New Smash Bros for WiiU

[ComradeCanada]

Probably because of it's similarity to the GC controller, at which point, why not just use that?

I play largely with the CC, since many of my controllers died, and liked it quite nicely.

 

[Aurane]

I love playing with the GC controller. I'm gunna try the Classic C soon.

 

[Oasis_S]

@Asage: Starfy and Wario? I give no damns.

 

[Aurane]

@Asage: Starfy and Wario? I give no damns.

Weren't u the one who suggested that? If not, my bad

 

[ComradeCanada]

I love playing with the GC controller. I'm gunna try the Classic C soon.

Biggest transit problem is the second joystick feels weird when compared to the C-stick. It's looser, so it's easier to do the wrong aerial, and that can mean death sometimes.

 

[Oasis_S]

Apologies? I give no forgivenesses.

 

[augustoflores]

i would welcome Sheik getting his/her own slot. Zelda should have link's variant of dins fire for down B.

many people have turned down my idea to move the transformation of switching pokemon to the taunt buttons... why has no one denied your talk of it? why weren't the higher ups here to belittle you too?

i originally had the idea to have taunts on the touch screen in the 3DS gameplay discussion group (which i then transferred to New Smash for 3DS Discussion). i still say it's a good idea even on the Wii U front.

i don't want skyward zelda to be playable... she's too... frail... i can only wish that:
A: Smash Bros has a completely singular and original art style or,
B: Zelda HD comes out first.

i would welcome an arcade stick... buut, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the idea to travel with your Wii U Controller? that you'd get jacked for carrying an expensive item?

also... i hate the beetle... Link doesn't need a boomerang or a beetle to separate the Link's links more, what he needs is the Sword Beam.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

I hope they don't use the Skyward sword character versions for brawl, but they
love to advertise their other games, so they probably will. I wonder how it will
change their moveset and abilities though...

Arcade stick for Brawl? WTH?

 

[Arcadenik]

About the sword beam, I think it could be a good replacement for the Bow & Arrows. Hold down the B button and Link would charge his sword like he already does in Skyward Sword, let go of the button and he slashes his sword forward and a sword beam comes out from it. Honestly, I am surprised he didn't have this in the original Smash. The sword beam is one of the few things Link is best known for since the first Zelda game.

 

[augustoflores]

holy hell chris, you've got 666 posts... don't post again and change your avi to something sinister... nah, i kid. you commented...
i wish that smash 64 didn't have the boomerang in the first place... adult link didn't have use for the boomerang, but i guess upon closer examination, i think it was the boomerang from the 2D zelda games.

sooo, what do you want link to have for his side b? and isn't bow and arrows like a signature thing for link?

WHY IS THIS PLACE DEAD!?

 

[Big-Cat]

Arcade stick for Brawl? WTH?

Get rid of the C-Stick and make the stick analog and it could work.

You guys might be surprised by this, but I've actually brought up both Melee and Brawl in a positive light for ideas over at the SRK SFxTK forum. It has to do with organizing the Gem System.

 

[augustoflores]

what is the Gem System?
*goes off to research*

it's like Materia?

 

[Diddy Kong]

About the sword beam, I think it could be a good replacement for the Bow & Arrows. Hold down the B button and Link would charge his sword like he already does in Skyward Sword, let go of the button and he slashes his sword forward and a sword beam comes out from it. Honestly, I am surprised he didn't have this in the original Smash. The sword beam is one of the few things Link is best known for since the first Zelda game.

Same for the Bow & Arrow...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Arcadenik: Link had the Bow & Arrow in more games than the Sword Beam. He's used it more, so technically he's more well known for it.

Likewise, the Sword Beam has had more than one style. Sometimes it's just like a quicker laser blast(First Zelda game), other times it looks similar to the Boomerang(A Link to the Past, Majora's Mask). In fact, how many versions have we had of its design?

The Bow and Arrow only ever came in two variations. Straight Shot, and Aimed(3D games). But it also had stuff like the Silver, Bomb, Fire, Ice, and Light Arrows. It's been showcased much more than the Sword Beam, and is more recognizable. Likewise, the Sword Beam isn't in most of the 3D games anyway.

 

[Johnknight1]

People don't use the CC because it can have frequency issues. Nintendo's wireless controller system is pretty primitive. Honestly, most of us smashers just Nintendo to have a wired controller, or a wireless controller that can have an attachable wire.

As for Sheik and Zelda, keep 'em together, but speed up the transformation. They both should be a tad below average characters that are great together. Sheik can wrap up the damage early, great close range attacks, and have a crap ton of speed, while Zelda can kill pretty early, has great long-range and magic attacks, and has an incredible recovery. In Brawl, they were actually much better when used together. Sakurai should try to find that magic again... but he should also actually make ZELDA GOOD!!!

The Bow and Arrow should stay with Link and Toon Link... or at least one of them. The beam sword... meah. Maybe it can be Link's up B. Link's up B usually sucks in every smash game but Melee anyways... >.>

If the Bow and Arrow stays, I think Toon Link's should either be a fire arrow like Young Link's in Melee, or the way they work would be different. That or perhaps Link could fire bomb arrows like in Twilight Princess (an awesome feature that should remain in Skyward Sword). Maybe have it to where Link can snipe down opponents nearly perfectly when it is fully charged.

Maybe give Link a slingshot as well. It could fire three shots (one going up at a 45 degree angle, one going straight, one going at a 45 degree angle down) without much range. I would say Toon Link, but I can't recall Toon Link using a slingshot outside of Four Swords Adventures (aka the worst Zelda game... which is still pretty good), whereas adult Link has used a slingshot in Twilight Princess and now Skyward Sword.

Really all these potential moves show that there are so many things you can do with Link/Young Link.

 

[augustoflores]

beam sword for up b does not compute... i think you mean side b.

 

[Steam]

while Zelda can kill pretty early, has great long-range and magic attacks, and has an incredible recovery. In Brawl, they were actually much better when used together.

you mean, zelda has one of the worst recoveries in the game and in brawl zelda is almost entirely useless in every single matchup? the only think zelda is really good for is against characters that can **** sheik with chaingrabs... even then zelda is so bad there's hardly any benefit to using her.

 

[Johnknight1]

Link's side B (his Gale Boomerang), while it sucks and is practically useless in Brawl, if it took some of the characteristics from Smash 64 and Melee it could be great.

Link's spin attack rarely is a good attack, in every smash game is a pretty awful recovery (except maybe Melee), and always has a crap ton of lag.

Link's up B spin attack always sucks, except for situational usage in Melee. Toon/Young Link, on the other hand, always has a much higher priority up B. That's why I think the smash bros development team should consider dropping that attack, or severely alter it. It hasn't worked good aside from Melee. Unless they make Link more like his Melee version (which they should), maybe make Link's jump height better with his up B, and make it a more legit counter with less after lag, it's probably going to suck again.

Regardless, Link's up B needs some serious overhaul.

you mean, zelda has one of the worst recoveries in the game and in brawl zelda is almost entirely useless in every single matchup? the only think zelda is really good for is against characters that can **** sheik with chaingrabs... even then zelda is so bad there's hardly any benefit to using her.

I'm talking about how Zelda should be, not how she is in Brawl. Besides, who wants any more than a few remnants of any Hyrule Tier character in any future smash bros game=??? After all, we're talking about Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, not Brawl 2. (THANK GOD!)

While Zelda was all-around terrible and in the Hyrule tier in Brawl (much worse than in Melee), and Sheik was basically made to get chain grabbed in Brawl, the combination of Sheik and Zelda as a team in Brawl was a step in the right direction.

Like you said, Zelda covers Sheik's bad match ups. Stuff like that should happen more with transformation/switch characters like Zelda and Sheik, the Pokémon Trainer, and any future transformation/switch/tag team characters (along with quicker change/switch//transformation times).

 

[Big-Cat]

what is the Gem System?
*goes off to research*

it's like Materia?

The Gem System, as Ono describes it, is Magic the Gathering meets fighting games. Their are two kinds of gems. There's the assist gems primarily to aid beginners in their execution. These gems come at some cost - eating up your meter when you don't get things like blocking or teching in. The other type of gems are boost gems which can boost up stats depending on the conditions for the gem's activation. For example, you could get a power boost after comboing so many hits or taking so much damage. The conditions vary and the conditions for activating them are stricter and/or risky as the value of the reward rises.

There's been a lot of controversy surrounding this system at SRK, for a few reasons. The first is that you cannot turn off gems. You can agree amongst players to not use gems, but the game is balanced with gems in mind (compare this to Smash where this is never explicitly answered). The other problem is that there is an understandable fear that the better gems will cost you actual money, but this has never been said. All we know is that the game will have hundreds of gems available from the start, so this might just mean that you can unlock more ala Smash or simply buy the code to have them unlocked ala Mu-12 in BlazBlue.

There are some reasons why the gem system exists though. Capcom said it was to address mirror matches, people having difficulty teching (when they start out at least), and the disparity between players of different skill levels. The first one is addressed by the fact that you can have any gems for your character to suit your playstyle so diversity amongst players who play the same character is increased. I consider the other two to be just training wheels because of how important meter is. Worst case scenario, assist gems are banned because they would provide an unfair advantage for the handicapped.

The reason I think the system exists is that Capcom is really trying to push the genre with SFxTK. Look at press releases describing the game and one of the first things you see is that they say its genre defining. Nothing in the game until the gem system was announced would indicate that. Depending on how things go, the gem system could easily be the traditional fighting game's answer to the accessibility that Smash has because of its simpler control scheme.

 

[ryuu seika]

Can we swap Boomerang with Bow so that Link Kirby can be good again?
Also, I want "Pound" back on neutral B so I can overhead throw jigglypuffs oncemore.

 

[Johnknight1]

Can we swap Boomerang with Bow so that Link Kirby can be good again?
Also, I want "Pound" back on neutral B so I can overhead throw jigglypuffs oncemore.

LMAO. Kirby should be able to steal not just the neutral B of characters, but forward B's in my opinion (and have different outfits for each move).

And Rollout needs to be more controllable, definitely. It could possibly even work as a recovery (the same goes with Yoshi's forward B), much like Luigi's forward B. That would be excellent.

 

[Oasis_S]

So I had some time to doodle Samurai Goroh before class today.

Bonus Little Mac and Mach Rider interaction.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oasis, you appeared right when I was wondering when you were gonna **** my mind.

And seriously, a Mach Rider-Little Mac team would be epic. It would be like Salt and Pepper. Ebony and Ivory. Mario and Yoshi.

Totally different, but totally awesome!

 

[Metal Overlord]

What's good, all you sexy *** mofos?

Is the topic we're talkin' about anything worthwhile?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Metal Overlord

About how Kirby should be able to steal forward B moves, why Nintendo should have wired controllers for the Wii U, and why quite a few retro characters should be considered or re-considered for Super Smash Bros. Wii U and/or Super Smash Bros. 3D=???

Do those matter? YESSS!!!!

How awesome would it be for Kirby to use Snake's launcher thing? The boomerang again? Pound again? PK Fire again?

How awesome would it be for Little Mac and Mach Rider to be a team, possibly along with the likes of Samurai Goroh=???

Could you imagine playing Smash Bros. Wii U with a crappy connection at a huge tournament where wireless controller connections are getting all mixed up=??? (like what Wii controllers are vulnerable to) That would KILL the game competitively until a solution was found, lol!

Also, anybody know if that one game that was revealed last week is REALLY the sequel to Takamaru's last game, or if it features Takamaru=???

 

[---]

Funny pic Oasis. Although I thought they were Toise Tokens not Bucks. So I think Goroh got ripped off.

@Johnknight: In the backroom you brought up in the info thread that Sakurai disliked Toad or something. Is that true and where can one find that statement?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Link's side B (his Gale Boomerang), while it sucks and is practically useless in Brawl, if it took some of the characteristics from Smash 64 and Melee it could be great.

Link's spin attack rarely is a good attack, in every smash game is a pretty awful recovery (except maybe Melee), and always has a crap ton of lag.

Link's up B spin attack always sucks, except for situational usage in Melee. Toon/Young Link, on the other hand, always has a much higher priority up B. That's why I think the smash bros development team should consider dropping that attack, or severely alter it. It hasn't worked good aside from Melee. Unless they make Link more like his Melee version (which they should), maybe make Link's jump height better with his up B, and make it a more legit counter with less after lag, it's probably going to suck again.

Regardless, Link's up B needs some serious overhaul.



I'm talking about how Zelda should be, not how she is in Brawl. Besides, who wants any more than a few remnants of any Hyrule Tier character in any future smash bros game=??? After all, we're talking about Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, not Brawl 2. (THANK GOD!)

While Zelda was all-around terrible and in the Hyrule tier in Brawl (much worse than in Melee), and Sheik was basically made to get chain grabbed in Brawl, the combination of Sheik and Zelda as a team in Brawl was a step in the right direction.

Like you said, Zelda covers Sheik's bad match ups. Stuff like that should happen more with transformation/switch characters like Zelda and Sheik, the Pokémon Trainer, and any future transformation/switch/tag team characters (along with quicker change/switch//transformation times).

Link is pretty bad yeah. He relies or relied way too much on his projectiles, especially his bombs. Moreso in Melee, when the boomerang was still good.

I wouldn't mind if they took out his bombs, and made the Spin Attack his down B. And make it as it was in Melee again. Keep the charge as optional (as in, only charge when you hold the button) or maybe make it as in TP, with the Great Spin? That'd mean, double range and power if Link has 0%.

Up B could be something Skyward Sword related. I'm sure they could think of something. I'd rather not have the beetle as a side B though. Here the Sword Beam could fit I say.

Edit: Forgot about the Bow. I think it would be cool if you would be able to walk around, and aim with the it. They should make it less powerful then though, but no problem.

 

[Big-Cat]

It'd be really nice if Link could be the Dante of Smash. He has so many tools to use from his games that never see the light of day in Smash.

 

[Oasis_S]

Edit: Forgot about the Bow. I think it would be cool if you would be able to walk around, and aim with the it. They should make it less powerful then though, but no problem.

I really, REALLY like that idea. Essentially cracker launcher mechanics, right? Just with the ability to charge up a shot.

 

[Deleted member]

So I had some time to doodle Samurai Goroh before class today.

Bonus Little Mac and Mach Rider interaction.

You would make a solid comedic artist.

On another topic, Create the SSB4 Roster is in Day Two for those that are interested. It is nominating characters for it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who is Dante? Sorry am probably too much of a Nintendo ***.

But I agree. Link could have many sort of items or moves, but instead we get... Bombs. Did anyone ever really used bombs to fight in Zelda, ever? I didn't (except for Bomb Arrows, which is the only reason I would be ok again with bombs- if they make those.. imagine the power).

Edit:

I really, REALLY like that idea. Essentially cracker launcher mechanics, right? Just with the ability to charge up a shot.

Yes sort of, but maybe not exactly like the Cracker Launcher but similar yes. Maybe only aimable in 45 degrees up and down, and in between. And moving would be possible, but not jumping or turning around. Charging could stay, but I want the move to be usable without charging too much (as in, doing about 9 to 10 damage without charge). To counter that, make the Sword Beam slower, but more powerful and less ranged to balance the need for something more powerful.

 

[Oasis_S]

Y'know, he could be more like Snake. He has so many items, some could probably make it into his normal attacks.

@SSBF: The chance of me doing this: 8D is 100%.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Diddy Kong: Trying beating Zelda I, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, hell, all of the 3D games, without Bombs.

Also, contrary to popular belief, people do use it when fighting in SSB. Not as much at the Boomerang, perhaps, but there's also Bomb Jumping. They get used.

 

[Shorts]

First off, Tingle is not going to be in Skyward Sword. The last Zelda title he appeared in was Minish Cap, which was released all the way back in 2004. His only appearance in a game since Brawl was in the second Tingle DS RPG that was released.

Well looks like he's still relevant.

you mean, zelda has one of the worst recoveries in the game and in brawl zelda is almost entirely useless in every single matchup? the only think zelda is really good for is against characters that can **** sheik with chaingrabs... even then zelda is so bad there's hardly any benefit to using her.

Steam strikes again! This time, me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

@Diddy Kong: Trying beating Zelda I, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, hell, all of the 3D games, without Bombs.

Also, contrary to popular belief, people do use it when fighting in SSB. Not as much at the Boomerang, perhaps, but there's also Bomb Jumping. They get used.

Didn't you read my post? I said that Link relies too much in his Bombs, I meant that as Link as a playable Smash character. I know about bomb jumping. It was only in Melee though, and Young Link and Samus could do it to.

Bombs where only really needed to blow up rocks and walls in Zelda, never for combat. Except in TP with the Bomb Arrows. And that's why I want them gone.

Right now every Link player, no mather what Smash game and heck, no mather what variation of Link has relied his strategy mostly around bombs. It's imo waste of the character, and I think there are many better options.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Didn't you read my post? I said that Link relies too much in his Bombs, I meant that as Link as a playable Smash character. I know about bomb jumping. It was only in Melee though, and Young Link and Samus could do it to.

Bombs where only really needed to blow up rocks and walls in Zelda, never for combat. Except in TP with the Bomb Arrows. And that's why I want them gone.

Right now every Link player, no mather what Smash game and heck, no mather what variation of Link has relied his strategy mostly around bombs. It's imo waste of the character, and I think there are many better options.

Then go show a new way of playing him. Or make a topic with it. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Also, no, Bomb Jumping was used in the first Smash as well. Remember, his recovery is beyond crap in the game, and it gave him a second jump. Even if Melee first used the idea, he still did in 64. And frankly, the Bomb Arrows were TP and Link's Awakening specific(so far). If he wasn't going to get them in Brawl, why would he get them in SSB4? When he no longer uses them. Young Link could, since he used them first in LA, but that's it.

And unless you're talking about every Link player in the competitive scene, you'd be wrong. I know a Link player who's entire strategy is around his Boomerang. In every game.

 

[Johnknight1]

@Johnknight: In the backroom you brought up in the info thread that Sakurai disliked Toad or something. Is that true and where can one find that statement?

Sakurai didn't dislike Toad (he made him a part of Peach's move set, after all). He just mentioned back in like 2002 or 2003 that he couldn't imagine Toad fighting on his own.

I think it was on the Melee Dojo, and if not it was in some interview. But then again, that's a comment that is about a decade old. With Toad's increased relevance, Sakurai's opinion may very well have changed. On top of that, the Smash Bros development team will probably have more of an impact on roster selections, and Toad will definitely be considered.

Link is pretty bad yeah. He relies or relied way too much on his projectiles, especially his bombs. Moreso in Melee, when the boomerang was still good.

I wouldn't mind if they took out his bombs, and made the Spin Attack his down B. And make it as it was in Melee again. Keep the charge as optional (as in, only charge when you hold the button) or maybe make it as in TP, with the Great Spin? That'd mean, double range and power if Link has 0%.

Up B could be something Skyward Sword related. I'm sure they could think of something. I'd rather not have the beetle as a side B though. Here the Sword Beam could fit I say.

Edit: Forgot about the Bow. I think it would be cool if you would be able to walk around, and aim with the it. They should make it less powerful then though, but no problem.

Link needs stronger arrows (or a more original move like bomb arrows, ice arrows, some new form of arrows), possibly the ability to fire it like a sniper when fully charged. That or he needs a new neutral B, or needs to copy Toon Link or Young Link's arrows.

Bombs could stay, but I think either Link or Toon Link need to change that move, or it needs to be very different. Have maybe Toon Link drop small-range bombs, but in clusters, whereas Link could drop bigger bombs, perhaps being able to throw them.

I also think the super spin attack from the Wind Waker should be applied to Toon Link, and the super spin attack from Twilight Princess (or Skyward Sword) should be implemented in Link. I also they both should be able to move while charging their spin attacks.

Link's ultimate problem is this: in each smash game, too few of his moves are good, especially among his specials. In Smash 64, his up B sucked. In Melee, his arrows sucked, and his bombs had minimal priority, while his up B was only good because of it's range. In Brawl, the gale boomerang made the boomerang worthless (whereas Toon Link is pretty good with his normal boomerang), the spin attack sucks (I agree that it needs to change), the bow and arrow is okay, and the bombs are meah. Worst of all in Brawl, Link can't chain attacks together or control the foe quite like Toon Link with his speed and ability to dominate on offense.

That comment about the bow is perfect for Link and Toon Link. I think they both should be able to walk around with their projectiles is genius. The same goes with all other chargeable projectiles IMO, and maybe even Donkey Kong's neutral B super punch.

It'd be really nice if Link could be the Dante of Smash. He has so many tools to use from his games that never see the light of day in Smash.

It would be interesting to see Link use moves such as the Magic Wand from the Legend of Zelda, the hammer from A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, the ball and chain from Twilight Princess, and now the whip from Skyward Sword. These don't have to be just the special attacks. One or two of these could be tilt attacks, smash attacks, aerials, or perhaps a part of his grab.

Maybe Link or Toon Link could also have an attack or two that shoots the famed Legend of Zelda/A Link to the Past beam out from the sword. That could be interesting. Or... maybe give that to Ganondorf... once he gets his sword!!!!

Edit: Link is broken. He was a low tier character in Melee (like ranked 16 out of 26), and a bottom tier in both Smash 64 and Brawl. He is broken, and he does need to be fixed. He's been too awful for too long, no matter what pinheads like IGN say. Either buff him up, give his moves some new features, or give him some new moves. Link, Ness, and Yoshi are the only original twelve characters to be on the bottom end of the tiers in each smash bros game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't get your thing (---) with having Mewtwo using the pokemon special stuff

But you seem against the anime stuff

 

[---]

Sakurai didn't dislike Toad (he made him a part of Peach's move set, after all). He just mentioned back in like 2002 or 2003 that he couldn't imagine Toad fighting on his own.

I think it was on the Melee Dojo, and if not it was in some interview. But then again, that's a comment that is about a decade old. With Toad's increased relevance, Sakurai's opinion may very well have changed. On top of that, the Smash Bros development team will probably have more of an impact on roster selections, and Toad will definitely be considered.

O.k. Sorry, I did the post off the top of my head so that's my mistake saying he disliked him.

Still that's a lot of "if" statements there so it's hard to say, but I have no doubt in my mind that Toad is much better off getting in this time around then in past games.

I think we're back to square one one the Mario reps though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Then go show a new way of playing him. Or make a topic with it. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Also, no, Bomb Jumping was used in the first Smash as well. Remember, his recovery is beyond crap in the game, and it gave him a second jump. Even if Melee first used the idea, he still did in 64. And frankly, the Bomb Arrows were TP and Link's Awakening specific(so far). If he wasn't going to get them in Brawl, why would he get them in SSB4? When he no longer uses them. Young Link could, since he used them first in LA, but that's it.

And unless you're talking about every Link player in the competitive scene, you'd be wrong. I know a Link player who's entire strategy is around his Boomerang. In every game.

Forgot about 64 for a minute, but yeah...

I was not criticising Link players, I very well know that projectile spam is Link's game. And of coarse, play to win. I just don't like it like it's been done so far. See my earlier suggestions about the Bow. If they changed the Bow to that, there'd be no need for Boomerangs or bombs.

Spin Attack / Great Spin for Down B, Sword Beam for side B and a new up B is what I want. Maybe change his Nair and Bair to something more similar to Toon Link's as well. It seemed to work kinda well for Toon Link so to say. And seeing it's probably Skyward Sword Link we're getting, Link should not feel so clumpsy in the air no more.