Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[K.K_Slider]

How to kill Captian falcon.

step 1. F throw off stage.

step 2. F air away from edge.

step 3. Edgehog his up-B.

step 4. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

step 5. ???

step 6. Profit!!!

 

[Uffe]

But it's not that simple. :/

 

[K.K_Slider]

But it's not that simple. :/

True but still it makes for good laughs.

Anyways what kind of falcon play does your friend experience? defensive, or offensive?

 

[Uffe]

His name is Eli and he's a Melee vet that played Dr. Mario. That's who my friend is going up against. Except it's Brawl and Eli's Falcon.

 

[Thunderbolt333]

force his approach with pkt and grab abuse him if he trys and stay in the air to avoid grabs fiar and bair him ness shines in the air just make sure you mix up your grabs so he can't see them coming.

 

[Uffe]

Cool! If my friend doesn't read this here, I'll send him a link to here. Thanks.

 

[K.K_Slider]

Still waiting for an answer to my jab lock to d tilts question.

 

[Eagleye893]

But it's not that simple. :/

true... i've had to play ally when he was captain falcon in low tiers.... i brought him down to one stock each game, but i couldn't beat him... hes just too good. i couldn't approach too often at all, and almost never had time to punish, because he only needed to shield grab and grab release to knee/uair me... worst way to die ever. when he was jabbing like crazy (maybe i just suck at this and can't do it), he would jab in one direction and immediately jab cancel, turn around and hit me with a jab jab grab. i seriously to this day have no clue how to fight a great falcon, but really it's more of a GTFO YOU HAVE REALLY SHORT RANGE ON NEARLY EVERYTHING EXCEPT FAIR kind of battle, where you just run around and hope to punish whenever you can... and never get jabbed/grabbed.

@kkslider: sorry, i don't know exactly, but i believe it should work either way even if you have more jabs... don't trust me on that. i might be reading your question wrong though.

 

[Uffe]

K.K., I can't fully understand what you're asking on the last page. It confuses me. Eagleye, I don't believe Captain Falcon has a grab release on Ness. I've never had that done to me before. Did he happen to grab you, down throw and then use his fair on you? Because if that's what he was doing, you can just fair him after that down throw.

 

[AvariceX]

Falcon has some grab release tricks on Ness...knee shouldn't be possible though (mash analog away from him and c-stick fairs as fast as you can if he tries this...it shouldn't work).

Ally is sandbag central by the way. It's impossible to adjust to him because he just plays at random levels of sandbagging and occasionally busts out the **** XD.

This is old...and contains a good amount of fail...but it is me vs Ally, and it is Ness vs Falcon (my Ness was not very good at all back then either)...but maybe it will be of some help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5G44lwJNiU

 

[Uffe]

He seemed to play all aerial which looks like he put quite a scare into you when you made an attempt to recover. I think in that video you did good overall. You could have won that one, too. That there shows that you're good. To be able to put up with even Ally. It's Captain Falcon, yeah, but it's slightly in your advantage so it's very well possible for Falcon to win. I think his aerial movements were throwing you off. I could be wrong.

I think a little more fair on the last stock would have helped. Especially since he was in the air with you. I fought a Falcon like this. The ones that jump around. They tend to do that to try and land The Knee, obviously. Anyway, good job.

 

[Eagleye893]

@avericex: I was doing that when he went to grab release> knee me, but for some odd reason the fair wouldn't come out and he killed me... That really only happened once though. And ally almost never used his dthrow on me and always got a ton of extra percent with an aerial. My first and second game were somewhat similar to yours excluding the ally fail at the beginning as he killed himself at 7% or so. I had him at around 70% the first game and 30 the second, both on his last stock. He seems to sandbag a lot based on what people say.

 

[AvariceX]

He once told me he never sandbags. At the next tourney I saw him at he played G&W in bracket and got sent to loser's bracket early, which really pissed off a lot of people in loser's bracket and threw off a lot of the results entirely.

 

[K.K_Slider]

Ally is sandbag central by the way. It's impossible to adjust to him because he just plays at random levels of sandbagging and occasionally busts out the **** XD.

Any advice on how to capitalize on the moments he does randomly sandbag?

And as for my last question here it is rephrased.


Do you have to only hit them three times with the jab lock for the two D-tilts to work or can you hit them as many as you want as long as it is past three hits?

 

[AvariceX]

3 or more.

If I knew how to win against Ally I would have tried it a long time ago. My advice is once you get a hit rush him down hard; be relentless. Keep him in the air, if he manages to land either back off or try something different like a grab or something.

Good luck I guess

 

[RandomLax]

To my fellow Ness players I've come for advice.
I'm potentially maining Ness (dropping G&W) and have read PK Cross about 5 times as well as various other Ness guides listed in his "useful links" thread. My questions are...
Should Ness' aerials be fastfalled consistently?
What are the most useful advanced techniques to master with Ness?
What are Ness' best options to avoid being shield grabbed?
What are your thoughts on controller configuration?
Has ledgebending been figured out, or is it still situational?

 

[Uffe]

To my fellow Ness players I've come for advice.
I'm potentially maining Ness (dropping G&W) and have read PK Cross about 5 times as well as various other Ness guides listed in his "useful links" thread. My questions are...

First off, I don't think you should drop Mr. Game & Watch. He's a good character that can get pretty far. If you're going to use Ness, at least still have Mr. Game & Watch as a secondary. You know, for those hard match ups.

Should Ness' aerials be fastfalled consistently?

Your fast falling doesn't have to be used consistently, but it probably makes things safer.

What are the most useful advanced techniques to master with Ness?

Ness has a lot of AT's, but some aren't necessary. For example, Firebound is used for offense and defense at the same time. It's an awesome technique and it also looks flashy. But it's really not necessary to use. I assure you it's a lot safer than PK Jump.

That's another thing. PK Jump is useful, but it can put you in a bad predicament. Reversing it would probably be the safest way to go with it. However, if you can manage to land it unpredictably, then you'll find it much more useful that way. Either way, it's good to use, but not as safe as Firebound.

You can also pivot your PK Fire for better spacing on the ground. But that's not all Ness has. Each character has a universal technique called the Hyphen Smash. With Tap Jump on, you can do a Reverse Hyphen Smash. Just skim through the guide and see what interests you the most.

What are Ness' best options to avoid being shield grabbed?

Retreating your aerials would be the best options. If you just dive right in, you'll most likely get grabbed or OoS by your opponent.

What are your thoughts on controller configuration?

Mine are set to default. Others have theirs set to default as well. For Firebounding or Auto-RAR, they have their C-stick set from "Smash" to "Special". For RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush), which is another universal technique, you can do it with or without the C-stick being changed. I prefer without the B-stick method. Some Ness mains have their Tap Jump set to off while very few have theirs totally different.

Has ledgebending been figured out, or is it still situational?

Ledgebending is still situational as far as I know. I was told there was a way of doing it consistently by a member from YouTube who viewed my ledgebending on Final Destination. I never got around to testing it, though.

 

[_clinton]

He once told me he never sandbags. At the next tourney I saw him at he played G&W in bracket and got sent to loser's bracket early, which really pissed off a lot of people in loser's bracket and threw off a lot of the results entirely.

Dude...that is ****ing awesome...

 

[RandomLax]

Thanks Uffe, good to know I'm not the only Insomniac
And as for the ATs I learned about 60% of PK Cross, however
just wanted to know which a good ness like yourself or good Ness main find especially useful.

And Isn't Firebounding without
Bsticking Impossible?

And thanks for the advice althought I was considering keeping him as a second, however maining Ness.

 

[NintenJoe]

And Isn't Firebounding without
Bsticking Impossible?

No, it's just a little harder to learn. You need to flick the analog stick weird and do a manual b-stick. It's hard to explain and pretty hard to do if you don't know how. I learned how to do it on accident.

 

[CarVac]

I switched from G&W to Ness, actually. I was pretty good with G&W, but I found it to be too boring: you do the same thing over and over. I remember reading somewhere that the 3 characters that rely on their aerials are G&W, Wario, and Ness. I tried Wario, but Ness's Bair made my decision. (I liked the offstage rising bair killing power).

I really don't fastfall aerials at all, other than Dair when coming back down onto the stage.
The only real AT I use is pivot PK Fire. I dashdance in and out of range, then throw a PK Fire.
Like Uffe said, don't land right in front of them after the aerial. If you can, jump before you land (possible with a quick aerial like nair or bair).
I use the default controls.

I still keep G&W.

 

[RandomLax]

I switched from G&W to Ness, actually. I was pretty good with G&W, but I found it to be too boring: you do the same thing over and over.

This is so true many people dont realise that G&W while extremely good, is so boring to play with. And he has what seems to be a 10 min. learning curve. (Turtle,Key,Fish Bowl, Bucket Breaking, Smashes,Fairs, Uairs, and Tech Chases) are the only things you need to survive with him.

And Firebounding without Bsticking is possible? Input please?

And another thanks to the Ness' who took time to answer my questions.

 

[Meccs]

I heard Ness can get a PK Fiah lock on MK, is that true? A the tourney I went to Saturday (it was a close match ) but after the match the kid told me that he's lucky cause he could have easily lost because of, well, the aforementioned question. Kicking myself right now...

 

[AvariceX]

You can't lock anyone in PK Fire if they have any clue how to DI. Only Bowser (and Ike off-stage) really suffers from PK-Fire chains.

 

[Eagleye893]

whats firebounding again? is it pkjump in the opposite direction? ... nevermind.... i don't think a majority of ness' pkfire techs are that useful to have "learned" but instead randomly incorporate by the feel of how ness plays.

as for firebounding... i don't know exactly what it is or how you do it but it seems like pkjump back, breverse, then continue backwards... unless i'm wrong.

 

[Uffe]

Look around 2:06 on this Firebound video. You can also do that reverse, but I think it's harder. I can't remember. Really quick, you cannot Firebound without B-sticking. Or so I've been told.

 

[Shaky]

To my fellow Ness players I've come for advice.
I'm potentially maining Ness (dropping G&W) and have read PK Cross about 5 times as well as various other Ness guides listed in his "useful links" thread. My questions are...
Should Ness' aerials be fastfalled consistently?
What are the most useful advanced techniques to master with Ness?
What are Ness' best options to avoid being shield grabbed?
What are your thoughts on controller configuration?
Has ledgebending been figured out, or is it still situational?

Learn how to use PK Thunder. I hope that answers all your questions.

 

[RandomLax]

Learn how to use PK Thunder. I hope that answers all your questions.

Lol GG Shaky PK Thunda! was the first at I ever learned with Ness, oh sweet 64... But I can PK Thunda! Well for future reference.

Sidenote: Yo-yo spiking I know your opponents DI is partially responsible, however this can only be done if the yoyo is extended on the stages "lip" correct?

Btw are there any videos of you playing Shaky?
Except that Set with Pit...
I saw you in WE CAN RECOVER!

 

[Neon Ness]

Sidenote: Yo-yo spiking I know your opponents DI is partially responsible, however this can only be done if the yoyo is extended on the stages "lip" correct?

Yeah...

But keep in mind Ness can't charge his up smash when standing at the very edge of a stage (for some odd reason). You'll have to stand a little distance away from the edge, then dash a little and do a sliding up smash and charge that in order for the yo-yo to hang over the edge.

 

[NintenJoe]

To my fellow Ness players I've come for advice.
I'm potentially maining Ness (dropping G&W) and have read PK Cross about 5 times as well as various other Ness guides listed in his "useful links" thread. My questions are...
Should Ness' aerials be fastfalled consistently?
What are the most useful advanced techniques to master with Ness?
What are Ness' best options to avoid being shield grabbed?
What are your thoughts on controller configuration?
Has ledgebending been figured out, or is it still situational?

Not all of Ness' aerials should be fast falled, especially not Fair. FF Fair almost always leads to punishment against characters with good jabs, such as Ike and Marth. If you're still close to your opponent after an Fair, either aerial rise a second one or fast fall and perform an Nair.

Fair shouldn't be fast falled.
Nair should be fast falled.
Uair should be FF.
The rest are disgretionary.

Ness is a very flexible character that has several different playstyles. Since he has reliable aerials, a good spike, great jab and grab game, and incredible projectiles, he can be played many different ways. That being said, people use different ATs based on their playstyle and perspective. I, for example, think that PK Thunder shield poking, aerial rise, hyphen smash, and retreating PK Fire are all essential techniques to learn. Some may think that the aerial rise leaves Ness to vulnerable in the air and that hyphen smash sucks because Ness' Usmash isn't reliable. The only realy essential techniques to learn are different ways to recover with PK Thunder because you'll be off the stage a lot.

Ness' best options to avoid shield grabs are spacing with his projectiles, SH Fair to a retreating aerial risen Fair, and SH Fair to FF Nair, to name a few.

Controller configuration depends on what techniques you think are useful. I potentially see PK Jump as a good technique, but I don't want to change my control scheme in order to use it. I use default without tap jump because I would rather have a reliable Utilt then a good OoS Usmash.

Ledgebending is still OMGWTFBBQ I think

 

[Uffe]

Yeah...

But keep in mind Ness can't charge his up smash when standing at the very edge of a stage (for some odd reason). You'll have to stand a little distance away from the edge, then dash a little and do a sliding up smash and charge that in order for the yo-yo to hang over the edge.

Angled stages don't let Ness charge his u-smash or d-smash, either, IIRC. To make your Yo-yo hang off the edge more easily, just go to Training Mode and try to dash at both sides near the edge and then quickly hold your up smash. Eventually it'll be easier to pull off. Use PK Thunder on opponents when they're returning for Shaky's sake.

 

[Shaky]

Lol GG Shaky PK Thunda! was the first at I ever learned with Ness, oh sweet 64... But I can PK Thunda! Well for future reference.

Sidenote: Yo-yo spiking I know your opponents DI is partially responsible, however this can only be done if the yoyo is extended on the stages "lip" correct?

Btw are there any videos of you playing Shaky?
Except that Set with Pit...
I saw you in WE CAN RECOVER!

No, I don't think there's any other video of me besides that one vs. Pit. I'll try to get some matches recorded for the next tournament I go to.

 

[NintenJoe]

what spot on the sheild does PK Thunder need to enter in order to pierce it?

 

[Eagleye893]

do you mean scrape or pierce? scrape is almost the absolute edge, while piercing you must already be scraping the opponents shield... or something like that. i never actually did it... but any point i believe.

 

[NintenJoe]

do you mean scrape or pierce? scrape is almost the absolute edge, while piercing you must already be scraping the opponents shield... or something like that. i never actually did it... but any point i believe.

I can scrape pretty easily, but I've only pierced a few times. It seems to happen to me randomly...

 

[Eagleye893]

i don't really know too much about it.... i would take any replays that you have of yourself doing it and see if there is anything in common, then take the replays where you don't do it and see how it differs.... I would assume that you might need to make the tailwhipping part that scrapes the shield stay there for as long as possible until you get the pkt head to completely enter the shield... or maybe you have to have the pkt head enter just as the tailwhip hits the shield.... Anybody else able to help out? i'm not the scraping and piercing expert...

I'll try and see if i can do anything to test it out... but i don't have any human players to go against to put their shield up at the right time.

 

[Uffe]

I think I have a replay somewhere with me fighting my brother and then piercing through his shield. I stopped there and saved it.

 

[thesage]

Does anybody else here circle an opponents shield with pkt when the opponent is on a platform? It's amazing.

 

[Neon Ness]

For the record.

You can't pierce without scraping.

First you have to just barely skim the opponent's shield with the side of the Thunderhead. After that you can just go right through their shield with the bolt. It doesn't eat away at their shield as much as you'd think, but it is confusing if looped around intelligently, and often forces a premature shield drop. Also a viable PKT2 setup at point blank.

@ sage: I started doing that on Battlefield once you mentioned it. Works wonders, son.

 

[Uffe]

Does anybody else here circle an opponents shield with pkt when the opponent is on a platform? It's amazing.

I did that. It made me laugh. Shield up, shield down, oh, wait, what's going on? Shield up, shield down, what the hell, man?!