New Character: Zelda.

[Stiputation]

I'm pretty sure Hipster meant that the best way to look at them objectively is to look at them the way the developers intended for them to be used, as a pair.

I just can't think of them as one because of the huge inequalities they had and my ideal that Zelda shouldn't be a paired character. I'd rather see the idea given up on and attempted with less important characters than see Zelda used once more as a guinea pig for transformations. That's really the only reason to keep Sheik, to continue the transformation gimmick and try to make it more successful. Sheik's an alright character, but anyone who thinks Sheik got in because she was interesting and significant is in denial.

Agreed. Sheik only gained her popularity through Melee. That being only because she was broken. I swear, if Sheik hadn't even been used in Melee no one would even remember that piece of trash.

Like....Sunkern from pokemon. NO ONE remembers Sunkern unless you mention it.

 

[Luthien]

I'm pretty sure Hipster meant that the best way to look at them objectively is to look at them the way the developers intended for them to be used, as a pair.

I just can't think of them as one because of the huge inequalities they had and my ideal that Zelda shouldn't be a paired character. I'd rather see the idea given up on and attempted with less important characters than see Zelda used once more as a guinea pig for transformations. That's really the only reason to keep Sheik, to continue the transformation gimmick and try to make it more successful. Sheik's an alright character, but anyone who thinks Sheik got in because she was interesting and significant is in denial.

A guinea pig? I suppose. Granted, it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't awful either. Would I like to see Zelda as a whole character? Yes. Would I be fine with an improved transformation system. Yes. Believe it or not, I do not have a split personality.

An alright character? Sheik was AWESOME. In OoT, anyway. Sheik is interesting. Sheik is part of what makes Zelda so special; being able to outsmart Ganondorf by turning into a ninja? The contradictions between Zelda and her alterego built to Zelda's character in OoT, because the differences highlighted the similarities. When you hear Sheik speaking poety-like things in the game, you automatically compare that to Zelda.

However, you are right about significance. Sheik was in one game only, and I'm fine if they leave it at that. If Sheik is in Brawl, that's fine, Sakurai's choice. If s/he isn't, I'm not gonna die of grief either. So basically, I think Sheik was an interesting character builder and plot twist, but was not significant overall. I really don't believe that the descision of Sheik being worthy of Brawl should be made by either of us. I trust Sakurai to do the right thing.

 

[who8therice]

Like....Sunkern from pokemon. NO ONE remembers Sunkern unless you mention it.

OMG Sunkern confirmed for Brawl!

Seriously though, I think that Zelda is going to be her own character, and Sheik will not be in at all. And even if Sheik is in, she will be nerfed, and who wants to play as a nerfed Sheik anyway?

It's not because I don't like Sheik that Sheik won't make it in, it's because Sheik wasn't in TP

 

[Iris]

I don't think Sheik was interesting. I mean, she was kind of neat until she unveiled herself, and pretty much all your ideas about Sheik transferred over to Zelda. Once you understand that it's Zelda risking her life, leaving clues, speaking profoundly, and pushing Link to succeed, you don't see Sheik as anything more than a disguise. It wasn't a split personality, it was Zelda hiding. The only thing fundamentally interesting about Sheik is that Zelda hid under that persona.

 

[Luthien]

I don't think Sheik was interesting. I mean, she was kind of neat until she unveiled herself, and pretty much all your ideas about Sheik transferred over to Zelda. Once you understand that it's Zelda risking her life, leaving clues, speaking profoundly, and pushing Link to succeed, you don't see Sheik as anything more than a disguise. It wasn't a split personality, it was Zelda hiding. The only thing fundamentally interesting about Sheik is that Zelda hid under that persona.

Well, yeah. Anything that's come within three feet of Zelda is interesting to me.

...Oh, well. A difference of personal preference, I suppose. I guess I find Sheik interesting because I'm addicted to ninja's and because s/he is the embodiment of Zelda's wisdom to me. The disquise showed just how genius Zelda really is. This is exaggerated by the fact that as soon as the disquise was removed, Ganon knew exactly what to do.

 

[blink777]

Agreed. Sheik only gained her popularity through Melee. That being only because she was broken. I swear, if Sheik hadn't even been used in Melee no one would even remember that piece of trash.

Sorry to pick apart a comment that's already be poked and prodded, but I've gotta disagree. Sheik was easily one of my favourite parts of OoT. Her little cutscene outside the Water Temple - where she prattles on then leaves, only to be seen still watching from a top a tree - is one of my strongest memories of the game. Furthermore, she was my biggest "OMG SCHWEET!" going into Melee until Zelda herself was confirmed.

And as with Luthien, I would be perfectly fine (I'd go as far to say happy) if they just perfected the transformation gameplay rather than separating the two/eliminating Sheik.

 

[Luthien]

And as with Luthien, I would be perfectly fine (I'd go as far to say happy) if they just perfected the transformation gameplay rather than separating the two/eliminating Sheik.

Well, they're never going to PERFECT it, but I'd like to see it improve. And yes, I agree with you about Sheik.

 

[Drake3]

Well, yeah. Anything that's come within three feet of Zelda is interesting to me.

...Oh, well. A difference of personal preference, I suppose. I guess I find Sheik interesting because I'm addicted to ninja's and because s/he is the embodiment of Zelda's wisdom to me. The disquise showed just how genius Zelda really is. This is exaggerated by the fact that as soon as the disquise was removed, Ganon knew exactly what to do.

I'm glad you didn't forget about that latter bit there. Pretty embarassing if I do say so myself. I think TP emphacizes her wisdom even more though through the decisions that she had to make. The weight of what she had to do shows greater wisdom to me than simply disguising herself and hiding. And even if she is the bearer of wisdom, I'd still like to see her show some magic and give Ganondorf a fight. Or is that just me?

 

[Soluble Toast]

I'm glad you didn't forget about that latter bit there. Pretty embarassing if I do say so myself. I think TP emphacizes her wisdom even more though through the decisions that she had to make. The weight of what she had to do shows greater wisdom to me than simply disguising herself and hiding. And even if she is the bearer of wisdom, I'd still like to see her show some magic and give Ganondorf a fight. Or is that just me?

I completely agree.
Tp Zelda seems far wiser to me than OOT Zelda. OOT Zelda seemed wise with all the knowledge of the triforce etc, but TP's Zelda's decisions really showed her wisdom. ( Surrendering to Zant to save her kingdom, knowing the location, and ability of the master sword etc.)
OOT Zelda was just wreck less, and naive in the Temple Of Time. She was a bit over confident. She had the Hero of Time with her, she had given him the weapon to defeat Ganon, she was ready to take Link to Ganon's tower, and BAM. Captured. Pretty embarrassing moment right there xD

I'd also like to see Zelda use some magic ( Outside of Light Arrows) to fight Ganon. I've always wanted Link to gather items in a game that somehow relate to Zelda, and when all gathered transfer their powers to her giving her magic of some sort to actually help Link during a fight.

 

[HipsterKid]

I'm pretty sure Hipster meant that the best way to look at them objectively is to look at them the way the developers intended for them to be used, as a pair.

I think s/he meant that we divide the character Zelda into two separate beings, Zelda and Sheik, but that we should try to see them as a whole instead of picking a side and trying to rip the other apart.

Hipsterkid was right: if we simply walked in each others shoes for a moment, there would be a lot less pointless argueing going on.

Actually all three interpretations were right on the dot. Anyway you see it, they all relate to each other anyway. If you would just look at it from that perspective, you'd see that, if fixed, the wouldn't make a bad pair at all.

And, it is he. :]

 

[Drake3]

I completely agree.
Tp Zelda seems far wiser to me than OOT Zelda. OOT Zelda seemed wise with all the knowledge of the triforce etc, but TP's Zelda's decisions really showed her wisdom. ( Surrendering to Zant to save her kingdom, knowing the location, and ability of the master sword etc.)
OOT Zelda was just wreck less, and naive in the Temple Of Time. She was a bit over confident. She had the Hero of Time with her, she had given him the weapon to defeat Ganon, she was ready to take Link to Ganon's tower, and BAM. Captured. Pretty embarrassing moment right there xD

I'd also like to see Zelda use some magic ( Outside of Light Arrows) to fight Ganon. I've always wanted Link to gather items in a game that somehow relate to Zelda, and when all gathered transfer their powers to her giving her magic of some sort to actually help Link during a fight.

Spoiler

Also sacrificing herself to save Midna.

I think they did an OK job with TP, because they did somehow include Zelda in the fight, for all the use that she was. But I'd like to see the three Trifoce holders involved in some sort of close-combat fight. You can still play as Link and fight Ganondorf as always, but CPU Zelda will be at your side casting protective and offensive spells.

 

[Luthien]

Also sacrificing herself to save Midna.

I think they did an OK job with TP, because they did somehow include Zelda in the fight, for all the use that she was. But I'd like to see the three Trifoce holders involved in some sort of close-combat fight. You can still play as Link and fight Ganondorf as always, but CPU Zelda will be at your side casting protective and offensive spells.

I'm hoping for another event match like that in Brawl. Or maybe even a SSE boss level.

They'd just have to make the CPU Zelda WAY better. Seriously, have you ever watched a CPU Zelda play a CPU DK? (Downtilt,downtilt, downtilt, sent flying, lands, downtilt, downtilt, punched in face, downtilt, downtilt, missed downsmash, smashed offscreen, revived, downtilt,downtilt...). CPU Zelda sucks.

I get what you mean, though. A Zelda game Triforce-weilder battle would be far more epic. (I'd love to watch a cutscene where Ganon sends Link flailing madly through the air, Zelda runs up from behind, lays her palm on his back and BOOM. Too much too hope for, though...)

 

[-spAzn-]

Also sacrificing herself to save Midna.

I think they did an OK job with TP, because they did somehow include Zelda in the fight, for all the use that she was. But I'd like to see the three Trifoce holders involved in some sort of close-combat fight. You can still play as Link and fight Ganondorf as always, but CPU Zelda will be at your side casting protective and offensive spells.

I agree though i think Zelda's role was to small. I mean I wish she was apart of the story a bit more same goes with Ganondorf it was like they were thrown in at last minute which is sad because their game models were the best. At least the ending made up for that the whole teaming up was awesome and I loved the the whole light arrow scene it was my favorite. I would like to see a Zelda game where you can actually be the person who the game is named after, Zelda. Better yet I think a co-op type of adventure would be cool. Where as Link and Zelda go on an adventure together and you can choose whoever you want. Though you know eventually Zelda has to be captured and you have to save her blah blah blah. It would be something different yet something intresting.

 

[Luthien]

I agree though i think Zelda's role was to small. I mean I wish she was apart of the story a bit more same goes with Ganondorf it was like they were thrown in at last minute which is sad because their game models were the best. At least the ending made up for that the whole teaming up was awesome and I loved the the whole light arrow scene it was my favorite. I would like to see a Zelda game where you can actually be the person who the game is named after, Zelda. Better yet I think a co-op type of adventure would be cool. Where as Link and Zelda go on an adventure together and you can choose whoever you want. Though you know eventually Zelda has to be captured and you have to save her blah blah blah. It would be something different yet something intresting.

A game where you could play as Zelda? Careful what you wish for... (If you don't know what I mean by CDI, you're better off). That co-op idea is cool, too. At any rate, we can play as Zelda in Melee and Brawl, and that's all I need for now.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Zelda using Light Arrows as an attack would be totally badass. She needs attacks that actually relate to her, rather than magic attacks that were actually used by Link...

 

[HipsterKid]

A game where you could play as Zelda? Careful what you wish for... (If you don't know what I mean by CDI, you're better off). That co-op idea is cool, too. At any rate, we can play as Zelda in Melee and Brawl, and that's all I need for now.

I know exactly what you're talking about. That game... I didn't even play it. I watched gameplay for about 3 minutes. That game was horrible. Not to mention old. I wouldn't mind a Zelda game, but if it was anything like that one, then I'm going to say No thanks.

 

[-spAzn-]

A game where you could play as Zelda? Careful what you wish for... (If you don't know what I mean by CDI, you're better off). That co-op idea is cool, too. At any rate, we can play as Zelda in Melee and Brawl, and that's all I need for now.

CDI what is this you speak of? No, I heard of it and how bad it was but that's really all I know about it so i'll keep it at that.

As for the whole CPU Zelda that you mention don't even get me started your right all she freaking does is down tilt. I swear she does a running dash or neutral A on the ground, down tilt time 10 then rinse and repeat. I even tried to give her a taste of her own medicine by down tilting her but she always end up doing them back. It's so annoying and her lightning kicks have like precision aim she never misses them though I guess that's a good thing.

 

[blink777]

I would like to see a Zelda game where you can actually be the person who the game is named after, Zelda.

Exactly what I was about to say, and most certainly NOT in the way they let you play as Peach in Paper Mario. Too bad that's probably far too much to ask for.

Brawl's SSE should be enough though for the time being . I hope Zelda's storyline when she's saved from Petey is just as good/better than if you don't save her. I really don't like the prospect of letting Wario get her so I could do some better missions with her later.

EDIT: Just saw that CDi thing you were talking about... Total gross'ness.

EDIT2: On the subject of CPU Zelda. Yeah, DTilt spamming is not cool. But then, it's slightly less annoying than CPU Roy/Marth spamming Neutral A and grabs.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I would be happy if Zelda was given as much playtime as Peach in Paper Mario. Though, a lot more gameplay with Zelda would be ace xP

Even if the game switched between Link to Zelda like in Paper Mario, and Hyrule castle was under siege. Zelda, along with a few Hylian knights were making their way down the castle with various monsters patrolling. Zelda could use different styles of magic, if the Zelda was associated with the sages/ Goddesses like most are she could use small balls of light, light barriers( light barriers would act like Link's shield),, and even light arrows. Going through the hallways, and stairways of Hyrule castle as Zelda while creatures burst through the windows/ doors would definitely be enough play time for me.

Too bad even THAT is a far off dream =[

 

[Iris]

Oh I would LOVE if Zelda was playable in at least some sequences. In OoT, WW, and TP, she's shown to have at least SOME offense. A co-op Zelda game would be fantastic. Kind of like SSE missions, when the pair's together you can choose who to use.

 

[courte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L9jR7RK0

 

[Luthien]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L9jR7RK0

...


...


*Explodes* My life is fufilled. Courte, know that you have just made someone's day.

*Replays. Dances.*

 

[Airgemini]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L9jR7RK0

Wow........

 

[Circus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L9jR7RK0

This is my favorite thing in the history of things being.

 

[OniLink171]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L9jR7RK0

niiiiiiiiiiiiiice.... *favorites*

Hi all, I'm back... hope I didn't offend with my noobish sheik/zelda spamming..

Yeah, I'd really like to play as Zelda myself, maybe give her some unique moves that could be used in brawl... get on that Nintendo!

As for sheik, I'd like him as a unique character.

Down B for Zelda could be nayaru's love (it's originally a sheild in the games, so it could be a relfelctor/toad-like thing and B could be light arrows.

Down B for shiek would be.... counter!... not like Marth's, but shiek dodges the attack, the stabs with/throws a needle, so it's a long range counter too!

I don't know, but Zelda needs a unique move, and now that she's TP-ized, light arrows is all there is left.

 

[gangstajuice05]

shiek has been confirmed!!

 

[Elysium]

shiek has been confirmed!!

How come people keep saying this?

If your going to come out and say something like that back it up with some proof.

Thats like going around saying "Beast Ganon is Ganondorfs FS..... confirmed" without a source to confirm it.

 

[Fawriel]

Confirmed!
Sheik's Final Smash is a transformation ... into Tetra!

Huzzah!

 

[OniLink171]

lol.... bah nintendo took the cop-out and put in.... TOON LINK??!!! ROBOT??!!!! ......

oookkaaaayyy... this is a Zelda thread...

yeah, and zelda is exactly the same as last game. no unique moves, same horrid smashes. and to top it off, a jump-killing side-B

 

[Soluble Toast]

lol.... bah nintendo took the cop-out and put in.... TOON LINK??!!! ROBOT??!!!! ......

oookkaaaayyy... this is a Zelda thread...

yeah, and zelda is exactly the same as last game. no unique moves, same horrid smashes. and to top it off, a jump-killing side-B

What..?
Zelda has changed immensely this time around. She's been buffed like hell.
She's been referred to as a better standalone character this time around than even Sheik.

Zelda is NOT the same as Melee.
Her moves are the same, but this time, our favourite Princess is packing.

;]

 

[OniLink171]

What..?
Zelda has changed immensely this time around. She's been buffed like hell.
She's been referred to as a better standalone character this time around than even Sheik.

Zelda is NOT the same as Melee.
Her moves are the same, but this time, our favourite Princess is packing.

;]

jeez, where's your proof? look at the dojo. it says that "her movemetn capabilities are not that good"...."her magic adds power to her physical attacks". Looking at the pictures and the footage of her I've seen, she's exactly the same. Put a link up for me to see.

Oh, and for those of you who haven't seen the dojo (though that'sprobably noone)
here's the link:

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/zelda.html

EDIT: besides, I don't care how good she is. I can still own her with sheik anyday.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I have an entire thread which serves to prove why you're wrong. *It isn't even 5 topics down.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=131505

 

[Soluble Toast]

EDIT: besides, I don't care how good she is. I can still own her with sheik anyday.

A 5 year old could pick up a controller, use Sheik and own someone. Sheik was broken, and newb friendly.

Sheik has been nerfed this time around, and is no longer a god tier. I'd like to see you fight a good Zelda player in Brawl. We'll see if Sheik can own Zelda anyday e.e

 

[Drake3]

Well that was gross. But I think it's about time we saw a good Zelda fight a good Sheik since they're both pretty much on the same level.

 

[Luthien]

jeez, where's your proof? look at the dojo. it says that "her movemetn capabilities are not that good"...."her magic adds power to her physical attacks". Looking at the pictures and the footage of her I've seen, she's exactly the same. Put a link up for me to see.

Oh, and for those of you who haven't seen the dojo (though that'sprobably noone)
here's the link:

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/zelda.html

Strange. I seem to recall the Melee trophies (the dojo equivalent the Melee days) saying that Sheik lacked a good KO move. Tell me, how is that FAir of Sheik's doing? My point: the dojo can't accurately portray what competetive play will be like, especially through a character description. The dojo is only good for confirming characters, items, general special moves, and stages. Nothing more. Get some better evidence to support your opinion.

Really, if you don't think we have any proof, search through the forum. Don't make us go to the effort of rumaging throught the threads and copying and pasting the links here because you're too lazy to just go find them yourself. Show me actual proof that Zelda is the same. I don't think you can.

EDIT: besides, I don't care how good she is. I can still own her with sheik anyday.

Yeah, you look really smart now. Not only did you come into a Zelda forum and tell us that Zelda is still horrible without any valid proof, you then decide to go mouthing off and say that you can still defeat every Zelda player in a game you've never played.

Soluble Toast didn't feel the need to post proof because he assumed you weren't stupid and had actually watched some of the videos proving Zelda's been buffed. He was wrong, but that's not his fault, is it? Before saying a character's crap, actually play them.

To build on that, nobody in this forum has said that Zelda is good. We've either said that Zelda looks good or that she seems good, etc... It is blatant fact that Zelda has been buffed, and that's all we've stated. I hope even you can see that.

Soluble Toast has used fact ("She's been referred to as a better standalone character this time around than even Sheik.") to support his argument, whereas you have used an uneducated, insulting opinion and stated it as fact, ignoring the evidence clearly showing you are wrong. And then you decide to trash-talk?

I take it you haven't heard how badly Sheik's been nerfed. Get some information in your head before you post.

 

[Airgemini]

lol.... bah nintendo took the cop-out and put in.... TOON LINK??!!! ROBOT??!!!! ......

oookkaaaayyy... this is a Zelda thread...

yeah, and zelda is exactly the same as last game. no unique moves, same horrid smashes. and to top it off, a jump-killing side-B

Are you serious?! Check the sticky and watch the videos...

 

[Twilight X]

lol.... bah nintendo took the cop-out and put in.... TOON LINK??!!! ROBOT??!!!! ......

oookkaaaayyy... this is a Zelda thread...

yeah, and zelda is exactly the same as last game. no unique moves, same horrid smashes. and to top it off, a jump-killing side-B

Uhhh... have you seen RyokoYaksa's awsome Zelda thread?

 

[Luthien]

Well that was gross. But I think it's about time we saw a good Zelda fight a good Sheik since they're both pretty much on the same level.

Oh, no. Not even close. I'm a little sad that a mirrored version of Melee has occured, but I enjoy Zelda's moveset slightly more, so I'm happy that she's been buffed to the point that this time around, it's a dumb idea to transform into Sheik.

 

[CCC07]

Oh, no. Not even close. I'm a little sad that a mirrored version of Melee has occured, but I enjoy Zelda's moveset slightly more, so I'm happy that she's been buffed to the point that this time around, it's a dumb idea to transform into Sheik.

Nicely said!

 

[Drake3]

Oh, no. Not even close. I'm a little sad that a mirrored version of Melee has occured, but I enjoy Zelda's moveset slightly more, so I'm happy that she's been buffed to the point that this time around, it's a dumb idea to transform into Sheik.

Well alot of people have claimed that Zelda's the better half this time. And with the increased speed, numerous buffs, and all of the knockbacks, one can hardly argue.