Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...

[DarkVision]

Sigh... I give up for today.

But you can't truly believe Ness doesn't have a chance?

Waluigi has a chance, that doesn't mean ****.

I personally believe he's not coming back...

 

[vesperview]

Sigh... I give up for today.

But you can't truly believe Ness doesn't have a chance?

Give up? You didn't even start, please you'll do a great favor to this thread by leaving, is amazing the kind of people that agree with DeuceBlade, sarcastic spammers with no good arguments, I think they are a perfect fit for each other.

Now I'm expecting the typical:

Vesp as much as you try you can't prove anything Sakurai didn't deconfirm Ness he still has a chance

 

[mas369]

Vesp.

So. Is. Mario.

Retro Look. Oh my god. You have no acceptance of your idiocy in thinking that new characters are greater than old.

By retro character, he means a character that apeared in only one or two old (10 years or more) game and never had another character who replaced them in further instalments. Lucas replaced Ness in Mother 3, so Ness probaly won't return, while no one replaced Pit, so that is why he is in.

Edit: Crap. Arguments over. Wish I could have gotten something useful in on this debate.

 

[Circus]

Circus, I actually have nothing against Lucas, I think he's pretty cool, it was just a point to make against Vesp.

Fair enough.

I do believe Ness still has a small chance. I'm just saying that Vesp and other Ness haters need to be more open minded toward his possibility. He believes that evrything new should replace the old, and that's just dumb.

I agree. Though, if you view Lucas the way I do (I know you don't, but I know several other people do), then Ness becomes obsolete. From my point of view, Lucas offers everything Ness did, but with a better look and more of a backstory. With no real personality or storyline in his game to back him up, I have trouble grasping how people could be attached enough to Ness to be legitimately upset over his absence (assuming he didn't he make it).

From my point of view, Lucas provides everything Ness used to and more, so what use do I have for Ness? Aside from a different batch of A moves, what does Ness offer? What does he have that causes people to WANT him back? I just have trouble wrapping my brain around it. Though I guess I should just accept that people have different tastes in characters.

I kow not everyone can be liked by everybody, but there's no reason to deny Ness' chances.

Nowadays, deconfirmations are thrown around like periods. And I'm really not a fan. Other than a pokeball or AT update, I don't accept anything as a deconfirmation, solely for the fact that it's TOTALLY Sakurai's style to do exactly the opposite of what everyone expects. The fact that I see no reason for Ness to be in the game is exactly what makes his profile appearing on the Dojo such a possibility. It would be a very Sakurai thing to do.

 

[Nosebleed101]

I know what retro is.

But, you're saying Ness can't exist because Licas replaced him in a later game?

See: Marth, Roy. Hmm. Marth and Roy were in the same Smash game.

Vesp. Stop acting like you're a hardass. You don't know half of what you're talking about.

 

[RDK]

Are DeuceBlade and Nosebleed still bawwwing like little girls? It's kind of amusing.

 

[vesperview]

I know what retro is.

But, you're saying Ness can't exist because Licas replaced him in a later game?

See: Marth, Roy. Hmm. Marth and Roy were in the same Smash game.

Roy didn't even have a game before Melee and he was there to make the Fire Emblem series break through to America, Marth is the established Lord of the series, with more than one appearance, therefore he is a given in terms of Fire Emblem reps, not to mention he has an upcoming game for the DS, again not comparable to Ness and Lucas in ANY way.

Vesp. Stop acting like you're a hardass. You don't know half of what you're talking about.

Says the guy who doesn't even know what a retro character is, please, you're a pathetic n00b.

 

[Nosebleed101]

Right, don't know what retro is.

Jumpman, Lance and Bill from Contra, Pong. Pac-Man.

Come on. Give me some credit. I meant that Mario technically is retro himself being around since the 80s

 

[vesperview]

Right, don't know what retro is.

Jumpman, Lance and Bill from Contra, Pong. Pac-Man.

Come on. Give me some credit. I meant that Mario technically is retro himself being around since the 80s

No one with a brain would consider Mario among the retro characters in the Smash series like Pit, Ice Climbers or Mr Game and Watch who haven't had a game in more than a decade.

 

[courte]

ill believe it on feb. 13th have fun trying to prove your crackpot theories until then

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

Wow. I really gotta say, this topic has no real purpose, it's just a flame war... If you are going to make a topic, make it something that has at least a little bit of value in it. This is just a topic to draw in all the Ness fans and bash them down, wtf? You Lucas>Ness people just love to drag out your ignorance on and on, don't you? I seriously wonder who started this huge flame war, yeah, it's not even a debate anymore. It's just "You're and emo," "You fail," "Ness is out," "Ness has a chance." Why draw in something you dislike and continue to fuse your anger? I have no idea what you people have going in your minds, but I realized that you're really wasting your time trying to convince Ness lovers to actually give up their 'hope' on Ness's return. So um... give me a reason to proceed any further?

 

[DekuBoy]

Why argue any longer? There are other things to talk about.

 

[antimatter]

do you guys want to end up like..... R.I.D.L.E.Y.? Dun Dun Dun!

 

[Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man]

do you guys want to end up like..... R.I.D.L.E.Y.? Dun Dun Dun!

And what the **** is that supposed to mean? Also DarkDeoxys do you even know what the word ignorance means?

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Sheesh... is this still going on?

I see a LOT of people have trouble with the "up until now" statement.
But I'm sorry to burst your bubbles... DeuceBlade is right that the above statement can be read in two ways.

Saying he's out is assuming things we haven't been told precisely.
Saying he's in is also assuming... with one humongous difference.

People that believe he's out state it like it's a fact.
While people that believe he'll be in state like it's a chance.

Now then... if this thread would have people bashing eachother with "he's in", "he's out", then of course both sides would have as much truth.

But right now the people that believe Ness is in only say it's a chance, not a fact.
Something the people that believe he's out are seriously lacking.

And with that, I have to say that the people that believe in Ness' return are closer to the truth.

Taking assumptions for granted and slapping "fact" over it doesn't make it any more true.

 

[courte]

Sheesh... is this still going on?

I see a LOT of people have trouble with the "up until now" statement.
But I'm sorry to burst your bubbles... DeuceBlade is right that the above statement can be read in two ways.

Saying he's out is assuming things we haven't been told precisely.
Saying he's in is also assuming... with one humongous difference.

People that believe he's out state it like it's a fact.
While people that believe he'll be in state like it's a chance.

Now then... if this thread would have people bashing eachother with "he's in", "he's out", then of course both sides would have as much truth.

But right now the people that believe Ness is in only say it's a chance, not a fact.
Something the people that believe he's out are seriously lacking.

And with that, I have to say that the people that believe in Ness' return are closer to the truth.

Taking assumptions for granted and slapping "fact" over it doesn't make it any more true.

now you can't really go around generalizing everyone in this thread i believe that there are certain people that won't take any side in trying to debate over something we have no power in--those people will simply wait for the game to tell us with it's own facts

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

And what the **** is that supposed to mean? Also DarkDeoxys do you even know what the word ignorance means?

Sheesh... is this still going on?

I see a LOT of people have trouble with the "up until now" statement.
But I'm sorry to burst your bubbles... DeuceBlade is right that the above statement can be read in two ways.

Saying he's out is assuming things we haven't been told precisely.
Saying he's in is also assuming... with one humongous difference.

People that believe he's out state it like it's a fact.
While people that believe he'll be in state like it's a chance.

Now then... if this thread would have people bashing eachother with "he's in", "he's out", then of course both sides would have as much truth.

But right now the people that believe Ness is in only say it's a chance, not a fact.
Something the people that believe he's out are seriously lacking.

And with that, I have to say that the people that believe in Ness' return are closer to the truth.

Taking assumptions for granted and slapping "fact" over it doesn't make it any more true.

I truely DON'T have to explain more than he just did. Have you seen what tje last 10 pages were about (I'm sure there's more, but I was only here for the last part of it)? It's more about DeuceBlade super positive about Ness and you guys trying to kill him (some of you). I would be the ignorant if I said I knew what you were doing.

now you can't really go around generalizing everyone in this thread i believe that there are certain people that won't take any side in trying to debate over something we have no power in--those people will simply wait for the game to tell us with it's own facts

Yes, there are those people, but the two main categories are the "Ness is out" and "Ness is in"

 

[DeuceBlade]

If hoping Ness will be in brawl is wrong, then I don't wanna be right

Keep hope for

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

If hoping Ness will be in brawl is wrong, then I don't wanna be right

Keep hope for

I'm not saying your hope for Ness is wrong, but when you come on an Anti-Ness thread with horrible arguments and logic, then yes, my friend, that is wrong!

 

[AdmantNESS]

Anti-Ness thread? This was a Ness support topic until someone obnoxiously changed the title.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Anti-Ness thread? This was a Ness support topic until someone obnoxiously changed the title.

Too bad. No one here has any good arguments for Ness to stay.

 

[DeuceBlade]

I'm not saying your hope for Ness is wrong, but when you come on an Anti-Ness thread with horrible arguments and logic, then yes, my friend, that is wrong!

Thats your opinion, and this thread doesn't say Ness supporters can't post here

for brawl, keep the hope!

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

That's exactly the point. We don't need good arguements, because it's already true that Ness has a chance to stay in Brawl, and that's all we need. By what you said right now, it just makes you look as if you want start a fight with someone, as if you're going to accomplish something by yelling at Ness supporters.

What's funny is that you Anti-Ness people THINK you are "winning" this little arguement, sorry to say that your good arguements are only as good as your opinions. If you're to say that we've bad arguements, we can say you've bad arguements.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

That's exactly the point. We don't need good arguements, because it's already true that Ness has a chance to stay in Brawl, and that's all we need. By what you said right now, it just makes you look as if you want start a fight with someone, as if you're going to accomplish something by yelling at Ness supporters.

What's funny is that you Anti-Ness people THINK you are "winning" this little arguement, sorry to say that your good arguements are only as good as your opinions. If you're to say that we've bad arguements, we can say you've bad arguements.

We don't have bad arguments. Our arguments are not opinions but facts that you, Ness Supporters, don't seem to understand.
FACTS AND NOT OPINIONS:
1. Ness was supposed to be REPLACED by Lucas in Melee. Replaced does mean cut from the game.
2. Sakurai's statement "Up until now" is something that is moreso against Ness than for him considering number 1
3. Mother 3 is taking precedence over the other Mother games

None of these are opinions but facts. As far as I'm concerned anything has a chance in Brawl, and you telling me that's all you need in an argument, that's truly failure. If you apply that to everything then we'd have a corrupted character discussion thread.

 

[AdmantNESS]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=128811&page=8

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=128811&page=8

How about you copy and paste what you want to argue or show me.

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

We don't have bad arguments. Our arguments are not opinions but facts that you, Ness Supporters, don't seem to understand.
FACTS AND NOT OPINIONS:
1. Ness was supposed to be REPLACED by Lucas in Melee. Replaced does mean cut from the game.
2. Sakurai's statement "Up until now" is something that is moreso against Ness than for him considering number 1
3. Mother 3 is taking precedence over the other Mother games

None of these are opinions but facts. As far as I'm concerned anything has a chance in Brawl, and you telling me that's all you need in an argument, that's truly failure. If you apply that to everything then we'd have a corrupted character discussion thread.

Was SUPPOSED to replace Ness? Did Lucas REPLACE Ness? NO. You TWIST the facts into another "fact." Other people have already showed the example of "Up until now" in other phrases. And IMO, having Ness ALONG with Lucas would be a better choice than cutting something out

And no, I already said, we don't need arguements, kay? Any number above 0 is a chance, and that chance is our hope more Ness, and that would've stayed like that, until something incites us to change that. Truly, NOTHING is a failure or success right now, because nothing is proven.

 

[vesperview]

Was SUPPOSED to replace Ness? Did Lucas REPLACE Ness? NO. You TWIST the facts into another "fact." Other people have already showed the example of "Up until now" in other phrases. And IMO, having Ness ALONG with Lucas would be a better choice than cutting something out

Do you even know why Ness didn't replace Lucas in the end? You sure don't and IMO and most people's opinion one striped shirt, bat wielding psychic kid is enough, Mother deserves better representation than having two semi clones.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Was SUPPOSED to replace Ness? Did Lucas REPLACE Ness? NO. You TWIST the facts into another "fact." Other people have already showed the example of "Up until now" in other phrases. And IMO, having Ness ALONG with Lucas would be a better choice than cutting something out

And no, I already said, we don't need arguements, kay? Any number above 0 is a chance, and that chance is our hope more Ness, and that would've stayed like that, until something incites us to change that. Truly, NOTHING is a failure or success right now, because nothing is proven.

I didn't twist ****, you just can't except the facts. He was supposed to, but couldn't b/c of a Mother 3 delay, not really hard to understand. When things don't go as planned it's not Sakurai's fault now is it? More people support Claus for a second rep if any from the Mother series. You THINK you don't need arguments. Anybody could very well say that enter name/thing/idea/etc here has a chance that is above zero and say that that's all you need, when no it isn't all you need.

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

Do you even know why Ness didn't replace Lucas in the end? You sure don't and IMO and most people's opinion one striped shirt, bat wielding psychic kid is enough, Mother deserves better representation than having two semi clones.

I'm assuming you meant "Lucas replaced Ness." Care to tell me why then?

I didn't twist ****, you just can't except the facts. He was supposed to, but couldn't b/c of a Mother 3 delay, not really hard to understand. When things don't go as planned it's not Sakurai's fault now is it? More people support Claus for a
second rep if any from the Mother series. You THINK you don't need arguments. Anybody could very well say that enter name/thing/idea/etc here has a chance that is above zero and say that that's all you need, when no it isn't all you need.

YOU sir, twisting Sakurai's words with the up until now thing, is what happened. And that's also what really started this huge arguement. And I can't except it, because excepting something is impossible Ok, so it was because of the delay, point taken. As long as Ness was the lead for ANY game, he has a chance to be in. It's YOUR arguements that causes me to use "he has a chance to be in and that's all." I'm pretty sure no one is saying Waluigi has ? > 0 chance to make it, so he has a chance. When this "arguement" is used against something like this topic, it has a different meaning, because it's being compared to another arguement. The point you aren't getting is that I'm not trying to convince you Ness is going to get it, or maybe I am, I'm just stating the fact that I believe he is going to get it. I'm not trying to prove anything, therefore, I don't need arguements. Which leads back to the point that this topic is valueless. I just want to ask, is this the same scenario:

Mario is the star of all of his games, with Luigi rarely ever showing up as Mario's equal, or rarely ever at all, yet he is in.

Ness lead a couple of the Mother games, and then Lucas lead the 3rd. Why isn't Ness in?

 

[vesperview]

Ness lead a couple of the Mother games, and then Lucas lead the 3rd. Why isn't Ness in?

Ness led a couple? He only led one just like Lucas, Ness is not as iconic or important to the Mother series, since most of his following is due to the Smash series outside Japan, who's to say that Lucas won't garner such following? and comparing them to Mario and Luigi is beyond ridiculous and doesn't help your argument in the slightest.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

YOU sir, twisting Sakurai's words with the up until now thing, is what happened. And that's also what really started this huge arguement. And I can't except it, because excepting something is impossible Ok, so it was because of the delay, point taken. As long as Ness was the lead for ANY game, he has a chance to be in. It's YOUR arguements that causes me to use "he has a chance to be in and that's all." I'm pretty sure no one is saying Waluigi has ? > 0 chance to make it, so he has a chance. When this "arguement" is used against something like this topic, it has a different meaning, because it's being compared to another arguement. The point you aren't getting is that I'm not trying to convince you Ness is going to get it, or maybe I am, I'm just stating the fact that I believe he is going to get it. I'm not trying to prove anything, therefore, I don't need arguements. Which leads back to the point that this topic is valueless. I just want to ask, is this the same scenario:

Mario is the star of all of his games, with Luigi rarely ever showing up as Mario's equal, or rarely ever at all, yet he is in.

Ness lead a couple of the Mother games, and then Lucas lead the 3rd. Why isn't Ness in?

Just b/c someone leads a game means they have a chance in Brawl. Waluigi is irrelevant to this argument and he also has another thing that most other characters have in common. Nothing poiting to deconfirmation, unlike characters like Ness! Mario and Luigi are icons and you can't compare them to Ness. Luigi although in the background has appeared in a lot more games than Ness and Luigi is also important to the series. Luigi actually does outshine Mario in some of their games.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

This whole argument just started because someone jumped to conclusions on one single sentence. It's kinda sad that people consider those conclusions as facts. What's even worse is the overzealous defense of these so called 'facts'.

The same thing happened when someone jumped to conclusions on:

- No clones being in Brawl
- More female characters coming in Brawl
- More villain characters coming in Brawl

Seriously guys, give it a break... you're just overanalyzing things.

 

[DeuceBlade]

When someone says Sakurai used Until Now for something besides the Lucas profile update, they try to change up the words and make it leans towards their idea of what "until now" means.

These are the same things we get accused of.

I don't see how hard it is to realize Ness still has a chance

for brawl, please.

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

Ness led a couple? He only led one just like Lucas, Ness is not as iconic or important to the Mother series, since most of his following is due to the Smash series outside Japan, who's to say that Lucas won't garner such following? and comparing them to Mario and Luigi is beyond ridiculous and doesn't help your argument in the slightest.

Oh, did he really. I was thinking that he lef the first and second, my bad. There's also a reason why I said I was unsure about the situation.

I'm going to leave this topic to Kirby Kong's post and see how you guys react to that :D

 

[Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man]

When someone says Sakurai used Until Now for something besides the Lucas profile update, they try to change up the words and make it leans towards their idea of what "until now" means.

These are the same things we get accused of.

I don't see how hard it is to realize Ness still has a chance

for brawl, please.

He still has a minuscule chance. But what? It means the same in every update, until now means up until now, how is that hard to understand?

This whole argument just started because someone jumped to conclusions on one single sentence. It's kinda sad that people consider those conclusions as facts. What's even worse is the overzealous defense of these so called 'facts'.

The same thing happened when someone jumped to conclusions on:

- No clones being in Brawl
- More female characters coming in Brawl
- More villain characters coming in Brawl

Seriously guys, give it a break... you're just overanalyzing things.

1. No clones for brawl - What you mean like when Sakurai said he didn't want clones in brawl?
2. More female characters for brawl - What you mean when he said he wanted more female characters
3. More villain characters in brawl - what you mean common sense and logic?

But I dont really see how you can overanalyze "Until now"... because... until now basically means until now.

 

[DeuceBlade]

He still has a minuscule chance. But what? It means the same in every update, until now means up until now, how is that hard to understand?



1. No clones for brawl - What you mean like when Sakurai said he didn't want clones in brawl?
2. More female characters for brawl - What you mean when he said he wanted more female characters
3. More villain characters in brawl - what you mean common sense and logic?

But I dont really see how you can overanalyze "Until now"... because... until now basically means until now.

Sakurai says until now handicap has been in the smash series.. it does not deconfirm handicap

Sakurai says until now ness has been in the smash series.. it does not deconfirm ness

See the pattern here?

 

[Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man]

"So until now, I’ve always made sure to include handicaps in each game in the series.

But, I began to think that there isn’t much thrill in just making yourself weaker, so I changed the system."

The "Until now" refers to how he did the handicaps, even though he didn't make it explicitly clear.

 

[DeuceBlade]

You could not get all of that information with just the first sentence alone, which proves that Handicap has not been deconfirmed by a vague sentence, just like Ness has yet to be deconfirmed by a vague sentence.

 

[courte]

He still has a minuscule chance. But what? It means the same in every update, until now means up until now, how is that hard to understand?



1. No clones for brawl - What you mean like when Sakurai said he didn't want clones in brawl?
2. More female characters for brawl - What you mean when he said he wanted more female characters
3. More villain characters in brawl - what you mean common sense and logic?

But I dont really see how you can overanalyze "Until now"... because... until now basically means until now.

he's right --im leaving
btw whoever changed the thread title is slightly responsible for basically saying "this is a flame thread" even if it was sarcastic or not, the message can be taken in anyway