Ness: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Ness. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[kupo15]

This should be added for competitiveness

Ness' Bat
0A123E32 0016902C
123E3200 01690000
8BA05276 0A143E32
0016902C 143E3200
01690000 8BA05276
0A163E32 0016902C
163E3200 01690000
8BA05276 0A183E32
0016902C 183E3200
01690000 8BA05276

Homerun bat sound change

 

[Foxy]

Why is his fair so bad?

Hitlag changes seems to make it rarely hit with more than the first couple of hitboxes.

It's a really important approach move for Ness and maybe it could be fixed?

 

[shanus]

Foxy, I have no idea what your talking about haha

his fair is like O_o

 

[Revven]

His Fair is fine, in fact, the entire character is fine. Only thing he needs is the Homerun Bat sound effect for his bat. >_>

 

[Foxy]

That's quite odd, then... I remember in 3.3 it was really good and when I played with Ness in 4.0 the fair seemed to rarely connect well.

I have no idea what my problem is... just ignore it, if I went and tested it I'd probably find it was fine. Maybe my opponents were SDIing out.

 

[Revven]

Okay, Sage and I discussed a bunch of **** last night about Ness. Here's what I would like to try out to make him a bit better.

Give him some momentum, not a lot, just enough so Fair is actually a good approach.
Change the scaling on Uair so it kills people a bit earlier (I'll get %s about where it kills later today, don't have the time right now).
Dsmash works like Ganondorf's Dsmash (would allow for some combos)
Usmash, make it a combo move (as in, allow Ness to combo from, perhaps a grab).
Speed up Ftilt as his GTFO move
Speed up Utilt's wind-down so he can combo from after it instead of having to only do two Utilts and then a Uair.

Besides those, there were a bunch others we were talking about. However, right now, I'd like to try those changes in the test set and see how he is. Does anyone agree?

 

[goodoldganon]

When did Ness become a character that needed so many buffs now? I don't play him I just always thought we agreed he was a good character. Not great but certainly better the ones like D3, Ganon, and some of the others questionable characters. Just my two cents.

 

[Revven]

When did Ness become a character that needed so many buffs now? I don't play him I just always thought we agreed he was a good character. Not great but certainly better the ones like D3, Ganon, and some of the others questionable characters. Just my two cents.

Read Sage's post in the Ness thread, he's really our only REALLY tourney-goer Ness.

Edit: Honestly, I thought he was fine too but, Sage seems to think he's got terrible combos and his ground game is trash (which I agree with). However, I'd much rather like to buff his air game which is why I suggested Uair scaling change, momentum, and Usmash as a combo move (would allow him to combo into the air).

Utilt isn't necessary but he needs a good GTFO move and Ftilt is it, so let's at least speed that ****er up and make the Uair scaling change and add a little momentum and change Usmash and see how he is from there.

Sound good?

 

[The Cape]

This is what I have so far:

Up tilt

Start up:4
Hits:5
Hit lag: 6-11
ENDS: 36
Shield Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 3


F tilt

Start up: 6
Hits:7
Hit lag: 8-16
Ends: 42
Shield Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 3


Up smash charging hit

Start up: 8
Hits: 9
Hit lag: 10-14
Ends: ????
Shield Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 3


Up smash

Start up: 8
Hits: 9, 15
Hit lag: 10-14, 16-22
Ends: 65
Shield Lag: 8
Shield stun: 3


Down smash charging hit

Start up: 9
Hits: 10
Hit lag: 11-15
Ends: ????
Shield Lag: 6
Shield stun: 3

Down Smash

Start up: 9
Hits: 10, 17
Hit lag: 11-15, 18-24? (Hard to tell, there seems to be frames where Ness/ Yo Yo is completely still in his down smash, these are not hit lag ones though...)
ENDS: 75
Shield Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4


What would you propose be done to them for testing purposes?

 

[Revven]

Ftilt needs some definite less wind-down, 42 frames total for a tilt that's not even that good? Probably speed up the wind-down so it ends on frame 33? Maybe even sooner than that? Frame 21? Just something so he isn't left so vulnerable.

USmash charging hit I think Sage said needs to be stronger, but, I'd rather like to try Usmash (the main part of it) have low KB enough so that he can combo from it.

And TRY to make Dsmash hit like Ganon's does, and if you can't, make the back hit drag them to the front hit if possible... And if not, the best course of action would be to do what Smash 64 did with it: make it a useful edgeguard.

 

[The Cape]

SMK, send me a message on MSN and lets work on these?

 

[Team Giza]

I am glad we are discussing Ness buffs now. Since the shieldstun is going down a bit on weak hits his dtilt, jabs and fair suffered quite a bit. The drop in hitstun has made him worse from previous versions as well.

Ness is looking worse and worse in my eyes. He is only decent against fastfallers and bigger characters. He has a hell of a time getting hits in one the smaller fast characters. I don't see many pros to playing him over Lucas anymore especially since all the Lucas buffs.

I don't know too much about Ness. From what I can tell Ness is supposed to be a character who can break through defenses while not having good defensive tactics himself. He seems to be no longer be doing a good job of breaking through defenses right now and that is a huge problem. There are some changes that I would like to see but some of them are not completely related to what it seems his character type;

Lower the height of Ness' shorthop. +makes for better approach and makes him better against shorter characters

Speed up the winddown on air so it still autocancels from a shorthop. +fixes a major issue with lowering his shorthop

PK fire does more dmg, has less knockback, spikes, and has its winddown sped up. If its possible try to make it give when shieldstun when the initial hit is blocked. +right now its hard to get in at all and doesn't have that much of a reward when it hits

Dashattack made safer on shield. +lets face it Ness is pretty darn slow on the ground, if his dashattack gave him more of an advantage for hitting a shielding character it would definitely help his defense pressuring game.

 

[The Cape]

Ness: Dair comes out 1.25x faster:
0A008066 3FA00000
0A108066 3F800000

Dash attack 1.6x after hitbox ends:
0A270026 3FCCCCCC

U tilt 2x after hitbox:
0A060028 40000000

D smash 2x after last hitbox:
0A10002F 40000000

We can speed up the winddown on PKT2 so he can DI better out of it (think the Ivysaur one) and make it more like Lucas's freefall in that sense.

We can also give him Mario's physics (tried it tonight and he was DISGUSTINGLY good). Also, had some of the buffs above, they work extremely well although at least the D smash one may have been sped up a bit too much. We can keep that speed on it, but make the move hit inwards with a lower base to help setup Uair KOs.

Also, no freefall from B moves. Great buff to Ness.

PK firewinddown speed up is a good thing, but the one in is definetly overpowered. Spammable much?

 

[goodoldganon]

Red as always

Ness: Dair comes out 1.25x faster:
0A008066 3FA00000
0A108066 3F800000

I was against this at first but playing a lot of Ness recently shows he isn't anything special so I retract my original statement. DO IT!

Dash attack 1.6x after hitbox ends:
0A270026 3FCCCCCC

I'm weary this is safe and spammable on shields like Lucas's is. (Which needs to be addressed)

U tilt 2x after hitbox:
0A060028 40000000

Sure, I guess...

D smash 2x after last hitbox:
0A10002F 40000000

Sure, I guess... Looks too fast though

We can speed up the winddown on PKT2 so he can DI better out of it (think the Ivysaur one) and make it more like Lucas's freefall in that sense.

Good plan

We can also give him Mario's physics (tried it tonight and he was DISGUSTINGLY good). Also, had some of the buffs above, they work extremely well although at least the D smash one may have been sped up a bit too much. We can keep that speed on it, but make the move hit inwards with a lower base to help setup Uair KOs.

Sounds like a plan

Also, no freefall from B moves. Great buff to Ness.

Meh, I'm not really for this. Seems superficial and superfluous. He doesn't work like Zelda and glide during Din's Fire. If you use PK Flash and fall of the stage that's your own **** fault. And eating the PK Thunder has been a weakness of the character since day 1, one I don't think needs to be removed.

PK firewinddown speed up is a good thing, but the one in is definetly overpowered. Spammable much?

Hahaha, just a bit

Alopex and I were talking in IRC and we wanted to buff the pushback on the Down-B and make it really quick, giving Ness a different and innovative buff. Though the buffs for D3 are nice, I feel we kinda slacked off and took the easy way with him. 'Moar combo potential and a better KO move, DONE!' I guess I'd just like to try something different with Ness. Think outside the box.

 

[kupo15]

Ness: Dair comes out 1.25x faster:
0A008066 3FA00000
0A108066 3F800000

Why? Its a huge hitbox that I think is plenty fast not to mention very strong. Its one of the better meteors in the game

Dash attack 1.6x after hitbox ends:
0A270026 3FCCCCCC

Doesn't this move combo well enough already? It also sets up nicely for the utilt

U tilt 2x after hitbox:
0A060028 40000000

I'm unsure about this

D smash 2x after last hitbox:
0A10002F 40000000

I don't understand why. He can pressure nicely as is

We can also give him Mario's physics (tried it tonight and he was DISGUSTINGLY good).

Really? So a c/p of all of mario's stats? Neat

Also, no freefall from B moves. Great buff to Ness.

He is a beast on stage, his recovery is fine I think. The only buff it should get is not to bounce off of the walls. I'm not sure what the concern is here

PK firewinddown speed up is a good thing, but the one in is definetly overpowered. Spammable much?

Can't he already fire to grab?

It would seem like we are making buffs to make characters easy to play and make every move true combo into the next which is not a direction I like. Most problems are not with the moves themselves but with the mechanics of the game like OP air dodge imo.

 

[Revven]

Thoughts on this post please: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7338663&postcount=66

He says the following:

I have a small irk with Ness. I'm not exactly sure if this is the right place to talk about potential buffs/nerfs, but I'm not sure where else to post this (and the Ness+ board doesn't want people talking about buffs/nerfs).

It's about his bat. I know people have compared it to Lucas' stick before, but there is no reason the bat should EVER deal less knockback than the stick. The only time the bat does more knockback is at the very tip, and it's a very tiny difference (KO's Mario from the middle of FD only 4% earlier). It does do more damage, but it is much slower and harder to use as a KO move (or hit with in general). I at least think the KO power should be consistent, like the stick, which has the same knockback wherever it hits.

My 2¢

So, should we make the tipper stronger? I think we should. The move is slow enough that you need Godlike spacing to hit with the tipper and it's easy to see coming. I'd say it should kill 10% earlier than hitting with the middle part of the bat. Sound good?

 

[goodoldganon]

So, here's my beef with Ness, but it also directly correlates to Lucas. When we started with a large amount of the character adjustments, Lucas was one of the original big 5 we knew that needed help. So we buffed him and brought him into line with the other characters. Ness has kind of been left to himself and until recently was deemed an acceptable character. Now here's my problem with Lucas and Ness:

They are becoming too **** similar! In my opinion, Lucas is an easier to use, higher payout character. Lucas kills easier, builds damage faster, recovers more effectively (and easily) and is overall just a superior character to Ness. Everything Ness can do, Lucas does it better. And here we are buffing Ness to do a lot of things Lucas can do, but that's just down right BORING!

Look at Falcon and Ganondorf. Two perfect clones that couldn't possibly play differently then each. For example, Ganon's Kick is actually useful and Falcon's is almost totally useless. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses and each goes about their game in radically different ways.

What I want to do with Ness is try something NEW and EXCITING to buff him back into range of the others characters. I don't think he needs an entire retooling, but giving him a few new exciting techniques would be far more fun then "Generic Bat Speed Up". I'd like to sit down and talk to Ness mains and give Ness something really special to truly make him different then his clone, cause right now I'd argue they are the 'cloniest' of the clones.

The one buff I had in mind was making his PK Adsorb (the down-b) super quick and buffing the windpush back on. A simple way to help give Ness some space, something different from Lucas, and to play towards his psychic abilities. I don't know if any other Ness mains agree with me, but I just find him to be a really boring character BECAUSE Lucas is in the game.


Felt it was appropriate back here as well I guess.

 

[The Cape]

The windpush is a great idea and Alopex had an "air mines" idea.

Basically, speed up neutral B, nerf the KB, then slowdown the hitbox so that it stays out and beats sidesteps. Then make it so ness doesnt freefall from it.

He can area control with it really well.

 

[goodoldganon]

That would be a badass change. Truly one of the coolest things a character has ever gotten. Is something like this possible with the frame mod?

 

[kupo15]

Thoughts on this post please: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7338663&postcount=66

He says the following:



So, should we make the tipper stronger? I think we should. The move is slow enough that you need Godlike spacing to hit with the tipper and it's easy to see coming. I'd say it should kill 10% earlier than hitting with the middle part of the bat. Sound good?

I agree. It should be consistent imo

 

[Deleted member]

The windpush is a great idea and Alopex had an "air mines" idea.

Basically, speed up neutral B, nerf the KB, then slowdown the hitbox so that it stays out and beats sidesteps. Then make it so ness doesnt freefall from it.

He can area control with it really well.

last part is ofcourse very easy, as is the speedup and lower KB part.

I'm gonna test some stuff too see if we can slow down the hitbox.

as GoG said, this would be a badass change, and would actually set apart the mother boys.


EDIT, as I see it now we would need an update of the hitbox code to modify the floats there.
after looking into the data the game loads 4 floats and stores them again somewhere else, which it also does with the hitbox data we normally alter (it stores to the same region)

of the 4 mentioned floats the 1st seems less relevant, because it is stored a lot (ok not that much) earlier than the other three, who are stored all next to each other.

if people want it I could modify the hitbox code to allow us to modify all this stuff which would not only make air mines possible but prob a lot more (it means we can alter the timing of all hitboxes.)

problem is this: almas is currently making the big code, and I don't know if this change would be easily transferred to this master code.

thoughts plz

EDIT2
ok bad news and good news

bad one is that these floats are not what I hoped them to be, the speed of hitboxes.

good news is that they are something far better. 2 are hitlag (prob just one of them gotta find out which and what the other is).
one is the size of the hitbox...
yes size, that means we can finally adjust this stuff

since loading the size is done at an earlier breakpoint I can create a seperate point so we might not have to incorporate it in almas code but that depends on the format

 

[Almas]

That's awesome dude. Feel free to paste it into the hitbox code, but use another 32 bit word for it if you can. I'd like to use the current 16 bits in place for my engine code.

 

[Revven]

Okay, tweaking Dsmash and Usmash.

Speed buffs should be moved to where they need to be and we need to fix the **** initial hit. Let me find a video...

Here

At somewhere near the beginning, Sage lands Dsmash BUT the initial hit makes it suck *** (the behind part of it, when you hit with it when he first pulls it out) it doesn't do anything but push Ganondorf back out and take like 3%, leaving Ness punishable for LANDING the move, this is JUST like TL's Fsmash but it pushes them back instead of keeping them in place.

At 3:40 or so, you see Sage land with Usmash on Ganon, again initial hit ****s up the move completely. It makes Ganon able to retaliate and punish Ness for landing a smash attack.

My proposal? One of two things:

1) Increase the KB on the initial hits of both so it pulls them up instead of pushing away. Lower the KB on the Usmash after the initial hit to allow Ness to combo off of it. Dsmash should be the same power after initial hit but, initial hit should overall either be just as powerful or more powerful (or you could make it so after initial hit, Dsmash is more powerful but the initial hit is as powerful as the hitbox after it).

2) Usmash initial hit pulls them in towards you, speeding up the mid part of it so it can end faster to allow Ness to combo from better. Dsmash initial hit could also pull you in much like Falco's reflector does now.

Which one sounds good? It's pretty much the last thing Ness needs IMO.

 

[Shell]

GameSystem and Simna recently brought it to my attention that you can still halve the distance PKT2 recovers by intercepting it off stage. They'd like the PKT2 to always go the full distance, fixing it in the same manner as Falcon Kick was fixed (not sure how that was). It seems like a reasonable request.

Also, Simna mentioned that instead of infinite Up-B attempts, he'd rather just be able to act out of PKT2. This would open up PKT2 -> DJ -> AD recovery, among other options. However he'd be back to his old super-gimpable-self when stuck without a DJ. I'm not sure if this would be better or worse for Ness compared to our current fix, but I thought I'd bring it up for him.

 

[Deleted member]

GameSystem and Simna recently brought it to my attention that you can still halve the distance PKT2 recovers by intercepting it off stage. They'd like the PKT2 to always go the full distance, fixing it in the same manner as Falcon Kick was fixed (not sure how that was). It seems like a reasonable request.

Also, Simna mentioned that instead of infinite Up-B attempts, he'd rather just be able to act out of PKT2. This would open up PKT2 -> DJ -> AD recovery, among other options. However he'd be back to his old super-gimpable-self when stuck without a DJ. I'm not sure if this would be better or worse for Ness compared to our current fix, but I thought I'd bring it up for him.

we could make him act out of it AND give him his second jump back. problem is that I don't know how to limit the amount of upB's.

 

[Shell]

Two second jumps is way too much for a character who should still have a weaker recovery. DJ AD has great range and is (of course) invincible. Just being able to act (and thus DJ once, if at all) after PKT2 is all that's necessary. I don't know how other Ness+ers feel about the trade for infinite Up-B attempts, but Simna's a very respectable vBrawl and past Ness.

 

[Revven]

GameSystem and Simna recently brought it to my attention that you can still halve the distance PKT2 recovers by intercepting it off stage. They'd like the PKT2 to always go the full distance, fixing it in the same manner as Falcon Kick was fixed (not sure how that was). It seems like a reasonable request.

Also, Simna mentioned that instead of infinite Up-B attempts, he'd rather just be able to act out of PKT2. This would open up PKT2 -> DJ -> AD recovery, among other options. However he'd be back to his old super-gimpable-self when stuck without a DJ. I'm not sure if this would be better or worse for Ness compared to our current fix, but I thought I'd bring it up for him.

Falcon Kick was never changed. It's still the same, it deals with the impact of the enemy. When Ness hits someone onstage or their shield, he slows down at the cost of doing huge damage to their shield and or to the opponent. I believe that if we were to somehow change this, it would make PKT2 safe on shield which I think is a bit nuts considering how much damage it does to the shield. You'd have to offset this by nerfing its BKB which is a big no no as PKT2 is used from time to time as an offensive move (it's something Simna did a lot in Melee, mind gamed with PKT1 into PKT2).

Not so sure how you would balance it if you got rid of the momentum stop it causes on impact. I also originally proposed removing this from Ness, but, TheCape and shanus gave the above reason as for why it's not such a good idea... even IF it would help his recovery moreso than the infinite PKT1s.

Edit: I'd like to try it though to see if this DOES happen or not.

 

[shanus]

so yeah, not sure if you all know or not. I made a working DJC in the 6-18 BR set for you all to try out.

There are 2 flaws which will be fixed with new engine codes:
-Ness gets ~3 frames of invuln upon onset of the DJC
-Ness can tech it if he does it immediately into the floor

The awesome:
-everything else
-footstool into DJC is amazing (basically a footstool cancels, and it is amazing, we could put this in to any character, its way too awesome for combos)

 

[The Cape]

Ness changes with TheSage and Count_Kaiser:

Frame Speed:
dj speed up
0A03000C 3F800000
0A00000C 40000000

dair speed up
0A148066 3F800000
0A008066 3FA00000

utilt x1.5 after hitbox
0A0B0028 3FC00000

Down B comes out frame 5:
0A0081E0 40200000
0A0081E4 40200000

Hitbox:
Fair Weak hit (Simna)
0A023C10 03169033
02002003 005B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0A039118 03169033 
03911803 01690000 
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

Dash attack
0A056400 03000026
05640003 00000000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
0A05463C 03064026
05463C03 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
0A056419 00169026
05641900 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
0A046400 03014026
04640003 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
0A046446 03064026
045A5003 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

Uair: (Size increase):
0A0D6D0D 00055033
0D6D0D00 00550000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

U tilt (Base and growth change):
0A077E2A 00060028
076E3700 00600000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

D tilt (3 damage from 4):
0A041403 00000029
03140300 00000000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

U smash (KB and KBG changes and angle on strongs, weak hit angle and type):
49093C5A 00050002
09335A00 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
490D3C46 00050002
0D335A00 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

F smash:
065A9800 00000060
0A123E32 0016902C
183E3200 0016902C
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0A143E32 0016902C
16483200 0016902C
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0A163E32 0016902C
14523200 0016902C
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0A183E32 0016902C
125C3200 0016902C
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

D Smash:
49046400 0006E000
04003208 01540000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
490D3C5A 00037002
0D3C3C00 00190000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

B:
6E01460A 03046002
01460A03 00460000
FFFFFFFF 40000000

Side B:
6604501E 05050000
04001E05 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
66021E0A 05044001
02001405 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
66011E0A 05044001
01001405 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

DownB:
0A006400 00169120
00783200 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

Grab attack:
0A016400 0005003A
01640003 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000


CAM:
Infinite pkt1
0A00011A 011B000F

No Special Fall from neutral B:
0A000118 0010000E

Down B initial has unbreakable super armor (Olimar whistle):
0A000115 0043011E
0A000115 0044011E
0A000115 0045011E

Ness wall bounce fix:
0A00011C 011D011B

Physics:
0A47C790

Throws:
U: 90 base from 105
0A0A6928 0000005A
0A5A2800 0000005A

B: 140 angle from 135
0A0B0F82 00000087
0B0F8200 0000008C

D: 80 base from 90 (this is what you did right Shanus)?
0A045A1E 00000046
04501E00 00000046

Simna decidede changing the way Ness played was a good way to go. This just makes what Ness has a bit more effective overall and only gives him one game changer and its minor.

Ness down B now has unbreakable super armor (see Olimar Whistle) on startup only (which gives it about 5 frames).

Here is a link to the .gct:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c8d125abced84dd0d1014a7a667fa2b49219f811fcd174315be6ba49b5870170

 

[shanus]

First off, some comments. No offense to Kaiser and Sage, but they aren't very good, especially in comparison to Simna. Simna's changed ness barely changed his playstyle, it made his moves good, linkable, and added options to a formerly useless PK flash.

I for one, think the previous Ness played beautifully (as did almost everyone else) and didn't need any of these overhauls at all. I could see reducing the effectiveness of some things a bit, but these changes are hardly necessary and hypocritical if you think you aren't trying to alter Ness' playstyle just like Simna did. I mean, why in the world are we making backthrow less DIable? Why does his downB need superarmor on start-up? If we do give him this, we need to remove infinite PKT1's because that change is stupid good. 5 frames of superarmor from frame 1 is a HUGE buff to a character who isn't bad.

Let me keep going through these:
-Down B superarmor is stupid good. WHat we would have done for ness then is ridiuclous. Easier wall-bounce, infinite PKT1s, zap jump, superarmor frame 1-5? Thats INSANE. Remember, his recovery is his weakness, not his strength.
-PK Flash no freefall is just holding a ness players hand for ****ing up a B-stick
-Uair is ridiculously good. It does not need to be bigger. The thing kills wicked early, and can be combo'd into fairly trivially. I don't even get why anyone would make this bigger.
-Upsmash change still makes it a worthless move with no follow-ups



Here are the good things:
-PK fire to make it less DIable on first hit. The speed-up still was a good idea. Might not need to be as steep before, but it was a hell of a lot more useful than it without a speed up
-Downsmash is interesting, not sure on it yet
-Utilt adjustments

 

[Magus420]

I went and edited the priority of his yoyo projectiles if we want to include it:
http://www.mediafire.com/?4qjx4iclfz1


I also checked out the Hitbox Size/Hitlag Multiplier/SDI Multiplier of his side-b hits. I'm not sure why Cape felt it was difficult to SDI out looking at the stats it has (mediocre hitbox size, 3 frames of hitlag, and a 1.50x SDI mult). If you SDI even once it should be enough for most characters and 2 should be more than enough for anyone to get out of the way. I didn't do anything to them, but it's here if we want to modify it.


U-Smash
0000000004000000000000006E00000000005A00640000000000000000
00000000090000000000000050000000000000003C000000000000005A
000000000D0000000000000050000000000000003C0000000000000046
D-Smash
0000000004000000000000006E00000000005A00640000000000000000
000000000D0000000000000037000000000000003C000000000000005A
Side-B
000000000400000000000000500000000000000050000000000000001E 3.0/1.00x/0.00x
00000000020000000000000044000000000000001E000000000000000A 6.5/1.00x/1.50x
00000000010000000000000044000000000000001E000000000000000A 4.5/1.00x/1.50x

 

[Revven]

Well, I believe that multiplier is for the very first hit of PK Fire. Because whenever I try to SDI it, even in vBrawl, when it hits me (meaning I'm trapped in it) I keep mashing away with the stick and I don't go anywhere. Yet, on the first hit, I go somewhere IF I SDI it and escape getting trapped by it. In vBrawl, when you get hit by it, you almost have to PS it during the move to escape. I'm not sure why the move in PSA says 1.5x SDIability but, when you get hit by it and are in the bulk of the move, you cannot get out of it with SDI (at least, I've tried). On the first hit, you can, the rest of the hits... no.

 

[shanus]

SDI'ing the later hits is almost impossible with the current hitbox changes to it. If you SDI the first hit properly, you can escape after SDi'ing a few of the later hits too. I think the first hit should have its SDI lowered, and the later hits SDI increased substantially.

 

[Magus420]

Someone needs to look at this move in frame advance and tell me which hit is which. Logically, the 4 dmg/0.00x SDI hit would be the 1st hit (otherwise the attack would do a ridiculous amount of dmg I would think), but what you are describing is the opposite almost.

 

[shanus]

Here is the pac to make the edits on: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a99ad2b8c7a06f936e7203eb873681291fb42f937acdd688b8eada0a1ae8665a

[Ness] Side-B (Strong Hit): [1x Size; 4 Dmg; 80->0 KBG; 30 BKB; 80°]
First hit
6604501E 05050000
04001E05 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

[Ness] Side-B (Weak Hit A): [1x Size; 2 Dmg; 30->20 KBG; 10->20 BKB; 68°->80°]
-Significantly harder to SDI out on first hit, easier on later hits
66021E0A 05044001
02141405 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

[Ness] Side-B (Weak Hit B): [1x Size; 1 Dmg; 30->20 KBG; 10->20 BKB; 68°->100°]
-Significantly harder to SDI out on first hit, easier on later hits
66011E0A 05044001
01141405 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Can you place this hitbox data into the pac and then remove it? Also, can you raise the SDI capacity on the 2 and 1 damage hit?


Also, remove these from your GCT:

[Ness] U/D-Smash (Hitbox A): [1x Size; 4 Dmg; 100->0 KBG; 0->50 BKB; 110°->340°; Slip Element]
-(Downsmash) windup hit, KBG to 0 from 100, BKB to 50 from 0, angle to 348 from 110
49046400 0006E000
04003208 01540000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

[Ness] D-Smash (Hitbox B): [1x Size; 13 Dmg; 60 KBG; 90->60 BKB; 55°->25°]
-(Downsmash) swing hit, BKB to 60 from 80, angle to 25 from 55
490D3C5A 00037002
0D3C3C00 00190000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

 

[Revven]

Yeah, Side B in the current Ness build is freakin' ********.

 

[Magus420]

Side-b in the current build is fine, because I fixed it this morning.

 

[Revven]

Side-b in the current build is fine, because I fixed it this morning.

Gahh, if we had known, then we would've used it. Oh well.

 

[CT Chia]

in the current build side b is a lil lame since u practically cant SDI out of it at all. u can contral DI'ability on a move right? also the wind box on the down B is kind of ridiculous. its giving ness an amazing defensive option on such a offensive type character as it is. i would say fair is fine if you take out down B wind and perhaps make the overB slightly more DI'able