He's on track to being to SSB4 what Ridley was to SSBB. Everybody wants him in. Lucario and Mewtwo are different enough to keep both. No reason to remove an original moveset.
Zoroark: Black/White is going to get a rep, and Zoroark is as good a choice as anyone.

Fire Emblem (three):
Marth
Ike
3DS Fire Emblem rep: Ike and Marth are different enough to keep both. But with the new game coming out, and since Nintendo seems to use the Smash games to promote this series, it's likely that a character from the new game will be included. I'm leaving this open because I don't know enough about the series to narrow down one specific character, but I do recognize that another FE rep is likely.

Mother (two):
Ness
Lucas

Game and Watch (one):
Mr. Game and Watch

Golden Sun (one):
Isaac: Honestly, I don't know much about him. But he's too requested to be left off the roster. And he was an assist trophy.

Fling Smash (one):
Zip: Zip would be one of the most unique characters in the game. As a brand new Nintendo franchise, Fling Smash could use the exposure. Zip could be unique in that he is slow on land, but the fastest aerial character in the game. He could have very powerful aerial smash attacks as well. A lot of potential here.

Chibi-Robo (one):
Chibi-Robo: It's time this franchise got some love. Chibi-Robo has three games already made between NA and Japan (4 including new play control) with another rumored, yet it's still almost unheard of. Nintendo would do well to promote this character. Chibi-robo is an endearing character that is easy to like. He'd be very original with a creative moveset.

Captain Rainbow (one):
Captain Rainbow: It seems he'd be perfect for a Smash game. He is a superhero in his own game, so he'd already have a decent moveset. Besides, Rainbow vs Falcon would be really funny. In addition to being a natural fit, this could have a Stafy/Fire Emblem effect. Nintendo seems to like using Smash to introduce Japan-only characters and then bringing them over here. I could see it happening again with Captain Rainbow.

Doki Doki Panic (one):
Imajin: Let me explain this one. Doki Doki Panic is the game that became Super Mario Bros 2 here in the States, and Imajin is the character that became Mario. The game (and character as well, iirc) was created by Miyamoto. Without Doki Doki Panic, the Mario series would never have had shy guys, birdo, or anything else introduced in that game. Peach wouldn't be pulling turnips in Smash and the SSE may have a different name (the world you entered when you walked through all those doors in Mario 2 is called the Subspace). Imajin's game is a huge part of Nintendo history. I know the chances aren't great, but he is probably in my top 5 of most wanted and I couldn't bare to leave him off.

Wii Etc (one):
Mii: I'm actually thinking of a pre-designed, generic Mii rather than one of your own Mii's on the console. It would have moves based on wii sports, wii fit, wii sports resort, wii play, etc.

3rd Party (four):
Sonic
Snake
Megaman: Most requested 3rd party character not included in Brawl. The safe choice.
Viewtiful Joe: no third party character would fit better. His moveset in Viewtiful Joe would fit seamlessly into Smash. His game won several GOTY awards as a GameCube exclusive and every single game he has been featured in, with the exception of Marvel vs Capcom 2, has been on a Nintendo platform (sometimes exclusively). I admit he has very slim chances. But he is BY FAR my most wanted 3rd party and I had to make my case.

Perhaps I went overboard with 50+ total characters, but seeing as how Brawl has 35 characters (not including down B moves) and this game is on Wii U, as well as the fact that this is almost the norm (if not on the small end) when it comes to roster sizes for current gen fighting games, I don't think it's too bad. In fact, i'd even say it's might be what we can expect.



Vetrans:
Andross
Barbara
Devil
Dr Wright
Excitebikes
Gray Fox
Hammer Bro
Helrin
Infantry & Tanks (Advance Wars)
Jeff
Jill
Kat & Ana
Knuckle Joe
Lakitu
Little Mac
Lyn
Metroid
Mr. Resetti
Nintendog
Ray MK III
Saki
Shadow
Sta(r)fy
Tingle

Newcomers:
Bowser Jr
Goomba
Geno
Super Team (from Super Mario Strikers)
Kritter (Donkey Kong)
Cranky Kong
Birdo
Dark Samus
Black Shadow
Roy
Reaper (Kid Icarus)
MegaMan X
Louie (Pikmin)
Elite Beat Agents
Todd (Pokemon Snap)
Midna
Sexy Silva (Viewtiful Joe)
Mii (one of your own Mii's, unlike my Roster Mii, which is a generic Mii)
Count Bleck (Super Paper Mario)
Rocket Grunt (Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow)
Sukapon
Jiro the Armadillo
Claus
Tails
Tabuu (if he doesn't return as the final boss)


what do you think?
 

Starphoenix

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Me tooo. Majora anyone?! Midna makes a cameo? Ummm.... those are my two bets. OH I HAVE TO GO BUY KIRBY! That's out right now correct?
Right now it looks like
the Sheikah looking lady in recent trailers is to be someone familiar to Zelda fans, so says Aounuma. Which means the Impa correlation could be true.
 

JavaCroc

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Good god we need this song.

Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess - Sacred Grove
Imagine hearing that and fighting Skull Kid in an Adventure Mode Lost Woods level. Perfect.

I have this thing about waiting for a game to be released before I begin making stage concepts. Over all the stage sounds ok.
I wanted to do something different, and Rolling Western provided that. The music required some help, but I felt I succeeded in making a decent and faithful stage for the series.

Apparently Skyward Sword is going to have returning characters in the game, but they won't be Tingle or Ganondorf. This has me intrigued.
I'd hope it's either Midna or Majora. :) Looking like it's Impa, but Aunoma said they would consider resurrecting Majora's Mask or Midna if they grew popular, so there's hope. (They only referenced Majora's Mask returning as a 3DS remake if it's popular, but they didn't say it could also be applied to another game as a returning character)
 
D

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Skyward Swords is getting a returning character? Hopefully, it'll play at least a moderate role in the story.

Also, I have revived Create the SSB4 Roster series and looking to give it another go (Super Smash Bro on GameFAQs ran this previously on the Brawl Board). And I'm going to give it my own twist to it.
 

Opelucid

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Everybody posted their rosters (myself included), so the next logical step seems to be assist trophies. Here is my assist trophy list. I didn't include characters on my roster, so I included a copy/paste of my roster for reference.



Mario (six):
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Waluigi No he should stay as an Assist Trophy if anything, Toad or Bowser Jr. will get in before he does if he ever gets in any Smash game besides apparently he isn't in Mario Kart 7 so that lowers his chances a bit.
Rosalina Again no, she'd be an interesting character but I don't think she deserves a playable spot in Smash Bros. I could see her appearing as an Assist Trophy or as an alternate costume for Peach.

Paper Mario (one):
Paper Mario: I'm fine with this one he has a fair chance at getting in.

WarioWare (one):
Wario

Yoshi (one):
Yoshi

Donkey Kong (four):
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool: he's one of the few long time Nintendo villains who has never made a Smash appearance. The Donkey Kong series is huge and needs more reps. Chance for an original moveset as well.
Dixie Kong: I support her getting in, I think that King K. Rool should get in over her or maybe both of them it doesn't really matter to me.

Zelda (five):
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganondorf
Toon Link

Metroid (three):
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley: does this really need to be explained?

Kid Icarus (two):
Pit
Medusa: Honestly, i'd almost say even with the new game coming out, keep it as just Pit. But with Sakurai making the new Kid Icarus game, and knowing how much Kirby he put into Brawl, I'm assuming they'll be a new KI rep and Medusa seems to be a strong choice.

Ice Climbers (one):
Ice Climbers

ROB (one):
ROB

Kirby (four):
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Yarn Kirby OR Prince Fluff: There is potential for a completley original and fun moveset here. Epic Yarn was completely different and should be represented. I also have a hard time believing Sakurai won't add another Kirby character and although he didn't work on Epic Yarn, it seems to be the most original and relevant choice available.

Pikmin (one):
Olimar

Star Fox (four):
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal: To be honest I hate Krystal, if she brings something new to the plate I guess I won't resent her inclusion as much but if she's a clone then no.

F-Zero (two):
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh: it's time for a new character from F-Zero. Only "original 12" franchise that has yet to get a single new characters. This takes Goroh out of assist trophy consideration as well, which leaves potential for a new F-Zero assist trophy.

Pokemon (eight including PT's pokemon):
Pikachu
Red (Pokemon Trainer)
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo: Can't deny his popularity. He's on track to being to SSB4 what Ridley was to SSBB. Everybody wants him in. Lucario and Mewtwo are different enough to keep both. No reason to remove an original moveset.
Zoroark: Black/White is going to get a rep, and Zoroark is as good a choice as anyone.

Fire Emblem (three):
Marth
Ike
3DS Fire Emblem rep: Chrome... would be cool I don't know what he is able to do yet though so it's kind of early to consider him being playable. If he doesn't get in give the slot to Roy.

Mother (two):
Ness
Lucas

Game and Watch (one):
Mr. Game and Watch

Golden Sun (one):
Isaac: Honestly, I don't know much about him. But he's too requested to be left off the roster. And he was an assist trophy.

Fling Smash (one):
Zip: I don't know about this... he's not a very well known character and I heard his game sold poorly so I'm going to have to go with no.

Chibi-Robo (one):
Chibi-Robo: It's time this franchise got some love. Chibi-Robo has three games already made between NA and Japan (4 including new play control) with another rumored, yet it's still almost unheard of. Nintendo would do well to promote this character. Chibi-robo is an endearing character that is easy to like. He'd be very original with a creative moveset.

Captain Rainbow (one):
Captain Rainbow: Who? I'm sorry but he really isn't that deserving... especially over characters like Starfy, Saki, or Little Mac

Doki Doki Panic (one):
Imajin: See Captain Rainbow

Wii Etc (one):
Mii: I'm neutral on this one it would be interesting, I think they'll end up taking the Alloy's spot though.

3rd Party (four):
Sonic
Snake
Megaman: Most requested 3rd party character not included in Brawl. The safe choice.
Viewtiful Joe: We don't need two Capcom reps, if we end up getting a second third party character in this game it should be either Professor Layton or Slime.

Perhaps I went overboard with 50+ total characters, but seeing as how Brawl has 35 characters (not including down B moves) and this game is on Wii U, as well as the fact that this is almost the norm (if not on the small end) when it comes to roster sizes for current gen fighting games, I don't think it's too bad. In fact, i'd even say it's might be what we can expect.





what do you think?
Alright I rated it.
 

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鉄腕
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Impa? She appears in just as many Zelda games if not more then Tingle or even Ganondorf. So I doubt anything about her, especially when we already have Sheik.

As for the Wii U, interesting, but if I remember correctly, there was a rumored release date of sometime next summer but after E3 (I think it was July). So if true, then Europe will get it in August.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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I just had a cool idea for an item.
The fan from the Paper Mario 3DS game trailers.
Maybe Paper Mario's Final Smash... I dunno.

:phone:
 

JavaCroc

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Impa? She appears in just as many Zelda games if not more then Tingle or even Ganondorf. So I doubt anything about her, especially when we already have Sheik.
But she also hasn't appeared in a Zelda game in flesh since the Oracle games, not counting her cameo as a stained-glass window in Wind Waker. So she hasn't been in the series for a bit.
 

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鉄腕
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Really? Oh well I know next to nothing about the Zelda series anyway. Plus she has no chance anyway outside of an trophy cameo.
 

Shorts

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I'm hoping the Wii U gets a Fall/Winter release. More time for some launch titles to be developed, and tweak out any minor bugs.

Yeah, seing the origins of Majora's mask(I love the Twilight theory) or seeing Midna once more would be cool. If Impa shows up, I wonder if Sheik will? That would be awesome.
 
D

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Shortiecanbrawl said:
I'm hoping the Wii U gets a Fall/Winter release. More time for some launch titles to be developed, and tweak out any minor bugs.
You're not alone in that. I really don't want another rushed launch that is overall mediocre.
 

JavaCroc

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I'm hoping the Wii U gets a Fall/Winter release. More time for some launch titles to be developed, and tweak out any minor bugs.

Yeah, seing the origins of Majora's mask(I love the Twilight theory) or seeing Midna once more would be cool. If Impa shows up, I wonder if Sheik will? That would be awesome.
Agreed on the Wii-U release. The 3DS's launch suffered from a mediocre line-up of games. Let a good selection of games build up for the Wii U before they ship it to stores.

Well, if Sheik is in Skyward Sword, it would remove any doubts of her relevance and perhaps her significance to the Zelda series.

BTW, what's the Twilight theory? Is it regarding Skull Kid's appearance in TP?
 

Shorts

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The theory that Majora's mask actually originated from the twilight realm. I'm not too good at explaining it, but I'll leave the video for you to watch. It's berry interesting, and makes me happy because it links two of my favorite Zelda concepts together.

His voice is annoying, but good nonetheless.
 

ChronoBound

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Looks like we got two juicy tidbits for some Smash 4 character speculation.

First off, Tingle is not going to be in Skyward Sword. The last Zelda title he appeared in was Minish Cap, which was released all the way back in 2004. His only appearance in a game since Brawl was in the second Tingle DS RPG that was released.

Second, the dark-skinned blonde woman with the Sheikah symbol in the one of the more recent Skyward Sword trailers is actually a very important character in the game. However, the more important detail about her is that she is a character that "you might remember from another game". I am guessing this character is either Sheik or Impa. If its Sheik, perhaps serious discussion can begin to have Zelda's fifth slot actually be Sheik in her own slot (that is if, Sheik is an entirely different person in Skyward Sword and not an alterego to Zelda).

Here is the source for this information:
http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/10/new-skyward-sword-details.html
 
D

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@ChronoBound: Can't really say that's big news (in regards to Tingle, not sure about returning characters).

As fir Sheik getting her own slot, it would be nice, but unless transformation characters have gotten their own slots in previous fighting games, then I don't see it happening. Heck, even if that happens, I see her returning as an alter ego.

Also, I noticed you were a big participant in Create the SSB4 Roster in the Brawl board. I am going to be running another round on it on the SSBU board. Would you be interested?
 

Aurane

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@ChronoBound: Can't really say that's big news.

As fir Sheik getting her own slot, it would be nice, but unless transformation characters have gotten their own slots in previous fighting games, then I don't see it happening.
I'd love to see a pattern like Melee to Brawl. You had to hold a button in order to start as Shiek in Melee. In brawl,you can choose Shiek. But also, Samus must hold a button to start as ZSamus. So next up: Luigi to Mr. L :awesome: Hold the L button to start as Mr. L Lol
 

Oasis_S

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Whether Sheik gets her own slot or not sounds pretty trivial to me. I find it doubtful as well that Sheik would get her own slot, since Sakurai at least seems to view Zelda's transformation as her sort of... schtick. In Smash, separate from whatever is going on in LoZ, Zelda transforms into Sheik. I'm guessing that's the way it's always going to be.

Maybe if it's just to balance out the character select screen, lol.
 

Arcadenik

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Even if this mysterious Sheikah woman (if she's even a Sheikah) is Sheik and she is a separate person from Zelda in Skyward Sword, I still think Sakurai would have Zelda transform into Sheik and vice versa in SSB4. Zelda didn't transform into Sheik in Twilight Princess and she still transformed into Sheik in Brawl despite Sheik's lack of appearance.

If that Sheikah turns out to be Impa, then I would like for Zelda to get a new Down+B move while Impa inherits Sheik's old moveset with a new Down+B and Final Smash.

Also, if the Beetle is like the Boomerang in Skyward Sword, then I would like to see Link get that Beetle instead of Boomerang in SSB4 while Toon Link keeps the Boomerang.
 
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How can we help out Zelda in terms of making her better? I love me some Zelda, but she needs work. What if all transformations got changed to the taunt buttons?

What does Bowser need fixed? Another character I enjoy being, who needs some help.
Basically, you just need to play P:M

But if you don't feel like it then look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WExpQVvcOOk
Haven't really though much on how to improve Zelda/Sheik and Bowser, but Zelda/Sheik could use a 4th special.

:phone:
4th special? Please explain?
Eh....just like you do on a daily basis? :awesome:

sheesh I as complementing Toad, not like I was say RIDLEY SHOULD EAT HIM!!

:phone:
I'm only saying it's out of no where.

sheesh. Never said anything about it being bad

Wow, the thread was inactive today
 
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