Ness: Official Character Discussion

[Veril]

Down-b wind is really cool though, whereas fair is exactly what we don't want in a move (self-comboing forever and overwhelmingly internally imbalanced). I don't understand how NOT FIXING THE ACTUAL PROBLEM will fix Ness.

The SDIability of pk-fire should be boosted. I think we can all agree on that. Its way too hard to SDI out of given all of the options Ness has if it lands.

 

[CT Chia]

i just played ness (lol i didnt play him yet b4 that comment) and the down B wind thing is a lot differ than it was described to me. idk, it just feels rly awkward and tacked on. it just doesnt look or feel like it should be part of the move. but yea tone down fair just a tad lol

 

[Veril]

The down-b thing is f***ing amazingly good, I haven't seen anyone really use it to its capacity yet. Its pretty absurd as an edgeguard, its completely safe and deadly at any % if performed correctly.

Fair is just stupid. I'm upset something that ******** got into a public release.

 

[shanus]

The down-b thing is f***ing amazingly good, I haven't seen anyone really use it to its capacity yet. Its pretty absurd as an edgeguard, its completely safe and deadly at any % if performed correctly.

Fair is just stupid. I'm upset something that ******** got into a public release.

Two important things. The wind can be cancelled by a dash start or pivot.

Fair ive posted test values for the longest time, and yet almost no1 has provided any feedback despite saying its broken.

Posting its broken is just dull repitition.

Edit:

Yet again, here you go (test it, or stfu):

Download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ztne5jum51m

Simple explanation:
Fair linking hits are now susceptible to higher SDI and are slightly less disjointed, the final hit also has more knockback with damage scaling and slightly higher base knockback & slightly less disjointed

PKT1: Overall larger endlag, but less than vBrawl


Detailed changes:

Fair: X-Offset 8.6 from 9.6 (both hits + GFX), Linking hits SDI capacity to 1.0 from .8, Final hit BKB to 70 from 65, KBG to 75 from 60

PKT1: Endlag at 125% from 500%

set to 125% instead of 500%

 

[goodoldganon]

I still think Si-deb is way too hard to SDI out of or does way too much damage. I think a damage nerf on Si-deb would be better then making it harder to get out of, but either way I think side-b is too good.

Tested that pac shanus and I liked the new F-air. It can still combo at low percents if people aren't playing right but it's not so stupid as to just auto-link. It's still really really good probably one of his best aerials.

 

[Veril]

Fair will continue to be ******** until these changes are actually put into effect (ie. released). I can't support it since I haven't tested the .pac yet, but I trust GoG's opinion here. We should decide ASAP whether or not to do this. I'll look into its self-comboability sometime tonight.

 

[g-regulate]

if i 3 stock capes ness, can we just stop this "ness is broken" charade and stop updating new versions?

 

[Veril]

No. We can stop the "Ness is broken" thing because Ness is getting fixed.

 

[The Cape]

if i 3 stock capes ness, can we just stop this "ness is broken" charade and stop updating new versions?

I doubt it. According to Shanus my Ness is complete *** anyway; so its not like it will matter if you do so. You have to beat him (which isnt hard) then maybe he will listen.

 

[shanus]

I doubt it. According to Shanus my Ness is complete *** anyway; so its not like it will matter if you do so. You have to beat him (which isnt hard) then maybe he will listen.

First off, I've posted Ness nerfs for the longest time, in which the feedback has been by and large positive from those who tested them. Clearly, I don't listen.

On to the next topic at hand:

Your mario and ivy are excellent, but your ness is not anywhere near the level you play them.

Its not hard to admit you don't play a character well. I suck *** as mario as a prime example.

You have way too much pride to take any criticism, and you are pissed at me for criticizing you and I know you have been for a while. its funny that you wouldn't even IM me about it, either.

Also, we went 3-2 in our friendlies (you being the 3) with you absolutely assraping my olimar but not my fox or lucario.

 

[The Cape]

You have only seen videos of my Ness and not actually played it, but you can make decisions upon that and just say that it outright sucks.

JCaesar and MD/VA who have actually played my Ness understand the skill of the character even though it doesnt look flashy, but you dismiss their opinions as if they do not exist. Your lack of being polite and respectful to others is what makes me be the same to you. JCaesar is an excellent player as is most of the people who have commented on the skill behind my Ness, but you dismiss them offhandedly. You yourself never travel and play the same one or two people at your home, but insist that you know more about what is going on that people who actually attend fests, go to tournaments, and play new people all the time. Your continued disrespect is something that is definetly going to crush this project in the end as you act entirely too cocky, but have appeared at only one event near the major players (NY and MD/VA) in about the last year, but continue to distribute your opinions about the skills of players that you have not played.

I return the same attitudes and predujices that you prescribe right back to you until you actually attend a tournament and play these people (or myself after all these months) to get an accurate idea of the talent of the players you decide to judge upon from the videos. Ness himself does not have to be flashy to be good, but I shouldnt have to tell you that if you are really "all that and a bag of chips" like you pretend to be.

Also, I dont talk to you on AIM because you are abrasive and insulting, especially lately, you never have the interest in talking anyway, and lately I have just seen the continuing downward spiral of this project and the respect I used to have for you on a daily basis.

AS for this:

First off, I've posted Ness nerfs for the longest time, in which the feedback has been by and large positive from those who tested them. Clearly, I don't listen.

I stated months ago (back in early September) that Ness was completely ridiculous. The backroom, yourself included, refused to change the set or fix these things and you continued to defend Ness as not over powered until just recently. Yet now you are willing to fix these things but you do it within a week of a tournament which is a huge middle finger to the entire community. What if you were finally to fix Fox so he doesnt free auto combo into his KO moves this close to the tourney? We would have Fox mains throwing fits inside and out. The entire problem with the WBR is that you guys dont think about ****.

 

[shanus]

You are right, as I have been especially abrasive towards you, and that is unacceptable. I admit my mistake towards Ness back then as I plain and simple did not abuse him to his largest potential and was wrong. I can't say much else aside from the fact that I have been providing fixes to the community for the past few weeks for testing to further solidify the fact that I made a mistake.

And while I haven't played your Ness, I can still point out mistakes in your playstyle just as you can verbally critique my skill without playing me as of late. Your ness had room for improvement, and since then, has most likely has improved. There were many situations you could have capitalized further in your videos, and you did not so I pointed them out. My original intention was not to be an ***, but out of frustration from the method as to how you attempted to prove your point, I acted disrespectful to you which is both immature and pointless.

However, I am not the sole player in this as you definitely fueled part of the fire with plenty of snide remarks in return, often with more aggression than my original posts. My main complaint which irked me by your posts is that more often than not you pick up a character for a few games and claim to know a character better than a dedicated main, and it gets a bit frustrating to deal with. I realized I did that in the past, and tried to step back and be far less active in the past sets.

Regardless, calling each other ***** won't do much of anything to fix the issues with this game, and I would like to put these differences behind us and move forward with improving what is fundamentally wrong with the current set.

 

[Veril]

This sort of drama really doesn't belong here.

Cape, you were right about Ness. Congrats "hands Cape a cookie". Talking about the "downward spiral" of this project is practically a cliche now. Its bs though and p***es me off more than anything else around here. A critical mass of Ness-hate had to build up before it overwhelmed the desire to keep a consistent set. You can say, "I told you so" if you want. More than that is unnecessary.

 

[g-regulate]

I feel that proving any characters "brokenness" is best determined in a large tournament setting, or a series of tournament settings, followed by discussion and evaluation. Since the number of brawl plus tournaments has been few to date, changes that occur from version to version are mostly educated speculation. I've felt, in almost all the versions, that whoever plays the best virtually always wins, regardless of character.