NC-Echo's Olimar guide *New videos added

[Cinder]

Thank you for your awnsers but arent they a bit vague? Well i guess ill have to test fo myself on Mar. 9

My apologies...I can explain a little better, methinks...

As for the swimming question, we know that any non-blue Pikmin that hits the water will drown (though I hear that you can whistle to pull 'em out )...so no, they won't piggyback...and idk about the Summit thing...

As for the laser question, in the first post, Echo gave us the amount of damage a Pikmin can take before dying...and that any attack that only does 1% damage has no effect...the aforementioned laser attacks are not elemental, and therefore, they will chip away at the Pikmin's health...

 

[Projectiled]

yea im curious about this. a question from me: can u change the order of pikmin when u are in the air?
*waits patienty for answers*

The resounding answer to this question is yes, you can change the order of your pikmin mid-air, and yes, this does improve olimar's recovering. As to the order, a quick whistle (down b) causes the order to move forward (check out the guide for more on this). For an example of this, check out the match between olimar and MK posted; at one point echo is sent off to the side, takes note the order of the pikmin, hits the whistle enough to bring a purple pikmin forward, side-b throws the pikmin to knock him off the edge, and then is able to tether. Not a spike per se, but a substantial blow, and the possibility for recovering (olimar only needs an empty ledge to latch).


As to another issue since posted, yes the lasers do not possess an elemental component, and thus their effect is always the same for each pikmin. A note: the space animals' reflectors appear to be electric, and thus do no damage to yellow pikmin.

 

[pesticide]

so purple pikmin, when thrown, can knock people off the edge?

doesnt olimars recovery get a huge boost in respect now?

 

[Cinder]

Hey I've got a question...a guy on another forum asked me, and since I don't have the game, I thought I'd double check...

Well I have a question about his "Plucking Pikmin". Does he pick them all up with one press of the buttons or does he have to constantly press it for each Pikkman?

You'll have to excuse his spelling XD...

And as I asked before, does the Up-B spike if a Purple Pikmin hits? I heard that here, and I don't know if it's true...

O_o...well? Could I get some answers?

 

[nyhustler208]

this is the best olimar guide we have it needs to be sticked . calling ALL mods i repeat calling all mods to sticky this

 

[Projectiled]

Sorry Cinder, yes, you pull one pikmin per press of the b button. There's very little lag, so you can pretty much pull them as quickly as you can press the b button, the only catch being that you must be standing somewhere (not necessarily the 'ground', a platform of any sort will work).

 

[Cinder]

Sorry Cinder, yes, you pull one pikmin per press of the b button. There's very little lag, so you can pretty much pull them as quickly as you can press the b button, the only catch being that you must be standing somewhere (not necessarily the 'ground', a platform of any sort will work).

Aight, thanks...and...the Purple Pikmin up-B spike?

 

[Projectiled]

Hmm, I'm thinking no on a spike, although obviously quite a strong more or less downward hit. I'll edit later today when I can confirm this. (up-b off the side in the situation you described, is suicide, of course, as you can't possible tether, so almost any situation in which you might consider doing this, one would be better off tossing the pikmin and then tethering; if the opponent climbs the ledge to avoid, the tether recovery will be possible, if the pikmin hits the opponent on the ledge, the tether is possible, if the opponent leaves to edge to attack the pikmin will hit, allowing recovery)

 

[Fautor Animus]

I was wondering, as a possible advanced tech with Oli, to get past the diminishing returns issue, he could: a) jab, f-smash, dash canceled jab, f-smash, rinse and repeat, or proceed to do whatever you want. I call this one the Oli Shuffle (after Muhammed Ali)
b)As a mind game that will do damage: Latch, F-smash, Latch, and then continue to kill. (Mainly U-smash) I don't know what i call it yet, but it could be likened to a flurry of blows. (Why is olimar so much like a boxer?)
Since I don't have the game, maybe someone could check the effectiveness of these techniques, and help improve them. Thanks, and great guide Echo, When i get the game, i would love to have some friendlies, maybe pick up some tech from you on the way!

 

[Sir Bedevere]

This is only making me more pysched to play as Olimar! ^o^ Great guide!

 

[Blade Knight]

I have been wondering can Olimar Teather-Cancel by shielding or useing his side-b in mid air or on the ground?

 

[icy_icicle]

Good news guys. I played Brawl today.



Oh, and also: the whistle shield is both extremely easy to time and highly effective. You do receive damage, but no knockback or even flinching if you time it right (and it's incredibly easy to do so). It sets you up perfectly for a lot of things. I think it'll become an important part of Olimar's metagame eventually.

Oh...another awesome thing:

I threw some Pikmin (One white and one red) onto Zelda when she had about 30 damage, then immediately grabbed her so she had no time to get rid of them, spammed the grab attack, and threw her. Her damage percentage by then? A nice little 70%. Long story short, throwing a Pikmin and then grabbing works quite well, and if you time it right they can't seem to escape your grip until the pikmin on them falls off.

 

[nyhustler208]

Good news guys. I played Brawl today.



Oh, and also: the whistle shield is both extremely easy to time and highly effective. You do receive damage, but no knockback or even flinching if you time it right (and it's incredibly easy to do so). It sets you up perfectly for a lot of things. I think it'll become an important part of Olimar's metagame eventually.

Oh...another awesome thing:

I threw some Pikmin (One white and one red) onto Zelda when she had about 30 damage, then immediately grabbed her so she had no time to get rid of them, spammed the grab attack, and threw her. Her damage percentage by then? A nice little 70%. Long story short, throwing a Pikmin and then grabbing works quite well, and if you time it right they can't seem to escape your grip until the pikmin on them falls off.

nice find icy i was thinking that would work, that would cause loads of dmg on an opponet and olimars smashes are really good KO attacks at that

 

[Rhubarbo]

It's disappointing that the Bud and Flower Pikmin do the same damage. It would have been a good reward for the player if they did. I think it was probably removed later in the developing stages to balance out the Pikmin.

Nice guide btw!

 

[kafke]

so... does Olimar have any adv techniques? I suppose the throwing the pikmin on someone and then grabbing them counts, but is there any others? I noticed peach has quite a few, kirby has one, and bowser too.

 

[nyhustler208]

so... does Olimar have any adv techniques? I suppose the throwing the pikmin on someone and then grabbing them counts, but is there any others? I noticed peach has quite a few, kirby has one, and bowser too.

im sure we will find one soon we just have to wait till the US realese

 

[NC-Echo]

I am planning on uploading the guide with strategies pretty soon but this weekend I have just been playing a lot. I'll have a lot of videos to put of soon.

 

[Textbook Ninja]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0vovoUgcao

Theres a start, combo vid up next. This combo has a thread already, dont post about it here.

 

[NC-Echo]

I am going to be updating the guide with a bunch of videos today and tomorrow. Check back.

 

[Proven]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0vovoUgcao

Theres a start, combo vid up next. This combo has a thread already, dont post about it here.

I'm not sure whether or not I'm happy that Olimar has a ****ing Ken combo that also looks like it works better than Marth's. But, just like Dedede's chain grab it looks it's mostly a weakness against heavy characters. I need to see more against lighter people.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Any chance someone can explore/breakdown the DownB super armor a little? Icy's comment about it seems to be the same opinion i've heard about it before as well, but no one seems too detailed about it, nor even have the newer olimar vids shown evidence of players trying to adopt this technique.

I find this strange because there seems an obvious connection in olimar's style to me. Dojo mentions his tech requirements, its common knowledge how easy it is to ledge guard tether recoveries, and super armor added to a move in its programming is no mistake, must be done on purpose... The easiest way to prevent exploitation of a weak recovery is to not need to recover, take the damage but not the knockback using DownB, obviously eventually you'll get punted off the stage cause you've got a high % and can't block every move, but the 2 or 3 killing moves your able to stomach before that is a huge deal.

So any further research in DownB would be appreciated on my end, I only dream I could have the game to help out in this exciting time. Questions to ask about the move though;
1) How practical is it, can the timing truly be mastered? (this is gonna be opinion, everyone able to try and interested in helping should give their input)
2) What are the drawbacks? (Does Oli have half a second of lag after he absorbs an attack, which will lead to him being killed anyway)
3) What are advantages beyond the obvious? (Like a shield grab, can Oli take an attack and then punish the opponent's lag)
4) If the tech isn't completely useful already, what quirky details can you find? (Perhaps DownB has IASA frames, Oli certainly seems able to do things immediately after DownB in my eyes, or perhaps if it does have lag, can you cancel this lag if you use the move just before you land, or even though jump canceling is out in other areas, maybe only something specific cancels lag)

Keep up the great work, thanks again,


-True

 

[Rhyme]

A few quick points confirmed false concerning the issue:
-no variation in damage
-no variation in knockback
-no variation in average latch number
-no variation in durability
-no additional 'armor'
-no healing benefits (when we first noticed the 1% armor, we questioned if perhaps the process of upgrading to the new form reset the damage)
-no variation in range
-no variation in return/moving/flying speed
-no variation in attack lag or windup

This IS an amazing guide, thanks ever so much for jotting that all down!

So just to be clear, you're saying that there is no difference in lag between whites and purples, only knockback? Strange, but good to know.

There's one thing you should test that I don't see on your list: elemental hits. There's a chance with aerials and the "latch" attack that the hit is an elemental one, and I'm tempted to say that the later stages of "development" for the pikmin will increase the chances of this elemental hit. It's probably either that or just the sweetspot of the attack, but do you think you could test this for me? I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned because I didn't read your thread in whole, I'm just assuming nobody's mentioned it because it's not part of the chart I quoted.

Thank you again.

 

[Textbook Ninja]

Any chance someone can explore/breakdown the DownB super armor a little? Icy's comment about it seems to be the same opinion i've heard about it before as well, but no one seems too detailed about it, nor even have the newer olimar vids shown evidence of players trying to adopt this technique.

I find this strange because there seems an obvious connection in olimar's style to me. Dojo mentions his tech requirements, its common knowledge how easy it is to ledge guard tether recoveries, and super armor added to a move in its programming is no mistake, must be done on purpose... The easiest way to prevent exploitation of a weak recovery is to not need to recover, take the damage but not the knockback using DownB, obviously eventually you'll get punted off the stage cause you've got a high % and can't block every move, but the 2 or 3 killing moves your able to stomach before that is a huge deal.

So any further research in DownB would be appreciated on my end, I only dream I could have the game to help out in this exciting time. Questions to ask about the move though;
1) How practical is it, can the timing truly be mastered? (this is gonna be opinion, everyone able to try and interested in helping should give their input)
2) What are the drawbacks? (Does Oli have half a second of lag after he absorbs an attack, which will lead to him being killed anyway)
3) What are advantages beyond the obvious? (Like a shield grab, can Oli take an attack and then punish the opponent's lag)
4) If the tech isn't completely useful already, what quirky details can you find? (Perhaps DownB has IASA frames, Oli certainly seems able to do things immediately after DownB in my eyes, or perhaps if it does have lag, can you cancel this lag if you use the move just before you land, or even though jump canceling is out in other areas, maybe only something specific cancels lag)

Keep up the great work, thanks again,


-True

Ive been trying to time the armor for a while, and the times you DO nail it - are a gamble, because although it may absorb the initial shock, as soon as that armor is gone if the smash that is hitting you has any more frames on it (aka ZSS), you usually still take the knockback + the damage. Sometimes its just more useful to go with your good ol' shield block.

Still working on finding usefulness for the armor, Im sure echo is too as well as many people. So Im not saying anything for sure, just from what Ive seen and worked on thus far.

 

[kafke]

hmm... About the growth of pikmin, nobody has noticed anything about it battle wise. But, what about how long the pikmin actually live? Theory: It may be that once they hit flower stage a while after they may die? is that possible? or could it just be what they look like(highly unlikely)

Edit: My bro pointed out "It could also be a larger hitbox" for the pikmin.

 

[cooldude123]

Why isn't this thread STICKY'D YET???

It's so godly...

ECHO... you're my hero!

 

[Florida]

This is an amazing guide.

 

[lcampoy8]

I have not played brawl yet but in the pikmin game the pikmin with the flower on it's head run faster than than the other two pikmin and the one with the bud runs faster than the one with the leaf.

 

[brawlmaniac]

This is great! I'll check back regularly to see more Olimar strategies. I'm so glad he's in the game.

 

[NC-Echo]

Check

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=145561

for other great brawl videos (not necessary Olimar).

 

[nyhustler208]

Olimar (Echo) vs. Marth (Lozr)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l47gyvqofpQ

i loved the way echo owned marth in that vid, i seriously hate marth as a character he has everything but prjectiles but his reach substituted for that kinda. (hes fast, strong and has reach) its pathetic how they made him so good

 

[Gimpyfish62]

sticky get

 

[Gimpyfish62]

my bad, i pressed close instead of stick LOL

sticky get complete XD

 

[Oceanborn]

Haha, I was wondering what happend. Echo's guide is good, and what even makes it better is that (just recently) I've seen Echo with P&O. He's great. Who better to make a guide than someone who knows what they're doing? GJ Echo.

 

[IllidR]

Keep up the good work Echo, love the guide. All I ask is that whenever you upload some more Olimar videos can you notify me or send them to me so I can keep the video thread up to date, keep having to stumble in here by myself to see you put some more videos up, love seeing your videos though.

 

[Pyr0]

Any chance someone can explore/breakdown the DownB super armor a little? Icy's comment about it seems to be the same opinion i've heard about it before as well, but no one seems too detailed about it, nor even have the newer olimar vids shown evidence of players trying to adopt this technique.

I find this strange because there seems an obvious connection in olimar's style to me. Dojo mentions his tech requirements, its common knowledge how easy it is to ledge guard tether recoveries, and super armor added to a move in its programming is no mistake, must be done on purpose... The easiest way to prevent exploitation of a weak recovery is to not need to recover, take the damage but not the knockback using DownB, obviously eventually you'll get punted off the stage cause you've got a high % and can't block every move, but the 2 or 3 killing moves your able to stomach before that is a huge deal.

So any further research in DownB would be appreciated on my end, I only dream I could have the game to help out in this exciting time. Questions to ask about the move though;
1) How practical is it, can the timing truly be mastered? (this is gonna be opinion, everyone able to try and interested in helping should give their input)
2) What are the drawbacks? (Does Oli have half a second of lag after he absorbs an attack, which will lead to him being killed anyway)
3) What are advantages beyond the obvious? (Like a shield grab, can Oli take an attack and then punish the opponent's lag)
4) If the tech isn't completely useful already, what quirky details can you find? (Perhaps DownB has IASA frames, Oli certainly seems able to do things immediately after DownB in my eyes, or perhaps if it does have lag, can you cancel this lag if you use the move just before you land, or even though jump canceling is out in other areas, maybe only something specific cancels lag)

I ask the same question here.

Great job Echo. keep it up!

 

[NC-Echo]

Thanks for the sticky

 

[Hesaki]

congrats on the sticky Echo.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Grats on the sticky, guess that makes this official =)
DSF's oli is a good watch for any of you who haven't searched it out yet, just watched all of those and theres certainly some good value in them. One thing in particular stuck out, I believe he is still slightly more SSBM influenced at the moment, especially in the near constant SHs to approach/bait. It didn't help him so much with MK's disjointed hit box and strength in the air, but overall is a great alternate play style compared to echo's and I'm sure theres ideas to be taken from the videos.

One quick question I'd love elaboration on, neither Echo nor DSF use UpB as an attack but once or twice in combined in all their videos. I understand as the move description says its not particularly strong knockback wise, but honestly from the few times i've seen its used I've gotten the impression it is stronger than the 3 given. Not only that but its speed and range seem great as well. So i figure i'm missing something here, when you use this move are all your pikmin able to be attacked/killed? Is there more lag after the move than i realize? I feel as Oli is a character so dependent on spacing this move itself actually helps maintain it. If an opponent attempts to jump to approach an UpB seemingly could consistently knock him back and keep spacing, forcing the opponent to attack on the ground, which suits Oli very well. I understand the UpB could be airdodged, but if the lag of the dodge and the move are comparable this could perhaps still give advantage Oli. Just an idea from the peanut gallery, let me hear it if i'm totally missing something.


-True

 

[technomancer]

I'd just like to take a second to note that Fox would destroy Olimar with shine->hog due to the crappy angle. Any suggestions?

 

[NC-Echo]

Fox would have to get in close leaving him vulnerable to getting hit with U-B. I don't foresee fox's edge guardiing to be a bigger problem then edge guarding from any other character.