johnnylaw505
Smash Journeyman
Ugh I really want to play you guys.
and what is this tournament business in AZ?
and what is this tournament business in AZ?
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Yes with whom??
And also to my earlier question: should we, those of us who have not pre-registered, put that we need housing on the pre-registration?
BTW, feel insignificant in the vast intelligence of AlphaZealot. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165653&page=27
With Goop. I'm still working everything out, but I should be able to get housing for about 5 of us, but you should still say we need housing. You never know.With whom, exactly?
We're planning an out of state trip to Arizona's AzOneTwoStep tournament. It's a sticky on the main page of the Southwest board. Check it out.Ugh I really want to play you guys.
and what is this tournament business in AZ?
Don't bring other fighters into the equation when debating about this since its only brawl vs. melee, not melee vs. tekken/guilty gear/MvC2/3rd strike/any other fighting game other than brawl -_____-I was looking for a regional tournament to attend and I stumbled across this.
To answer the question "Who the hell is Alphazealot"- Alpha has been a writer and league operations member for Major League Gaming for two years. He helped run MLG's smash tournaments and wrote most of the smash articles for MLG. Also, Alpha co-ran the largest tournament series in the Mid-Atlantic: BOMB. Also, he is a Moderator on these forums. I know this about him b/c I have known him since he began working for MLG back in April 2005. Alpha is by *far* one of the most experienced, respected, and knowledgeable people on these forums.
My two cents about Brawl vs. Melee- I don't know how this story is going to end. However, I take opinions from people who have a perspective on competitive gaming (meaning smash has been there only competitive gaming experience). What these people have told me is that there are less "barriers of entry" for Brawl as compared to Melee. L-canceling, wave-dashing...are not required to become recognized as "competitive." They tell me that Brawl is much more of a "battle of ideas" game, with the "smarter person" coming out on top. I agree a lot with this viewpoint.
I laugh when smashers say that Melee was "the deepest fighting game ever made?" Not completely true...having attended EVO and having been a long, active member in the Shoryuken and Zatibatsu communities, Melee is not the only "deep fighting game."
Certainly many complaints about Brawl are justified and I agree with some, however, less technical skill does not equal less depth (nor does less technical skill equal more depth). Tekken, while not as fast or as technical Meele, takes just as much "skill" to win at and is just as "deep" as Melee . Depth is a subjective word that, in competitive gaming, takes longer than a year to define it
Finally, there is much more in Brawl than what has been written on these forums. Having been shown what top melee players have discovered in Brawl, I am confident that Brawl will be fine. If you think Melee will be played again, it won't. Money (and people) are getting behind Brawl and large companies and existing tournament series will include Brawl in their game list. Also, I have seen this "save the better game" attempted for CS 1.6 and for Halo 1 with spectacularly dismal results.
Both Melee and Brawl can coexist; but Brawl will be played much more and will be the main attraction. Sorry
Why did you post what I just posted...Whoa whoa whoooaaa. Do not compare Melee, or any good fighter, to Tekken. Tekken is "lol, infinite", and not in the good, MvC2 way. That game blows.
Brawl is "battle of ideas", but generally, the right idea is to play defensively. Simple as that.
Not saying this is you, but, I like what Forward said here (and since everyone worshiped him at the tourney, will be more inclined to believe what he says).Don't bring other fighters into the equation when debating about this since its only brawl vs. melee, not melee vs. tekken/guilty gear/MvC2/3rd strike/any other fighting game other than brawl -_____-
Brawl IS more of a "battle of the minds" as you've put it, and that the smarter player will come out on top, but you also need to understand that the smarter player is the smarter camper.
Ok so Forward, a melee pro, is now considered a brawl pro just like that? I hate brawl cause it's easy to win in it, I've been in competitive melee since 2004. At this point I know everything about every character's moves, actually even earlier, I just hate the game so much since its so easy and predictable that I only play ever when someone asks me to. I can play any character and still win(unless I go against Snake, he's just so ridiculous so that only a few characters can beat him).Not saying this is you, but, I like what Forward said here (and since everyone worshiped him at the tourney, will be more inclined to believe what he says).
Forward
Good job AZ, stick it to 'em.
I once had a conversation with DSF and he brought up that a lot of the players that don't like brawl are the people who came in late to melee and copied. They didn't create their own tactics, they took what was already good and improved on it.
When Melee was first released, it was a much different game than what you see today. It didn't have insane combos, people didn't l cancel, no one dash danced and a few people spammed wavedashes, it would look something like how Brawl looks today. Would the current melee fans still play if it weren't developed?
Our own knowledge of brawl is limited, we just haven't had the time to internalize the game like we have with melee. Good melee players know the properties, offensively and defensively, of almost every attack in the game; how to set it up/approach with it, where the move sends them, how they should DI it, what can counter a follow up to that move, and how to bait it out. In melee I know 90% of all the character's moves, there will always be a few low tiers I don't know and the top IC and Jigg metagame that only 5 people will ever know. In brawl I understand 5% of all the character's moves.
In closing all I can say is it's a matter of preference. If you enjoy exploring new territory you'll enjoy brawl regardless of the current play style. If you can't give up the technical skill (which I admit was fun, but not for everybody) then you will have a hard time enjoying brawl.
And what Alpha posted
Eventually Brawl will have procedural knowledge, but it takes a long time to develop this. This lack of procedural knowledge with a new game, I think, is what bugs some people, they don't like that they have to learn stuff, that they have to think for themselves. Its not just me who reliazes this, look at Forwards post, he, and DSF, are aware of the same phenomenon in regards to these players.
Thank you for clearing that up. Spiritdragon was talking about him as though he was some idiot, meandering about the boards and spewing his ignorance. Far from the truth.To answer the question "Who the hell is Alphazealot"- Alpha has been a writer and league operations member for Major League Gaming for two years. He helped run MLG's smash tournaments and wrote most of the smash articles for MLG. Also, Alpha co-ran the largest tournament series in the Mid-Atlantic: BOMB. Also, he is a Moderator on these forums. I know this about him b/c I have known him since he began working for MLG back in April 2005. Alpha is by *far* one of the most experienced, respected, and knowledgeable people on these forums.
No one is saying Brawl vs. X fighter. They're using comparisons. That's how debates work.Don't bring other fighters into the equation when debating about this since its only brawl vs. melee, not melee vs. tekken/guilty gear/MvC2/3rd strike/any other fighting game other than brawl -_____-
Brawl IS more of a "battle of the minds" as you've put it, and that the smarter player will come out on top, but you also need to understand that the smarter player is the smarter camper.
Opinion/10Whoa whoa whoooaaa. Do not compare Melee, or any good fighter, to Tekken. Tekken is "lol, infinite", and not in the good, MvC2 way. That game blows.
Brawl is "battle of ideas", but generally, the right idea is to play defensively. Simple as that.
He's not considered a Brawl pro at all. There aren't any true Brawl pro's yet because the game is still brand new. And whether or not he's considered a pro at the game (same as AlphaZ and DSF) doesn't take away the fact that they know how fighting games in the large competitive scene work. They are brilliant minded people with open perspectives. While you won't even give it a chance to be competitive. If you can play any character and win then do it. Go win every tournament and make alot of money. But if you can't do that then maybe its not as easy as you thought.Ok so Forward, a melee pro, is now considered a brawl pro just like that? I hate brawl cause it's easy to win in it, I've been in competitive melee since 2004. At this point I know everything about every character's moves, actually even earlier, I just hate the game so much since its so easy and predictable that I only play ever when someone asks me to. I can play any character and still win(unless I go against Snake, he's just so ridiculous so that only a few characters can beat him).
Direct me to these posts by DSF and Forward instead of referencing them please, cause paraphrasing it isn't doing anything
Win. Couldn't have said it better myself.He's not considered a Brawl pro at all. There aren't any true Brawl pro's yet because the game is still brand new. And whether or not he's considered a pro at the game (same as AlphaZ and DSF) doesn't take away the fact that they know how fighting games in the large competitive scene work. They are brilliant minded people with open perspectives. While you won't even give it a chance to be competitive. If you can play any character and win then do it. Go win every tournament and make alot of money. But if you can't do that then maybe its not as easy as you thought.
P.S. Whats up YoungDanny. Long time no see. Thanks for the great posts and good quotes
Right now I'm sure a ton of people are among the best in the U.S., because it's very easy to reach the peak of the current metagame. With time, the gap between good and great should widen.Willing to bet I AM one of the top in the U.S., I'll easily show you guys at Supercon.
You just agreed with AlphaZealot. Some of those who dislike Brawl are those who have had their technical crutch removed. Not sure if you meant to do that or not, but thank you. Intelligent conversation right there folks.A ton of people aren't the best in the US. That's not how it works. There's plateaus, or tiers, or whatever you want to call them, and I'm willing to bet that 90% of the community isn't even half as good at approaching or predicting as Ferdi and Jeris. That other 10%? The old Melee pros that have been solid since the start (Chu, Chillin, Azen, DSF, Ken). Most players are either so used to trying to overwhelm their opponents with technical prowess and combos, or are just too new to competitive fighters, to be able to think like they do. While I won't agree with some of his statements, Ferdi IS a solid player, and a **** better thinker than almost everyone in the Southwest.
Then again, camping is super effective in Brawl, so who needs mindgames, amirite?
Is this for Supercon???Hey NM, I need to make sure we are still good for at least 6 tvs and 6 wiis.
I can bring one wii.
Wii's
Sinz
Zman
Tv
Zman
Yea do this, don't wait for DFG to do it since we're pretty **** close to the date.Btw Everett, have you been advertising the Supercon in OOS threads? It would be great to see players from places other than Colorado and El Paso show up.
He wrote in his post he "doesn't agree with some of Ferdi's arguments", and thats fine, I just like debates cause it's fun =P lol Ike, how many times did you beat him? Stage? Dude, I am decent at the game, but that's because I know how to abuse camping, and that's lame. I will be playing them at Supercon, aggresiveness from what character though? Cause Spammers don't count. I don't care what AlphaZ does, I'll care when he starts winning tourneys and when he becomes well known from something else other than mod status.You just agreed with AlphaZealot. Some of those who dislike Brawl are those who have had their technical crutch removed. Not sure if you meant to do that or not, but thank you. Intelligent conversation right there folks.
I can beat Sinz's snake with Ike guys. No one character is unbeatable. And I think part of the reason Ferdi doesn't like Brawl is not because it's easy, but because he's so good at it and has had no real competition thus far. And if you think Brawl is all about camping and playing defensively...man, you should see some of the ridiculous aggressiveness from players like Neil and Lewis(don't know you're name's spelling man, sorry.) True, it has more defensive options, but the better player will still be the one to come out on top, regardless of strategy.
Anyways, Brawl is still fun. Mat is a very intelligent guy, he's been working with MLG for several years now, sometimes as a judge, sometimes as a writer, but he's very, very smart when it comes to these things.
Yea Davis, I think I preregistered.
Well...that doesn't really count sinceG-Reg plays super offensive/pressure style. Ask Nite what happened to him.
...Grenades, Utilt, Ftilt, Dash attack Usmash, Bair. Same as against every character -___- remember though, many characters become ridiculous in lag, like ROB, Toon Link, etc. Don't ever ask how to fight an online character cause playing a game while taking lag into the equation is dumb.I HATE YOSHI.
I lost a game online against one. It sucked.
Anyone know how to fight yoshi, i have no idea.
Is this for Supercon???
He wrote in his post he "doesn't agree with some of Ferdi's arguments", and thats fine, I just like debates cause it's fun =P lol Ike, how many times did you beat him? Stage? Dude, I am decent at the game, but that's because I know how to abuse camping, and that's lame. I will be playing them at Supercon, aggresiveness from what character though? Cause Spammers don't count. I don't care what AlphaZ does, I'll care when he starts winning tourneys and when he becomes well known from something else other than mod status.