New Character: Zelda.

[Iris]

Sakurai's wishes still have priority and he's perfectly able to act on them

ex: X-tunnel.

 

[Pokec]

Sakurai's wishes still have priority and he's perfectly able to act on them

ex: X-tunnel.

im sure you are smart enough to understand the inclusion of music isnt going to cause a boycott or grudge with fans against brawl.

its the selfishness of game developers.

if sakurai would only put in things he liked or wanted for brawl, d'you think you'd still have the same love for smash bros?

its cause sakurai understands variability.

 

[Iris]

So including Sheik with Zelda isn't going to cause a bit of fuss from a lot of people either? Either way, no one, I repeat, NO ONE is going to boycott SSBB because of Sheik's exclusion. Honestly, there's not people screaming "OMG NO WALUIGI? FSCK SMASH BROS!"

Sakurai cares about the fans, but not enough to go against his own wishes if they're strong enough. I don't think anyone would've preferred Lucas over Ness after Ness was in the first 2, but he still (likely) dropped Ness for that reason. If something doesn't seem right to him, he isn't going to stick with it for the sake of fan service. That's not what makes a great game. If it was, we'd be seeing Cloud, Sora, Master Chief, and Goku all in there.

 

[Pokec]

True. True.

And to clarify, I wasn't saying people were going to boycott SSBB SPECIFICALLY for Sheik -- perhaps if Sakurai had been selfish (which we know he isn't) and did his own thing, people would be a little irritated.

I guess its most easy to say Sakurai balances both fan service and personal taste.

but i also don't believe that Stiputation's comment that "Sorry, its what Sakurai wants in the game" was needed. (thats how this rant started out, right?)

 

[orintemple]

Meh, I think Shiek will be a separate character anyway. Of course having Twilight Princess Zelda becoming Shiek is stupid but as a separate character it doesn't seem too far fetched.

 

[Pokec]

im still in favour that Sheik will return by Zelda's side in a new style.

no?

 

[Stiputation]

Honestly, there's not people screaming "OMG NO WALUIGI? FSCK SMASH BROS!"

I don't think anyone would've preferred Lucas over Ness after Ness was in the first 2, but he still (likely) dropped Ness for that reason. If something doesn't seem right to him, he isn't going to stick with it for the sake of fan service. That's not what makes a great game. If it was, we'd be seeing Cloud, Sora, Master Chief, and Goku all in there.

Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats and look at the blackboard.
As you can see, my second wife Iris have hit on some very important points.

If Sakurai really based his opinions AT LEAST 70% on fan power, I don't think we would be seeing Lyn as an AT. I'm sure Sakurai has dissapointed MILLIONS of people worldwide with some of his AT ideas. However, you don't see people saying "OMG SINCE SHES AN AT AND NOT A PLAYABLE CHARACTER, I'M NOT BUYING BRAWL." Sakurai darling, has had to make many decisions. Many of which I'm sure he knows will upset the fans.

Now, please look at the overhead projector and turn in your books to page 75...

Lucas>Ness had to be one of the most uproaring choices Sakurai had to make, just looking at the anger from all of the people over at Gamefaqs. Not only that, but Sonics inclusion rose up a few mixed emotions as well. However, to this day, I still see no one saying that they won't buy Brawl because of his inclusion. If you'd like me to further break it down for you, it means Sakurai is still going to get that whopping 50 dollars regardless.

So, now, just because a few of you want Sheik to be attached to Zelda's hip and overshadow her again dosen't mean Sakurai will agree with you. Sakurai has to do this from a marketing perspective, I think he knows how much Sheik overshadowed Zelda in Melee. I don't think making Sheik separate will anger THAT many people. And if it does, SO WHAT!? If that happens, are you not going to buy Brawl? I'm sure in regards to Brawl, Sakurai has made even worse decisions.

Class is now dismissed, you will find exits to my left.

 

[Iris]

I'm going to die if Zelda's down B is a transformation into cloaked Zelda with Sheik's moveset.

 

[HipsterKid]

I'm going to die if Zelda's down B is a transformation into cloaked Zelda with Sheik's moveset.

I'd die as well. Why in the world would that happen though? It mustn't. I have to live until Brawl comes out. :D

Anyways, no matter how Sheik is included in Brawl, I think that she is going to get a subdued color scheme as well. I think Blond hair will go to Brow and all the colors on her ninja suit will get darker. But that's irrelevant.

Um, did anyone ever read my idea that I posted in another one of the Zelda threads? About starting a cult thingy...

 

[Soluble Toast]

im still in favour that Sheik will return by Zelda's side in a new style.

no?

Honestly, if Sheik returns and that's all they've done to her costume, I'll die.

6 months for a couple of golden patterns.

No thanks

Hipsterkid: I remember reading it somewhere. I think it's a great idea. =]

 

[Drake3]

If Sheik returns it's not going to be like that. If I could still draw, I'd show you how I envision it.

 

[vato_break]

it could be a zelda /midna transformation
you never know

 

[Elysium]

I'm going to die if Zelda's down B is a transformation into cloaked Zelda with Sheik's moveset.

I would laugh. Plain and simple.

 

[knuckles_18]

still haven't got her final smash or special moves leaving the door wide open for shiek as well but i dont care either way.

 

[Iris]

My beef isn't with Sheik, but rather Zelda's most representative playing style being cut short. It's like Links sword moves being replaced by Bombchus, slingshots, and Deku nuts. They don't represent Link like the Master sword does, just like a transformation into a physical fighter doesn't represent Zelda as much as magic abilities do.

 

[Airgemini]

I hope Sheik is not part of her moveset.

 

[HipsterKid]

My beef isn't with Sheik, but rather Zelda's most representative playing style being cut short. It's like Links sword moves being replaced by Bombchus, slingshots, and Deku nuts. They don't represent Link like the Master sword does, just like a transformation into a physical fighter doesn't represent Zelda as much as magic abilities do.

But one thing that Zelda, from Melee, had that she actually got from the game was the transformation. Farore's Wind, Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love were all Link's, even though they fit Zelda tons more than they do Link.

On another topic, did anyone notice that Farore's Wind has a new animation? At least, I think it did. I think that it's the same animation from the Subspace Emissary video, when she goes in to help save Mario and Kirby. It has that little motion where it kind of compresses in and expands and does that again. I don't really know how to explain it well but it has changed slightly.

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

I'm going to die if her FS is Possesed Zelda. I mean in what head someone can think this? If I'm possesed I'm stronger right? This is so f***ing stupid. And I pray to Smash God that Zelda's Down B is not Sheik. I'm going to die if I see Sheik in Brawl as a character.

 

[Iris]

It actually looks more like a warp than her just twirling around and flashing green.

Anyways, though Sheik is a canon ability for OoT Zelda, it's poor representation for all Zeldas, especially when Sheik had a BSed moveset anyways. Zelda's not a punch-kick-jab kind of person. I've never seen that kind of fighting in anyone but Tetra, and Zelda's frail looking body shouldn't be using those moves, no matter what clothes she's wearing. It seems odd for the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom to be represented by a physical fighter. It's like Ganon using Nayru's Love or Link having a dark purple glow to his hands.

 

[SeventhSage]

Here's what I want for Zelda in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Let me know if you agree.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Standard B: Nayru's Love. It should have more range and, either deal more damage or have more knockback.

Side B: Din's Fire. It seems buffed so far, so that's good. It badly needs a larger area of effect and more speed. It wouldn't hurt if it was more easily manoeuvrable.

Up B: Farore's Wind. It should deal more damage or at least makes her invulnerable for longer. Some say it also deals damage when she reappears; I think that's a must.

Down B: Transform. Zelda should transform into a Twilight'ized Sheik and that's all there is to say. Forget Midna and forget Sheik as a separate character.

Final Smash: I'd like Zelda to gain flight and shoot light arrows or energy orbs like in Twilight Princess. It could also be cool if she had that huge beam of light from Ocarina of Time.

(as Sheik)

Standard B: Needle Storm. Please don't nerf this move.

Side B: Chain Whip. BUFF THIS ! What am I supposed to do with that ? Brandish it violently at my bloodthirsty enemies ? It's kinda okay for a projectile cancel but come on, anything else would work better.

Up B: Vanish. I love this move. It would be better with a shorter lag at the end though.

Down B: Transform back into the powerful brunette.

Final Smash: Anything with shadow-oriented magic would be great. I think Sheik could do a million things. Zelda and Sheik should definetly have separate final smashes. Use the two in different situations, for example: Zelda's could rank up damage while Sheik's could send flying.

Buffs: I don't think Sheik needs any buffs, but she shouldn't be nerfed. Zelda however should be buffed a lot. She needs:
-Faster running speed
-Better jumps (especially the second jump)
-Faster falling speed
-Better A jab
-Better NAIR
-Better DAIR (she badly needs this!)

 

[Pokec]

I'm going to die if her FS is Possesed Zelda. I mean in what head someone can think this? If I'm possesed I'm stronger right? This is so f***ing stupid. And I pray to Smash God that Zelda's Down B is not Sheik. I'm going to die if I see Sheik in Brawl as a character.

and im going to laugh and clap with pure bliss!

honestly. dont fix something that isnt broken.

just even out zelda's stats and keep sheik.

that should please both sides of the crowd.

 

[Soluble Toast]

and im going to laugh and clap with pure bliss!

honestly. dont fix something that isnt broken.

just even out zelda's stats and keep sheik.

that should please both sides of the crowd.

Technically, Sheik is broken, therefore it must be fixed =P

 

[Pokec]

Technically, Sheik is broken, therefore it must be fixed =P

interesting.





all i see here is people complaining about zelda being too weak and sheik being an unfair advantage.

 

[Stiputation]

Sheik should be separate period.

Until all this Sheik transformation optimism came around, all I saw were people complaining because Zelda got in there way and how they only used Sheik.
Now, all I see is people wanting Sheik to be back simply because Zelda has a better vetical recovery and they plan on using to their advantage.

However, it makes it unfair for the Zelda mainers, seeing as though they have to designate one move to a character they don't want to use.
Honestly, I'm expecting someone to try to proove me wrong. But I just wanted to point out how it felt from a Zelda mainer that didn't really care for Sheik. Hopefully Sakurai will see it the same way.

 

[Airgemini]

Yeah hopefully...I wouldnt mind him as an Assist trophy

 

[HipsterKid]

The problem with Sheik mainers or Zelda mainers is that they do not see the story through the eyes of the other. The best possible way is to see it through the eyes of someone who is a Zelda/Sheik mainer. Zelda mainers despise the fact of Zelda being attached to Sheik for another game and Sheik mainers mock Zelda for being so weak.

Playing as both, you'd realize that Sheik, even if broken, can be fixed and would still make a great addition to Brawl, and that Zelda, even if she takes time to learn, is powerful and can be very useful. Everyone seems to ignore the other character. You have have played with, for more than just a week, both to realize the other's true potential.

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

Well, if they like so much Sheik and we like so much Zelda, why then they just separate Zelda from Sheik so that both, Zelda mainers and Sheik mainers will be happy with their character. I hate that one of Zelda's or Sheik's smash be transformation. I would prefer it as another attack but not an attack with B.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

I think Zelda should have a different down B move, and probably have Sheik as her Final Smash.

 

[Luthien]

Well, if they like so much Sheik and we like so much Zelda, why then they just separate Zelda from Sheik so that both, Zelda mainers and Sheik mainers will be happy with their character. I hate that one of Zelda's or Sheik's smash be transformation. I would prefer it as another attack but not an attack with B.

There are lots of things we have to consider here.

First: There is no way everybody is going to end up happy. Some people are going to get what they want, and some people aren't. The sooner we face that fact, the sooner people stop trying to find the perfect (non-existant) solution, and the sooner these debates end.

Second: Now that we know that there is no perfect solution, we can now learn that there is no exact ONE thing that nintendo could/should do. Debating likelihood is first and foremost, not going to change anything at this point, and second, hardly accurate. We aren't designing Zelda's moveset, so how do we know what's most likely to be done.

Granted, there are some things which can be blatantly labeled as likely and not likely. For example, which is more likely for Zelda's final smash: Zelda changing into Sheik, or Zelda summoning a meteor storm from space and a spaceship crashes on screen, dealing an undodgeable, one-hit-kill to everyone but Zelda? Be honest with yourself; the question wasn't "What makes more sense?" (and even then, it's blatantly obvious because I exaggerated), but "What is more likely?". In other words, what is Nintendo more likely to consider?

Third: I don't know, you think of something.

So basically, nobody really knows more than anyone else, so we should all put our own wishes aside and try to keep some harmony. Hipsterkid was right: if we simply walked in each others shoes for a moment, there would be a lot less pointless argueing going on.

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

Let's see:
I know that there is not a pefect solution for both Zelda and Sheik Mainers, but it could be a solution.

For the Final Smash:
Time freezes. Zelda appears and hits everyone with the beam that she used in Ocarina of Time and then disappear using Farore's wind. Then appears Sheik and attacks with all of her killing arsenal and dissapears using her Vanish. Then, Zelda appears using Farore's Wind and leaves a lot of Light arrows floating in the Sky going downwards and then she floats in the left corner. Then, Sheik appears and leaves all her Needles floating in the sky with the light arrows all mixed and then she floats in the right corner. Finally, Zelda and Sheik move to the middle of the screen and you decide if you want to fight with Zelda or Sheik. Now when the time defreezes, both the light arrows and the needles go downward and hit all oponents.

If she had passes half of the year with no update, this could be the explanation? :D. I know its powerful, but they both disserve it.
For both Zelda and Sheik mainers, maybe we just could live in peace. Zelda being buffed and Sheik being buffed ONLY in her B sideways because it was very unuseful. So they would be both very powerful and now we wouldn't had any kind of fight.

P.D: OMG I wrote a lot ! lol

 

[Luthien]

Let's see:
I know that there is not a pefect solution for both Zelda and Sheik Mainers, but it could be a solution.

For the Final Smash:
Time freezes. Zelda appears and hits everyone with the beam that she used in Ocarina of Time and then disappear using Farore's wind. Then appears Sheik and attacks with all of her killing arsenal and dissapears using her Vanish. Then, Zelda appears using Farore's Wind and leaves a lot of Light arrows floating in the Sky going downwards and then she floats in the left corner. Then, Sheik appears and leaves all her Needles floating in the sky with the light arrows all mixed and then she floats in the right corner. Now when the time defreezes, both the light arrows and the needles go downward and hit all oponents.
If she had passes half of the year with no update, this could be the explanation? :D. I know its powerful, but they both disserve it.
For both Zelda and Sheik mainers, maybe we just could live in peace. Zelda being buffed and Sheik being buffed ONLY in her B sideways because it was very unuseful. So they would be both very powerful and now we wouldn't had any kind of fight.

P.D: OMG I wrote a lot ! lol

A good idea, but I doubt it's in the game, simply because there's so much going on. Not to mention the fact that they probably hadn't thought of it. A great idea nontheless. Would the Final Smash end with Zelda being in Sheik form?

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

That is what I just edited. I forgot about it. You could use in which form you want to fight with. I know it's too much and I also think that they haven't thought about that idea.
P.D: Is my English good?

 

[Drake3]

Hipsterkid was right: if we simply walked in each others shoes for a moment, there would be a lot less pointless argueing going on.

I think s/he meant that we divide the character Zelda into two separate beings, Zelda and Sheik, but that we should try to see them as a whole instead of picking a side and trying to rip the other apart.

 

[Luthien]

I think s/he meant that we divide the character Zelda into two separate beings, Zelda and Sheik, but that we should try to see them as a whole instead of picking a side and trying to rip the other apart.

Fine. Be right. See if I care.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[Drake3]

Fine. Be right. See if I care.

Thank you for the correction.

I like Emma Frost too :3.

 

[Iris]

The thing is though, I don't want to see them as a combined entity since they aren't. Only in one game.

 

[Luthien]

I like Emma Frost too :3.

Who doesn't?

@ Iris: So my interpritation was right afterall? Whatever. Anyway, we've been through that ten billion times, and now there's nothing we can do but wait. *Yoga Pose*

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

Can somebody tell me who is Emma Frost?

 

[Airgemini]

A mutant from the X-men comics.

 

[Iris]

I'm pretty sure Hipster meant that the best way to look at them objectively is to look at them the way the developers intended for them to be used, as a pair.

I just can't think of them as one because of the huge inequalities they had and my ideal that Zelda shouldn't be a paired character. I'd rather see the idea given up on and attempted with less important characters than see Zelda used once more as a guinea pig for transformations. That's really the only reason to keep Sheik, to continue the transformation gimmick and try to make it more successful. Sheik's an alright character, but anyone who thinks Sheik got in because she was interesting and significant is in denial.