Ness

[Diddy Kong]

Seriously, give Ness PK Teleport as Up B. How? Make PK Teleport the first chargable recovery. Use it onstage, and Ness starts running, but he stays on the spot. After about, 5 seconds, PK Teleport becomes a very strong recovery move. On par with Ike's full charged Quick Draw. It could also have offensive abilities, and you should be able to cancel it into Ness' Smash attacks I feel.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Nintendo must not remove PK Thunder as Ness' UpB and hitting himself with it to recover must also not be removed; I forbid it.

I will allow them to give him additional recovery options, but I have decreed that the mechanics of his current recovery must stay.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd like it if it became PK Teleport instead PERSONALLY.

 

[Bowserlick]

PK Thunder is one of the most creative and flavorful moves ever: KEEP! Most of Ness's special moves are very unique. The B can be replaced. A slower, chargeable Din's Fire. Eh. Underwhelming.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At the very least make his PK Thunder like Lucas's... :/

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

At the very least make his PK Thunder like Lucas's... :/

Why?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why?

It's kinda easy to gimp Ness this way. Like, everyone with good enough jumps can easily gimp Ness trying to recover.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Why not just make it so he doesnt go into freefall unless he hits himself. If someone eats/breaks his pk thunder he can just do it again.

PK Thunder is one of the most creative and flavorful moves ever: KEEP! Most of Ness's special moves are very unique. The B can be replaced. A slower, chargeable Din's Fire. Eh. Underwhelming.

I think PK Flash is nice, but could do its job better than it does. Perhaps a tweaking of the risk:reward ratio. Right now, the risk is far greater than the reward. I am willing to bet that PK Flash's intended "prime-time" is 4-player free-for-all matches.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That could work. Then again, he'd still be somewhat easy to gimp cause Ness would still fall after his PK Thunder has been intercepted. But if they'd do this, it'd be at least a little better.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

That could work. Then again, he'd still be somewhat easy to gimp cause Ness would still fall after his PK Thunder has been intercepted. But if they'd do this, it'd be at least a little better.

Yes, but we dont want to remove the ability to edgeguard him all together. Even Lucas's can be broken with attacks/projectiles.

The difficulty of balancing PK Thunder comes in making it a decent off-stage recovery move while keeping it form being an overpowered on-stage attack move. Some ideas I've had for this are, like I said above, allowing him to use pk thunder again as long as he hasnt gone into PK Thunder 2. Another option to improve his recovery is to simply allow him to use PK Thunder 2 BEFORE he uses his midair jump. This would allow him to upB recover from a much safer distance(if he so chooses to) and then use his double jump after(instead of before) to finish his recovery. He would still, of course, be only able to upB recover once unless he lands or gets hit.

 

[nessokman]

I'm worried if ness doesn't make it back.....

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm worried if ness doesn't make it back.....

Why exactly? :/

(Please don't tell me it's because of the Villager)

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm worried if ness doesn't make it back.....

A 3-time veteran won't be cut.

ness will be ok man.

 

[nessokman]

A 3-time veteran won't be but.

ness will be ok man.

i see what you freaking did there...... idk though, veteran from an "obscure series" as most say, nobody but EB fans would give it a second thought if ness was removed

 

[LaniusShrike]

i see what you freaking did there...... idk though, veteran from an "obscure series" as most say, nobody but EB fans would give it a second thought if ness was removed

And, y'know, Smash Bros. fans.

Nobody wants their liked characters removed. Period. There's a reason that Roy's return is so heavily requested even though his game wasn't even out when Melee was released... can't get much more "obscure" than that.

Gameplay-wise, some people prefer playing Ness, some people prefer playing Lucas. They're different enough that people wouldn't want to see only one of them remaining.

 

[nessokman]

And, y'know, Smash Bros. fans.

Nobody wants their liked characters removed. Period. There's a reason that Roy's return is so heavily requested even though his game wasn't even out when Melee was released... can't get much more "obscure" than that.

Gameplay-wise, some people prefer playing Ness, some people prefer playing Lucas. They're different enough that people wouldn't want to see only one of them remaining.

obscure meaning not many know of it.when roy was removed, his game was out and of course doing pretty well. FE is a pretty well known series, but considering earthbound was released in 1995, and not rereleased (Up until vc eb later this year) as well as it's sequel mother 3 being japanese only.

Earthbound characters won't be missed, only those who know the series or main them will care at all, others won't give a danm

 

[grizby2]

the more I see the gameplay of smash 4, the more I feel like they didn't remove pkt and pkt2.
I really hope they make ness's recovery more manageable this time around.

 

[itsjenyoumen]

obscure meaning not many know of it.when roy was removed, his game was out and of course doing pretty well. FE is a pretty well known series, but considering earthbound was released in 1995, and not rereleased (Up until vc eb later this year) as well as it's sequel mother 3 being japanese only.

Earthbound characters won't be missed, only those who know the series or main them will care at all, others won't give a danm

Could say that about a lot of Nintendo Franchises so no.
Besides with the upcoming return of Earthbound to Wii U Eshop it would be pretty stupid to cut Ness.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Worried about Ness in Smash 4. I realize though that Mega Man looks like a toddler....probably no older than 3 years. It then occurred to me that his final smash could very well be that he drops all of his machinery and ages a year turning into Ness(a 4-year-old).

Yeah....all of that is 100% accurate.

 

[nessokman]

Worried about Ness in Smash 4. I realize though that Mega Man looks like a toddler....probably no older than 3 years. It then occurred to me that his final smash could very well be that he drops all of his machinery and ages a year turning into Ness(a 4-year-old).

Yeah....all of that is 100% accurate.

ness is 12-14 years old, your argument is invalid

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Yeah....all of that is 100% accurate.

ness is 12-14 years old, your argument is invalid

I see a contradiction here.

Besides, we all know that Ness eventually gets wrapped up in inter-stellar drug trafficking where joins a muy thai gang and his psychic powers become partially suppressed. Years later he gets fed up with the crooked life of running from authorities and decides to use his new skills in driving and muy thai to become a racecar driver by day and crime fighter by night. Things started out rough, but now, 15 years into it, Ness aka Captain Falcon has had a very interesting and eventful life not to mention achieving time travel.

 

[grizby2]

ness himself doesn't time travel, he used a machine for that.
and mega man isn't a toddler but hes probably 3 years old anyway because hes ..*gasp* A ROBOT.

speaking of robots... ROBOT NESS FOR SSB4 ALT COSTUME~~~

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

ness himself doesn't time travel, he used a machine for that.
and mega man isn't a toddler but hes probably 3 years old anyway because hes ..*gasp* A ROBOT.

speaking of robots... ROBOT NESS FOR SSB4 ALT COSTUME~~~

Ness' time travel achievement is implied by the fact that Ness and Captain Falcon are in the game at the same time.

 

[grizby2]

so that explains all the red blue and yellow.....

 

[Eagleye893]

So if PK Fire is garbage like in brawl, I might actually be angry. Here's what I'd love if they bring him back:

PK Fire isn't super easy to DI. Make the pillar a bit more impactful.
Remove PK Flash and replace it with something better. The move was way too niche and never offered much actual use.
PKT should be about the same, except include the melee mechanic where the bolt continues to travel if ness is hit out.
PSI Magnet should be cancel-able at any time after absorption starts, like falco/fox with shine in melee.
dtilt should have a bit more range.

Most of the problems with him currently involve brawl's short hitstun/lag/whatever it's called; he's JUST short of being able to combo anything reasonably, so he needs to read rather than commit, only hit once, and that's basically all he does.

 

[grizby2]

So if PK Fire is garbage like in brawl, I might actually be angry. Here's what I'd love if they bring him back:

PK Fire isn't super easy to DI. Make the pillar a bit more impactful....

I always thought that an inescapable pk fire would could a major uproar, but I know what you mean.

for all we know, maybe they'll make his moves more traditional, despite him not actualy having some in Earthbound.

for example,
PSI fire was never a "multiple hit" type of move. in fact , it was ment to hit a ROW of enemies, not Columns.
however i'd miss making people burn continuously in the same place~

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

For PK Fire I think it would nifty if:
1) You could choose to set the fire off early instead of when it hits someone.
OR
2) It sets off always at on hit with anything(A wall, a floor, a shield).

PKT should be about the same, except include the melee mechanic where the bolt continues to travel if ness is hit out.

Funny thing about that is it is only in Melee v1.0. It was restricted in Melee v1.1 and removed entirely from Melee 1.2(Greatest Hits).

I would like it if PK Thunder was like it is in Melee in the respect that enemies cant attack it and destroy it(like they can in Brawl).

 

[rpgfighter]

His new Up-B should just be PSI teleport. Similar to M2's

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

His new Up-B should just be PSI teleport. Similar to M2's

I already said this is against the law. His upB must remain PK Thunder.

 

[rpgfighter]

Forgive me ;__;

Well hm, just make it like Lucas'? Is Lucas' good or is that still bad? Haven't played Brawl in ages sorry

 

[Uffe]

The recovery of PK Thunder should have two things to it.

1. When using PK Thunder in the air, it can be used more than once as if standing on the ground.

2. Being able to cancel PK Thunder while on the ground by pressing R, just like Snake's Nikita.

That way even a stupid mistake won't cost you your life, and that way nobody can just come running at you as your PK Thunder misses.

 

[Uffe]

I can't believe how many people are calling for a new recovery move. PK Thunder really isn't that difficult, folks.

Of course not. It's just easy to get gimped.

 

[grizby2]

Of course not. It's just easy to get gimped.

pretty much this.

what if pkt1 controlabillity could be toggled? like.. maybe by default it arcs perfectly under you for normal recovery, but if you hold B down, you can control it like usual?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I think it should not be like Lucas'. I think it should simply not put Ness into freefall unless he hits himself with it. I think it should be a "laser" like in Melee. I think it should have less ending lag. Yes its strong, but it doesnt need tons of startup lag AND tons of cooldown lag.....it just needs one of them and lowering the startup lag means making the projectile move faster....which is dangerous.....very dangerous, so.....less cooldown lag it is^_^

2. Being able to cancel PK Thunder while on the ground by pressing R, just like Snake's Nikita.

This would be nice too.

 

[Ness 682]

Just make Ness a character that has as much as a chance of winning like every other character! :D If that's the case, then I have NO PROBLEMS with this next SSB installment (in other words, just have every character be an even match up).

The chances of this happening? Very small, seeing as they won't update the game and it's rules once their actual release is out. Oh well.

If it can't be even: MAKE NESS THE BEST!@!@@!@!@!@!@@!

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Just make Ness a character that has as much as a chance of winning like every other character! :D If that's the case, then I have NO PROBLEMS with this next SSB installment (in other words, just have every character be an even match up).

The chances of this happening? Very small, seeing as they won't update the game and it's rules once their actual release is out. Oh well.

If it can't be even: MAKE NESS THE BEST!@!@@!@!@!@!@@!

I think that's something we would all say we want, but we are trying to give more specific examples of how we think this should be done(with how we want certain moves changed). It is quite a lofty goal though. No game designer has ever made a competitive game with a 100% equal chance of winning given to all players. Even dittos in smash have slight differences based on things like spawn location. In Go and Chess one side always has to be the first to make a move. Even in Rock-Paper-Scissors the motions made with the hand to form each of the outcomes makes some of them less preferable a higher levels of play.

 

[Uffe]

Worried about Ness in Smash 4. I realize though that Mega Man looks like a toddler....probably no older than 3 years. It then occurred to me that his final smash could very well be that he drops all of his machinery and ages a year turning into Ness(a 4-year-old).

Yeah....all of that is 100% accurate.

One of the funniest comments in here. It sure would give me more of a reason to main Mega Man. Still going to use Ness regardless of what cool new characters may come out.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Sup, just wondering if anyone else noticed some problems with Ness in Brawl, or if it's all in my head.
For instance his Neutral B, PK Flash, doesn't go off just before it hits the ground and cancels like I think it did in Melee, so the only way to release the full powered explosion was to do it from a location that is higher than the ground, this just bugged me a bit, I didnt like having to make a weaker flash by releasing B too early when they should have shortened the PK Flash fuse by a second so it would go off just before hitting the ground.

Another thing that bugs me is his down smash. I've had this problem since Ness on Melee. Sometimes when I try to charge it, Ness releases it before I let go of A, is this because it doesn't work on certain slopes or slanted surfaces?

As for improvements for Ness I'd like to see his PK Lightning control like it does in Project M.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Sup, just wondering if anyone else noticed some problems with Ness in Brawl, or if it's all in my head.
For instance his Neutral B, PK Flash, doesn't go off just before it hits the ground and cancels like I think it did in Melee, so the only way to release the full powered explosion was to do it from a location that is higher than the ground, this just bugged me a bit, I didnt like having to make a weaker flash by releasing B too early when they should have shortened the PK Flash fuse by a second so it would go off just before hitting the ground.

Another thing that bugs me is his down smash. I've had this problem since Ness on Melee. Sometimes when I try to charge it, Ness releases it before I let go of A, is this because it doesn't work on certain slopes or slanted surfaces?

As for improvements for Ness I'd like to see his PK Lightning control like it does in Project M.

Regarding PK Flash: What you describe is not really a problem. When Ness uses PK Flash as soon as the Flash starts moving downwards in the air it is at full power/size(full charged). The only reason you keep charging it is to change where you are aiming it. As long as you release it after it starts dropping it is fully charged.

Regarding downsmash: Yes, certain terrains will prevent you from charging.

 

[Kokomaniac]

PK Thunder needs more range, and should be more like Lucas's not in that it doesn't really KO, but the head is fast and goes through things instead of being stopped. It's one of ness's signature moves and vital to his kit IMO, so it needs to be strong and have lots of uses.

PK Flash needs to go farther faster. I've found decent uses for it and have KO'd with many times, wouldnt mind having it replaced though.

PSI magnet needs to act maybe more like a shine as well? Maybe would be too good then

PK Fire needs slightly less end lag

His aerials need more range, especially his fair and bair. His fair needs to do a lot more shield damage.

His grab range needs to be increased by a decent margin

Usmash MUST be made more reliable and less laggy overall. I do like how it has initial hit boxes that hit upwards though.