New Sheik AT *Needle Boosting*

[saviorslegacy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiAg0sozXE8
*note* **** YOUTUBE AND THEIR **** AUDIO!!!!!

It is really quite simple.
Just pivot, jump and do a reverse Needle Storm.
If you can do that at like DACUS timing you are set. @-@
It took me forever to get footage for this vid!

 

[2001]

mindgamezzzzzzzzz.

Did you try it with any other special attacks like the chain?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Seems like you just B-reserved when you jumped.

 

[saviorslegacy]

mindgamezzzzzzzzz.

Did you try it with any other special attacks like the chain?

Spacing options son.

The chain stops all momentum... or I just fail at life.

Seems like you just B-reserved when you jumped.

I did, but I pivoted first.
If you don't input it fast enough you just jump, go straight up and fall straight down. >,<
Failing this= punishment

 

[-Mars-]

I've always wondered if the chain stopping mometum had any use for momentum cancelling........

 

[<π]

No it doesn't

I know I have posts about this every time someone mentions needle cancling I mention this. it is just a b reverse needle cancel. it can be useful for spacing fair and bairs better. small errors though can lead to big punishment which is why I generally don't do it.

 

[Leafplayer452]

Umm I believe this is just momentum shifting but instead ur just charging your needles.......

 

[stealth3654]

Pretty much what <3 said.

It's pretty cool, but one mistake and you could easily be punished for it (ex: Snake's ftilt -_-). I can see this as a good spacer or an alternative to RARing.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I've always wondered if the chain stopping mometum had any use for momentum cancelling........

Like bucket breaking?
Yeah, I have thought the same thing.

No it doesn't

I know I have posts about this every time someone mentions needle cancling I mention this. it is just a b reverse needle cancel. it can be useful for spacing fair and bairs better. small errors though can lead to big punishment which is why I generally don't do it.

It is basically b-sticking.

Umm I believe this is just momentum shifting but instead ur just charging your needles.......

Wait... doesn't Needle's cancel left and right momentum?

Pretty much what <3 said.

It's pretty cool, but one mistake and you could easily be punished for it (ex: Snake's ftilt -_-). I can see this as a good spacer or an alternative to RARing.

That is why you get to where you can perform it 100% of the time like Fox's could with wave shine.
I can do it about 20%/30% of the time now.
The timing is crazy, but just imagine how well someone who mastered this could space!


Nah nah.. I have already thought of several use's for this!
I recently found that this could be used out of a dash dance. That means quicker follow ups and maybe even make things combo at higher percents. I dunno, I'll just have to test it once I have mastered it.
We also might even be able to Needle approach.
Think about that, the ability to approach from afar. Not sure if it would be legit, but it is worth looking into.

This also provides weird spacing to throw someone off and possibly follow up with the chain.



This is something worth looking into.
Few use b stick (thus like no research), few can use it this way, it is a good way to space, a mind game and might even allow for follow ups. IMO, worth looking into.

 

[<π]

you don't have to b stick. just hit B and immediately tap the opposite direction. a B-reverse. Needles don't cancel momentum, but while charging then your left right input no longer affects your momentum which is a reason why I'm big against needle cancels for hahas.

b-reversed needles is neat. a niffty spacing tech out of short hop but ultimately it is just a needle cancel. it actually. you can use it to avoid dangerous situations and try and trick openings but most good players don't react to you going aerial with a very easy to punish option, they'll shield, move away or throw out a spacing move. all of which are hard to punish, espeacially when you concider you just locked yourself into atleast 15 frames of lag.

While I understand the comparison to waveshining with fox. wave shine is way less inputs. B->Y/X->R as upposed to Y/X->B->left/right->Z miss one of these inputs, do them too early or too late and you strait up fail and are easily punished on reaction. miss on with fox you accidentally short hopped and you can dair now.

I'm over exaggerating a bit, lol. But in all honesty after "mastering" this a long long time ago I decided you can apply stronger pressure without it. Although, espeacially on this, I encourage people to get out there and prove me wrong.

one reason I still use this is for landing mind games. snakes pull a b reversed nade to quickly change direction in air and give them a better place to land. I do that with needles now-a-days. you change direction way faster than just holding the opposite direction. it really gives you a chance to avoid people following you in air a huge plus for sheiks slow horizontal aerial movement speed.

 

[DanGR]

I wanna see it done after the sliding thing on Yoshi's Island- the thing done after a dtilt where you slide across the stage. Ankoku made a video of it a while ago... (Or maybe someone tell me how to do it so I can do it myself, lol.) You slide backwards during the "slide thing" so a RAR wouldn't even be necessary.

 

[-Mars-]

<3 tell me more.........are you saying b reversals can be done like how Snake players switch momentum with nades? Can it only be done out of negative hitstun?

 

[saviorslegacy]

you don't have to b stick. just hit B and immediately tap the opposite direction. a B-reverse. Needles don't cancel momentum, but while charging then your left right input no longer affects your momentum which is a reason why I'm big against needle cancels for hahas.

b-reversed needles is neat. a niffty spacing tech out of short hop but ultimately it is just a needle cancel. it actually. you can use it to avoid dangerous situations and try and trick openings but most good players don't react to you going aerial with a very easy to punish option, they'll shield, move away or throw out a spacing move. all of which are hard to punish, espeacially when you concider you just locked yourself into atleast 15 frames of lag.

While I understand the comparison to waveshining with fox. wave shine is way less inputs. B->Y/X->R as upposed to Y/X->B->left/right->Z miss one of these inputs, do them too early or too late and you strait up fail and are easily punished on reaction. miss on with fox you accidentally short hopped and you can dair now.

I'm over exaggerating a bit, lol. But in all honesty after "mastering" this a long long time ago I decided you can apply stronger pressure without it. Although, espeacially on this, I encourage people to get out there and prove me wrong.

one reason I still use this is for landing mind games. snakes pull a b reversed nade to quickly change direction in air and give them a better place to land. I do that with needles now-a-days. you change direction way faster than just holding the opposite direction. it really gives you a chance to avoid people following you in air a huge plus for sheiks slow horizontal aerial movement speed.

Nice bit of info. I haven't seen you talk about it before, why?

We have different inputs. Not sure if it matter but here is what I am doing.
(this is for running to the right and then bouncing to the left)
dash to the right> pivot to the left> jump> hit the analog to the right> Needle Storm> L/R> (and then you can hold left on the analog to cover a larger distance)

I wanna see it done after the sliding thing on Yoshi's Island- the thing done after a dtilt where you slide across the stage. Ankoku made a video of it a while ago... (Or maybe someone tell me how to do it so I can do it myself, lol.) You slide backwards during the "slide thing" so a RAR wouldn't even be necessary.

Uhhhh.. that is completely different.
BTW, it was God-is-my-rock who find it.

That id the duck wave dash. You can transfer momentum and make Sheik slide back when you so while walking.
You can get a HUGE boost by doing this at YI.

<3 tell me more.........are you saying b reversals can be done like how Snake players switch momentum with nades? Can it only be done out of negative hitstun?

That'd be cool.

 

[Leafplayer452]

And it doesnt Savior, needle cancel doesnt stop left or right momentum

 

[choknater]

lmao guys i talked about this since brawl came out

RAR b-reverse needle cancel fair is her STRONGEST approach

 

[saviorslegacy]

And it doesnt Savior, needle cancel doesnt stop left or right momentum

K, lemme rephrase that.
Needle's stop left and right momentum unless you perform a Needle glide.

A needle Cancel usually slows left and right momentum, not add to it.
Go into training mode and compare.

lmao guys i talked about this since brawl came out

RAR b-reverse needle cancel fair is her STRONGEST approach

I guess I tuned you out cuz you're boring then

Spoiler

j/k

What about using Bair? It has more reach.


:EDIT: Okay, I saw a 5 star rating a while ago. Who the heck gave it a 1 star rating? -_-

 

[Miles.]

Get off Squirtle's nuts, you are just jumping out of a pivot try this with Squirtle.

 

[choknater]

lol miles is right

this move is just excessively flashy

i like how u can do it though

cuz flashy is fun

 

[saviorslegacy]

Get off Squirtle's nuts, you are just jumping out of a pivot try this with Squirtle.

If you are just jumping of a pivot then why doesn't that work? lol
You need to pivot and B reverse.

 

[<π]

B reversals switch your horizontal momentum. I don't believe this works during hit stun though.

How to do it? pretty much the same thing as reversing Gdorf and Cfalc's neutral Bs. You just have a much stricter window. Hit B and then immediately the direction opposite of which you are facing.

Needles don't stop horizontal momentum at all, they stop you from changing it. It acts as though you are no longer inputing for directions. (why you should immediately cancel you needles after a needle glide).

this junk is tight:
dash left -> short hop -> tap right -> hit B -> hit left -> hit Z-> fair. So~ safe

I feel like it hits lower characters better than:
dash left -> SH -> hit B -> hit right-> hit Z -> bair, because you are moving away you are pretty safe and fair has less land lag I believe so on whiff you aren't too too bad off.

or you can just walk forward and jab or ftilt or just space fair/bair normally since 90 percent of the cast can't do anything to that spare Invul stuff.

 

[saviorslegacy]

lol miles is right

this move is just excessively flashy

i like how u can do it though

cuz flashy is fun

It is not only flashy, but REALLY useful.

I was able to use it some against a CPU Marth (CPU's are to good for learning tech skill).
At one point I used it and bounced out before his FSmash hit me.
The only other way I couldv'r avoided that would be to Shield, roll, step dodge or maybe run back really quick.
Most of those give poor follow up options though. I was hoever, able to follow up with Dash Attack safely.

I did get punished a little bit for it, but it was mostly my fault.
This tech is gonna have to be a muscle memory one. lol

B reversals switch your horizontal momentum. I don't believe this works during hit stun though.

How to do it? pretty much the same thing as reversing Gdorf and Cfalc's neutral Bs. You just have a much stricter window. Hit B and then immediately the direction opposite of which you are facing.

Needles don't stop horizontal momentum at all, they stop you from changing it. It acts as though you are no longer inputing for directions. (why you should immediately cancel you needles after a needle glide).

this junk is tight:
dash left -> short hop -> tap right -> hit B -> hit left -> hit Z-> fair. So~ safe

I feel like it hits lower characters better than:
dash left -> SH -> hit B -> hit right-> hit Z -> bair, because you are moving away you are pretty safe and fair has less land lag I believe so on whiff you aren't too too bad off.

or you can just walk forward and jab or ftilt or just space fair/bair normally since 90 percent of the cast can't do anything to that spare Invul stuff.

Your are a southern know it all <3. -_-

 

[<π]

>: ( I'm not southern!!!

 

[saviorslegacy]

>: ( I'm not southern!!!

You are in Florida.

 

[professor mgw]

This AT has to many cons going against its pros.

 

[saviorslegacy]

This AT has to many cons going against its pros.

It's only con is that it is difficult to use.

It's only pro is that you can out space people while using it. It may help with comboing as well.


I don't see it getting out weighed.

 

[Palpi]

This is like the 540 falcon punch. RAR, psuedo b-stick, the pivot in the punch

 

[<π]

I'm born and rasied in CT though. I hate just about everything about FL spare the smash scene.

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is like the 540 falcon punch. RAR, psuedo b-stick, the pivot in the punch

lol, I was testing to see if this worked with everyone and it does. Pretty sexy IMO.
BTW... I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about but I think I did perform it.
It was like a self mind game. O-o

I'm born and rasied in CT though. I hate just about everything about FL spare the smash scene.

Wait, what state is CT?

How can you hate Florida? It has hot chicks, sweet beaches, (part of my family), Alligators, Anole's (those sweet action lizards), awesome tree's and cool history (cough*Jacksonville*cough).

 

[SuSa]

Connecticut

 

[-Mars-]

CT= Connecticut

 

[saviorslegacy]

Connecticut

CT= Connecticut

I laugh at how you two answered at almost the exact same time.


Anyyyywayssss.... who all use's this AT?
Also, to what success do you use it?

 

[Crossjeremiah]

ive been doing this **** forever

 

[saviorslegacy]

ive been doing this **** forever

Why am I the only person that didn't know about this?

Seriously, something that beefs up her spacing game and no one talks about it!? -_-

 

[choknater]

cuz its not that profound

like i said, it BARELY affects her spacing game, and its so many commands that most of the time i dont even bother. especially when i can just run that extra inch forward and fair anyway

u should look at the old video of doing it off a platform/ledge for a huge boost, its much better than doing it in a short hop

 

[Snakeee]

I RAR - charge needles so I can b-air instead of f-air so I won't be shield grabbed, but I haven't been doing the boost. It looks like it could be just a little useful spacing wise, but since I never really found the need for B-sticking (for my chars at least) I doubt I'll be implementing this either.

You guys shouldn't bash him if you've been doing this already. He put effort into putting it out there, and at least he's making an attempt to further Sheik's metagame. If we keep discouraging people, we might eventually miss out on something game breaking because the person will be worried that it may have been found already and we'll yell at him

 

[choknater]

haha ok snakeee

 

[saviorslegacy]

cuz its not that profound

like i said, it BARELY affects her spacing game, and its so many commands that most of the time i dont even bother. especially when i can just run that extra inch forward and fair anyway

u should look at the old video of doing it off a platform/ledge for a huge boost, its much better than doing it in a short hop

Saw it, I use it for Needle Approaching on BF. Good shiz.
I think I have a replay where I performed a Needle Glide, threw a full Needle Storm, landed a decayed f-tilt and then followed up with USmash for a KO.
It was verrrrrry epic IMO. My friend just yelled crap and got revenge on the next stock....

I RAR - charge needles so I can b-air instead of f-air so I won't be shield grabbed, but I haven't been doing the boost. It looks like it could be just a little useful spacing wise, but since I never really found the need for B-sticking (for my chars at least) I doubt I'll be implementing this either.

You guys shouldn't bash him if you've been doing this already. He put effort into putting it out there, and at least he's making an attempt to further Sheik's metagame. If we keep discouraging people, we might eventually miss out on something game breaking because the person will be worried that it may have been found already and we'll yell at him

I would also like to point out how awesome Bair is for the moment.Awesome priority, good range and really quick. When reovering we can B reverse cancel our Needle's. This will but our back to the stage. If anyone tries to mess with us we Bair them. Maybe even get a stage spike. Either way we can easily get a tether if they try and mess with us (unless they are of course like my friend who tricks me into tethering right after he does.........). I just thought I would throw that out there.

Meh, they weren't flaming or anything like that. I personally think <3 is a ***** cat unable to flame.
Thanks for sticking up for me though.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea i've been b reversing so I can use bair on my recovery for a while. If you have your back turned to the stage and you still have your double jump.......it's VERY hard to gimp Sheik.

 

[<π]

Aww... I've never been called a ***** cat before...

 

[Judo777]

Holy piss thats smart as hell! B-reversing needles to double jump bair while recovering sounds legit. It will require u to be a little closer to the stage initailly cause of the momentum swap away from the stage but that would mess the piss out of someones gimp attempt plus u can land a back air and possibly kill them. This would be a nasty mixup! Might i suggest if u really wanted to do this and u were a little farther to just do a turnaround B so the momentum swap doesnt push u too far away to recover well.