Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Ref]

the double jump PK Fire thing, and the reverseish version...is it actually useful?

How do you use DSH aerials, Ref?

Generally I double jump but I use double short hop aerials in combination of the short hop to double jump because this way I can land with it. If being grounded is an advantage at the time....

The double jump is safer though because there is no landing lag.

Ask EB360 about pk fire weird tactics I only use the basic ones.

 

[Levitas]

This thread is too important to be on the second page.

 

[thesage]

Meh, I'll take Ref's place as the ec tournament going Ness main.

 

[Ref]

Cool. I would like 5 cheese burgers and 4 packs of fries

Sweet and sour sauce with those nuggets.

Umm yeah I'm the best retired Ness?

I don't want to slip into boredom... I mean BRAWLDOM.

2,337 post looks kinda cool....





I'll probably answer some questions here sometime.... Because everyone knows it's impossible to really lose brawl skills.

 

[Uffe]

Why did you leave? Actually it's none of my business and it's more of a joke question. But we do miss you.

How do I deal with campers? I thought I had it down, but apparently I don't.

 

[xoxokev]

Why did you leave? Actually it's none of my business and it's more of a joke question. But we do miss you.

How do I deal with campers? I thought I had it down, but apparently I don't.

counter pick luigi's mansion, hit them a little, run behind a column and let the time run out

DUH

 

[Shaky]

Why did you leave? Actually it's none of my business and it's more of a joke question. But we do miss you.

How do I deal with campers? I thought I had it down, but apparently I don't.

If that is a reference to Excellence, it is pretty funny.

 

[thesage]

Ref doesn't like brawl. That's why he quit. He plays melee now. He's probably really good due to the players he has access to.

 

[Uffe]

If that is a reference to Excellence, it is pretty funny.

No. Just camping in general.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I have a bunch of questions, should I just make a new topic?

 

[Neon Ness]

Do anything but that.

Just ask them all here. That's what the thread is for.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I really need help with my Ness. Heck, I might just need help with Brawl in general. My friends are always comboing me and chain grabbing me and I can never figure out what to do about it. And there are also many instances when I'm really trying to kill them, but I can't approach them because they're throwing projectiles or they have something planned for when I get close, and that always scares me. All I can do is wait for them to approach me. But when they DO come at me, I get scared again and don't know what to do. I just attack them and they always counter it with something. So as you can see, when I play Brawl, I never really have a game plan, I just attack people and guard when I'm in danger, so I need help with that. Unfortunately I don't have a video to show you guys so I'll just explain it the best way I can.

1. How can I (Ness) fight a Ganondorf that LOVES to stomp on you?
2. Whenever my opponent is trying to get back on the stage, I always try to spike them, but that usually fails 90% of the time. So is there a better way to keep an opponent from getting back on the stage with Ness?
3. I have some trouble hitting people with the tail of Ness' PK Thunder. I know that if I can manage to hit someone with the tail, it sets them up for a PK Thunder2. Any tips?
4. I've seen videos of people doing a PK Thunder2 where the thunder goes through the edge of the stage and hits Ness. I tried this and it didn't work. Is there some sort of trick?
5. Ness combos! My friends can combo and I can't. Are there any good Ness combos? The only one I know is D-throw>F-air>U-air>PKT2. But I always skip the U-air part because I can never pull it off....

 

[thesage]

1. Spam fair/nair
2. learn how to edgehog and edgeguard with nair
3. The tail always follows where the head goes. Think of hitting with the head, but a little later. I don't really know how I can help you with this. Just learn the hitboxes.
4. Fair to jab works if they are dumb. Uair to utilt (low percents). Tailwhip to pkt2. dair to uair. Dair to pkt/pkt2. Uair to pkt/pkt2. Nair to nair. Nair to fair. These aren't really combos, you just follow their di and hope they don't do anything semi-intelligent. Now brawl+ well... in my first singles match I did a dair > utilt > uair x 3 > pkt2 combo. It was amazing (it was also recorded lol). Ness can also Ken combo legitly in brawl +. It works sometimes in regular brawl if they di wrong.

Brawl doesn't have combos. Learn to di/airdodge/ nair out of them.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Sorry, I added another question...

 

[Neon Ness]

Man, I sympathize with the first one. There's someone at my university who thunderstorms like there's no tomorrow. I still have trouble with it.

First things first, you're going to have to figure out how this person sets you up for a stompin'. If you can stop him or her from setting you up for it, you can deal accordingly. One thing I can say is, if you're on land and they're jumping about, that's prolly a red flag. Do not leave yourself underneath Ganondorf. Stay to his side, for one. It has a pretty huge hitbox even horizontally, so try to outrange him horizontally--use forward air. Stay airborne of possible, I find that when I get on land I'm more susceptible. I don't know this person's playstyle, so the best way for you to overcome it is to play a lot of good Ganondorfs, and practice. It ain't gonna happen overnight. If they approach with Wizard's Foot or choke, that means they're trying to close the distance and set up a thunderstorm. If you do get caught in one, well... I hope your DI is up to par.

Edgeguarding depends on the situation. Spiking isn't something you just throw out, you need to set that

up for it to work. There are a lot of other options-- charging PK Flash, chasing with PK Thunder, PSI Magnet wind, or charging the Yo-Yo right on the edge of the stage. Practice these options and figure out which ones work best for you. Also, don't always feel the need to spike with down air. I actually get as many or more KOs from the sour spot.

 

[Uffe]

Don't be scared. You're letting your fear get in the way. It's kind of hard not to let this happen, but if you know them well enough, then you shouldn't fear them. I kind of do wish you had some replays so I could check them out and see where you're going wrong. Overall, I think your fear is getting in the way of your matches.

When you fear, you begin to choke up and most likely end up doing stupid things that you normally wouldn't find yourself doing. I get scared a bit when I fight new people, but as soon as the match starts, I'm not scared. If you're scared of your opponents, it's either because they've defeated you tons of times or something else. I used to be afraid of fighting my friend on lag-fi because he'd always win. Eventually I learned from my mistakes.

How can I (Ness) fight a Ganondorf that LOVES to stomp on you?
Stop rolling as this could be the reason you're getting hit. If that's not it, you're spot dodging while he's in the air. When Ganondorf is in the air, there's no way for him to grab you other than his **** Grab and Forward B. But because you're on the ground, chances are he won't do that. Your only options are to shield and/or space better.

Whenever my opponent is trying to get back on the stage, I always try to spike them, but that usually fails 90% of the time. So is there a better way to keep an opponent from getting back on the stage with Ness?
Mix it up. With dair, you've got three characteristics.

1. The first one is the basic dair itself.
2. Rising dair - It's still dair, but as you dair, use your second jump and dair at the same time. There's this weird pulling effect that lifts you up but also wants to pull you down at the same time. I believe the reason is because you're using a down aerial and jumping upward at the same time. This allows you to lift yourself up above the opponent and spike them.
3. Pillar spiking - Kind of hard to pull off and fairly situational. You use PK Fire on your opponent as they return and dair them.

It's your choice to use what you want. But there are also other options. You can nair towards them or use fair to push them back and rack up damage and you can go under them and use uair on them. This is all about timing and mixing things up. If you continue to do the same thing over and over again, your opponent reads you easily.

You can also use PK Thunder or PK Flash. With PK Thunder, you can tailwhip them and cancel their second jump or you can just hit them head on and harrass them over and over again. PK Flash is pretty situational, but good for edgeguarding. Just make sure your opponent isn't above stage level but maybe at stage level or below it.

Don't use this on characters with Reflectors, abilities to absorb or characters who can Counter. It's not good. Of course there are some characters that you can put in a bad spot. Ganondorf is one of them.

I have some trouble hitting people with the tail of Ness' PK Thunder. I know that if I can manage to hit someone with the tail, it sets them up for a PK Thunder2. Any tips?
Tailwhipping is hard if you've never done it, but it gets easy quickly if you continuously make the attempt. As for tailwhipping > PKT2, easier said than done. You don't need to tailwhip just to land a PKT2.

It probably makes things a tad easier, but it's not necessary. PKT2 isn't meant to be predictable. If your opponent sees you trying this, just make your PKT fly overhead and at them.

Ness combos! My friends can combo and I can't. Are there any good Ness combos? The only one I know is D-throw>F-air>U-air>PKT2. But I always skip the U-air part because I can never pull it off....
I won't even bother explaining these to you. Plus, like they say, "Actions speak louder than words." Of course this has really nothing to do with that quote I guess, but just take a look at this.
Ness' Double Aerial Shuffle (DAS)

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I do have two videos my friend posted of me (losing...terribly). The only problem is that they're of me playing Brawl+ (which I never got use to) and Brawl+ is very different from normal Brawl. Also, it was back when I use to play with Wiimote and nunchuk (which wasn't that long ago...I JUST made the switch to GC controller yesterday...and it is sooo much better. )

So the biggest reason I sucked in these videos is because it was my first time playing Brawl+...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3rFE_ZnSa8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkLaBaNH9Yc

 

[Uffe]

Hm. I've never seen Brawl+ videos before. I can't really judge these, though since it's not just Brawl.

 

[FireKirby7]

I have no idea how to rate a Brawl+ player.....
I never even tried it, maybe I should..... later.

 

[Uffe]

Hm. Brawl+ may be great for competitive play, but I see many flaws in it. There's a reason why Brawl was made the way it is.

 

[Gaussis]

Addresssing it over just in case...

I really need help with my Ness. Heck, I might just need help with Brawl in general. My friends are always comboing me and chain grabbing me and I can never figure out what to do about it. And there are also many instances when I'm really trying to kill them, but I can't approach them because they're throwing projectiles or they have something planned for when I get close, and that always scares me. All I can do is wait for them to approach me. But when they DO come at me, I get scared again and don't know what to do. I just attack them and they always counter it with something. So as you can see, when I play Brawl, I never really have a game plan, I just attack people and guard when I'm in danger, so I need help with that. Unfortunately I don't have a video to show you guys so I'll just explain it the best way I can.

1. How can I (Ness) fight a Ganondorf that LOVES to stomp on you?
2. Whenever my opponent is trying to get back on the stage, I always try to spike them, but that usually fails 90% of the time. So is there a better way to keep an opponent from getting back on the stage with Ness?
3. I have some trouble hitting people with the tail of Ness' PK Thunder. I know that if I can manage to hit someone with the tail, it sets them up for a PK Thunder2. Any tips?
4. I've seen videos of people doing a PK Thunder2 where the thunder goes through the edge of the stage and hits Ness. I tried this and it didn't work. Is there some sort of trick?
5. Ness combos! My friends can combo and I can't. Are there any good Ness combos? The only one I know is D-throw>F-air>U-air>PKT2. But I always skip the U-air part because I can never pull it off....

1. If thunderstorming is the issue, try to force Ganon to approach using PK Thunder. Ganons won't approach with it because it leaves them wide open to virtually every setup Ness has if it is shielded. It's far too risky. Instead, expect it as a punisher or a surprise attack. If they are jumping around, just use PKT and pressure them to approach. It takes care of thunderstorming quite effectively.
2. Using any other aerial is a good idea.
3. This one takes getting used to how PKT works. If you aren't used to the mechanics of PKT, then this will seem very difficult for you. It is finding a way to limit your opponent's options through the tail. For example, Ness players wrap PKT around an airdodging opponent to keep them from landing.
4. It depends on how the stage is built and where you stand.
5. That is a chain. True combos are hard to come by. The closest we probably have for combos are DAS Nair to Uair/Fair/Nair.

 

[xoxokev]

I'm having trouble with the nair -> uair DAS... I can do nair -> nair... but I guess uair takes a little longer to come out... does anyone have tips on hitting the first nair faster? I slide my thumb from the Y button to the A button, but apparently I'm not doing it fast enough...

Also, some dude on the Samus board has figured out a way to ALMOST chaingrab us!!!! What the heck maaaaaannnn

 

[ViceGrip]

ummm, what works for me is just bringing my thumb down on the Y and then A almost instantaneously but not quite. Same goes for bair but just pressing a different direction on the control stick. This causes ness to jump and nair immediately. Then i tap up on the c-stick once I'm flying thru the air to make the uair come out b4 i hit the ground. hope that helped

vs gannon u basically just use fair, combo with nair in the air once you have him there (rhymage!) as much as u can, and abuse projectiles. that's gg for gannon. Also don't challenge his uair w/ your dair-it's probably not going to be worth it.

No idea how to judge Brawl plus as well *shrugs

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I'm having trouble with the nair -> uair DAS... I can do nair -> nair... but I guess uair takes a little longer to come out... does anyone have tips on hitting the first nair faster? I slide my thumb from the Y button to the A button, but apparently I'm not doing it fast enough...

Also, some dude on the Samus board has figured out a way to ALMOST chaingrab us!!!! What the heck maaaaaannnn

NOOO!!! Why they gotta hate on Ness!? Could Samus destroy evil itself with a baseball bat? I don't think so.

 

[Uffe]

I doubt Samus has a chaingrab on us. I think she has a grab release, though. Grab > d-tilt. That's not good for us, either, since Ness doesn't really survive from her d-tilt around 140-45%. I'm not sure what the exact percent is, but it's somewhere around there. Of course I'm not sure if she has a grab release on Ness. Usually Dryn likes to pull that off on me. And seriously, the Y button? You Ness mains are weird. It's all about the X button.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

3. Psych them out, curve it below them, loop it around them... hit them with the head at the end it's duration, repeat. Learn how long it lasts. It should be programmed into your brain.
4. Hollow stages or just on the corner. PKT cancels at tha middle, so if the edge hits you through the stage before the middle of the ball hits the stage...

Your questions remind me of... me.

 

[Neon Ness]

3. Psych them out, curve it below them, loop it around them... hit them with the head at the end it's duration, repeat. Learn how long it lasts. It should be programmed into your brain.

Reeaally good advice; it should definitely be programmed into your brain. This is crucial if you want to master PKT--which all Nesses should. Learning how long it lasts allows you to know the limits of it, and what you can do with it in the amount of time that it lasts. This will help in faking out your opponent, tailwhipping, and less predictable recovery.

 

[xoxokev]

Reeaally good advice; it should definitely be programmed into your brain. This is crucial if you want to master PKT--which all Nesses should. Learning how long it lasts allows you to know the limits of it, and what you can do with it in the amount of time that it lasts. This will help in faking out your opponent, tailwhipping, and less predictable recovery.

the actual hitbox of pkt lasts about 2 seconds

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I think I might know why I keep losing to my friends, they can predict what I'm about to do before I do it and it always screws me up. But I can't predict them. They always catch me off guard. Ooooooooooh!

 

[Gaussis]

Don't just rely on mindgames (or tricking if you please). They can help, but they can get stale if you rely on them. Use PKT in ways that force your opponent into desirable situations. For example, PKT after fthrow/uthrow and learn how to limit their options after the throw. It's stuff like that that you should keep in mind.

 

[Levitas]

A common tactic that separates good players from OK players is knowing how to capitalize on your opponent not noticing something important.

If your opponent always techs to the left into your grab, always chase them to the left and get a free grab.

If your opponent likes to DI your dthrow towards, throw out a nair.

The moral of the story is that free damage is free damage, and it's to your advantage to be able to recognize free damage when it presents itself to you.

Next up: How to notice your opponent is catching on, and second layer mixups

 

[Collective of Bears]

What the hell are these things?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

What the hell are these things?

Hyper Ness, virtually the coolest things ever.

 

[Zip.]

What would you say Ness's Learning Curve is?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

What would you say Ness's Learning Curve is?

On a steak scale.
Medium-well
It's his favorite food.

 

[:mad:]

^This.
I actually had steak tonight, no joke. I was at the top of my game.
And I somehow gained the ability to play Sonic.

 

[CarVac]

I have a question.

The other day, I ledgebent the other day. However, I was trying to PKT2 from diagonally above and bounced diagonally below the ledge and died. Has that happened to anyone, and should it happen?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I have a question.

The other day, I ledgebent the other day. However, I was trying to PKT2 from diagonally above and bounced diagonally below the ledge and died. Has that happened to anyone, and should it happen?

If you hit the edge even a little off on some stages it sends you plummeting.

 

[xoxokev]

What would you say Ness's Learning Curve is?

um. i would say its among the highest learning curves of the game... but once you practice with PKT for a few days/weeks you can get the hang off it

I have a question.

The other day, I ledgebent the other day. However, I was trying to PKT2 from diagonally above and bounced diagonally below the ledge and died. Has that happened to anyone, and should it happen?

i never try to ledgebend on purpose... depending on where your opponent is, it's probably a better option to aim for the stage instead of the ledge anyway

 

[PMKNG]

Id agree that his learning curve is one of the highest, well thats mainly cause of his recovery. When I first started playing smash i thought ness was garbage, hell even till early brawl I thought so. But once you learn him and get to a certain point theres a certain pride about having gotten decent with ness. the only problem is getting from decent to pro.