NC-Echo's Olimar guide *New videos added

[NC-Echo]

Awesome =)
Two more questions, one serious one not. As the saying goes each answer only leads to more questions... Anyway, are these players able to be grabbed despite their invincibility frames? I can't imagine so, as that would suggest you could grab a player invincible still from recently being KOed, but then your marth grab explanation and my understanding of ledge grabbing invincibility frames don't match. Its likely my understanding is not correct, I've never done it myself, but I thought invincibility frames started as soon as someone grabbed the ledge. That invincibility frames and the game determining you have grabbed the ledge started in the exact same instant. I am inclined to believe your marth explanation though, so clarification from anyone who knows the ledge invincibility frame data would be awesome.

Second, like I said nothing important, but I gotta ask, were you researching this before I asked about it?


-True

Ok so about the invincibility: I will need to look into that more. Maybe my explanation is off; I'll check it out.

As for the second question. No I hadn't been researching that. I had noticed it happening in matches but I guess I never thought to test it.

True, I like the questions you ask, they are always insightful. Anytime you have anything to ask, feel free to ask away because the questions are, one making my guide more complete and two giving us all a greater understanding on Olimar.


About the guide: I apologize about the lack of updates as of late. I have been pretty bogged down with school work and what little spare time I had was going to playing and not updating. The good news is I have learned a lot over the past couple weeks (I think you will be able to tell once I put some new videos up). Some big updates will be coming soon, so bare with me and stay patient. Thanks for the support.

Recently updated

 

[cooldude123]

Yay! An update!! Whoo hoo!!!

*gives Echo tasty cookies*

 

[Marilink]

Awesome thread, Echo. I like the damage chart. Great videos, too.

I'll definitely be checking back for updates when I can.

 

[kafke]

I like the new updates Looks a lot cleaner.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

Nice guide. I wish all the others had that layout...

 

[Piratey_Critter]

According to the OP the dair is a spike.

It isn't always one...

It often hits sideways too. Does anyone know why?

 

[NC-Echo]

According to the OP the dair is a spike.

It isn't always one...

It often hits sideways too. Does anyone know why?

It only spikes with red, yellow or blue pikmin if I'm not mistaken and it also only spikes if you hit with the right part of the move. To reliably spike make sure you have the right color, try to be center above them and hit just shy of the tip (range wise) of the move.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Piratey Critter: Edited, Echo beat me too it, with a more complete answer none the less =P

Echo I'm liking the format work you did, this guide is already much more organized and easily read than most SSBM guides. I'm sure as the guide becomes more filled in it'll work even better, its hard to know how a formatting is exactly going to play out before you have all the parts. Keep up the good work, just a week now and I'll be actually able to help contribute, not just ask questions, though I'm glad they've been helpful =)


-True

 

[Fautor Animus]

I had a question, is it possible to throw a pikmin mid-air or something, and then use the whistle to bring it back mid-arch? I only ask because I feel like it could beef up his almost infinite repertoire of mindgames.

 

[NC-Echo]

I had a question, is it possible to throw a pikmin mid-air or something, and then use the whistle to bring it back mid-arch? I only ask because I feel like it could beef up his almost infinite repertoire of mindgames.

Yes it is possible, though I haven't actually tried the tactic your talking about so I can't speak about its usefulness.

 

[Fautor Animus]

Thank you -Echo-!
I'd also like to take this time to say, your Olimar is a lot smarter than most of the other ones out there. I really like it. Keep up the great work!

 

[snowbonez]

Here's something about Meta Knight. He's very hard to face, a very bad matchup for Olimar. The Pikmin don't stick because of the multiple hits attacks MK has. Aiming to throw Pikmin at MK is difficult, and once Pikmin ARE on MK, he shakes them off easy. Not to mention to repeated spamming of the Golden Tornado. All in all, I've seen that Olimar is GREAT for heavier and slower characters.

 

[PikminFTW]

Excellent guide, thanks Echo for making this.
Also, yeah, any fast characters that can pressure him are bad matchups for Olimar...

 

[NC-Echo]

Thanks for the info guys but its not really an issue of knowledge rather one of time. My last midterm is tomorrow. I will start work again soon. I also plain to get some videos up this week.

 

[kingofping4]

I asked in another thread, but got no answer. So I'll ask here

Someone said that you can use the ^B up to three times in the air as long as you hit the opponent with the first two. Is this true?

Second, if it is true, can you ^B to hit an edgeguarding opponent and then ^B again to tether? Assuming you have enough pikmin for chain length?

 

[TrueRedemption]

The problem with this is if your close enough to do multiple UpB attacks, your usually also close enough to either throw a purple pikmin (hits opponent off ledge) and recover, or do an aerial attack to move the opponent and recover. If you check out the video thread and watch a few Olimar videos you'll definitely see this attempted multiple times unsuccessfully. Though if anyone was to suddenly figure it out, odds are this guide would be one of the first places to find it =)


Also Echo, I'm sure your busy enough, but the Mods did some work last night it seems and now we have more Brawl boards. Of note there is an online specific board, 1p specific, but most interesting to me, and I'm guessing you as well, is a new forum for brawl technical/competative stuff, found here: http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=181 My skimming before class didn't show a lot, but of note is the new shield system post, once your up to date with what you already know getting it down figuring out the finer points of what Gimpy mentions would be awesome. Also of note is the dash shielding, not a wavedash or anything like that, but certainly seems useful. Unfortunately I fear it may be very useful against a defensive olimar, the shield is enough to reduce latch usefullness, and the increased speed is the best control + speed approach i've seen yet. Just a heads up.


-True

 

[kingofping4]

I've watched some of the Olimar videos, and I haven't seen a double pikmin chain attempted even once. I've seen plenty of times when the chain misses because of invincibility frames, and plenty where it knocks the hanging guy off the edge, but I haven't seen anyone do a second chain after that.

Sorry to keep bringing up the same thing over and over, but as soon as I read that you could do multiple chains this was the first thing that came to mind. I wish I had the game so I could contribute to threads like this

 

[TrueRedemption]

Its ok, really, I'll find a video of it now since I've got some time. The biggest thing though is when I see it, its pretty low because thats as quickly as they can do it due to lag. I'm not positive, but I'm petty sure that UpB has more lag when it hits than when it misses. Because of this you can use it 3 times missing, but only once MAYBE twice if you hit something eg. ledge guarding opponent. In the videos I'm talking about above, Olimar attempts once, hits the ledge guarder, but then can't UpB again until he is so low that the pikmin chain, sometimes even near a full 6 pikmin long, is not quite long enough to reach the ledge.


-True

 

[NC-Echo]

I've watched some of the Olimar videos, and I haven't seen a double pikmin chain attempted even once. I've seen plenty of times when the chain misses because of invincibility frames, and plenty where it knocks the hanging guy off the edge, but I haven't seen anyone do a second chain after that.

Sorry to keep bringing up the same thing over and over, but as soon as I read that you could do multiple chains this was the first thing that came to mind. I wish I had the game so I could contribute to threads like this

You can only U-B once in the air regardless of whether it hits someone.

True,

Yea I'll need to peruse that forum however the things in particular you mentioned my friends and I have known about it and their use of said tactics hasn't really hurt Olimar all that much, in my opinion

 

[kingofping4]

Yeah, Card pointed that out to me in the PT thread where I asked a similar question. I just misunderstood the info I read. Thanks for clearing it up guys.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Yeah sorry for the confusion kingofping, I wasn't completely correct at all and had mixed up situations where the player hadn't UpBed in the first place, and was thinking the late last ditch effort was a second UpB. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esfZyifWKSU of Romo vs Tobias shows exactly as Echo said, no matter what after a jumped UpB your falling, 1:48, 3:31 and 3:35 show it really well. Sorry for the trouble, but i suppose that clears that up at least.

Good to hear Echo, any use in Olimars shield dash? I realized that any significant videos of olimar already have been using the quick shield drop for more than grabbing, I believe you've been shielding -> USmash since your first videos weeks ago. Hope the last midterm is wrapping up well enough, my last is Thursday. Grats on the name change too.


-True

 

[Ultimatum479]

About Pikmin durability, what if it's a simple matter of rounding? Perhaps Pikmin don't round attack percentages and other characters do? Thus, an attack that does "1% damage" might actually be doing "0.2% damage", which rounds up to a 1% minimum for other characters but only does the flat 0.2% on Pikmin.

 

[Echo]

this thread... is so confusing to me...

>_>"

 

[ADHD]

Lol rounding damage? Anyway, can you pikmin pluck or pikmin throw cancel to stop the landing lag that olimar (has)? Or he does not have any landing lag? I cannot tell.

Most important: Can you throw pikmin straight up in the air? I saw someone do it once but it was a yellow pikmin?

 

[Milk]

I was wondering about something I discovered, I know everyone probably knows that the certain colored pikimin have a immunity to certain attacks, electric (yellow), fire ( red), and the blue pikimin don't drown in water. Getting to the point, is it true that pikimin can absorb element attacks? I was playing agaisnt my friend Simna (he mains Ness if you heard of him) and was able to get him off the edge, he then tried to make it back by Pk thundering himself, but before he did, I latched a yellow pikimin on him, and when he started to use pk thunder nothing came out and he fell to his doom.

My guess and I haven't tried it yet, is that it just negates the certain element attack, like for instance, I'm sure if i latched a red pikimin on Koopa ( aka Bowser) I believe that his fire breath wouldn't be able to come out, he would be in the animation of the attack but no fire. Sorry for those who have answered this or have gone over this a bunch of times, I just wanted to hear other opinions on this, for those who have the game. But I am certain that if the term "Absorb" is not right the certain colored pikimin just negate the certain element in a attack.

lol I wonder if a red pikimin was attached to cpt. Falcon and he did falcon punch it would just be a strong normal punch with no fire around it...that would be crazy 0_0...he be like " Normal Punch!!!"

 

[NC-Echo]

About Pikmin durability, what if it's a simple matter of rounding? Perhaps Pikmin don't round attack percentages and other characters do? Thus, an attack that does "1% damage" might actually be doing "0.2% damage", which rounds up to a 1% minimum for other characters but only does the flat 0.2% on Pikmin.

I suppose that is a possibility but there is not really any way to verify that one way or the other.

 

[Damax]

blue pikmin's back throw can kill. 150%
purple pikmin's up throw can kill. 130-140%

variable with the stages you play. and opponent's weight.

 

[NC-Echo]

blue pikmin's back throw can kill. 150%
purple pikmin's up throw can kill. 130-140%

variable with the stages you play. and opponent's weight.

Thanks for the info but given that its variable with the stage, the character and DI, its not really that useful.

 

[ADHD]

Hey echo could you answer my question please?

 

[NC-Echo]

Lol rounding damage? Anyway, can you pikmin pluck or pikmin throw cancel to stop the landing lag that olimar (has)? Or he does not have any landing lag? I cannot tell.

He has some landing lag on his aerials, his D-air for instance, but no you cannot cancel the lag with pikmin pluck or pikmin throw

Most important: Can you throw pikmin straight up in the air? I saw someone do it once but it was a yellow pikmin?

That was probably his U-smash. What you described sounds exactly like U-smash.

 

[Damax]

Thanks for the info but given that its variable with the stage, the character and DI, its not really that useful.

most of the time, pikmin and olimar can down throw to up smash to up air. you can avoid it at higher percentage by DIing up. So if you happen to catch him with that purple pikmin, you got a freekill as he'll mostly DI up to avoid the nasty down throw to up smash.

I do not play pikmin my friend does, so I'm not sure if the combo really works with all pikmin at such a percentage. I gave you some hint though haha.

 

[ADHD]

One more question, I never see anyone do this at all when they have such a great opportunity! Why don't ppl just throw the pikmin straight up in the air for mind games, and to just basically hit someone above them. Instead I see EVERYONE using olimar just wait for them to fall.

 

[NC-Echo]

One more question, I never see anyone do this at all when they have such a great opportunity! Why don't ppl just throw the pikmin straight up in the air for mind games, and to just basically hit someone above them. Instead I see EVERYONE using olimar just wait for them to fall.

Probably because it then reminds your opponent of your ridiculously good U-smash which might remind them how much they need to avoid it.

 

[Replacement100]

G'day Echo - I love your Olimar, you're the most skilled one I have seen (especially with avoiding being edgehogged (against Metaknight) etc.) You have also been able to beat a Marth, which is from what I can see, Olimar's worst matchup. Good on you ^_^

The super armour frames are extremely helpful, from what I see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNeXeqlGe6E - go to 1:50.
Basically, as Olimar fumbles to attempt to grab a purple Pikmin to be thrown, Rob attempts to aerial him, but to no avail. In theory, against a character like Ike, this could potentially be a huge portion of Olimar's strategy. ^_^

A video that illustrates the super-armour frames better, and doesn't do them by accident as the last video does is this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgJUsofOe-I
Chances are you've seen it before ^_^

Another good video to illustrate another feature of Olimar is this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqfcA3a5fPo - go to about 0:25
With most tether characters, you can climb down the chain (Olimar get go, then chained again, not sure) but basically, this allows you to be considered on the ledge, but you're not subjected to attacks (which was why people rolled off the edge in Melee when edgehogging) With Olimar, this is good, as you can be on the edge, except that no Foxes will be plowing into you (as if they do, well, they can't recover... and chances are you will.)

Hopefully I'm right with this stuff, and hopefully you incorporate it into your guide.

~ Replacement

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Hey Echo, been watching your Youtube vids like, well, everyone else on this board, obv. =)

Sorry for the noob question, but I had to wonder how long it took you to get as good as you are with Oli? I assume alot of the time you spent with Melee helped your skills to grow quickly in Brawl, right?

I was never that great in Melee, but I hope to make it up this time with the pikmins....

 

[Maliceschaos]

does this refer to the edgeguard. Somehow oli recovered while nana was still on. It's around 20 secs or so
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WlPF9n70GPs

 

[Hardcorenesser]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE KIRBY'S ****ING COUNTER? I NEED THAT **** BEFORE THE GAMESTOP TOURNAMENT!!!!




please...

 

[Hardcorenesser]

does this refer to the edgeguard. Somehow oli recovered while nana was still on. It's around 20 secs or so
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WlPF9n70GPs

that's cuz nana can't edgehog. they made it so both popo and nana can be on the ledge at the same time.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

In a lot of the videos I have combos being emphasized in the Olimar game, and I was wondering if smash/Ariel focused fighting style can still be used effectvily.

EDIT: With the exception of the F-B spam of course

 

[Fautor Animus]

I can tell you that while it's somewhat hard, and requires that you predict the enemy DI, you can quite usually pull of u-air "combos", and then follow up with his d-air or f-air, depending on your position.

Also, a question for echo, i was wondering if you could help me find a decent way to pull of Oli's U-air. I seem to have some trouble getting my enemy to a place where I can u-air them dead.