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Ness is Awesome

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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Mar 5, 2012
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needs more ness pillaring, get on this run, i should be getting 4 stocked. lmao, also, inspite of there probably being better options out of a jab reset, can anyone deny the amazing feeling of landing a jab reset fsmash. its like "GET UP SO I CAN HIT YOU AGAIN"
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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17,679
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Spiral Mountain
I'm the least swag person in existence when it comes to non-Sheik punishment. So no. I don't get that feeling.

Unless it's something straight up ******** like PKT2 edgeguards.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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true, fsmash isnt exactly a sheik players favorite move ;) so i would imagine not. but coming from my character i would say that landing fsmashes is 10/10 pretty fun
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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master hand top tier stamina character. ness sucks everywhere.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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Hey.



Ness is pretty underplayed for such a cool(albeit bad) character
 

R:U:N

Smash Cadet
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Mar 5, 2012
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68
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Lawrenceville, NJ
You could make the same argument for any low tier, I suppose
For example I would love to play Bowser more if he weren't so bad
Popularity of a character is generally based more on how good the character is than how cool he is (hence the reason why every other player is a spacy main), it's only the idiots like me that pick their main solely based on that :awesome: It's not at all entirely one-sided of course, there are very few players that actually dislike their main, but play them because they're good.
Not to say that good characters aren't cool as well.
I love me some Falco.
And Marth. It's so satisfying having Marth's range when I'm so used to Ness' stub arms.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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Doc > luigi. But
More people play luigi.
And by underplayed I dont mean played as much as top tiers,for my money Roy isn't underplayed as much as the other crap tiers.
 

R:U:N

Smash Cadet
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Mar 5, 2012
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68
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I dunno, with Roy, there are like 5 solid Roy mains out there (or at least people who use Roy in tourneys), but I think more people play Ness as a friendlies character.
So it might just be that Ness is more popular for just playing around, and Roy is more popular in tourneys.
Actually, that might not be entirely true. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Ness mains out there that just don't really post on smashboards.
But I wouldn't call Roy underplayed mainly because why would I play this character when I can just play Marth :troll:
Also I kinda think Luigi is better than Doc, but it might just be because Vudu/Ka-Master/Eddie Mexico/etc. are amazing
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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Well, I agree that like mewtwo, many people just mess around with ness for fun, I still however do maintain that he is not popular as a character even with this small buff.

Doc is better, weeg is just played more because of the mario bros he is the funnest and most interesting, but doc is just better imo
 

Xebenkeck

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
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My Head
I think that is attributed to the fact that Ness has some unique features that he brings to the table, thus making him a "fun" character. The problem is they just don't offset his riduculous weaknesses.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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Spiral Mountain
He's neat and has unique movement

DJC combos are cool on paper, mediocre in practice but the cool factor is enticing

He looks fast so he tricks you into thinking he can play aggro

Once you get past that you realize he sucks so bad it's irreparable

So nobody wants to take him seriously even if everyone dabbles in him because he seems neat

Well, I guess Mofo and HBox think he's a real char...
 

Beautiful Death

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
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Dudechorage, AK
You guys have got to play SD Remix. Ness is RIDICULOUS in SD Remix.

He is waaaayyyyyy too fun.

Well I think Ness was really fun before but winning is cool too you know?

So now you have a character who is even MORE fun then before that can like win!

Also how do I do the ah nevermind I'll just spam dash attack and win
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
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I dislike SD Remix because it feels like it's being made similar to PM in that they're trying to make moves link specifically to others.

But Melee's entire combo system is largely organic. That's one of its defining features. Almost everything in the game has emerged as a result of nature.

Building it with BNBs in mind seems to go against what's made this game so cool and unique to play for years. Morever, I feel that approach is dangerous in general.

Also, every character is Falcon. Or Falcon fused with another character.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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KK your post makes no sense to me honestly because we have RARELY messed with attack angles and power on combo moves.

and it seems to me by what you say, you 'd be against making any attack a better combo starter. which, imo, is ********

and everyone is not even close to being falcon.
 

R:U:N

Smash Cadet
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Mar 5, 2012
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So ROM5 enlightened me on a few things about ness
1. Utilt is even more godly than i thought. LOOK AT THIS HITBOX.
LOOK AT IT.

IT'S HUGE.
Also nair too.
2. PK Flash mindgames are the best mindgames
3. Getting YYG on people who don't know what it is is fun :awesome::awesome::awesome:

ROM5 was a lot of fun though, definitely helped me to improve a ton
Also to ensure that this post actually contributes something to this board, anyone wanna talk the marth and sheik mus? I feel like they might be ness' worst.

In terms of marth, i find it very difficult to not get outspaced (although part of that may just be my horrible spacing) because, obviously marth has a sword while ness has stub arms, but also because marth has a superior dd, wd, and dash speed (this is coming from absolutely nothing but my johns about how slow and short-ranged ness is, so please correct me if i'm wrong)
when i play this mu, i try to stay right at the tip of marth's range, look for a punishable commitment from him, wd/dash back, run back in for punish
however, this doesn't always work because it calls for the marth to really over-commit in order to have an adequate window of time to punish him.
I'm wondering if it's smarter to play this mu more offensively or defensively?
If you play offensively, you might be able to keep yourself within a range where you can actually touch marth, but you could end up over-committing and getting punished, or marth could simply play more defensively and not let you get close.
If you play defensively, you'll pretty much get chased around the stage by someone faster than you.
And they have a sword.
Thoughts?
(Also almost forgot about the sheik mu, I just have one question: Is it possible to DI out of the chainthrow?)
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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wouldnt staying at the tip invite getting faired to infinity, I would think getting up in his face is better, if he hits you he'll smack you with a weak hilt move, just dont get grabbed.
 

The Irish Mafia

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cping you to Mute at a MDZ tourney
So I played Mofo again last night. He's still the best ness in the world, rofl. Though he doesn't get much faster, his ness does get more creative and I took a lot of mental notes. This is that.
Mofo does predictive utilts vs spacies dair and wins. it's a viable move to mix up with dash attack/ things that force people to jump. The cooldown isn't too fun but it doesn't reduce it's viability too bad, outside of making it hard to combo out of at low percents.
His main spacing tools are fair and dash attack. bair, utilt and grab are all punitive once they've committed. He admits dash attack is kind of a gamble, but he gets a lot of launches out of it, and tech chases really well with the first 2 hits. if he's spacing vs someone who jumps a lot, he throws out more midair djc dair which he doesn't fastfall (I'll get into the djc dair autocancel technology later). If the dair connects on the ground, he'll take his free 2nd hit, but if it connects in the air he'll land and mash dtilt. Once they leave the range by sding away, they're at perfect range for a tipper fsmash. Even if he doesn't dtilt them eighty times like he sometimes does, he generally gets a good ~50% off a random hit.
He beat me one game of fox vs ness by mashing out a super fast djc bair oos when I was pressuring his shield. (Our matches were dead even unless one of us busted out the turbo tech skill. Turbo ness is just as scary as turbo fox.) I wanna say I did fullhop nair but I think it might have been a shorthop. Point is, he reacted light-speed and despite getting hit by the pressure, won the game by betting on a good trade. It felt kinda like peach nair oos, how you're expecting to get hit but the point is to get your high-knockback move out.
His fullhop fair -> double jump fair soaks up airspace, and he tends to weave it so the first fair goes above the platform, then he falls to the back of it and dj fairs under it. This is similar to a jiggz' aerial weave, but I'm sure Hbox does a different one. Mofo said he has to learn from Hbox's air control. His dj choices around platforms are phenomenal, he usually puts himself far enough under the platform that he can wavedash away by the time I catch up or punish me if I try to go on top of the platform.
To that point, the real magic of his ness is the djc bair. He uses ness' aerial mobility pre-fastfall every time he jumps, but uses double jump to do the following: 1) cover horisontal space/under platforms, 2) to reassess his momentum after his initial jump, and 3) to activate ness' fastfall (usually into autocancel dair) at unexpected times during the jump. The 2nd point is what makes his pressure game so insane. His jump away -> dj back -> djc low (sometimes even shield stabbing) bair is really fast and pretty much impossible for a human being to shield grab. On top of that, he can fullhop really high and still hit the dj->fastfall fast enough to shield stab my feet.
He missed a lot of uthrow combos. I think some of that is rust, but I'm pretty sure they're just inconsistent.


also, I second the falcon comment, lol. I said that exact thing after playing p:m for 30 minutes this weekend. Every character is supposed to have the "fun" apsects of melee, which we immediately associate with tech chasing into a launcher and then doing a 5 hit offstage combo. So every character has a tech chaseable throw, a launcher, and aerials designed / tools for offstage comboing.
At FC, I told strong bad I thought P:M DK was overpowered. In DK's case, every move creates the opportunity to do the same zero to death you did last stock. It feels like every launcher guarantees a followup or a ****ton of advantage. I see the grab combos assuring death more often than they assure a large chunk of percent, or even the opportunity for escape before the KO move.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
Joined
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Could you please do well with him so that I can John about him being broken?
That would be great thanks :D
 

Roche_CL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
410
In marth's matchup:
I think its similar to luigi, although your WD is shorter.
Marth can spam Fairs, and DD to punish, getting near him is a real pain in the ***.
Fair kinda looses bad against marth, dash attack is too risky and CCable.
Maybe run towards -> shield, and WD Oos would be a nice option but its not garaunteed, worst punish is a grab, and marth's grab game against ness isn't that good if you DI well (unless he Uthrows you and you can't do **** against him in the air, but they don't know that :x).
Other option is waiting him to make a mistake, mixing full hop DJC Dairs, DD, shielding and stuff, and waiting for the mistake.

Overall, marth is a pain in the ***, you can't spam cause ness spam is too bad, his range is too good and Ness's is too bad.

Only good thing is you can Tipper Fsmash when he tries to sweetspot the ledge, its pretty easy and he needs the perfect sweetspot to not take the hit.

Pro-tip: enemy in >50%, you grab them near the ledge and facing towards the ledge, people tend to Bthrow for more knockback or Fthrow to try and edgeguard. I prefer Dthrow messing their DI and getting a free Bair (since they will DI towards the stage, and Dthrow will leave them above you and comboable)
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
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Mar 5, 2012
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Whats a head boom? Is that one of those things that they use to capture sound on movie sets, but strapped to your head?
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
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1. He sucks
2. His limbs be mad short
3. His projectiles are bad and a waste of bmove slots
4. He is low range/ priority
5. He is bad
 
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