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NC-Echo's Olimar guide *New videos added

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GenG

Smash Lord
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Nice % chart, it sure will come in handy.

Do you know if yellow pikmin have more reach for smashes?
 

TrueRedemption

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Mar 26, 2007
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I like the organized layout approach you have, effort and thought process appreciated.

A small description of each move while covered elsewhere and basic is really a good standard part of any guide. Simple yet concise explanations of the move, lag etc, followed by your impression of it/suggested uses, really help a player grasp a character from a guide.

My question, its apparently been tested and proven that diminishing returns does not apply to throwing pikmin. If this is just speculative the test would be appreciated, but moreover, does this in fact apply to all pikmin related moves? If your unsure what I mean check out this thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141977
It would be a nice to know if pikmin are truly exempt from this, as to date it seems to be the most influential aspect of advanced character play, accounting for and working around the interesting system in place.


Thanks,

-True
 

IllidR

Smash Champion
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"Pikmen" Forever!
Very comprehensive and nice guide! Are the whites really immune to electricity? I've never heard that from anyone else, maybe because they didn't bother to test it out. But if so then this irks me a little bit, seems like Sakurai gave Olimar's white Pikmin a resistance just to make them seem more useful, immunity to dark moves would have been better.
 

kafke

Smash Apprentice
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Awesome chart! I like the guide but, you need to change the way you laid out the pikmin properties. It looks like it says yellow are immune to fire XD
 
Joined
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As kafke pointed out, you should probably make the pikmin properties a bit more understandable. So IllidR, it isn't saying that whites are immune to electricity. It says the yellows are immune to electricity. The immunities are listed below the respective color.
 

Keltzon

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In ur base, killin ur doods
My friend owns the game now, and I main Ollimar. Echo, if you disagree with anything I have written, feel free to tell me. We all need to get better! ^_^ Here's what I've learned so far that perhaps can be thrown into the guide:

Red

-Can kill at medium percentages. Very useful against fast characters
-Best if used with F-smash

Yellow

-Best Pikmen, in my opinion. High damage, slightly lighter than other pikmen
-Best used in ALL SITUATIONS, especially F-smash and all air moves

Blue

-I noticed a higher knockback against low percentages early game.
-Can be thrown faster/farther than other Pikmen
-Best used with forward-B against recovering opponents

White

-Poisons opponents when attached
-Best used with forward-B
-OMFG DAMAGE FTW WHEN THROWN LOLZ
-Thrown very far, very fast
-Dies quickly *tear*

Purple

-Heaviest Pikmen, and, honestly, the biggest waste of time
-Very little range when thrown or used to smash
-Can kill at low percentages
-Very high knockback
-High damage (if you can hit with him...)
-Best if used with shield grab and possible recovery


MOVESET:

In general, his moves are great if only for one reason: They are quick, and he is not actually attacking the person with his own body. Not many people are used to this sort of attack yet, especially those advanced SSBM players who aren't quite used to "items" in battle. For now, the pikmen are surprises attached to Ollimar's short arms. Use them well ^-^

F-air/ B-air

-Ollimar swings the pikmen that's next in line similar to throwing something, but he doesn't let go. If a red or yellow pikmen is used, the timing doesn't have to be perfect: The opponent will take damage and usually both characters will be knocked back.

D-air/ U-air

USE THESE MOVES! They have high priority, and if used with a yellow pikmen, will do good damage and usually excellent knockback, not to mention the extreme possibility for a KO.

B-throw

-Best throw in my opinion. He simply tosses them aside, and depending on the pikmen, takes a base amount of damage and knockback. It's funny if you can grab with the purple pikmen ^-^

*In general, Ollimar's grabs are hard to do when moving. Keep in mind that his Pikmen do the grabbing, not Ollimar. Press the grab button BEFORE Ollimar gets to the opponent; otherwise, you will run right by them.

D-smash

-Best move for Ollimar
-Two pikmen shoot out from either side of Ollimar, who faces the screen and spreads out his arms
-Depending on the pikmen, opponents get hurt. A lot
-Fire and electricity is awesome with this move. Purple and white are terrible
-Use often. Has high priority and is a great kill move

U-smash

-One pikmen gets tossed up above Ollimar, not too far. Maybe half his height in length
-Purple is a good damage/KO pikmen in this case, but barely has any range. Red is best
-Used in combo with D-tilt

F-smash

-Red/Yellow best, followed by blue. White and purple not so good.
-Like the U-smash, a pikmen is thrown forward. If it misses, it falls to the ground, gets up, shakes quickly, and returns (unless destroyed by the opponent, which happens often) to the back of the line.
-Higher than average range

Jab 1/2

-Useless. Bad damage, no knockback...just...eeerrrgg...

B

-Pulls pikmen from ground. Apparently, certain pikmen appear more often in various floors. Haven't figured it out yet.

F-B

-Most useful move to SPAM

Forget the idea that pikmen are your friends. You should NEVER be standing still with this character. If you are doing nothing, USE THIS MOVE and launch pikmen at your opponent. If nothing else, it's a mind game technique that must be abused.

If your opponent is watching your pikmen order or count, don't worry. Spamming pikmen only confuses your opponent, and who knows? Perhaps they try and charge you, and a random purple pikmen comes out that they didn't see before. Combining this with neutral-B is an excellent and annoying combo.

D-B

I hardly use this move, quite frankly. The only time I can see myself using it is against edge-hogers, when I look for that purple pikmen. But seriously: It's a lot harder to see the order of pikmen than you think. You move all the time, change directions...I'd rather be spamming F-B lol

EDIT: I just learned that there is super-armor in this move!! I must playtest some more, but it appears that this move can be one of the best for Ollimar if used correctly in tournaments.

U-B

-Comes out very fast, does decent damage
-Can actually be a kill move at high percentages
-Good knockback
-White is pretty good for some reason in this move lol

I've killed Ike and ROB and a few other characters fairly easy because of this move. It's super fast, does damage, and not many people are used to sideways attacks yet. I use it often to irritate people. Did I mention that they can't kill your pikmen when you use this move? Huge range, good damage, without Ollimar being anywhere near them? HA.



I haven't actually thought about using purple to attack edge hoggers. In fact, I've noticed that a few times people have tried it, I end up hitting them with U-B. Maybe it's a range thing? I'll have to look into that. Echo, if you could, check out Ollimar's recovery a bit more, it's where I seem to have problems. Can you actually knock off an edge hog with U-B? I coulda sworn I did it a few times...


That's it for now. I won't be playing for another week or so...*goes into withdrawl*
 

NC-Echo

Smash Lord
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Thanks for the info. I'll look at it when I get out of class. However just so you know I already have a lot of info typed up (I just haven't put it online yet)so I may not use word for word what you posted. If I use any material within your post I will credit you in the guide. Thanks for the help.
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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278
Yeah good work Keltzon, each person adds a little of their own perspective to the multiple move sets posted in this forum. Its not complete but very nice to read/consider for those who won't get to play for another 3+ weeks still.

Any testing been done on the Olimar's diminishing returns? I find it interesting that SSBB's labeled technical heavy character may actually be the most capable of spamming the same moves.


-True
 

nyhustler208

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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very nice guide, this is the best one so far keep up the good work guys

*EDIT* is olimars Dair a spike or a meteor smash?and what is a Nair isnt it the same thing as U-air?
 

Proven

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Heh, your videos just showed up on my feed on Youtube and here you're already making a guide.

Quick question, the only thing left to really test on flower pikmin vs. leaf pikmin is if they have more health.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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Good stuff. Those matches are great, especially against proj. That dthrow-usmash-uair combo is beastly.
 

SmashBro99

Smash Champion
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Holy hell, this is VERY well done, thanks alot for this.
 

NC-Echo

Smash Lord
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very nice guide, this is the best one so far keep up the good work guys

*EDIT* is olimars Dair a spike or a meteor smash?and what is a Nair isnt it the same thing as U-air?
Thanks very much I'm glad people are liking it.

I'm pretty sure it's a spike but I will need to test.

N-air stands for Neutral air. You perform a Neutral air by pressing A in the air while not holding any direction on the control stick.
 

nyhustler208

Smash Journeyman
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Thanks very much I'm glad people are liking it.

I'm pretty sure it's a spike but I will need to test.

N-air stands for Neutral air. You perform a Neutral air by pressing A in the air while not holding any direction on the control stick.
o wow lol i feel stupid i never called it that i always just said Ab+A button
 

kafke

Smash Apprentice
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I like the vids :) I have another q about olimar. I don't see you using down b. Is it a necessity to use it in fighting? Out of what i watched there doesn't seem like enough time to organize and get the one you want and you just go with what is next. Is that intentional? or are you looking for a time to organize?
 

NC-Echo

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I like the vids :) I have another q about olimar. I don't see you using down b. Is it a necessity to use it in fighting? Out of what i watched there doesn't seem like enough time to organize and get the one you want and you just go with what is next. Is that intentional? or are you looking for a time to organize?
I generally just base my attacks and combos off of what pikmin is next (if I have the forethought. I still have a good bit of room to improve, however at this point everyone does.) instead of changing pikmin to do a specific move. I feel like if I were to change pikmin all the time just to get the optimal damage for a certain move than my play would be lose variance and I would be too slow and yea theres often just not time anyway.
 

kafke

Smash Apprentice
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ok thanks, I wondered because it would seem if you were fighting an elemental character (charazard, squirtle, ect.) you would switch to the more useful pikmin (red for charazard, blue for squirtle, ect.) That may or may not be the case. Switching would leave you open, and your just gonna have to use the others anyways.... and you can pluck pikmin fast, so it shouldn't be a prob.
 
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-Echo-, amazing guide. This is really helping to get me psyched for playing Olimar in Brawl (even though I've decided to play as Random for a least the first week, just so I can try everyone). On the downside, I want Brawl even more now...

You know, not knowing what purpose, if any, flowering plays with regard to the Pikmin is really starting to irk me. It's hard for me to believe the developers put that in merely as an aesthetic quality. Of course, it may have served some purpose such as improved damage, knockback, etc through some/most of development but that specific aspect of Pikmin & Olimar may have simply been pulled out.
 

MadraptorMan

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Feb 13, 2004
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Personally, I don't think Olimar needs any more help with damage and knockback (I'm the Metaknight player in Echo's first video, lol). His up smash is already ridiculously sick!
 

Projectiled

Smash Rookie
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Feb 15, 2008
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-You know, not knowing what purpose, if any, flowering plays with regard to the Pikmin is really starting to irk me. It's hard for me to believe the developers put that in merely as an aesthetic quality. Of course, it may have served some purpose such as improved damage, knockback, etc through some/most of development but that specific aspect of Pikmin & Olimar may have simply been pulled out.

I've gotta say my thoughts were with you on that one, but Echo and I have logged hours trying to find the tiniest difference between the types. Every time we thought we noticed a difference we'd later realize we were observing some other new phenomenon (such as the 1% armor anomaly).

A few quick points confirmed false concerning the issue:

-no variation in damage
-no variation in knockback
-no variation in average latch number
-no variation in durability
-no additional 'armor'
-no healing benefits (when we first noticed the 1% armor, we questioned if perhaps the process of upgrading to the new form reset the damage)
-no variation in range
-no variation in return/moving/flying speed
-no variation in attack lag or windup

I don't really want to make the claim that there is no variation, but as thoroughly as we experimented, we've noticed no difference. Even so, we're still open to new ideas, just be sure that suggestions have considered the above points and information already in the guide.
 

Super_Nostalgic

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I would think the most probable explination of pikmin not taking immediate damage from 1% attacks is so they wouldn't be completely ***** by some attacks such as Fox's laser spam.

A couple questions though, do the lasers stop the pikmin? or do they take no knockback from them? also, how much does people "fan-like" attacks do? like fox's (hold) A or pikachus? cause after a bit of dmg decay, dont they only do like 1% could pikmin be an effective way of ending the flurry of attacks?
 

Projectiled

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A couple points: neither fox's nor falco's lasers actually hit the pikmin as they walk away, and frankly it's pretty difficult to hit them with a laser; that said, there is a difference between killing and knocking away pikmin. The laser, or Ivysaur's Bullet Seed, or any other potentially 1% damage spammables will stun the pikmin just like any other attack; the difference is that the pikmin won't die, and thus return to olimar. Given that, there isn't a visible difference on an attack that does 2% or 1%, each hits the pikmin; only the former will kill a red pikmin after 5 hits, and the latter won't after 20+ hits.
 

Cinder

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Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
Hey I've got a question...a guy on another forum asked me, and since I don't have the game, I thought I'd double check...
Well I have a question about his "Plucking Pikmin". Does he pick them all up with one press of the buttons or does he have to constantly press it for each Pikkman?
You'll have to excuse his spelling XD...

And as I asked before, does the Up-B spike if a Purple Pikmin hits? I heard that here, and I don't know if it's true...
 

pesticide

Smash Lord
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Dec 24, 2006
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Switching mains? in CFL
And as I asked before, does the Up-B spike if a Purple Pikmin hits? I heard that here, and I don't know if it's true...
yea im curious about this. a question from me: can u change the order of pikmin when u are in the air?

because, if u can change the order in the air, and if what cinder heard is actually true, then i can see olimar getting a big boost in recovery.

example: diddy grabs the edge to edgeguard olimar. olimar notices this, changes the order of his pikmin in the air so that purple would be at the end of the rope, then uses his recovery. this way, diddy is knocked off or spiked off the edge, and olimar can survive.

*waits patienty for answers*
 

Blade Knight

Smash Ace
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Obviously diffrent pikmin are immune to diffrent things eg red and fire so this brings 2 questions. 1. on a stage like the summit before it rises back up a shallow pool of water is on the bottom floor will pikmin die from this and when olimar is swimming to the pikmin piggyback on olimar to stay safe? and 2. do R.O.B, Kirby, and the starfox characters projectiles (laser, final cutter, and blasters) and final smahes (in ROB and Starfox characters cases) have elements or not?
 

Blade Knight

Smash Ace
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Oct 13, 2007
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Thank you for your awnsers but arent they a bit vague? Well i guess ill have to test fo myself on Mar. 9
 
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