Ness

[Robert of Normandy]

More FE games are being made though.

Itoi said he isn't making any more Mother games.

Yes. This is whtat I meant. He has been asked directly, and has said he has no plans for a Mother 4.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, you never know. Sakurai never had plans to make another Smash after 64, and he explicitly stated that both Melee and Brawl would be the last games of the series. Look at how wrong he was!

 

[Mr. Anon]

I agree with hypnosis as a down b to replace magnet. It would function similar to Mewtwo's Disable, except it would put opponents to sleep. B-up I agree should be PSI Teleport, while his final smash should be PSI Rockin.

 

[bubbaking]

Hypnosis should have a little more range than Mewtwo's Disable, though... In return, it wouldn't affect aerial opponents.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Well, you never know. Sakurai never had plans to make another Smash after 64, and he explicitly stated that both Melee and Brawl would be the last games of the series. Look at how wrong he was!

That's Sakurai though, Itoi is different...

The only thing I can see is if Itoi finds it to make another one if he see's the Mother 4 fangame, which looks AMAZING, and the music is great.

Been working on it for 4 years and they've almost got it done.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's Sakurai though, Itoi is different...

The only thing I can see is if Itoi finds it to make another one if he see's the Mother 4 fangame, which looks AMAZING, and the music is great.

Been working on it for 4 years and they've almost got it done.

True that. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[yoshi8984]

No actually PSI Magnet was a good idea, just needs to be quicker and perhaps more push from the windbox.

Also PSI Hypnosis would probably be as useless and Jiggs' Sing LOL

 

[pidgezero_one]

personally i cannot imagine smash 4 being balanced whatsoever if ness is in it. just how much will he have to be buffed!?!?!?!?!

 

[Sunnysunny]

Its definitely doable.

Give him a better recovery
Fix his terrible grab release
Make his Aerial PK fire safe on block like lucas's but keep the diffrent angle
Make PK cross more manuerable
and maybe give him a more reliable kill move

I think that will fix him up nicely.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Its definitely doable.

Give him a better recovery
Fix his terrible grab release
Make his Aerial PK fire safe on block like lucas's but keep the diffrent angle
Make PK cross more manuerable
and maybe give him a more reliable kill move

I think that will fix him up nicely.

Give him PM-style DJC's too.

 

[bubbaking]

Just make him a new character and he's set. He doesn't have to be like he was in 64, Melee, or Brawl. This is their chance to fix him and make things right. He needs totally new specials and he probably needs to fit another kind of playstyle then a mostly defensive one too.

They took the spacees and made them less similar to each other and they did the same for all the other clones from 64 and Melee. Perhaps it's time to do that for Lucas and Ness as well.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Just make him a new character and he's set. He doesn't have to be like he was in 64, Melee, or Brawl. This is their chance to fix him and make things right. He needs totally new specials and he probably needs to fit another kind of playstyle then a mostly defensive one too.

They took the spacees and made them less similar to each other and they did the same for all the other clones from 64 and Melee. Perhaps it's time to do that for Lucas and Ness as well.

Even if ther fix his specials, that doesn't mean his normals have to change. Even if he was more of a medic/support type character in terms of PSI, he was always pretty much a physical powerhouse.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

It's PK Flash lol, and I'd love to see them get some new moves, I just want the grab release gone mostly.

 

[Bowserlick]

I understand why people want Ness to have specials that he performed in his game. However, I think Ness does fine as a representative for the series. And his specials seem really unique. I would argue the most creative Up B in the game. His regular moves are a bit stale, but his specials and unique jump make him stand out. I would, personally, scrap Lucas and make Ness the sole representative from the series. The characters in the next game are suppose to have new moves, so that is an opportunity to incorporate powers that Ness had in his original game.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I would, personally, scrap Lucas and make Ness the sole representative from the series. The characters in the next game are suppose to have new moves, so that is an opportunity to incorporate powers that Ness had in his original game.

I wouldn't. I think Lucas can be de-cloned easily from Ness, because the two actually have a number of unique PSI powers that they don't share. Lucas can be made unique if they make his specials revovle around status buffs(PK Offense/Defense Up) and other things.

 

[yoshi8984]

and maybe give him a more reliable kill move

I think Ness is already a reliable killer, he's got: B-Throw, B-Air, U-Air, PKT2, F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Tilt and PK Flash. Of course some are more reliable than others, but (as I already said) he's still a reliable killer. =P

By making aerial PKF safe on block, do you mean less lag? Maybe it could also activate if it hits a shield and do same decent shield damage XD
(Speaking of shield damage, I'd love it if F-Air and some of his other moves could do some decent shield damage like in Balanced Brawl )

The other changes I'd agree with. And bigger hitboxes.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Ahhh sorry. Ness is one of the few characters I don't know much about. I totally forgot about how godlike his b-throw is.

By less punishable I mean yea, definitly less end lag. Its so atrociously long. I think he should atleast have enough time to like, fall down with a n-air or f-air after tossing one so its atleast semisafe.

I thought about letting it activate on shield too, but, I think that could lead to some really dirty stuff like unavoidable grab set ups.

But yea, PK fire seriously needs a buff.

 

[yoshi8984]

Oh yeah right I didn't think about that, and I could actually see that causing an infinite lol

Also (I know I said this several times) but if Ness could levitate like Peach's Float or something (he did it in SSE ) that would make his aerial game even better XD

 

[Ember Reaper]

Ness is just overall a great character. I'd like to see more of his physical side, but that'd mess with the moveset I've come to enjoy so very much. It's a conundrum...

 

[bubbaking]

I think Ness is already a reliable killer, he's got: B-Throw, B-Air, U-Air, PKT2, F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Tilt and PK Flash. Of course some are more reliable than others, but (as I already said) he's still a reliable killer. =P

Uhh, I don't think dsmash and utilt were that good at killing. In all honesty, I think his nair was probably better at that than those two moves. Also, don't forget about his dair meteor for gimping.

I thought about letting it activate on shield too, but, I think that could lead to some really dirty stuff like unavoidable grab set ups.

But yea, PK fire seriously needs a buff.

Tbh, letting PK Fire activate on shield actually isn't that OP. That's what his PK Fire does in P:M and Ness is still seen as a bad char in that mod. It's still shield DI-able, I believe. Besides, even if it was an "unavoidable grab set up", that's your punishment for letting PK Fire hit. He screams out "PK Fire!" beforehand, so you have plenty of time to dodge or otherwise avoid the attack. IMO, reliable set-ups like this is just what Ness needs.

 

[yoshi8984]

Oh yeah right I forgot about N-Air.

Also D-Smash and U-Tilt were decent killers imo.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Ness needs to be more like his SSB64 counterpart in this installment, PK Thunder and Dair were ****.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, IMO, dsmash and utilt weren't that strong, but usmash was kinda strong (a mix of the two, perhaps? )

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Well, IMO, dsmash and utilt weren't that strong, but usmash was kinda strong (a mix of the two, perhaps? )

I disagree. I find "Walk the Dog(downward smash)" much useful than "Around the World(upward smash)"

And Home Run Swing DOES need to be buffed.

 

[grizby2]

I disagree. I find "Walk the Dog(downward smash)" much useful than "Around the World(upward smash)"

And Home Run Swing DOES need to be buffed.

i think both the u-smash and d-smash need to lose the seperate spin-up and release hits. if it were just one hit, it would be lovely, other than that i find them useful too.

i dont think the home run swing needs to be buffed though... well lucas's stick did always have more knock back for some reason...
i suppose knockback increase is in order, other than that, i think that would make up for its start-up time. lets not forget its reflecting capabillities.
those kills are SO AMAZING!!!!

 

[NessOnett]

I feel like I need to weigh in on this thread. Being, well...Ness.jk

I am personally appalled at the suggestions to change anything about his kit. He has stayed in (largely) the same form for three games, and to remake him from scratch now would just be an insult to all the players who love him. Myself included. His ^B is unique and half the reason many people like him, to turn it into a generic teleport would just be depressing and ruin him.

Which brings me back to previous games. In 64, he was a total baller. Best spiking power(arguably) in the game, great recovery, boss throws, he pretty much had everything going for him. In melee he had his DJC, "broken" yoyo tricks, and still some pretty nice throws. But basically, all that he used to have feels like it's been stripped away slowly, and we should look back to what he used to dominate with for direction on how to "fix" him.

Personally, I would LOVE if he got his DJC back. That would make the game for me. Even if he was unique in that he was the only one who got it. Might add something to the character, since he was always known for his DJC, and Sakurai said he wanted to focus on gameplay and making characters more unique and differentiated. Thats my thought at least.

I doubt he'd get back his yoyo box shenanigans from melee, because it might confuse new players who don't know about it, but it might be a good hidden thing for the competitive scene.

I can see grab range increase, and other numbers tweaks. Those just come with the game being rebalanced from scratch, like brawl was from melee.

 

[yoshi8984]

IMO if they keep Ness' PKT as his recovery, it should
1: No longer leave him helpless if he fails to hit himself like in Brawl Minus
2: Not have its distance reduced if PKT2 hits something
3: Give Ness the ability to wall jump so he's not screwed over if he falls into a pit in between 2 walls
4: (Maybe) give Ness 1 or 2 more mid-air jumps? XD

 

[bubbaking]

I am personally appalled at the suggestions to change anything about his kit. He has stayed in (largely) the same form for three games, and to remake him from scratch now would just be an insult to all the players who love him. Myself included. His ^B is unique and half the reason many people like him, to turn it into a generic teleport would just be depressing and ruin him.

Ness has also SUCKED for three games straight with his best showing actually occurring in Brawl. He was bottom of Low Tier in SSB 64, Bottom Tier in Melee, and near the bottom of Mid Tier in Brawl. He needs a re-done kit. Not only that, Ness is way too much of a Lucas clone now (or vice versa, whatever). Ness's upB IS unique but it's mostly uniquely bad. A teleport isn't generic at all, especially if it's his PSI teleport from his games that has him running in place first.

Which brings me back to previous games. In 64, he was a total baller. Best spiking power(arguably) in the game, great recovery, boss throws, he pretty much had everything going for him. In melee he had his DJC, "broken" yoyo tricks, and still some pretty nice throws. But basically, all that he used to have feels like it's been stripped away slowly, and we should look back to what he used to dominate with for direction on how to "fix" him.

Everyone was usable in 64 because there was no proper DI and hitstun was crazily long. EVERYONE had "boss throws." His recovery wasn't great at all when compared to the whole cast. One could still kill him the way he's often killed in Melee and Brawl (run into PKT, attack PKT, or just hit PKT2). Even barring all that, his recovery wasn't spectacular when compared to Pika's, Kirby's, and Puff's. Melee gave Ness nice tools, but his recovery in particular just held him back from being anything great. If we want Ness to be a good character, then he needs a NEW recovery.

 

[3Bismyname]

i never thought Ness sucked by any means. in 64 he was like my second favorite to use and later he was just alright. tier arguments are really stupid. like seriously stupid. of course some characters are considered better than others. thats every single fighting game. like Bowsers really close to the lowest tier but he's still one of my mains. tiers are dumb

only reason i say he should get redone a little is cause him and Lucas are to similar right now. not because of any tier lists.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If we want Ness to be a good character, then he needs a NEW recovery.

Project M begs to differ. As do most Brawl mods, where Ness's weird recovery is kept intact.

 

[bubbaking]

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4068.html
You'll notice that most people are putting Ness into Low Tier and one of the main arguments is his recovery. In fact, that first post above is really out-of-date. Lately, people have been putting him into bottom three worst characters in P:M. Here's the most recent aggregate list:
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4068-post-95545.html#pid95545

There's no doubt that the best version of Ness is currently in either P:M or Brawl-, but his recovery is still holding him back in P:M. In Minus, his recovery is radically different since he gets to PKT more than once if it hit something or PKT2 hit a wall.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4068.html
You'll notice that most people are putting Ness into Low Tier and one of the main arguments is his recovery. In fact, that first post above is really out-of-date. Lately, people have been putting him into bottom three worst characters in P:M. Here's the most recent aggregate list:
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4068-post-95545.html#pid95545.

However, most people I;ve heard are saying that being "bottom tier" in P:M is more akin to being mid-tier in Melee, so it's not like he isn't viable at all.

That Brawl- thing might be an interesting idea.

 

[NessOnett]

Ness has also SUCKED for three games straight with his best showing actually occurring in Brawl. He was bottom of Low Tier in SSB 64, Bottom Tier in Melee, and near the bottom of Mid Tier in Brawl. He needs a re-done kit. Not only that, Ness is way too much of a Lucas clone now (or vice versa, whatever). Ness's upB IS unique but it's mostly uniquely bad. A teleport isn't generic at all, especially if it's his PSI teleport from his games that has him running in place first.

I feel like...you never actually played the game, or followed the competitive scene.

Ness was in S tier for SSB64, along with Kirby. And was there for pretty much the whole life of the game.(He has dropped very recently due mostly to the fact that most Ness players finally moved on to more modern games).

And his recovery in that game was roughly 2-3 times the distance of everyone else's.(and the maps had a lot of deadspace on the sides for him to utilize). And his throws were still far better than everyone else's, even by that game's standards. As well as having some of the best jumps. And, ofc, strong DJCs.

In melee, yes, overall he was "bad." But he had tools that made him "better" if you were good with him. If you knew how to drop boxes with yoyo, one-shot people with your magnet, edge-drop his yoyo(EU only), and of course his double-jump cancel. This gave him some strong points that could be recreated to add power to him while remaining true to who he is.

But being "bad" on a tier list is pretty meaningless. Since the tier list merely shows how "easy" it is to do well with that character. In melee at least, where characters had a lot of depth. People like Simna proved that he could take out top rated Fox and Marth players with Ness by being a total baller and mastering everything Ness had to offer. Which was a lot of **** most casual players didn't know about or take the time to learn. Just like Taj with Mewtwo. The point is he had the tools if you wanted to use them.

But in brawl he got stripped of all these things. Because Sakurai wanted to make the game "more casual friendly," he didnt want a competitive game. So pretty much everyone got dumbed down a lot. And in line with that, he wouldn't redesign a character because it wasn't "competitively viable" regardless of what the community thinks.

As far as being a "Lucas clone"(as ludicrous as that is), the odds are highly against Lucas making a return if you've followed the news from Sakurai. And even if he does, he should be the one in need of a remake. Not that clones are a new thing in the series...

And a straight directional move that may or may not do fire damage...being unique. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Mewtwo, or Fox, or Falco, or Wolf, Lucario, Pikachu, Pichu, Shiek, Zelda...I can go on. As far as Ness' cannon teleport, requires him to be on the ground and is for traveling between towns...was not a combat functioning skill. And it would make no sense if he just stopped falling and started running through the air with no traction.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not here to get in the middle of this, but WHERE exactly did you jump to the conclusion that Lucas has low odds of returning? Literally nothing that Sakurai has said thus far can attribute to that.

 

[bubbaking]

I feel like...you never actually played the game, or followed the competitive scene.

Lolz, I've played competitively in just about every Smash there is.

Ness was in S tier for SSB64, along with Kirby. And was there for pretty much the whole life of the game.(He has dropped very recently due mostly to the fact that most Ness players finally moved on to more modern games).

Ness was S Tier because people didn't realize that he sucked. His placement on an out-dated tier list does not prove anything. His most current placement is what matters. Just because it took people a long time to realize that he wasn't that good does not mean that he was never bad, even when he was high on the tier list. It just goes to show that people were overrating him back then, which I feel you are doing right now.

And his recovery in that game was roughly 2-3 times the distance of everyone else's.(and the maps had a lot of deadspace on the sides for him to utilize). And his throws were still far better than everyone else's, even by that game's standards. As well as having some of the best jumps. And, ofc, strong DJCs.

A recovery isn't just gauged in distance. It is also gauged by versatility and safety. Pika, Kirby, and Jiggs could recover about the same distance while also maintaining a lot of flexibility in how they recovered and being able to fight back (or just 'invincible' through anything at a moment's notice in Pika's case). Ness was forced to recover in a straight line with PKT2 and anything could hit him out of it.

In melee, yes, overall he was "bad." But he had tools that made him "better" if you were good with him. If you knew how to drop boxes with yoyo, one-shot people with your magnet, edge-drop his yoyo(EU only), and of course his double-jump cancel. This gave him some strong points that could be recreated to add power to him while remaining true to who he is.

"Drop boxes with yoyo?" "One-shot people with magnet?" Man, you are firing off these gimmicks as if they were competitively viable material. His DJC was his only strong gimmick. Besides, I don't think anyone here said anything about changing his standard moveset. It's his specials that we want changed. PK Flash is a ton of garbage and should be changed completely. PK Fire and PK Thunder are mediocre projectiles unless you're talking about the P:M version of PKF. PSI Magnet is unsafe as all heck and is almost never used to actually absorb anything.

But being "bad" on a tier list is pretty meaningless. Since the tier list merely shows how "easy" it is to do well with that character. In melee at least, where characters had a lot of depth. People like Simna proved that he could take out top rated Fox and Marth players with Ness by being a total baller and mastering everything Ness had to offer. Which was a lot of **** most casual players didn't know about or take the time to learn. Just like Taj with Mewtwo. The point is he had the tools if you wanted to use them.

No, a tier list does not only "show how 'easy' it is to do well" with a certain char. It also summarizes the limitations of that char. Neither Ness nor Bowser will EVER win a national. Besides, if the tier list was only based on ease of use, then Sheik would still be #1 on the Melee Tier list. She's way easier to use than Jiggs and the spacees. Man, Sinma is so out-dated. The most recent good Melee Ness is Mofo, and NO Ness has ever taken out a top-level Fox or Marth. Even Mofo has to go spacees to try to combat them. Same goes for Taj with Mewtwo. Taj has never fully taken a set off any top-level high-tiered chars at a national without going some Marth.

And a straight directional move that may or may not do fire damage...being unique. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Mewtwo, or Fox, or Falco, or Wolf, Lucario, Pikachu, Pichu, Shiek, Zelda...I can go on. As far as Ness' cannon teleport, requires him to be on the ground and is for traveling between towns...was not a combat functioning skill. And it would make no sense if he just stopped falling and started running through the air with no traction.

If you're gonna go there, then I might as well say that PKT2 is the least unique thing I've ever seen. It's basically a bad electric Firefox. Straight line trajectory with a bodily hitbox? *yawn* Boooooriiiiiiing! Whoever said PSI Teleport should do fire damage? I was thinking that the move should just cause him to disappear and reappear somewhere else without a hitbox, giving him invincibility while invisible. Who cares if PSI Teleport wasn't used for fighting in Earthbound? Ness, himself, was never much more than a support character, and he didn't possess most of the moves that he has in Smash. Having him run in place in the air would be both cool and completely in-line with Smash. How the heck do characters like Link and Falcon double jump in the air when there's no ground to kick off of?

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

It's safe to say that uniqueness doesn't win battles.

I'm guessing Ness was meant to be a complex character to control well. Guess they done that job right.

 

[NessOnett]

A bunch of lies and misinformation

Well, this basically isn't worth responding to. It's a rant of falsehoods, and an angry one at that. And I can see I'm not going to convince you how wrong you are, so it's really not worth time. I know I'm right, and so do most people reading this, as well as people who matter, like Sakurai, so what you think really has no bearing.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, back on topic. There was one redeeming quality of his post that I will address, that most seem to be skipping over. "Versatility." Ness' ^B is not just a recover, it is also an attack. Which means, in a very dumbed down sense 'his recovery should be worse because its more versatile.' It is a very potent offensive skill in many matchups, since the tracking on it is much better than enemy movement in most cases. Ignoring of course the mind games in potentially hitting yourself into them. Which again, has been shown in tournament settings to be an effective strategy(And youtube is full of citations of this), regardless of anyone saying anything different.(Just to head it off a bit before someone says "nuh uh, that doesnt work against good people")

Look at Link from the EARLY days of melee.(Does anyone remember them? Or am I just old). For the first year+, Link was top tier of the game. Why? His recovery barely moved him. Because it was an effective ATTACK(And his ^B was single-handedly the thing that made him dominate the metagame). Which made up for the fact that it was sub-par on the recovery front.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Look at Link from the EARLY days of melee.(Does anyone remember them? Or am I just old). For the first year+, Link was top tier of the game. Why? His recovery barely moved him. Because it was an effective ATTACK(And his ^B was single-handedly the thing that made him dominate the metagame). Which made up for the fact that it was sub-par on the recovery front.

But he isn't top tier anymore, because the metagame evolved. Also, tier placement isn't based soley on one of a characters' attacks.

Speaking of which, I just remembered that in P:M, Lucas tends to get placed higher on tiers than Ness despite having the same handicap. If PKT is really such a major handicap that needs to be done away with, why would someone with literally the same handicap not have the same problem?

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

But he isn't top tier anymore, because the metagame evolved. Also, tier placement isn't based soley on one of a characters' attacks.

Speaking of which, I just remembered that in P:M, Lucas tends to get placed higher on tiers than Ness despite having the same handicap. If PKT is really such a major handicap that needs to be done away with, why would someone with literally the same handicap not have the same problem?

Well, in Brawl, Lucas' PK Thunder was easier to control.

 

[bubbaking]

Blatantly ignoring Bubbaking's valid points.

Whatever...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, back on topic. There was one redeeming quality of his post that I will address, that most seem to be skipping over. "Versatility." Ness' ^B is not just a recover, it is also an attack. Which means, in a very dumbed down sense 'his recovery should be worse because its more versatile.' It is a very potent offensive skill in many matchups, since the tracking on it is much better than enemy movement in most cases. Ignoring of course the mind games in potentially hitting yourself into them. Which again, has been shown in tournament settings to be an effective strategy(And youtube is full of citations of this), regardless of anyone saying anything different.(Just to head it off a bit before someone says "nuh uh, that doesnt work against good people")

The PKT2 mindgame is mostly prevalent in SOLELY Brawl, and you just went to such great lengths to say that Brawl removed a lot of things from Ness (and Smash in general) that should have stayed. Ness's upB is also a worse attack than the upB's of a lot of characters, like Bowser, Samus, etc. If the move could combo into something, it would be different, but as of now, Ness is simply just risking damage to his body for just a bit of extra damage. The move can't edgeguard because it pops the opponent upwards. Even in P:M, the move almost combos......almost, but Ness spends too much time wagging his head after connecting the projectile to actually follow up with anything.

As an example, let's look at Samus: Her upB is arguably a much better attack than Ness's. Invincibility for the first 5 frames, a hitbox on frame 5, a nice chunk of damage, it has a lot of nice benefits. To make things even better (worse for Ness), it's also a better and more flexible recovery on a character who already has a much better recovery than Ness, even if you eliminate her Screw Attack.

Look at Link from the EARLY days of melee.(Does anyone remember them? Or am I just old). For the first year+, Link was top tier of the game. Why? His recovery barely moved him. Because it was an effective ATTACK(And his ^B was single-handedly the thing that made him dominate the metagame). Which made up for the fact that it was sub-par on the recovery front.

As I've already said, metagames evolve and develop. Link is Lower Mid tier now because people realized he doesn't have the tools it takes to keep up with the best. Nonetheless, even Link's recovery is probably better than Ness's (upB, tether, bomb jump). Link being Top Tier (which he wasn't) in the early days of Melee means absolutely nothing. All it proves is that people weren't aware of how bad he was compared to everyone else yet.

Btw, please stop spreading mis-information in your posts. I've given you a link in the paragraph above. You'll see that Link was never placed any higher than 13th on any NTSC Melee Tier list. For comparison, the last place in C (Upper Mid) Tier in the current tier list is 11th and that's pretty much the end of tournament viability. In 2004, Link was put in 6th place (High Tier, not Top Tier) but that was an April Fool's joke made by the MBR. When the real tier list came out a couple days later, Link was promptly placed back in 13th place.

But he isn't top tier anymore, because the metagame evolved. Also, tier placement isn't based soley on one of a characters' attacks.

Link was never Top Tier.

Speaking of which, I just remembered that in P:M, Lucas tends to get placed higher on tiers than Ness despite having the same handicap. If PKT is really such a major handicap that needs to be done away with, why would someone with literally the same handicap not have the same problem?

In P:M, people tend to place Lucas in High or Mid Tier and Ness in Low Tier (although I placed him in Mid Tier 'cause I believe he's better than others think). Lucas has several features that Ness doesn't which improve his recovery over Ness's:

• Lucas's PKT is much more controllable and precise, and it turns in a much tighter arc. As such, Lucas can transfer from PKT into PKT2 twice as fast as Ness can. This also gives Lucas easier access to more PKT2 angles. For Lucas, it's actually a viable option to PKT2 downwards to snap to the ledge, a feat that isn't so easy for Ness.
• Lucas's PKT goes THROUGH opponents. It is impossible to gimp Lucas simply by jumping into the head of the PKT. This alone would have made Ness's recovery actually, you know, a recovery.
• Lucas's PKT2 also travels through opponents, hitting them multiple times while at it. This prevents him from losing distance due to hitlag. However, impact is still generally safe on-hit and it can still kill (with the last hit) at high %'s.
• Lucas has access to a bunch of other features that allow him to mix up his recovery. He has a tether (with a hitbox). He has a PK Shine (PSI Magnet) with much less startup and cooldown than Ness's PSI Magnet. Like a shine, it stops his vertical momentum and is also jump-cancellable.