[Nesu] It's so deserted here I could find Criminal Caterpillars. (Post here if you're cool)

[Uffe]

I guess I'm not cool :\

Nah. You're cool. I was just kidding about the whole thing. There are a few mainers I like, though and Bowser mains are one of them.

 

[Criosphinx]

I think I'm pretty cool...

 

[1337-Zero]

I guess Im not cool :\

You've worked your way towards coolness. All maining Ness does is make you instantly cool.

Aside from that fact, Bowser invented the concept of "cool".

 

[CarVac]

By the title of this thread, anyone who posts here is cool (anyone, regardless of main, who hangs around the Ness boards is cool too).

 

[Dajayman]

I was too cool for school before I was even conceived. But I decided "Eh, I need to get smart." so I went to school and got some brains to eat (I'm part zombie).

 

[Pollyanna]

I drew a sweet pic of Ness yesterday.

Need to shade/color it though, but it's still pretty sweet as a sketch.

Will post it if I can get my scanner to work.

 

[NintenJoe]

http://starmen.net/index2.php

http://ebfgp.net/

Drop in and watch EBFGP tonight at around 7 PM Eastern time. I watched it yesterday and it was pretty sweet. They're playing from after Frank until giant step.

 

[Cacti]

Crap, I was going to post that...

They're starting EBFGP now, I just hope it'll be as funny as the last.

 

[prOAPC]

man, i realised that everytime i come to the Ness board, is just for trolling i feel bad but i kinda hate Ness... i used to have Ness as a secondary, but then i met a Ness main and he ***** me T_T (Ness ditto), i just had to use Lucas and everything was fine then, i said goodbye to Ness, it was like "gtfo you loser", then played with G&W, but Snake still ***** him... and so on, tried MK, Luigi, TL, etc... i'm still looking for a good secondary, DDD is my "secondary" right now...

anyway, copy/paste from Lucas board:

so, i'm going to my first doubles tournament and i was practicing with my teammate APN some stuff, he's going to use Ness We were studying situations where we both could recover, and it looks like we can recover from 60% to 90% per match (obviously, Lucas recover more), is that good or bad?
btw, our team is called "APK"... got it? APC...APN...PK...

 

[Neon Ness]

man, i realised that everytime i come to the Ness board, is just for trolling i feel bad but i kinda hate Ness...

Don't worry, we hate you, too. D:<

Anytime you recover %, it's good... I don't understand what you mean by "Is that good or bad?".

Also, I think DDD works as a great secondary for Lucas; I can't think of any characters he does absolutely horrible against, and it makes fighting Marth/G&W/DK a heck of a lot easier than with Lucas, I would think. Wario's another one you should consider trying out.

Make sure you help your Ness teammate recover whenever (s)he needs it.

 

[prOAPC]

i don't know, maybe some player with more experience in doubles play, specially with psi boys team can say something like "taht sux mah friend n i recover 300% per match"

 

[Uffe]

Ness and/or Lucas are safe around 60-90%. It takes awhile for both to die, but Lucas dies a little earlier. If you can get the team down to one opponent, then you should be able to knock them away from the stage and heal each other. If you plan on healing Ness, your best bet is to be right next to him. Chances are Ness won't be grabbed.

Say Ness was going to heal you with PK Flash and you both weren't very close to each other. If the opponent landed an attack on you, Ness might release his PK Flash which could kill you. If both of you are close to each other and the opponent comes to hit Lucas, then he'll most likely hit Ness as well which would cancel the PK Flash. Of course that could also be risky if both of you are at high percent.

It's just something to think about.

 

[Levitas]

aren't lucas and ness the same weight? what's more, doesn't lucas fall faster? doesn't it therefore follow that lucas dies off the top later, and with a longer PKT2 that he doesn't need to die off the side before ness?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

iirc Ness is heavier by a small amount, and has better braking abilities with his aerials.

 

[AvariceX]

So I just realized that I really wish I could find an instrumental-only version of "Home Again" by Dale North in the Bound Together collection - the lyrics he added near the end turned a relaxing melody into something really lame and gay XD.

Don't worry prOAPC - the only reason I don't go to the Lucas boards is because I know the only reason I would have for going there is to troll.

 

[Dajayman]

Ness is definitely heavier than Lucas by a decent amount. I have no idea who has the faster fall speed, but other factors like horizontal aerial maneuverability and momentum canceling also play a role in longer survival.

I believe Ness survives longer than Lucas horizontally for sure, I'm not too sure at all vertically though.

 

[AvariceX]

Ness is definitely heavier than Lucas by a decent amount. I have no idea who has the faster fall speed, but other factors like horizontal aerial maneuverability and momentum canceling also play a role in longer survival.

I believe Ness survives longer than Lucas horizontally for sure, I'm not too sure at all vertically though.

The horizontal weight difference between Ness and Lucas is really small actually. Iirc it was something like
-Ness 0.96
-Pit 0.95
-Lucas 0.94

or something really close to that anyway.

Vertically Lucas is heavier but I'm not sure by how much. Ness' nair and bair are both faster than anything Lucas has for momentum canceling though.

 

[Uffe]

aren't lucas and ness the same weight? what's more, doesn't lucas fall faster? doesn't it therefore follow that lucas dies off the top later, and with a longer PKT2 that he doesn't need to die off the side before ness?

Think of it like Fox. He falls quick, but Ness' b-throw can kill him around 75% by the edge on Battlefield because he's light. Or you can look at Samus being heavy but falling light.

 

[Dajayman]

There are a ton of factors in survival which I sadly know since I am a nerd at Smash Bros. All I know is that my Ness ends up living past 130% due to my awesome DI and momentum canceling.

 

[Uffe]

Momentum canceling? Ness can do that? How?

 

[AvariceX]

Momentum canceling? Ness can do that? How?

The same way every character does it. When you get knocked back use a fast aerial (nair/bair) then fast-fall. It's not total momentum canceling like G&W bucket or Wario's bike - but it's a pretty standard aspect of survival DI. I get the feeling though that you already knew this and misinterpreted something.

 

[NintenJoe]

Momentum Cancel:

Fastest Aerial (Bair)
Fast Fall
Jump

 

[Cacti]

I think that uair might be faster, and jumping might not be good for Ness as he needs to save it to not get gimped.

 

[FireKirby7]

Nah, both bair and uair end at frame 54 IIRC, Nair is best, it ends at frame 39. Just mash A after you get hit, and do the momentum cancel process:

Nair
Fastfall (Dair?)
Recover

I don't like the idea of double jumping for momentum cancelling, saving your DJ is very important for recovering with Ness. But, if it helps you live longer, I say go for it! But really... does DJing for momentum cancelling really help you live longer?
I like fastfalling by smashing the cstick and control stick down, I remember reading somewhere on the Ness boards that Ness's dair has that type of momentum cancelling properties, kinda like ROB's bair. Not exactly as much, obviously. Using this I usually survive to 150%. Take THAT, stupid people who think Ness is lightweight!

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I've hit 180%+ more than once.

 

[NintenJoe]

True momentum cancelling requires a double jump, but considering Ness' recovery he should probably:

Nair->Fast Fall->Dair Immediately->Recover

 

[prOAPC]

lucas can
fair+fast fall+waze zap+magnet pull
also, dair gives him downward momentum, so it is used to survive vertically
lucas wins

 

[Dajayman]

I don't recommend nair, since it requires no directional input so you won't cancel your momentum as fast since you aren't going towards the stage.

Bair is probably the best aerial to use for momentum canceling, it works fine for me and I live past 150% a lot. Save your dj unless you absolutely NEED to use it to survive.

 

[xoxokev]

lucas can
fair+fast fall+waze zap+magnet pull
also, dair gives him downward momentum, so it is used to survive vertically
lucas wins

is lucas' fair his quickest ending aerial? i always thought it was his nair for some reason

I don't recommend nair, since it requires no directional input so you won't cancel your momentum as fast since you aren't going towards the stage.

Bair is probably the best aerial to use for momentum canceling, it works fine for me and I live past 150% a lot. Save your dj unless you absolutely NEED to use it to survive.

nair IS ness' best aerial to use for surviving. when being hit off the stage, bair's directional input is actually away from the stage, i don't see what you're getting at here. the best thing to do when you're being hit off stage with a very high percent is to DI correctly (meaning you hold the control stick in the direction perpendicular to your trajectory before you get hit), use your character's quickest ending aerial (for ness that is his nair), and fastfall. additionally, you may use your double jump if you feel it is necessary... unless you're mr g&w/dk/yoshi, in which case you can cancel momentum more effectively using specials

 

[Uffe]

The same way every character does it. When you get knocked back use a fast aerial (nair/bair) then fast-fall. It's not total momentum canceling like G&W bucket or Wario's bike - but it's a pretty standard aspect of survival DI. I get the feeling though that you already knew this and misinterpreted something.

Actually I usually use good old DI and fair. But I'll keep this in mind. I also never knew that Wario's Bike did that and I use Wario! Thanks! So the C-stick also work or do I have to put in a quick analog and button input? And if I use bair, should I be facing the stage or no? Because I'd think bair would pull you back. O__o Also, I have used dair at some points when knocked out expecting it to do something. I guess it really does help.

 

[NintenJoe]

And if I use bair, should I be facing the stage or no? Because I'd think bair would pull you back. O__o Also, I have used dair at some points when knocked out expecting it to do something. I guess it really does help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

 

[Dajayman]

is lucas' fair his quickest ending aerial? i always thought it was his nair for some reason



nair IS ness' best aerial to use for surviving. when being hit off the stage, bair's directional input is actually away from the stage, i don't see what you're getting at here. the best thing to do when you're being hit off stage with a very high percent is to DI correctly (meaning you hold the control stick in the direction perpendicular to your trajectory before you get hit), use your character's quickest ending aerial (for ness that is his nair), and fastfall. additionally, you may use your double jump if you feel it is necessary... unless you're mr g&w/dk/yoshi, in which case you can cancel momentum more effectively using specials

I use bair with the cstick and DI with the control stick.

 

[prOAPC]

here are some vids vs the Ness i'm teaming up this friday
APC (Lucas) vs APN (Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vi5YIcE8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_AQzXyW5HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3Yivr3MmM

he's bad and at some points he looks worse because he's fighting vs me i didn't take those fights seriously, i always do that before a tournament that gives him some confidence for his new character, if he fails at the tourney, then i have to **** him next time we play and then he changes his secondary lol (don't tell him i do that XD)
i fail at gimping Ness but he dies anyway

 

[Delta-cod]

additionally, you may use your double jump if you feel it is necessary... unless you're mr g&w/dk/yoshi, in which case you can cancel momentum more effectively using specials

Um, as a Yoshi main, I can say that specials do not help cancel momentum. Egg Roll will drop you like a rock, and so will Yoshi Bomb. Egg Toss is affected by your momentum, meaning if you're going away from the stage and egg toss, you keep going away unless you wave bounce the egg. DJ is nearly always the better option because it gives you tons of height anyways and lets you change your momentum very well. The height combined with Yoshi's air speed will let you make it back to stage.

 

[Uffe]

here are some vids vs the Ness i'm teaming up this friday
APC (Lucas) vs APN (Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vi5YIcE8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_AQzXyW5HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3Yivr3MmM

he's bad and at some points he looks worse because he's fighting vs me i didn't take those fights seriously, i always do that before a tournament that gives him some confidence for his new character, if he fails at the tourney, then i have to **** him next time we play and then he changes his secondary lol (don't tell him i do that XD)
i fail at gimping Ness but he dies anyway

**** Ness! Dayum, boy! XD Nah, he's good. I think he should limit his grab game, though. On Lylat Cruise he made it obvious after awhile which he than kept getting punished. Same with his f-smash. Great Lucas as usual, as well as that Ness. Very impressed.

 

[CarVac]

First 20 seconds of impression: He rolls too much. His movement in the air is pretty good, but he's predictable on the ground it seems, like when he rolled into your fsmash right after you spawned.
The 3rd game, at Lylat, he really should have used the air more. Ness should use the ground mostly to jump off of.

 

[vato_break]

Ness pk thunder 2 beats fludd!

jk

 

[Cacti]

Oh no, the Marios are coming... This is the first, but he'll soon lead to more!

They come in swarms, I tells ya!

 

[§leepy God]

♪ One thing I can't stand is to fight Mario with Ness. It's not the FLUDD that get's me it's that stupid cape, and he's not C tier because? >.> †

 

[Uffe]

Mario is cool, but Vato is cooler.