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[jpwakor]

Would u consider DACUS's(boost smashes)
an iportant skill or could u guys do without them

 

[da K.I.D.]

depends on your character.

sonic, jigglypuff, and CF can do with out them.

but its kind of essential for chars like sheik, link and snake

and other characters like falco and wolf, its useful but not a complete necessity

 

[teluoborg]

How do you do that instant pivot grab bull**** SamuraiPanda tried to teach me before?

Two easy steps :
1-Dash backwards
2-Simultaneously point the C stick forward and press the grab button (works with the analog stick too)
The timing between 1 and 2 is just like a dash dance.


My turn :
When I press and hold shield before landing my char will do an airdodge then a shield.
But I know that there's a window between the airdodge and the shield where I'm totally vulnerable.
The question is when does this window start ?

 

[ndayday]

It starts when you touch the ground, and I believe it ends when the landing animation ends.

 

[SCOTU]

it ends when the landing animation ends, or when you interrupt the landing animation with the shield, whichever comes first (normally the IASA, unless you haven't reset your special landing flag and are stuck with BSL). If you "soft landed" (i.e. landed from shorter than your full jump and didn't fast fall) then you're vulnerable for 1 frame. If you hard landed (i.e. fast fell or landed from higher than your full jump), then the vulnerability is 3 frames long. These numbers increase to 17F and 29F respectively with BSL, so make sure to clear your special landing flag properly.

 

[teluoborg]

Half a second, **** you BSL.

Thanks a lot.

 

[jpwakor]

strats against snake anyone?

 

[SCOTU]

that's a character specific question that should be asked in your character's board.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

What rules are their set against planking? Is there a guide around here about planking?

 

[zeldspazz]

I believe theres a ledge grab limit per match to minimize it. Isnt it around 50? Im just guessing off the top of my head.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I believe theres a ledge grab limit per match to minimize it. Isnt it around 50? Im just guessing off the top of my head.

I'll just add that that rule usually only takes effect if the match ended by timeout.

 

[_Phloat_]

^ Yep. There are many variations of planking rules, I would suggest you ask the local tournament organizer rather than smashboards.

 

[infomon]

Just know that the SBR Recommended Rule List says nothing about ledge-grab rules, or any attempt whatsoever to limit planking. There are only a few TOs / (regions?) which use such rules.

In particular, many people see them as extremely misguided and preemptive, since "planking" has not been proven to be broken or degenerate (or even useful in many matchups).

 

[trolito_chiquito]

Hey some respond me i have a question with Link how to do this 1:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnxF88npB0&feature=channel

AA-CROUCH-AA-CROUCH or what sorry for my english or some respond me in spanish or englishh

 

[ndayday]

Yes, that's right.

Also, next time use the Link Q&A, as that's for character specific things.

 

[SCOTU]

just Know That The Sbr Recommended Rule List Says nothing About Ledge-grab Rules, Or Any Attempt Whatsoever To Limit Planking. There Are Only A Few Tos / (regions?) Which Use Such Rules.

In Particular, Many People See Them As Extremely Misguided And Preemptive, Since "planking" Has Not Been Proven To Be Broken Or Degenerate (or Even useful In Many Matchups).

^^ THIS ^^ THIS ^^ THIS ^^ THIS ^^ THIS ^^<notallcaps>

 

[mountain_tiger]

If it were up to me, I'd make it so that you can't grab the edge more than three times in a row, and if they do then the offender gets disqualified. Period.

There's probably some major flaw in that idea somewhere...

 

[ndayday]

There's probably some major flaw in that idea somewhere...

Not to bash you, but the in a row method doesn't work too well. Just imagine this;

Character A knocks Character B off stage.
Character B grabs ledge, gets on stage. (1)
Character A knocks Character B off stage.
Character B grabs ledge, gets on stage. (2)
Character A knocks Character B off stage.
Character B grabs ledge, gets on stage. (3)

Character B = DQ'd.

Of course, you could mean in quick succession, in which I could see what you mean.

 

[mountain_tiger]

For clarification, I mean in a row. Getting back onto the stage would reset the counter back to zero.

 

[professor mgw]

n00b question: What does SBR stand for again?

 

[Melomaniacal]

n00b question: What does SBR stand for again?

Smash Back Room.

Naw, it's Super Banana Rampage.

 

[Grahf]

Question:

Anyone know any Gamecube controller mod guides out there? I want to switch the Z Button with the Y button and No...I won't be using this at a tournament seeing how I've never gone to one. Just for me at home.

I found a video on Youtube of a kid doing it but the jerk ******* doesn't respond to me when I ask.

 

[Boofy!]

^ assuming your playing brawl.. you could just edit your controls

 

[Grahf]

Melee....which is making me wonder why I posted in this Q&A sticky to begin with <_<;

 

[infomon]

For clarification, I mean in a row. Getting back onto the stage would reset the counter back to zero.

This would be absolutely horrible.

1. Every tournament match will require a moderator to watch for this
2. You're completely changing the game; eliminating a ton of perfectly valid, innocent situations.

Let's say you're recovering to the stage, and grab the edge, while I am waiting on the stage. Because of your rule, you are now trapped. You can't stay on the edge because my Dtilt will hit you there. So I know you're going to either get back on the stage (get-up attack, ledge-hop, standing get-up, get-up dodge-roll; or hop off the edge and get yourself back onto the stage somehow). All of those options mean you pass through the same zone, and I only need to attack that space when you execute any of those options.

All the get-up moves are slow and follow determined paths; all perfectly punishable. Your saving grace is that you can hop off the edge to make it look like you're going to get back on afterwards, thus baiting a preemptive attack from me, which you can then get past to return to the stage. Effectively, hopping off the edge is the only situation in which you're still giving yourself any further options.

But now you've ruined that option. So I know exactly when and where you're going to be. Suddenly, stage control is way more important than it was before, and we're effectively playing a different game.

And this is all for the sake of "controlling" a tactic which is perfectly valid, and NOT breaking competitive play. That's total nonsense.

 

[mountain_tiger]

This would be absolutely horrible.

1. Every tournament match will require a moderator to watch for this
2. You're completely changing the game; eliminating a ton of perfectly valid, innocent situations.

Let's say you're recovering to the stage, and grab the edge, while I am waiting on the stage. Because of your rule, you are now trapped. You can't stay on the edge because my Dtilt will hit you there. So I know you're going to either get back on the stage (get-up attack, ledge-hop, standing get-up, get-up dodge-roll; or hop off the edge and get yourself back onto the stage somehow). All of those options mean you pass through the same zone, and I only need to attack that space when you execute any of those options.

All the get-up moves are slow and follow determined paths; all perfectly punishable. Your saving grace is that you can hop off the edge to make it look like you're going to get back on afterwards, thus baiting a preemptive attack from me, which you can then get past to return to the stage. Effectively, hopping off the edge is the only situation in which you're still giving yourself any further options.

But now you've ruined that option. So I know exactly when and where you're going to be. Suddenly, stage control is way more important than it was before, and we're effectively playing a different game.

And this is all for the sake of "controlling" a tactic which is perfectly valid, and NOT breaking competitive play. That's total nonsense.

I would much, much rather have the ruleset with limited ledge options than with excessive planking any day. Besides, the way you say it, it implies that planking is the only safe option from the ledge.

Think about it. In Melee, you could consistently bomb walls with Peach to stall as long as you wanted. The TOs saw this was a problem and banned it. Likewise, in Brawl, you can't pick Sonic and use Homing Attack on the stage over and over to stall. Why shouldn't the same apply for planking?

 

[infomon]

I would much, much rather have the ruleset with limited ledge options than with excessive planking any day.

So? I might prefer the game with Wario removed, because I don't like Wario. But Wario's part of the game, and I can't legitimately challenge you at this game if I say "but no Warios, he's too cheap!"

There's nothing wrong with planking. Rather, nothing has been proven wrong with planking. Do you really believe it's an unbeatable tactic? Then how come it's not winning you tournaments?? I don't think I've ever seen it from M2K, Ally, ADHD, and they're at the top. If you're going to impose strict limitations on the way we're allowed to play this game, and require all tournament matches to be moderated, then you better darn well have some proof that you're removing an element of the game which prevents competition from happening. And not "I just don't like it". If you don't like Brawl for what it truly is, then don't play Brawl.

That being said, I think planking is totally beatable in most matchups. Tipping the scales on some matchups is simply the face of a changing metagame; okay, maybe Falco's not good against MK? D3 isn't good against Ice Climbers, but too bad that's brawl.

Besides, the way you say it, it implies that planking is the only safe option from the ledge.

No, that's not what I said at all.

I said having the option of regrabbing the ledge is an extremely important aspect of being able to make a safe recovery. There's been nothing about stalling, camping, or being ahead in stock/% in this discussion. So you're unintentionally rebalancing the game, to limit something which isn't broken -- that's dumb. Besides, I think your rule would just make MK even better; is that what you're going for?

Think about it. In Melee, you could consistently bomb walls with Peach to stall as long as you wanted. The TOs saw this was a problem and banned it. Likewise, in Brawl, you can't pick Sonic and use Homing Attack on the stage over and over to stall. Why shouldn't the same apply for planking?

That's why stalling is banned. Planking isn't stalling; it's a legitimate, beatable fighting tactic. Stalling means your character is untouchable. A stalling ban is warranted, discrete, and enforceable. "Planking" has none of these properties, and isn't even well-defined.

 

[Browny]

oh no u didnt infzy

Stalling does not make sonic untouchable at all. it puts him in a VERY favourable position where the only way the enemy can hit you is if they put themselves at risk. Sounds very similar to a certain tactic we all know and love? Lets not forget homing stall can be completely countered by certain characters, much like planking can.

Dont get me wrong im not advocating the use of Sonics homing stall. but it is the EXACT same as MK's plaking. I would like to see how you can honestly differentiate the two by a significant margin to render one technique completely legit and one completely banned.

To convince me youre gonna need textbook definitions of what is banworthy, and how each case does/doesnt break those rules. Theres no room for subjectivity here, I dont want to hear about 'no intention of fighting', you cant make that call.

 

[SCOTU]

There is a difference between stalling in a place where the other character cannot reach (or cannot reach and make it back, or cannot reach and make it back if the other player does something simple) and making you hard to reach without taking some percent.

 

[Browny]

No? I mean a textbook definition. Does it state in the rules that 'any technique which makes it hard to recover for the enemy is banned'?

and the other character CAN reach them. Plenty of characters can stop sonics homing stall (Snake, MK, DDD, Wario, Olimar, Lucario, Ness, Lucas, Pit, TL, pikachu, ROB, Samus, probably more) which is more than which can deal with planking safely. I dont remember any rule about the number of characters able to deal with a technique making it banned or not.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No? I mean a textbook definition. Does it state in the rules that 'any technique which makes it hard to recover for the enemy is banned'?

and the other character CAN reach them. Plenty of characters can stop sonics homing stall, probably more than which can deal with planking. I dont remember any rule about the number of characters able to deal with a technique making it banned or not.

The criteria is, "does it undeniably end or prevent gameplay?"


I'm gonna start with this, there are characters that it certainly doesn't, for example, jiggs, probably MK, and I'm sure there are a few others.


But, for the characters that cannot attack him at all while he's there, or cannot attack him without sacrificing a stock, then it undeniably ends or prevents gameplay, and is banned in those match-ups.



On the ledge MK is just in a good position, he's not permanently invincible against any character, he's force to react and can be baited.


On the other hand, sonic is completely safe while homing stalling in some match-ups.


Though, doesn't spotdodging mess with it.

 

[Browny]

Aint gonna do it.

Because hes completely safe in some matchups, therefore its banworthy? Last time I checked, that counts as a character advantage in the matchup. If a character isnt equipped to deal with a certain tactic (which only works on a few stages and is very easily counterpicked against, both in stages and character) I see absolutely no reason why that should warrant a ban.

Preventing gameplay? You cant make that call. I call it 'strategic re-positioning of oneself in a timely manner.' Oh wow its the same as planking! If this was a freeze glitch which rendered the other character completely helpless, yeah that might count. Both players are in full control of their characters. It sure doesnt end gameplay, but its only preventing gameplay if the character who cant deal with it refuses to try and stop it. It can be stopped... its just risky. Oh wow, its the same as planking again! how joyous

 

[adumbrodeus]

Aint gonna do it.

Because hes completely safe in some matchups, therefore its banworthy? Last time I checked, that counts as a character advantage in the matchup. If a character isnt equipped to deal with a certain tactic (which only works on a few stages and is very easily counterpicked against, both in stages and character) I see absolutely no reason why that should warrant a ban.

Preventing gameplay? You cant make that call. I call it 'strategic re-positioning of oneself in a timely manner.' Oh wow its the same as planking! If this was a freeze glitch which rendered the other character completely helpless, yeah that might count. Both players are in full control of their characters. It sure doesnt end gameplay, but its only preventing gameplay if the character who cant deal with it refuses to try and stop it. It can be stopped... its just risky. Oh wow, its the same as planking again! how joyous

Yes, completely safe, meaning he can infinitely stall with absolutely no consequence to his win.

You seem to be missing the entire point of a ban, if at any point, it becomes impossible for you to attack your opponent or remove him from the position of invincibility, then it falls under the criteria of undeniably ending or preventing gameplay, because you are unable to change the outcome of the match (the only points where it being literally impossible to change the outcome of the match is acceptable is if you've won or a technique you use makes it impossible for your opponent to lose).


Take a step back from characters that can actually attack sonic while he's there, let's talk about the characters who can't. As soon as sonic is ahead in percents, they've lost the match. Congrats, stalling is achieved just as surely as if you IDC'd the entire time.


Now let's move on to characters that can attack him but automatically sacrifice a stock. Whether or not they can kill with the attack, the situation is the same (except sonic needs to be ahead in order to do this), it is impossible for you to effect the outcome of the match once he stalls.


Now then, the last category, characters that can freely attack sonic and recover. This is not stalling, as with planking, it's putting yourself in a favorable tactical position.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Making a move legal in half of matches and making it illegal in the other have is stupid.

I agree with everythin DJB has said up to this point

 

[infomon]

oh no u didnt infzy

Stalling does not make sonic untouchable at all. it puts him in a VERY favourable position where the only way the enemy can hit you is if they put themselves at risk. Sounds very similar to a certain tactic we all know and love? Lets not forget homing stall can be completely countered by certain characters, much like planking can.

Dont get me wrong im not advocating the use of Sonics homing stall. but it is the EXACT same as MK's plaking. I would like to see how you can honestly differentiate the two by a significant margin to render one technique completely legit and one completely banned.

To convince me youre gonna need textbook definitions of what is banworthy, and how each case does/doesnt break those rules. Theres no room for subjectivity here, I dont want to hear about 'no intention of fighting', you cant make that call.

Wait wait wait wait wait.

I said nothing of Sonic's homing stall, intentionally, because it's trickier than ppl make it out to be.

Sonic's "homing stall" typically isn't stalling. Stalling is banned, Homing Attack under the stage is not.

HA can be used to stall on a small handful of stages: FD (if you're under the very centre middle part), ..... hmmm I can't even think of any others right now, I'm sleepy I'm sure they exist. But on Smashville, Lylat, etc. it cannot stall. The reason has nothing to do with spotdodging, but because if you do NOT spotdodge, Sonic will follow you under the stage, so the time and place he goes is under you (the opponent)'s control to get him back into your bloodthirsty hands.

(I'm just saying this for the non-Sonic mains in this thread.)

I can't think of a stage where Sonic can homing-attack far enough from the opponent that he can't be dragged back to the stage by the opponent simply coming into range of the HA to lock-on (without danger of the HA actually hitting), but where (virtually) any opponent is actually capable of approaching from the under the stage.

That is, I don't think HA can be used to stall unless it can really stall. Planking is not stalling because you're not putting yourself in a situation in which you can't be hit. If HA can be hit then it's not stalling. Please tell me the stages where you think I'm wrong.

 

[da K.I.D.]

will that logic keep me from getting DQd at a tournament for doing it on lylat?

 

[infomon]

It should, unless I'm on crack. I can't re-test this right now to make absolutely sure I didn't mess up the testing I did on this months ago, but if you can.... go HA repeatedly under Lylat, and have the opponent stand above you and walk to one of the sides. See if Sonic will follow him or not.

If you're not stalling and your TO is DQ'ing you for stalling, then you should stop going to their tournaments, because obviously that TO doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.

 

[Browny]

Yes, completely safe, meaning he can infinitely stall with absolutely no consequence to his win.

And this is an issue, how? Why is it a problem if he has a tactic which is extremely potent in some matchups? What, because its not fair to the opponent? boohoo, pick a character who can deal with it? What do you say to a falcon main whos trying to beat an MK planking on FD?

You seem to be missing the entire point of a ban, if at any point, it becomes impossible for you to attack your opponent or remove him from the position of invincibility, then it falls under the criteria of undeniably ending or preventing gameplay, because you are unable to change the outcome of the match (the only points where it being literally impossible to change the outcome of the match is acceptable is if you've won or a technique you use makes it impossible for your opponent to lose).

It is possible to attack him. Every single character can do it. whether they can return to the stage is another question. Dont throw around this word 'impossible' because it most DEFINITELY is possible.

Now answer me this. What happens if it is DDD vs DK. DK can space effectively and maybe not get grabbed 3 times so he can alter the match from the start. But what happens if its even stock standings, and DK gets grabbed on the final stock both at 0%? he has absolutely no influence on the outcome of the match, cant do anything, auto GG. Now Sonic vs someone who cant hit him while under the stage without dying. this technique only works if Sonic gets a % lead. as long as the other player doesnt let sonic get a % lead, the opponent is able to easily change the outcome of the match since obviously using this technique is pointless. So you cant tell me the enemy has no control over it, while a DK mainer has complete control over getting ICG'd?

Sure the feasbility of never letting Sonic get a % lead is lower, and only needs to occur once in a match but thats not an issue. Is there a ban criteria stating that any tactic used must not keep a player in a favourable position for the entire match? Remember, everyone can hit him there.

Take a step back from characters that can actually attack sonic while he's there, let's talk about the characters who can't. As soon as sonic is ahead in percents, they've lost the match. Congrats, stalling is achieved just as surely as if you IDC'd the entire time.

No. IDC renders gameplay impossible for the enemy, thus falling under your 'preventing gameplay' reasoning. homing stall doesnt. Sonic is still sitting there, anyone can hit him. hell almost everyone can stagespike him for a KO if they time an attack perfectly.

Now let's move on to characters that can attack him but automatically sacrifice a stock. Whether or not they can kill with the attack, the situation is the same (except sonic needs to be ahead in order to do this), it is impossible for you to effect the outcome of the match once he stalls.

NO IT ISNT. ITS JUST VERY DIFFICULT.

 

[BSP]

How do you perform the instant ledge grab? Like, I see sonics run off the stage at full speed and immediately grab the ledge, so how do you do it?

 

[SCOTU]

run off the edge, fast fall, hold towards the stage.