New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Forgot about 64 for a minute, but yeah...

I was not criticising Link players, I very well know that projectile spam is Link's game. And of coarse, play to win. I just don't like it like it's been done so far. See my earlier suggestions about the Bow. If they changed the Bow to that, there'd be no need for Boomerangs or bombs.

Spin Attack / Great Spin for Down B, Sword Beam for side B and a new up B is what I want. Maybe change his Nair and Bair to something more similar to Toon Link's as well. It seemed to work kinda well for Toon Link so to say. And seeing it's probably Skyward Sword Link we're getting, Link should not feel so clumpsy in the air no more.

His Air game wouldn't change because of different B Moves. That's mostly his Air A Moves. Likewise, that's mostly because he's a heavy character(which would most likely be because he technically has a ton of items on his person, so why not make him heavy?)

And I don't see an actual problem with his Sword Spin, Boomerang, Bow, and Bombs. All of those are extremely iconic to the character. You said yourself that the Bombs were a major part of his metagame. That's a good reason for it to STAY, actually. I don't want Bomb Arrows. He used regular Arrows first. Bomb Arrows have been in two games. The Boomerang(and variations of it, which is still a boomerang) has been in multiple games. Likewise, we shouldn't get rid of one of his iconic weapons for no good reason.

Ignoring his B moves, which are fine the way they are anyway, his Air Moves are arguable. I can't really think of something better either. The Down Stab and Up Stab are iconic. His Sex Kick(Air A) is fine. Both his Back and Front Air work as well. The only things I think he needs is a better overall jump, faster running speed, and perhaps some changes to his ground game. Likewise, a Final Smash that's specific to his character, and you know, related to his games.

 

[Shorts]

I want character who builds barriers and sheilds. That would be an interesting character to play as. A very defensive character. Like, maybe one sheild surrounds their body and reflects projectiles. While others are physical barriers the character can make, forcing the opponent to jump over them. Mayber she has a moving wall, you could use to prevent recovories?

I dunno, I like the idea of a barrier based character.

 

[Johnknight1]

O.k. Sorry, I did the post off the top of my head so that's my mistake saying he disliked him.

Still that's a lot of "if" statements there so it's hard to say, but I have no doubt in my mind that Toad is much better off getting in this time around then in past games.

I think we're back to square one one the Mario reps though.

Yeah no problem. I understand that it sounds confusing. Toad move set ideas nearly a decade ago to now are completely different, thanks to Paper Mario's prominence, Toad being a more common character in Mario, and Toad being playable in the recent NEW Super Mario Bros. games. Toad has so much more information, moves, and possibles to draw upon to make a solid move set for Toad.

As for Mario representatives, I still think Paper Mario is pretty close to a shoe-in. I have a hard time seeing one of the next two smash bros. games without Paper Mario as a playable character. The series has just gotten so big, and there is just so much to work with, and so much potential Paper Mario could have in terms of his move set, abilities, uniqueness, and his original play style.

As for Link, he can rely on projectiles. My Toon Link relies on projectiles in Brawl, but I ain't no camper. Likewise, using projectiles doesn't make him a campy character. The problem is his projectiles aren't that good. Link seemed to get all the bad qualities of the two Links, while Toon Link got nearly all of their bad qualities. In each smash game, Link has at least one near useless projectile, and his spin attack in each game is nearly always nearly useless. Link also could probably do without his sex kick (make it some sort of quick slash) and his back air needs to be more.. violent. Make it like a much stronger slash, or a strong stab. Maybe change his down tilt to a quick stab down, and maybe make his up smash one violent super wide and powerful smash attack. That would be AWESOME!!!

Also dang it: Link's and Toon Link's forward smash needs to automatically hit the opponent on the second hit if the first hit lands. That gives that move much more priority.

 

[---]

I don't get your thing (---) with having Mewtwo using the pokemon special stuff

But you seem against the anime stuff

Well that's an out of the blue question.

Anyway I'm not completely against the anime. I grew up with it and I still do watch some episodes online, and I do think it's getting better.

My only problem with the anime is that it often overshadows the games. I've met people who see the anime and won't even go near the games, often taunting those who do, like myself. Heck they often think PT Red is Ash and just laugh at him.

But overall I did read Special when I was a kid in addition to the anime and in the end I enjoyed it much better due to the more developed, interesting and non-repetitive filler plots, the more mature nature, larger character development, and the many references that linked the games together better then the games themselves. And based on reviews, comments made by Satoshi Taijri, and most Pokemon fans, those who read the manga instantly prefer it to the anime.

As for the Mewtwo spoon thing, personally I think it would be cool to have him use. So I guess you can say it's a character I'd like to see.

And with all the new moves Mewtwo has now, the cry for him to be buffed/revamped, and Jigglypuff getting her FS based off Special. The manga being reprinted around the world. Not to mention the manga was Mewtwo's first major appearance in Pokemon Media, I think it'd be nice and fun option to take into consideration in a similar way to how Zelda fans want Ganondorf to use his sword. I doubt it'll happen but you never know.

 

[Diddy Kong]

His Air game wouldn't change because of different B Moves. That's mostly his Air A Moves. Likewise, that's mostly because he's a heavy character(which would most likely be because he technically has a ton of items on his person, so why not make him heavy?)

And I don't see an actual problem with his Sword Spin, Boomerang, Bow, and Bombs. All of those are extremely iconic to the character. You said yourself that the Bombs were a major part of his metagame. That's a good reason for it to STAY, actually. I don't want Bomb Arrows. He used regular Arrows first. Bomb Arrows have been in two games. The Boomerang(and variations of it, which is still a boomerang) has been in multiple games. Likewise, we shouldn't get rid of one of his iconic weapons for no good reason.

Ignoring his B moves, which are fine the way they are anyway, his Air Moves are arguable. I can't really think of something better either. The Down Stab and Up Stab are iconic. His Sex Kick(Air A) is fine. Both his Back and Front Air work as well. The only things I think he needs is a better overall jump, faster running speed, and perhaps some changes to his ground game. Likewise, a Final Smash that's specific to his character, and you know, related to his games.

I like Link's Final Smash honestly. How is it not related to Zelda?

Bombs may be iconic, but they aren't so iconic in combat. Besides, they don't even work in Smash how they do in Zelda. I don't think it'll change either. But I feel it's just stupid. And uncreative.

Running speed needs change yes, jumping needs change yes, and he needs better ground moves indeed. Smashes are fine except Fsmash. Make that basically Toon Link's, and it's all fine and dandy.

Medussa from Kid Icarus could be a barrier character imo? She seems kinda like a character like that, at least in apperance. Don't know anything else about her, never played Kid Icarus. My version of Mewtwo has him with better powershield options to (amongst things), so don't know if that counts?

 

[Johnknight1]

I want character who builds barriers and sheilds. That would be an interesting character to play as. A very defensive character. Like, maybe one sheild surrounds their body and reflects projectiles. While others are physical barriers the character can make, forcing the opponent to jump over them. Mayber she has a moving wall, you could use to prevent recovories?

I dunno, I like the idea of a barrier based character.

Barrier, shield, invincible and counter moves? Okay. You got Pit's shield (which probably needs some overhaul), some moves invincible/unflinchable frames with some of the heavier and stronger characters, and counter moves in Game and Watch (it needs to be redone IMO), Lucario, and the Fire Emblem characters.

Barrier-based characters=??? NO! I don't want smash to be slow and campy. I prefer smash when defense is spacing and perfectly timed shielding and dodging, not random

Making a barrier-based character or defensive based fighting game is just too hard to do without the game being somewhat stale.

Spoiler

*coughBrawlespeciallyagainstPitmainswhorunawaywiththeirfairywingscough*

In a perfect world? Sure. That would make the game better. But in a world full of spamming, stalling, and camping morons who refuse to play offense without you approaching them? HELL NO!!!

It's not that your idea is bad Shortie-I rather like it. But trust me, if a character had more than the automatic defensive stuff (infinite air dodges, side step dodging, spacing, shields) and you gave them a counter attack, some better shields, and shields or barriers that force your opponent to do things? The chance of it being broken is just too big IMO to be worth the risk.

Imagine Meta Knight in Brawl with two or three counter/barrier moves like the ones you mentioned. That would make you want to tear your face off.

IMO a better and less likely to be broken approach would be if there was perfect shielding again like in Melee. Like when someone fired a projectile, you shield it at the right time, and the projectile fires back at their direction.

Maybe also make it to where if you perfect shield an attack, it stuns your opponent for about 5 frames (1/10 a second, of coursed added to the previous moves' after lag). That would allow who is the attacker and who is the defender to change-without the previous attacker having enough stun time to allow a big hit, if any hit (unless they went for the kill with like a Falcon Punch).

Then again, even this idea could be broken. Defensive options can really make or break a game, or make it stale and slow too often. Pretty much every fighting game is primarily based on offense. If defense overshadows offense moreso than Brawl, then most of us aren't going to like the next smash bros. game too much. IMO fighting games should allow not just great offense to beat good defense, but good offense to beat good defense, while on the flip side great defense beats good offense, which sets the other side up to dominate on offense. If that's what you're trying to get at Shortie-a defensive playing style that makes a character more offensive-if it was executed well-could be very interesting.

 

[Oasis_S]

Perhaps Medusa could be the more offensive character, while Palutena is more defensive, IN-LINE with what Shorts had in mind?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I like Link's Final Smash honestly. How is it not related to Zelda?

Show me one game where he attacks similar to the Omnislash. He never has. He's never used the Triforce like that before. It was made up, and given a name as an excuse to relate it to the Zelda seris.

Bombs may be iconic, but they aren't so iconic in combat. Besides, they don't even work in Smash how they do in Zelda. I don't think it'll change either. But I feel it's just stupid. And uncreative.

Zelda I says Hi. Try to beat those Darknuts without Bombs. And of course they don't. Almost nothing works the exact same way in the original game. Unless it's a fighting game character. That's how you translate moves from an Action game to a Fighting game. And that's completely subjective. I love using his most iconic abilities and weapons to their fullest potential. The only moves I don't like is his Bow, and it could've been something like his Hammer. Why that? It's still iconic, but it gives him a powerful move right off the bat. Something he needs. The Bow honestly does not help his metagame. It's too slow to be of any use. And it requires him to stay still.

Running speed needs change yes, jumping needs change yes, and he needs better ground moves indeed. Smashes are fine except Fsmash. Make that basically Toon Link's, and it's all fine and dandy.

If you mean Forward Smash, sure. If you mean Final Smash, they're pretty much the same. Link's is just better. His ground moves aren't terrible, just slow and not as powerful as they could be.

 

[---]

Medusa? Personally I've been thinking of a moveset for her and Palutena.

Since I don't know too much about what Medusa can do outside of Snakes and turning people into stone I can't say much about how she would work. So far I'm thinking mindgames or rushdown.

Palutena, however is much easier to work with. I can't say much as I'd rather my moveset to to myself, but with her uniquely shaped staff, her shield, and Centurions, and access to all of Pit's leftover weapons and items, I personally see her as a spacing character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Show me one game where he attacks similar to the Omnislash. He never has. He's never used the Triforce like that before. It was made up, and given a name as an excuse to relate it to the Zelda seris.

It's less far fetched than say, Falcon Punch, or Fox's up B, or just about anything else made up. It at least involves the Tri Force. And unlike Zelda and Ganon's counterparts, Link's Tri Force of Courage doesn't have any special abilities magical wise.

Zelda I says Hi. Try to beat those Darknuts without Bombs. And of course they don't. Almost nothing works the exact same way in the original game. Unless it's a fighting game character. That's how you translate moves from an Action game to a Fighting game. And that's completely subjective. I love using his most iconic abilities and weapons to their fullest potential. The only moves I don't like is his Bow, and it could've been something like his Hammer. Why that? It's still iconic, but it gives him a powerful move right off the bat. Something he needs. The Bow honestly does not help his metagame. It's too slow to be of any use. And it requires him to stay still.

You mean Zelda 1? Haven't ever completed it, but that case may be a special occation.

And no the bow must deffinatly stay. Have you not read my suggestion about it before? I want the Bow to be like in the 3D games. Able to aim with it, and walk around with it. Unlike the bombs, the bow is actually USED for combat. Every time, in every Zelda. That hammer isn't needed. And besides, many characters in Smash originally use hammers (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Pit) and those hammers are way more iconic to them. If Link's Bow works like it should, you won't need no Bombs and Boomerang.

Spin Attack, as it was in Melee was a good strong attack, that even came out reasonably fast. So they should just (if anything) change it back to that, but keep the charge function (make it optionally though). Maybe add a little more range once fully charged even?

If you mean Forward Smash, sure. If you mean Final Smash, they're pretty much the same. Link's is just better. His ground moves aren't terrible, just slow and not as powerful as they could be.

Forward Smash yes. And unless you have any better ideas, I'm fine with Triforce Slash as Final Smash.

I think Link's AAA move should be a lot better. Make it stronger, and able to link up hits better. Ftilt needs to be a little faster, maybe stronger to. Utilt, more power, less lag, Dtilt should be able to spike better, but it's such a bad move anyway. >_>

 

[---]

Screw it, here's what I've thought up for Palutena so far:

Netural: Light Ball - Launchs the ball of light at the end of her staff, works like Din's Fire but it doesn't have a disjointed hitbox, does no knockback but it puts the oppponent in a dazed state. Doesn't do anything in the air.

Forward: Centurion - Similar to Pit's FS, but it only summons 1 Centurion at a time. Is a perfect follow up to Light Ball.

Up: Miracle of Flight - Same as R.O.B.'s Up Special, but you have a longer rest time, but more control over it.

Down: Protective Crystal - Summons the Crystal item from the first 2 KI games, 2 orbs float around her protecting her from projectiles if they connect, but it racks up damage on opponents with no knockback and flinch if it connects with them, stops working after she takes 30-60% (I haven't decided a % yet), think Vergil's (UMvC3) sword hyper.

Final Smash: Burst of Light - Similar to Peach's FS, the screen flashes and it puts ground opponents in a dazed state and airborn opponents in a helpless state.

For standards and Smashes I'm looking at Soul Calibur characters Cassandra and Sophitia for moves she can do with her shield in addition to her staff.


Sorry if it's not any good yet, I'm still waiting for more Uprising info.

 

[Ussi]

Who is Dante? Sorry am probably too much of a Nintendo ***.

Dante is a fighter in MvC3 representing the devil may cry series. He has the most moves in the game (like 40+) which some chars have like their basic moves and 3 specials (Sentinel lol)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Barrier, shield, invincible and counter moves? Okay. You got Pit's shield (which probably needs some overhaul), some moves invincible/unflinchable frames with some of the heavier and stronger characters, and counter moves in Game and Watch (it needs to be redone IMO), Lucario, and the Fire Emblem characters.

Barrier-based characters=??? NO! I don't want smash to be slow and campy. I prefer smash when defense is spacing and perfectly timed shielding and dodging, not random

Making a barrier-based character or defensive based fighting game is just too hard to do without the game being somewhat stale.

Spoiler

*coughBrawlespeciallyagainstPitmainswhorunawaywiththeirfairywingscough*

In a perfect world? Sure. That would make the game better. But in a world full of spamming, stalling, and camping morons who refuse to play offense without you approaching them? HELL NO!!!

It's not that your idea is bad Shortie-I rather like it. But trust me, if a character had more than the automatic defensive stuff (infinite air dodges, side step dodging, spacing, shields) and you gave them a counter attack, some better shields, and shields or barriers that force your opponent to do things? The chance of it being broken is just too big IMO to be worth the risk.

Imagine Meta Knight in Brawl with two or three counter/barrier moves like the ones you mentioned. That would make you want to tear your face off.

IMO a better and less likely to be broken approach would be if there was perfect shielding again like in Melee. Like when someone fired a projectile, you shield it at the right time, and the projectile fires back at their direction.

Maybe also make it to where if you perfect shield an attack, it stuns your opponent for about 5 frames (1/10 a second, of coursed added to the previous moves' after lag). That would allow who is the attacker and who is the defender to change-without the previous attacker having enough stun time to allow a big hit, if any hit (unless they went for the kill with like a Falcon Punch).

Then again, even this idea could be broken. Defensive options can really make or break a game, or make it stale and slow too often. Pretty much every fighting game is primarily based on offense. If defense overshadows offense moreso than Brawl, then most of us aren't going to like the next smash bros. game too much. IMO fighting games should allow not just great offense to beat good defense, but good offense to beat good defense, while on the flip side great defense beats good offense, which sets the other side up to dominate on offense. If that's what you're trying to get at Shortie-a defensive playing style that makes a character more offensive-if it was executed well-could be very interesting.

Barriers don't have to be all powerful? Say that a strong special attack could break them? Or that the character using barriers isn't able to move as freely?

Speaking of barriers, Nayru's Love was a barrier spell in Ocarina of Time. Zelda could very well have a barrier move to I feel. Her moves need some change anyway. Might give this some more thought later.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's less far fetched than say, Falcon Punch, or Fox's up B, or just about anything else made up. It at least involves the Tri Force. And unlike Zelda and Ganon's counterparts, Link's Tri Force of Courage doesn't have any special abilities magical wise.

Show me games where Falcon and Fox actually fought with those moves. They had very little choices. Unlike Link who has a ton of games. Poor analogy at best.

You mean Zelda 1? Haven't ever completed it, but that case may be a special occation.

You don't need to complete it. The bombs were used heavily in the game. It takes care of Darknuts, Wizrobes, most regular enemies, and opens secret passages and hidden caves. Funny how in the SSE you need a Bomb(or something similar) to find a hidden yellow box.

And no the bow must deffinatly stay. Have you not read my suggestion about it before? I want the Bow to be like in the 3D games. Able to aim with it, and walk around with it. Unlike the bombs, the bow is actually USED for combat. Every time, in every Zelda. That hammer isn't needed. And besides, many characters in Smash originally use hammers (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Pit) and those hammers are way more iconic to them. If Link's Bow works like it should, you won't need no Bombs and Boomerang.

There's the problem. You can't say the Bow is iconic, and the other ones aren't at all. Either they all are, or some are. They're all iconic. I'm talking about in gameplay, where the Bow is indeed his worst special. The Boomerang does it all better, really. The Hammer would still be iconic, and would still give him a strong move. But I can deal with his four special unchanged. Both are our opinions. Hell, the Spin Attack is the only one I could see being changed out, as it's not one of his original moves. But nor is the Hammer, is it?

Spin Attack, as it was in Melee was a good strong attack, that even came out reasonably fast. So they should just (if anything) change it back to that, but keep the charge function (make it optionally though). Maybe add a little more range once fully charged even?

Perhaps. I don't think the charge function can work fast enough. It's either got to be an instant power move(which he lacks) or a charge move. They're pretty much impossible to combine without a full change, which would make it pretty much useless in any real play.

Forward Smash yes. And unless you have any better ideas, I'm fine with Triforce Slash as Final Smash.

He's got his various musical instruments, which could put everybody to sleep, regardless of where they are. Easy kill. He also has 3 Medallions. Bombos, for example. Could deal a buttload of damage to everyone without knockback. Both are related to his games officially. And not made up on the spot.

I think Link's AAA move should be a lot better. Make it stronger, and able to link up hits better. Ftilt needs to be a little faster, maybe stronger to. Utilt, more power, less lag, Dtilt should be able to spike better, but it's such a bad move anyway. >_>

AAA moves just needs to be easier to do the multistab. Dtilt should easily be an instant spike, anyway. Doesn't need anything beyond that. Utilt does indeed need a bit more power. However, the most powerful the move, the more lag it needs to have. That's kind of the balance. Can't say much about the ftilt.

 

[Ussi]

Ftilt could be made transcendent meaning it can't be clashed with. Like Zelda's ftilt xD

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Triforce is not made up, and is more iconic than those options you suggested. That's the difference. As I said, it is by far not as far fetched as Falcon Punch, or Fox setting himself on fire.

And yes, bombs and bows are about as iconic in Zelda, but honestly, which do you think is more used in fighting enemies in Zelda?

Spin Attack must stay. At the very least keep it as a Down Smash or something. C'mon man you really want Spin Attack replaced before bombs? >_> This is Link, not Bomberman. And the way he's played as in Smash often makes me feel otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we're back to square one one the Mario reps though.

This, with the Smash community constantly arguing over the potential fifth Mario rep (and in the slight chance we get a sixth one as well). There is no real way to tell who will get in.

As for defensive characters, I can really think of a generic enemy from Donkey Kong Country (he was wearing TNT on him and he exploded if you touched him. I believe he was also red).

I also recognized that I like characters that are fast. No wonder why Sonic is my main and why I may secondary Saki if he gets in.

 

[augustoflores]

Revamped Mewtwo specials:

B: Shadow Ball; as seen in the first movie... depicted the way it was in the first movie (not melee)

Side B: Reflect; basically, its a fast field in front of mewtwo's hand that reflects projectiles into the opposite direction.

Down B: Barrier Shockwave; best used while in the air since you can't block in the air. This move is a combination move i made up involving Barrier and Shockwave. Mewtwo creates a Barrier defending his body from oncoming physical attacks. At the release of the B button, Mewtwo uses Shockwave to blast through the barrier.

Up B: Teleport... self explanatory.

i really didn't like Confusion and Hypnosis.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Triforce is not made up, and is more iconic than those options you suggested. That's the difference. As I said, it is by far not as far fetched as Falcon Punch, or Fox setting himself on fire.

And yes, bombs and bows are about as iconic in Zelda, but honestly, which do you think is more used in fighting enemies in Zelda?

Spin Attack must stay. At the very least keep it as a Down Smash or something. C'mon man you really want Spin Attack replaced before bombs? >_> This is Link, not Bomberman. And the way he's played as in Smash often makes me feel otherwise.

Spin Attack didn't exist till later on. Hell, you couldn't get it as early as the bombs or the arrows many times. It's also not needed in every single game. Not even close to important. Iconic, maybe, but not needed in most cases.

Triforce SLASH is made up. Name one game outside of Brawl where Link performs anything close. A Zelda game, that is. Combos in Soul Calibur II doesn't count here.

Trying killing the original Dodongo without the Bomb.(hell, try killing any version) Now trying killing Gohma without some kind of projectile. It's required in most of the games. That's how you originally defeated her. Note that the Bow didn't arrive till Melee. It was supposed to be in there instead of the Boomerang.

Let's note games that don't use the Boomerang. There's... Zelda II(but that doesn't use any of his specials either), and I do believe that's completely it. Iconic. Bombs are in the same amount of games, as is the Bow or a similar projectile(Slingshot, Seed Shooter). It's a very iconic item. Now, Toon/Young Link does need to get the Slingshot. But for regular Link, you can't say the Bombs are more iconic than the Spin Attack in general. Because the Spin Attack is already in less games. He wasn't generally known for the Spin Attack, but his item list. I'm not saying there's a good replacement for the Spin Attack, I'm saying it's the least used of 4 in the games.

Removing any of his original items makes absolutely no sense. Upgrading them are fine. Note how the Hookshot was replaced with the Clawshot? That's because it wasn't nearly as iconic. Anyway, his Bombs and Boomerang are the most used and iconic Zelda items in the overall series. They're in every game bar one so far.

Likewise, the Spin Attack is the least used move in the regular Zelda games. Why? It doesn't defeat most specific enemies. It's not a key item that's required to progress in the game. In fact, I think there was like only one time you needed it in Link's Awakening, to defeat Shadow Ganon. Or the Pegasus Boots. Well, so much for it being required.

 

[Conviction]

Diddy Kong's argument "I don't like how link uses bombs a lot in his most dominant playstyle."

I don't like how Falco chaingrabs a lot in his most dominant playstyle.

Do what I did and get over it.

 

[Big-Cat]

On Barrier Characters
Phoenix Wright is actually this to an extent. He'll gather evidence and can use Maya as a barrier. The question is who would rock this kind of playstyle the best.

@John
Defensive characters rule just because of Brawl's shoddy design. Balance out the defensive and offensive game and a barrier character shouldn't break the game.

On Link
Bow can stay, just make it where the arrows come out without that damn startup. If Taskmaster and Hawkeye can do that with no problems, so can Link. Also include the ability to adjust his aim upward or downward would be really good.

Up B should be like this. It's an instant power move, but charging it gives you that extra ring of magic from OOT that extends out. That, and just improve his vertical recovery.

Aside from some of the changes mentioned for normals, I really think EVERYONE would benefit from chains ala other fighters (this would mean spreading out the normals to different buttons).

 

[augustoflores]

about the Spin attack... what would you prefer Link's special recovery be? the claw shot acting like Spencer (MvC3)? NO! i prefer Up B to remain the spin attack.

 

[---]

Hmm so I guess no one saw my spacing Palutena moveset? Oh well.

On Link, I think he's fine the way he was in Melee. Just buff his arrows and he's set IMO.

 

[Big-Cat]

Link me the moveset. I'll look at it.

 

[Shorts]

On Barrier Characters
Phoenix Wright is actually this to an extent. He'll gather evidence and can use Maya as a barrier. The question is who would rock this kind of playstyle the best.

FOR ME, Oasis hit it right on the head. I was imagining Plautena making walls of light (Maybe having a two max?), and Gardevoir-esque reflectors (should they follow her or stay in place?). She could steal Isaac's idea of a moving wall thing as well, which could be cool. I would like to give her teleport so she can go between barriers quickly, unlike her opponent. Meh. Just a thought.

Do what I did and get over it.

Exactly. No point in crying about loving to play as Zelda, even though she isn't good.

 

[---]

Link me the moveset. I'll look at it.

I posted it one page back.

Anyway it's not done yet, it's just some ideas for moves that could make her into a spacing character.

I just didn't add in attributes and damage yet. But you can expect her to be slow, and floaty like Mewtwo or Zelda.

 

[yani_]

@--- I saw your moveset, seems pretty good imo.

@Kuma I agree with everything you said about link, diggin the OoT magic charge

 

[JavaCroc]

So it's mainly moveset discussion right now? Meh, I've never immersed myself in that area of Smash Bros. gameplay.


I want to stay on-topic, so here's a little question. Suppose Nintendo was including remixed music in SSB4, but only remixes made by the non-professional fans who provide many of the remixes of sites like YouTube and OverClocked Remix. What are your choices for fan-produced remixes for SSB4?

Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins - Star Maze (Smouvmaster)

Wario Land 2 - Syrup's Secret Stash (Maxo)

Sonic the Hedgehog - Chemixtrixx (Prototype Raptor) (Two words: club music)

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island - Crystalline Caverns (McVaffe)

Metroid: Other M - Past is Prologue (sasukeshika) (Huge thanks to KumaOso for linking me to it; it's awesome)

Pokemon Black/White - Legendary Battle (REGIROCK) (Big thanks to SSBFan for linking to this)

Metroid Prime 3 - Rundas Vs. Gandrayda (Hauntershadow) (Actually a fusion of two pieces, not a true remix)

Metroid Prime 3 / Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story Dark Shapeshifter (Hauntershadow, strongbadman7) (Another fusion song, just listen to the choir and synth combined at 1:26 to 1:39)


BTW, anyone like my temporary new avatar?

 

[yani_]

So it's mainly moveset discussion right now? Meh, I've never immersed myself in that area of Smash Bros. gameplay.


I want to stay on-topic, so here's a little question. Suppose Nintendo was including remixed music in SSB4, but only remixes made by the non-professional fans who provide many of the remixes of sites like YouTube and OverClocked Remix. What are your choices for fan-produced remixes for SSB4?

Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins - Star Maze (Smouvmaster)

Wario Land 2 - Syrup's Secret Stash (Maxo)

Sonic the Hedgehog - Chemixtrixx (Prototype Raptor) (Two words: club music)

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island - Crystalline Caverns (McVaffe)

Metroid: Other M - Past is Prologue (sasukeshika) (Huge thanks to KumaOso for linking me to it; it's awesome)

Pokemon Black/White - Legendary Battle (REGIROCK) (Big thanks to SSBFan for linking to this)


BTW, anyone like my temporary new avatar?

Any song in this made in this video. I'm sure most of you have seen it. It's the Super Mario 30th Anniversary Melody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-DaJGGDoNI

 

[Johnknight1]

You don't need to complete it. The bombs were used heavily in the game. It takes care of Darknuts, Wizrobes, most regular enemies, and opens secret passages and hidden caves. Funny how in the SSE you need a Bomb(or something similar) to find a hidden yellow box.

I only used bombs for secret caves and on bosses where that was the only way to win. Other than that, I fought with my sword, boomerang, magic staff, and bow and arrow.

By the way I have beaten the original Legend of Zelda about 3 dozen times.

Again, the sling shot, the hammer, and all the musical instruments are iconic just like the bombs. What's the harm in replacing the bombs with one of those with either Link or Toon Link=???

Mario had his Mario Tornado changed for his FLUDD, and he had his down air and his down air removed, so really anything can happen.

Barriers don't have to be all powerful? Say that a strong special attack could break them? Or that the character using barriers isn't able to move as freely?

Speaking of barriers, Nayru's Love was a barrier spell in Ocarina of Time. Zelda could very well have a barrier move to I feel. Her moves need some change anyway. Might give this some more thought later.

They could be all powerful. Meta Knight's down B is a sort of defensive move, and it had a terribly overpowered glitch.

As for Nayru's Love, agreed. That could be a great barrier move and defensive move. I think Zelda could really use a defensive move or two to make her style more... unique. Plus if you think about it, we really don't have any true magic-using character aside from Zelda (although she sucks). We are all still waiting for her to rock our socks!

This, with the Smash community constantly arguing over the potential fifth Mario rep (and in the slight chance we get a sixth one as well). There is no real way to tell who will get in.

I'm still thinking Paper Mario is the clear run away favorite. Bowser Jr., Toad, and Geno are behind him.

Waluigi is a dead piece of road kill on some Mario Kart track somewhere...

@ Java
Gotta love "ROOOCCKKKOOOOS MOOODDDARRRNNN LYYYYFFFEEEE!!!"

 

[JavaCroc]

Any song in this made in this video. I'm sure most of you have seen it. It's the Super Mario 30th Anniversary Melody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-DaJGGDoNI

Wow, that's 18 minutes full of awesomeness and I'm only halfway through.

@ Java
Gotta love "ROOOCCKKKOOOOS MOOODDDARRRNNN LYYYYFFFEEEE!!!"

That show WAS A HOOT.

Also, this song would never happen, but MARIO MIXED WITH MATRIX! Death Road

 

[Johnknight1]

That show WAS A HOOT.

Yeah I loved that show as a kid. I saw a recent episode and it was just as good-if not better.

Gotta love that with shows you grew up on!

On Barrier Characters
Phoenix Wright is actually this to an extent. He'll gather evidence and can use Maya as a barrier. The question is who would rock this kind of playstyle the best.

@John
Defensive characters rule just because of Brawl's shoddy design. Balance out the defensive and offensive game and a barrier character shouldn't break the game.

That's an interesting point...

If anyone is defensive, it should be Zelda, or someone with no ranged attacks or ability to stall/camp/run away like a little wimp. Zelda has nothing going for her in smash, so changing her to that kind of style would be unique. She has few things going for her in either Melee or Brawl (other than changing into Sheik and that ability helping both of their match ups), so a more defensive play style would at least be something new.

And if it fails, it fails just like how it failed in previous smash games.

Yes, Brawl's awful (just awful!) offense-defense balance is what I'm worried about repeating all over again. The next smash bros game doesn't need to be as offensive as Melee or Smash 64, but dang it, good offense needs to beat good defense, stalling needs to make you lose, and campers should be easily punishable.

And while it was a good concept but poor in practice, the "stale moves" feature needs to be cut back in terms of knock back and damage to no more than 25%. If it stays, I wouldn't mind if the knock back and damage both went down if you actually hurt your foe. The current system promotes camping. Because if you camp/spam/stall/run away, your foe will most likely use the same few moves to stop making you camp/spam/stall/run away, which makes the game inherently more defensive.

Again, if that only applies to when you land a hit and does damage, I'm okay with it. If it applies when you miss or hit a shield, no change should be made... except maybe for long range moves. But that's a maybeh..... >.>

 

[---]

Rocko's Modern Life = Awesomesauce

Hmm, it also seems I'll have to work on my spacing Palutena moveset a bit more for everyone.

 

[Shorts]

I know this is sort of random, but...what about a Platinum Pokemon level? I love me some Giratina, and the distortion world is a really cool concept... anyone mind if we got that?

I figure:
Pikachu - Pokemon Coliseum
Charizard - Pokemon Coliseum
Jigglypuff - Pokemon Coliseum
Lucario - Distortion World
Mewtwo - Cerulean City / Cave
Meowth - Cerulean City / Cave
Victini - Victini's "Playhouse"
Zoroark/N - N's Castle
Genesect - Plasma Base
Suicune - Burned Tower
Pichu - Celebi Shrine (Where you meet Notch-Ear)
Doexys - Meteor Falls

 

[---]

Distortion World?

I've been suggesting that from the very beginning! Yes, it would be awesome as a level.

It could be the Gravity Man of Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I know this is sort of random, but...what about a Platinum Pokemon level? I love me some Giratina, and the distortion world is a really cool concept... anyone mind if we got that?

I figure:
Pikachu - Pokemon Coliseum
Charizard - Pokemon Coliseum
Jigglypuff - Pokemon Coliseum
Lucario - Distortion World
Mewtwo - Cerulean City / Cave
Meowth - Cerulean City / Cave
Victini - Victini's "Playhouse"
Zoroark/N - N's Castle
Genesect - Plasma Base
Suicune - Burned Tower
Pichu - Celebi Shrine (Where you meet Notch-Ear)
Doexys - Meteor Falls

I would be a fan of that concept. If we are losing Spiral Pillars, this would be a nice replacement.

@Johnknight1: From what I've seen, Waluigi seems to be more popular with requests then Geno *sigh*.

But in my preference, Geno is in the middle of the road with Toad and Paper Mario ahead of him and Bowser Jr. and Waluigi below him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I only used bombs for secret caves and on bosses where that was the only way to win. Other than that, I fought with my sword, boomerang, magic staff, and bow and arrow.

By the way I have beaten the original Legend of Zelda about 3 dozen times.

Again, the sling shot, the hammer, and all the musical instruments are iconic just like the bombs. What's the harm in replacing the bombs with one of those with either Link or Toon Link=???

Mario had his Mario Tornado changed for his FLUDD, and he had his down air and his down air removed, so really anything can happen.

The Mario Tornado is still there, btw. His Down Air wasn't iconic by any means.

The Slingshot is only a few games, and most of the time, only Young Link uses them. He should get it, as it's more or less his item.

Also, that's the point I'm making with the Bombs. You can't beat most of the games without 'em. Same with the Bow and Boomerang. The Spin Attack? Not actually required in any game. Thus, the other 3 have no reason to leave compared to the Spin Attack. All should stay regardless, but you can't say the Bombs are better to replace than the Bow either. Especially since the Bow currently sucks and would be better overall. The best we'll get is upgrades regardless.

Toon/Young Link has tons of choices. Bombchu, Slingshot, Deku Leaf, and he could still keep his version of Boomerang without trouble. And that's just the B moves. But those are all used by him, and iconic with Young/Toon Link, not regular Link.

 

[Johnknight1]

I know this is sort of random, but...what about a Platinum Pokemon level? I love me some Giratina, and the distortion world is a really cool concept... anyone mind if we got that?

I figure:
Pikachu - Pokemon Coliseum
Charizard - Pokemon Coliseum
Jigglypuff - Pokemon Coliseum
Lucario - Distortion World
Mewtwo - Cerulean City / Cave
Meowth - Cerulean City / Cave
Victini - Victini's "Playhouse"
Zoroark/N - N's Castle
Genesect - Plasma Base
Suicune - Burned Tower
Pichu - Celebi Shrine (Where you meet Notch-Ear)
Doexys - Meteor Falls

LOL you forgot Jiggglypuff. I think a stage like Mt. Silver would be suitable.

Hopefully none of those stupid mini-game features in Pokémon ever get a stage. That would be AWFUL!!!

Meowth should get Team Rocket's HQ at Celadon City, Viridian City, or some other HQ. Maybe the Goldenrod Tower. I think the Goldenrod Tower would be the best possible stage IMO.

I would be a fan of that concept. If we are losing Spiral Pillars, this would be a nice replacement.

@Johnknight1: From what I've seen, Waluigi seems to be more popular with requests then Geno *sigh*.

Spear Pillar sucked! The game played with those dumb background Pokémon, and the bland layout and overpowered and annoying Pokémon in the background made it boring. I haven't played it in years. (I just played every Melee stage 2 weeks ago, lol!)

As for Waluigi, he's still a no shot. Once the Geno fans like myself come out from the woods, his popularity will increase. He had a huge cult here on smashboards (probably the biggest of all characters not in smash, aside from maybe Mega Man and Ridley). It probably won't be as big as before, but trust me: it will be big.

The Waluigi movement will die early because he'll get AT'd again anyways... >.> Even if not, we'll own their logic so fast they'll shut up, go back to Game FAQs, and nag about how they got outclassed, outsmarted, and owned.

 

[Shorts]

LOL you forgot Jiggglypuff. I think a stage like Mt. Silver would be suitable.

Hopefully none of those stupid mini-game features in Pokémon ever get a stage. That would be AWFUL!!!

Meowth should get Team Rocket's HQ at Celadon City, Viridian City, or some other HQ. Maybe the Goldenrod Tower. I think the Goldenrod Tower would be the best possible stage IMO.

In-Game, Meowth has no connections to team rocket though. If we had a GRUNT PT, then I would choose one of those levels, but Meowth in Game is found in Cerulean City, I BELIEVE. (Not IN, but near the Daycare below it) So that's why I threw him in with Mewtwo.

I loved Spear Pillar.


And Jiggs is right after Charizard~

As for the Mario Hierchy is like this IMO

Toad
Junior
Paper Mario (Hopeless IMO)
Geno
Waluigi
The rest of them

 

[---]

Well I loved Spear Pillar. I don't care what people say, it was a great stage (just not for competitive play).

It also seems I found my next stage concept. It's been in my head since Platinum came out and I've put it off for too long.

Also did anyone understand what I ment by Gravity Man?

EDIT: Guess Not.