New Character: Zelda.

[GameAngel64]

I'd prefer they speed her up a wee bit. She looks like she may be wearing cloth boots instead of heels anyway, I wonder if that makes any difference

I haven't played OoT in a while, but I don't remember Zelda using Din's Fire at all, only Link - and it looked a lot different. Maybe it was just easier to keep her with the old moves, than to make completely new ones that worked. Zelda's in-game "brawling" experience has been pretty minor and limited, and anyway the moves she uses presently represent the goddesses, so there is still a relevance to them even now.

 

[Katy Parry]

yeah, i like dins fire, though.

 

[Takalth]

They don't need to speed her up. It bugs me that this is the default suggestion to improve every low to mid tier character. "I want <insert character here> to be able to compete with fox, so let's make them more like fox."

There are tons of things you could do with Zelda without reverting to the generic fix:
Give Din's fire really good stun time, so it has better combo-ability to make up for the risk in using it. Also, let her use it in the air and still perform other actions afterward (were they worried that using din's fire while recovering would be overpowered)

Make her d-air a spike instead of an extra-slow meteor, and add at least a little stun time to it.
Give her an upsmash that doesn't suck.

Make her up-air's power as impressive as its visuals.

Add a creative and useful down+b if they remove sheik, and if not, make a combination of transform+attack so that you can start a combo in one form and end it in another (this would necessitate a nerfing of sheik, but if she stays, that's probably coming anyway).

Really, making a slow character faster should be the last resort for balance. One of Smash's greatest virtues is the amazing variety in characters. Name another fighting game with two characters as different as Ganondorf and Jigglypuff (who happen to be very close to each other on the tier list). Balance characters by giving them their own unique strengths instead of all of the same strengths.

 

[Fawriel]

Thank. You. Takalth.
I give you imaginary rep, even though I'm not even sure what it is.

As far as I'm concerned, Zelda was going to be defensive, so she should have some more range coupled with disjointed hitboxes, an awesome grab range, an actually GOOD recovery and the best rolls and dodges in the game. Give her a move that allows her to break out of combos ( she's COMPLETELY helpless if approached from below ), and finally, smashes that actually hit enemies.

-Unescapable smashes
-Good recovery
-Small adjustments in range and invincibility frames
(-More speed [and priority?] on her dair for combo-breaking )

Instant decent character. Just add water!

 

[GameAngel64]

They don't need to speed her up. It bugs me that this is the default suggestion to improve every low to mid tier character. "I want <insert character here> to be able to compete with fox, so let's make them more like fox."

There are tons of things you could do with Zelda without reverting to the generic fix:
Give Din's fire really good stun time, so it has better combo-ability to make up for the risk in using it. Also, let her use it in the air and still perform other actions afterward (were they worried that using din's fire while recovering would be overpowered)

Make her d-air a spike instead of an extra-slow meteor, and add at least a little stun time to it.
Give her an upsmash that doesn't suck.

Make her up-air's power as impressive as its visuals.

Add a creative and useful down+b if they remove sheik, and if not, make a combination of transform+attack so that you can start a combo in one form and end it in another (this would necessitate a nerfing of sheik, but if she stays, that's probably coming anyway).

Really, making a slow character faster should be the last resort for balance. One of Smash's greatest virtues is the amazing variety in characters. Name another fighting game with two characters as different as Ganondorf and Jigglypuff (who happen to be very close to each other on the tier list). Balance characters by giving them their own unique strengths instead of all of the same strengths.

As a Zelda player, the desire for an increase in speed is not blind and arbitrary, but stems from experience where one finds that often Zelda is just TOO slow. Remember, speed (at least as I mean it) does not just mean "make her run faster" - how about her GRABBING speed?? Certainly one of the slowest in the game, if not THE slowest, and with poor range to boot. Also, no one said that an increase in speed is the only way to improve Zelda. Certainly it is the most obvious improvement that could be made, however. Nonetheless, I don't think anyone hopes or expects the speed of her mobility to rival Fox.

 

[Rion Prower]

Firstly, whoo hoo! Zelda in Brawl~ battery charged heels and all!

Her big outfit change did surprise me (thought I was expecting it in a way), but now I'm quite pleased with the design; much more serious-toned and mature than the "pink princess cliche" from the previous game.

But to swing back to the current topic at hand:

Yes, Zelda could use quite a few improvements; though I'm not expecting her to jump all the way to top tier or anything. In fact, I'm hoping that everyone in the game will be made more "equal" statistically. By more I mean improving lesser characters rather than pulling down more powerful ones (unless one of said powerful characters has an easy infinite combo or something of the sort, as said before).

Some ideas (hopefully new, viable and/or elaborated ones):

- Her Ftilt is actually not that bad; but it has terrible range! It's kind of good because it usually sends the opponent into the air nicely for some aerial follow-up, but it's range and speed cripple it. Maybe just make it more of horizontal knock back rather than vertical? Hm...

- Usmash is way too easily DI'ed out of. I'd assume most Zelda users use Utilt instead of this most of the time because of it's much better coverage and just more reliable in general because you don't need to wait for the last hit to send an opponent flying.

- Fsmash could have a bit more of a "black hole" quality with the multi-hitting sparks maybe to solve the DI problem? AKA, the initial sparks of the Fsmash could draw the opponent into the attack, so that the last hit could actually land (kind of like Young Link's Sword Spin in SSBM). This could apply to Usmash as well maybe?

- Nair... oh if only it was like Peach's wonderful Nair. Same animation practically, but way different. Because it comes out as a long "multi hit with actual knock back only on the last hit", you tend to miss the very last smack because
1) You land before you can get to that final twirl.
2) You opponent gets hit by the initial "stunning" hits, but managed to get an aerial move between hits.
3) Your opponent DI's out of it, and counters with their own aerial.
Maybe just make it more like a SEX kick?

- Uair is quite laggy to start up and has low range for such a huge explosion... seriously impairing it's KO capabilities. Improve the start up, range and perhaps vertical knock back?

- Dair could have more spiking power perhaps? Also maybe some actual coverage for opponents under her? Zelda has a heck of a time dealing with opponents below her due to a lack of effective attacks that can cover down below so... maybe this might help?

- Nayru's Love has a terrible recovery time. Shorten that up a bit?

- Din's Fire is actually pretty cool and interesting to use if you use it right. Though they could maybe give the "fireball" a bit more maneuverability (kind of , and perhaps increase it's power and explosion range?

- Farore's Wind is a big nuisance sometimes. Less lag times and more DI capablities after you teleport (a bit like Mewtwo's Teleport)?

- Grabs could definitely use a boost in speed and range.

Of course, not expecting all of this to even make it in. Heck, some of her moves might get totally changed but, one can hope for the best! Here's to hoping for a more competitive Zelda!

 

[<π]

judging from the trailers multi hit attacks a on the up and up. I plan on having zelda as one of my mains. (But... I'm maining everyone)

 

[GameAngel64]

Firstly, whoo hoo! Zelda in Brawl~ battery charged heels and all!

Her big outfit change did surprise me (thought I was expecting it in a way), but now I'm quite pleased with the design; much more serious-toned and mature than the "pink princess cliche" from the previous game.

But to swing back to the current topic at hand:

Yes, Zelda could use quite a few improvements; though I'm not expecting her to jump all the way to top tier or anything. In fact, I'm hoping that everyone in the game will be made more "equal" statistically. By more I mean improving lesser characters rather than pulling down more powerful ones (unless one of said powerful characters has an easy infinite combo or something of the sort, as said before).

Some ideas (hopefully new, viable and/or elaborated ones):

- Her Ftilt is actually not that bad; but it has terrible range! It's kind of good because it usually sends the opponent into the air nicely for some aerial follow-up, but it's range and speed cripple it. Maybe just make it more of horizontal knock back rather than vertical? Hm...

- Usmash is way too easily DI'ed out of. I'd assume most Zelda users use Utilt instead of this most of the time because of it's much better coverage and just more reliable in general because you don't need to wait for the last hit to send an opponent flying.

- Fsmash could have a bit more of a "black hole" quality with the multi-hitting sparks maybe to solve the DI problem? AKA, the initial sparks of the Fsmash could draw the opponent into the attack, so that the last hit could actually land (kind of like Young Link's Sword Spin in SSBM). This could apply to Usmash as well maybe?

- Nair... oh if only it was like Peach's wonderful Nair. Same animation practically, but way different. Because it comes out as a long "multi hit with actual knock back only on the last hit", you tend to miss the very last smack because
1) You land before you can get to that final twirl.
2) You opponent gets hit by the initial "stunning" hits, but managed to get an aerial move between hits.
3) Your opponent DI's out of it, and counters with their own aerial.
Maybe just make it more like a SEX kick?

- Uair is quite laggy to start up and has low range for such a huge explosion... seriously impairing it's KO capabilities. Improve the start up, range and perhaps vertical knock back?

- Dair could have more spiking power perhaps? Also maybe some actual coverage for opponents under her? Zelda has a heck of a time dealing with opponents below her due to a lack of effective attacks that can cover down below so... maybe this might help?

- Nayru's Love has a terrible recovery time. Shorten that up a bit?

- Din's Fire is actually pretty cool and interesting to use if you use it right. Though they could maybe give the "fireball" a bit more maneuverability (kind of , and perhaps increase it's power and explosion range?

- Farore's Wind is a big nuisance sometimes. Less lag times and more DI capablities after you teleport (a bit like Mewtwo's Teleport)?

- Grabs could definitely use a boost in speed and range.

Of course, not expecting all of this to even make it in. Heck, some of her moves might get totally changed but, one can hope for the best! Here's to hoping for a more competitive Zelda!

Don't know if you've been here in some form before, but good first post, guy!

All good ideas. The problems with the U-Smash and the F-Smash are not as crippling in version 1.0 of the game - the difference is really noticeable between playing my version of the game at home, and playing my friend's version at his house.

One of the favorite complaints is that Zelda's U-air is not nearly as strong as it looks... it's a huge fire ball for heaven's sake!

Her D-Air is practically a joke, and that's almost how I use it most of the time. It has its moments, but I agree it needs to be more viable, more often.

Anyway, all good ideas being said, I worry they won't deliver... for whatever reason, in every version of SSBM beyond 1.0, they felt the need to nerf her and make her even worse. I hope for this Brawl incarnation they've figured out to reverse that trend and make her better (in fact, I hope they make everyone to be on a more "level ground," so people can actually play the characters they like, and have a chance to win, rather than pick the characters who win and learn to like 'em ).

 

[Sporkman]

I noticed something so so so scandalous recently. A passing glance at Zelda in someones sig made me think they'd done something naughty, but after looking at the original, it does appear Zelda has been in a wet t-shirt competition

Well that is one sure-fire way to bring in the punters.

 

[Fawriel]

I noticed something so so so scandalous recently. A passing glance at Zelda in someones sig made me think they'd done something naughty, but after looking at the original, it does appear Zelda has been in a wet t-shirt competition

http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/characters/images/zelda/zelda.jpg

Well that is one sure-fire way to bring in the punters.

Zelda is H2OT!

Oh, punters, not punsters.

 

[Katy Parry]

Speaking of Zelda, like my sig?

 

[Sporkman]

Very good Fawriel, I laughed at least.

And ethan, it was infact your sig I saw

 

[Katy Parry]

Very good Fawriel, I laughed at least.

And ethan, it was infact your sig I saw

how is it "perverted"?

 

[Sporkman]

Well I just edited the colours on the original image to see if it became any more obvious, but alas, it would appear my mind is playing tricks on me, perhaps an indication to get out more.. But at that resolution it just looks a bit too transparent.

 

[Rion Prower]

Don't know if you've been here in some form before, but good first post, guy!

All good ideas. The problems with the U-Smash and the F-Smash are not as crippling in version 1.0 of the game - the difference is really noticeable between playing my version of the game at home, and playing my friend's version at his house.

One of the favorite complaints is that Zelda's U-air is not nearly as strong as it looks... it's a huge fire ball for heaven's sake!

Her D-Air is practically a joke, and that's almost how I use it most of the time. It has its moments, but I agree it needs to be more viable, more often.

Anyway, all good ideas being said, I worry they won't deliver... for whatever reason, in every version of SSBM beyond 1.0, they felt the need to nerf her and make her even worse. I hope for this Brawl incarnation they've figured out to reverse that trend and make her better (in fact, I hope they make everyone to be on a more "level ground," so people can actually play the characters they like, and have a chance to win, rather than pick the characters who win and learn to like 'em ).

Haha, I've actually lurked around for sometime and only decided to post now. I play Smash casually and seriously sort of, though I've never been to any tournaments or anything (Maybe I should try some Brawl tournaments after it comes out!)

Oh! And thanks for the first post praise ^ ^ I'm glad I can make some valid points. But anyways...

I've never thought about different versions of SSBM... it certainly sounds frustrating. I've personally never noticed, but then again I've never tried to compare. Let's hope they don't do that with Brawl!

Thought of some more interesting things to note:

- In the new E3 video (the 15 second one and what's the deal with her getting owned by that bomb at the Bridge of Eldin? No love for Zelda ; ; ), it's pretty much confirmed that Din's Fire is returning... with a flashier look and with some nifty sound effects. Compared to the old game, it does look like it might have a bigger radius since the initial fire ball looks bigger (not to mention cooler looking :D I swear though every time I see this video those Din's Fire sound effects remind me of Final Fantasy 6...) If it could have the controllability of Ness's PK Thunder and maybe explode a little faster when we want it to, it might become more widely used and more useful.

- I remember seeing this picture in Zelda's Profile:

I don't remember seeing Zelda in this pose before. It looks a like her NeutralA or maybe a revamped Fsmash? Then again, it looks a bit like she's about to transform into Sheik- *smacked across the head* OK, OK, moving on.

- This is just a graphics note, nothing serious but wow! No more legs out of that dress! Zelda's dress model in SSBM was terrible... her legs were flying out of that dress all the time! This time, it looks like they improved it a bit; no weird limbs sticking out as of yet which I hope stays that way!

- Dair... Ness has almost the exactly same one, except he was smart and battery charged that foot. Hey, if her Fair/Bair can pack that punch, why can't Dair? The only difference is that Dair is aiming downwards rather than sideways. I guess she wants to conserve electricity maybe? Hmm...

And yes, I'm hoping too they make everyone better so that everyone can use their favourite characters rather than the "tournament" ones. Crossing my fingers!

 

[Katy Parry]

omg....A Lightning Dair!

 

[lanky_gunner]

huh, i just noticed i haven't posted in this thread yet.

well, i've been a little bit of a just zelda user when melee came out, but lost it when i got some of the secret characters. however recently i've been using Zelda and Sheik more and i'm proud to say both of them are some of my top played characters and one of my few secondaries.

i love the TP look they gave her. really i've been in love with Zelda since Ocarina, and i'm glad nintendo still gives her the beautiful look she always has, but with this design it makes her look more like a fighter.

Zelda is the hotness that brings males to their knees.

 

[Katy Parry]

That's so sick to think a video-game character is "attractive".

 

[lanky_gunner]

well then call me sick. i also think Samus, Peach, and the girls from DOA are pretty sexy

 

[SpitFire15]

There's nothing wrong with finding a female character attractive. Wanting to have intercourse with one is the sick part.

 

[Takalth]

Anyway, all good ideas being said, I worry they won't deliver... for whatever reason, in every version of SSBM beyond 1.0, they felt the need to nerf her and make her even worse.

Makes you wonder if Zelda and Sheik were balanced as a single character instead of separately. "Hey, this zelda/sheik kills everyone. Find some moves to nerf."

 

[Steven Hail]

I'm hoping for a confirmation of Sheik next week, but if not, then maybe the newcomers we've seen, or ones we haven't yet.

 

[Stryks]

Dont gte ur hopes one Sheik or never before seen newcomers...

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Not sure if anyone said this.. And I never played TP
Maybe her D+B makes her take out the sword? and then she has an entire new moveset?

 

[Stryks]

I hope not, I think she'll probably have a sword attack for one of her B moves, and then hides it, could be a magic slash or the energy ball from TP... but god I hope theres no sword moveset, that aitn zeldas style...

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Ah, it was just a thought. Would be interesting ><

 

[Gindor]

Zelda's sword probably won't be in her moveset, but maybe the sword will replace the lazer sword, just a thought. It would be cool though.

 

[Arean]

Haha, I've actually lurked around for sometime and only decided to post now. I play Smash casually and seriously sort of, though I've never been to any tournaments or anything (Maybe I should try some Brawl tournaments after it comes out!)

Oh! And thanks for the first post praise ^ ^ I'm glad I can make some valid points. But anyways...

I've never thought about different versions of SSBM... it certainly sounds frustrating. I've personally never noticed, but then again I've never tried to compare. Let's hope they don't do that with Brawl!

Thought of some more interesting things to note:

- In the new E3 video (the 15 second one and what's the deal with her getting owned by that bomb at the Bridge of Eldin? No love for Zelda ; ; ), it's pretty much confirmed that Din's Fire is returning... with a flashier look and with some nifty sound effects. Compared to the old game, it does look like it might have a bigger radius since the initial fire ball looks bigger (not to mention cooler looking :D I swear though every time I see this video those Din's Fire sound effects remind me of Final Fantasy 6...) If it could have the controllability of Ness's PK Thunder and maybe explode a little faster when we want it to, it might become more widely used and more useful.

- I remember seeing this picture in Zelda's Profile:

I don't remember seeing Zelda in this pose before. It looks a like her NeutralA or maybe a revamped Fsmash? Then again, it looks a bit like she's about to transform into Sheik- *smacked across the head* OK, OK, moving on.

- This is just a graphics note, nothing serious but wow! No more legs out of that dress! Zelda's dress model in SSBM was terrible... her legs were flying out of that dress all the time! This time, it looks like they improved it a bit; no weird limbs sticking out as of yet which I hope stays that way!

- Dair... Ness has almost the exactly same one, except he was smart and battery charged that foot. Hey, if her Fair/Bair can pack that punch, why can't Dair? The only difference is that Dair is aiming downwards rather than sideways. I guess she wants to conserve electricity maybe? Hmm...

And yes, I'm hoping too they make everyone better so that everyone can use their favourite characters rather than the "tournament" ones. Crossing my fingers!

that picture... that is a dins fire pose, i tried it with zelda on melee and paused it, you can try if you want. just pause it fast, i also thught it was neutral A but no.... it was din's fire, ill post a picture next time to prove it....

 

[O D I N]

omg....A Lightning Dair!

You mean Ganondorf's Dair? >_>

 

[Katy Parry]

I mean if they made Zelda's Dair like Fair=Awesomeness!

 

[tstumo]

I dont think Zelda needs too be faster. that dress is to big for her to manuever that well in it so it makes sense that she naturally be slower. her Physical attacks should be limited and be more magic based. which is something they got right in melee. what they didnt get right was the strength knockback etc of those moves. I think she'll be fine without shiek.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Mmm magic.. Magic for everything... does she do a lot of damage? Never really compared.

 

[Gindor]

I'm hoping for a confirmation of Sheik next week, but if not, then maybe the newcomers we've seen, or ones we haven't yet.

There might be a chance of that. You know how samus an zamus are actually the same person (maybe from different times?). Think about if they released TP zelda and then OoT shiek.
It would practically be the same thing, which makes me think if they might put tetra in the game. I hope not, nothing against her, she's just short which would make her a less likely choice of mine and the fact that will be another form of zelda.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Is it just me, or does Zelda's fsmash look larger?
And yes, a slight mobility boost to Zelda would be great. She simply moved around TOO slowly in Melee. I would go as far to say that, of all the Melee cast, Zelda "plays" the slowest.

 

[shotafan]

Freakin sexy! It doesn't matter if she sux, I'll pick her any day!

 

[Fawriel]

Unfortunately, a lot of characters seem to have increased range in their attacks... seriously, it's been noticed for Link, Fox, Bowser, Zelda, Pikachu, Mario..... =/

Maybe the newly increased ranges ( if even existent ) just apply to some attacks, though. Otherwise, it wouldn't be too much of an improvement, since range is.. relative.

Or maybe there just won't be such illogically large, invisible hitboxes this time and the ranges actually didn't change at all. That could be sweet.

 

[Katy Parry]

Very sweet. I wish Zeldas Dair & DSmash could be lighting based, just like her Fair. Would that be awesome?

Agree/dis?

Any ideas on her final smash?

SIX SAGES, NOW! Instant K.O.

 

[SpitFire15]

I dont think Zelda needs too be faster. that dress is to big for her to manuever that well in it so it makes sense that she naturally be slower.

Peach runs acceptionally well and she wears a dress.

Unfortunately, a lot of characters seem to have increased range in their attacks... seriously, it's been noticed for Link, Fox, Bowser, Zelda, Pikachu, Mario..... =/

And this is a bad thing?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I would like a whole new feel to Zelda. But to admit, if shes not any faster than she is now. I might stop using her. I was a Zelda/Sheik user, I would switch back a forth depending on the situation. And since some people agree that Sheik won't be in the game, she might be too slow for me for all around play.

 

[Gindor]

Very sweet. I wish Zeldas Dair & DSmash could be lighting based, just like her Fair. Would that be awesome?

Agree/dis?

Any ideas on her final smash?

SIX SAGES, NOW! Instant K.O.

My idea before (or at least an idea I agreed with), was that she summoned up the sages to bind foes and grant her the arrows of light. She then fires one into a foe to deal incredible damage, but now I wonder how she'll damage the other stunned foes, wait!
After the sages stun the foes and she shoots one for incredible damage, she pulls out her sword while the foes are stunned (and for a decent amount of time if not great) and you take control of her and get changed moveset (at least a little) that includes the sword, much like marth's with the tip being the sweet spot.

Edit so I don't have to double post-To spitfire15-the range increasing of zelda isn't bad, but since everyone else is getting it, it isn't that good. she needs a solid boost that others don't get to get easier to use against other players.