Like what reasons?
Lasers nullify hitbox size, is that what you're saying?
Lasers nullify hitbox size, is that what you're saying?
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NC Brocator Thread!
- Thread starter Ocean
- Start date
Moophobia
Smash Champion
Yo **** falco and marth and falcon and fox and sheik... =( Why peach match ups so bad.
It gets easier the better you get. =)
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
uhh i think your just bad at those match ups
peach vs falco and falcon is arguable for either side, so could easily be settled as even
and peach vs sheik i think can be arguably even too.
idk ab fox and marth tho, seems hard
peach vs falco and falcon is arguable for either side, so could easily be settled as even
and peach vs sheik i think can be arguably even too.
idk ab fox and marth tho, seems hard
Never heard anyone say Peach/Falcon is arguably even.....any reasoning behind that one?
Peach vs Falco though....yeah I've heard that argued both ways.
Haven't heard of Peach/sheik being arguably even either....reasoning for that one? Usually people just say sheik wins and lol at amsah beating armada at pound 4.
Peach vs Falco though....yeah I've heard that argued both ways.
Haven't heard of Peach/sheik being arguably even either....reasoning for that one? Usually people just say sheik wins and lol at amsah beating armada at pound 4.
OmniOstrich
Smash Lord
Not that I disagree about your opinion, but choosing a single set to back yourself up doesn't really mean anything without more data (ie. other sets between other players.)
It's not necessarily my opinion, and I am more curious to hear responses such as that in their entirety than I am entirely backing up my own questions. This is particularly true when people I am discussing things with do not provide me the same luxury of a fully-backed opinion/point of view.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
shut UP kevin!
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
hmm.
mike will be back.
intredasting...
mike will be back.
intredasting...
Moophobia
Smash Champion
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
i figured peach falcon was even...
but i dunno. i'm dum.
lol inorganic chemistry class...wait wtf i shoulda been paying attention to this...
but i dunno. i'm dum.
lol inorganic chemistry class...wait wtf i shoulda been paying attention to this...
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
Falco's dair -> up smash? shine -> waveland -> upsmash? lemme stop there...just, no. fox's up smash in pal is still fox's up smash. falco doesnt need it in the slightest. he already has f smash
since when do u main peach?
seconded
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
yo theo what time is it?
Moophobia
Smash Champion
I decided to take the easy way out to win
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
it's 1:40 pm here
man,
every time i see a doc/mario main, i compare them to how much ur doc improved in such a short amount of time
but i guess peach is a better character
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
loooool.
WRONG.
it's 8:40 in the morning and i'm tired of chemistry.
i miss you theo. u worn a kilt yet? play any rugby?
WRONG.
it's 8:40 in the morning and i'm tired of chemistry.
i miss you theo. u worn a kilt yet? play any rugby?
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
yo **** both of those
i keep trying to mentally justify wearing a kilt in a culturally traditional setting, but the image i keep getting is a hair *** ginger in a plaid green kilt skipping about throwing disci...
the only thing i would do in a kilt is play bagpipes. bagpipes are seriously badass
also, rugby? lol
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Because you can combo Dair into Dair forever and then finish them off with Dair, Marth's can't do that. (Well... I do that lol but I'm bad) It's falco's best move imo, shield pressure, combos, speed, power. Really not sure why you're trying to compare the two as Falco's Dair is (imo obviously) a better tool in almost everyway. (obv loses in the range department though)
And I'm saying lasers make hitboxes go away, no matter what size, unless there are hitboxes that beat lasers that I don't know about, which is more than possible. So I guess I am saying they nullify hitbox size?, (that sounds weird to me) but they kinda just nullify hitboxes por general, you know, when they hit them, and the opponent gets hit by a laser, and the move they were doing stops, because they got hit by a laser
Ramblings of a just woken up *** hole
Yeah Kevin, you've never heard Peach/Falcon as even?
That's like
common accepted knowledge now lmao
Falcon's even match ups [accepted] are
Peach Marth Jiggs
I want to add Sheik in there but I honestly do feel like even though it sucks and you have to be absolutely 100% on your game
If you hit her, you win
Win, PP
Win
That's like
common accepted knowledge now lmao
Falcon's even match ups [accepted] are
Peach Marth Jiggs
I want to add Sheik in there but I honestly do feel like even though it sucks and you have to be absolutely 100% on your game
If you hit her, you win
Win, PP
Win
Moophobia
Smash Champion
How is that **** even I do not approve at all.
Edit: and Theo my doc isn't good it's just flashy and I lose to people I feel I shouldn't I still play doc a lot though
Edit: and Theo my doc isn't good it's just flashy and I lose to people I feel I shouldn't I still play doc a lot though
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
moneymatch?
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Sup guys??
Moophobia
Smash Champion
At orientation right now what about you PLUR PLUR ?
Well let's break this down
How does Sheik approach?
Answer: She doesn't. A lot [almost all] of her approaches can be shut down by CC, anything that needs to be returned by something else other than CC [DA, which requires CC teching] can be punished easily on whiff/shield. Once grabbed, sheik is easily comboed [to a point]
How does CF approach?
Answer: He doesn't. We all know CF is like the easiest character in the game to combo, anything missed/shielded/whiffed turns into grabs, which turns into tech chases, which turns into edgeguarding, which turns into death.
There's neutral game for you
Basically CF controls the match with his mobility, playing the MU a lot like Marth [i.e. DD until they miss->****]
Staying out of problem areas [45 degrees down on a jumping sheik, off stage, etc]
He has a guaranteed throw->knee percent [80-100%ish uthrow->knee, dthrow theoretically never combos with correct DI]
and edgeguarding is just a series of tubes
[if close enough for this, do this]
Since most of this is just patience, mobility, and knee, it really just is a waiting game
It's just if you ever get hit you die. But it's the same the other way around.
Sure
0 ****s are given.
Even if you 3-0 me that idea really isn't going to change.
I think that the better player will win when both of the players fully understand their character.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
At work bored out of mind, looking at girls' butts as they walk by, sketching a picture of a super-chibi popo, Moo-MewAt orientation right now what about you PLUR PLUR ?
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
This is actually a good point
but i do think sheik has the advantage in damage dealing potential. the fact that a lot of falcon's "combos" can be DIed out of and that many of sheik's tilts/aerials and her CC allow her neutral game to dominate many attempts on the part of the falcon to get close give her an advantage. That, coupled with the fact that she can virtually force an approach with needles means to me that sheiks who lose the match typically dont know the matchup very well (myself included)
I am actually in the midst of doing a study on that matchup (like, a legit study with notes/statistics/****) because for a while i felt lost; i didnt get wtf was going on in my matches.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matchup. its taken me a long time to realize the truth about what you just stated. I think falcon's tend to know more about this MU than sheiks/other mains, prolly because it tends to be such an uphll battle for u guys
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
My name needs to be changed in the OP pleaseeeee
Well I would love to talk about this
Because it's a MU I'm very familiar with.
I'll send you a PM and we can discuss specifics there
Unless of course the rest of NC want to continue discussing it here
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Please, I enjoy the match up from both sides and would like to see a discussion here on it, chiming in when and where I can.
While my personal idea on the matchup has changed over the years, I have always loved Falcon's combo game and spacing game vs Sheik. She seems almost perfect to combo for falcon imo
While my personal idea on the matchup has changed over the years, I have always loved Falcon's combo game and spacing game vs Sheik. She seems almost perfect to combo for falcon imo
Moophobia
Smash Champion
I was talking about peach falcon not falcon sheik
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Peach Falcon?
uhhh
I guess it's evenish
Falcon's favor slightly maybe probably
it's harder for Peach to get in (imo), but I feel as though she punishes much harder (imo)
turnips can help, but Falcon's fast and in today's metagame more and more people are catching turnips, but they're still helpful
edge-guarding Peach def has the advantage, in general and in the match-up (imo)
uhhh
I guess it's evenish
Falcon's favor slightly maybe probably
it's harder for Peach to get in (imo), but I feel as though she punishes much harder (imo)
turnips can help, but Falcon's fast and in today's metagame more and more people are catching turnips, but they're still helpful
edge-guarding Peach def has the advantage, in general and in the match-up (imo)
Moophobia
Smash Champion
Peach punishes falcon harder? Nair ***** turnips knee stomp stop me from ccing he's way fast combos and kills off of grabs hard to di out of combos out ranges me and uair is utter destruction to peach. I may out prioritize him and have good edge guarding but getting to that point is much harder for peach than it is for falcon. I've lost matches to shield butt grab to knee because this game is idiotic and you can grab from behind
bossa nova ♪
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,876
PP, i think sheik v peach is in sheik's favor, personally. but it's not the kind of match up that can be equated to fox v peach or marth v peach. i don't see the MU as unbalanced enough to call someone crazy for arguing that it's even. i would call someone crazy for arguing that peach v fox is even.
yeah, sheik has guaranteed grab combos, but if you DI it into a fair, peach can still live for a long time, so i feel like the grab thing is a little over rated, but i might just be foolish. they both can combo the **** out of each other otherwise, and i feel like, depending on the stage, once the sheik has to upB with the peach on the ledge, it's pretty much death. doesn't seem that way on the other side... the sheik has build a ****e load of damage, or try to catch a double jump with a fair or something... otherwise that peach is living for a while.
but i think that sheik wins... her grab combos are guaranteed damage at least, bair is ****ing amazing and used in the right way can **** floating in the ***... also another facet of sheik that i think is EXTREMELY underdeveloped, maybe because of how uncreative most humans who main her are, is needles. charging canceling mixed in with movement techniques, turning yourself around to use your extremely legitimate b-air, using platforms extensively along with canceling to put yourself in a lot of positions and trying to confuse your opponent. i feel like sheiks have a lot of freedom that they don't take advantage of, but the ones that excite me the most are Walk (Ryota; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duypjAUjSsk), KDJ (did a lot of STRANGE WD in place ****, had a really interesting reactive mix-up game where he'd just do **** you didn't expect out of nowhere... people called it "gay" a lot, but looking back at his old matches i think he had a brilliant mix of analysis and spontaneity out of any sheik), and Reno (but only just the first 30 seconds or so of his match vs M2K in RoM1 crews... it really was THAT hype though that it needs mentioning... and not just cuz of Alukard's yelping.)
and peach v falcon?
hard for both sides. peach has to be wary of floating cuz of u-airs, but also being on the ground and shielding because of grabs. falcon's amazing offense does some damage to peach's traditional defensive techniques, but he can still die from being in one techning position (or one grab if you're talking about FD, but **** that), so he has to be EXTREMELY careful and watch the peach, obviously, very very closely. again, DEFINITELY, not bad enough to be equated to those other match ups... that was the only point i was trying to make.
yeah, sheik has guaranteed grab combos, but if you DI it into a fair, peach can still live for a long time, so i feel like the grab thing is a little over rated, but i might just be foolish. they both can combo the **** out of each other otherwise, and i feel like, depending on the stage, once the sheik has to upB with the peach on the ledge, it's pretty much death. doesn't seem that way on the other side... the sheik has build a ****e load of damage, or try to catch a double jump with a fair or something... otherwise that peach is living for a while.
but i think that sheik wins... her grab combos are guaranteed damage at least, bair is ****ing amazing and used in the right way can **** floating in the ***... also another facet of sheik that i think is EXTREMELY underdeveloped, maybe because of how uncreative most humans who main her are, is needles. charging canceling mixed in with movement techniques, turning yourself around to use your extremely legitimate b-air, using platforms extensively along with canceling to put yourself in a lot of positions and trying to confuse your opponent. i feel like sheiks have a lot of freedom that they don't take advantage of, but the ones that excite me the most are Walk (Ryota; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duypjAUjSsk), KDJ (did a lot of STRANGE WD in place ****, had a really interesting reactive mix-up game where he'd just do **** you didn't expect out of nowhere... people called it "gay" a lot, but looking back at his old matches i think he had a brilliant mix of analysis and spontaneity out of any sheik), and Reno (but only just the first 30 seconds or so of his match vs M2K in RoM1 crews... it really was THAT hype though that it needs mentioning... and not just cuz of Alukard's yelping.)
and peach v falcon?
hard for both sides. peach has to be wary of floating cuz of u-airs, but also being on the ground and shielding because of grabs. falcon's amazing offense does some damage to peach's traditional defensive techniques, but he can still die from being in one techning position (or one grab if you're talking about FD, but **** that), so he has to be EXTREMELY careful and watch the peach, obviously, very very closely. again, DEFINITELY, not bad enough to be equated to those other match ups... that was the only point i was trying to make.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
i think if anyone has an advantage its falcon but...its pretty close
peaches problem is killing, she can punish falcon kinda hard but if falcons smart its hard to force a kill o.o
peaches problem is killing, she can punish falcon kinda hard but if falcons smart its hard to force a kill o.o
LMFAOOOOOOOO that bagpipes comment is absurd. You're absurd! <3
Accepted can suck an oily one because people thought Puff was ban worthy/broken/top 3 across the board last year. I challenge all rules that I feel like challenging.
Falcon is faster than Peach, has bigger moves than Peach, can wall Peach, can't die off the top to Uair combos or CG upsmash well, and can kill from a read to a knee vs having to finagle a combo into it. Falcon also gets platform tricks and Dair abuse from it that Peach has a tough time answering to when used intelligently. Falcon's grab game is just as destructive as Peach's is and tends to have easier things to get off of it.
vs Marth someone wins because that matchup is gay and too many people think someone wins so someone's gotta win. Feels like Falcon a lot but Marth gets some cool gimps and can tech chase for a while with throws and has sick juggles soooo
Jiggz is super weird and I don't fully understand that matchup so no comment. Walling wars vs Falcon's Uair'ing under/stomping over puff and tight grab combos/kills vs free edgeguards and low percent rest kills to nullify Falcon's weight.
What is this sheik thing justified by? I'm aware you'll say matchup things but if Hax johnned about Sheik and lost to her then that would mean that Darkrain SS and him all lost to Sheik at majors so you guys would say Falcon lost to Sheik. Hax himself says Sheik beats Falcon but he's really good at the matchup. Meh responding to matchup things in your next post.
Sheik approaches by spacing stuff and threatening, like a slower Marth. And I mean, she technically doesn't have to approach if we wanna go that route because needles are projectiles and force approaches. If not approaches, then it usually means they get close so you can't needle safely anymore, and then you can approach since the distance between the characters will be small and sheik has fairly big moves+a surprising dash attack. CC isn't always going to happen because people move around so they can't always hold down, but yes I suppose CC beats out her approaches, which is why boost grabbing is great for nailing DDs btw.
Guh hate the can't approach theory, as an aside.
Falcon has knee which trades with sheik's tilts if timed correctly because it's part of her body and it also stuns long enough to **** CC'ing usually. spaced Bair beats tilts sometimes and is great in general for hitting at Sheik's head, which she doesn't cover too well except with like Bair. Spaced Nair controls space well and can be used as an approach sparingly. Heck the S2J delayed Uair is **** at times as well because it's a huge hitbox in front of Falcon.
I mean yeah DD ***** too but Falcon can do stuff.
Falcon can do so much more off of grabs at any percent(except pretty high ones I guess).....just watch Hax lol he knows the %s or "formulas." It stops being mandatory to tech chase vs sheik pretty low I think.
Imo there's more to neutral than approaching anyway and more to punishing than grabs and edgeguards but this is a pretty good starting point I suppose.
Yo you found the bubble-wrap butt bit yet?
legit
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Peach/Falcon is advantage Falcon in my opinion. It's doable for Peach but I feel like Falcon still runs circles around her and she can't force him to stay still very well because she's slow and gets kidnapped after baking cakes.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
ive never played a falcon that could catch my turnips but I'd imagine that'd put it pretty heavy in his favor =[
Then I would say you simply see Sheik vs Peach as sheik's favor but not by as much as Sheik vs Fox.
Sheik gets more off a grab than Peach, and Sheik can kill from a grab whereas the best Peach can do is hope for an edgeguard usually.
Peach has pretty bad/slow getups from the edge and can't mix in DJs onstage if Sheik up-Bs high AND Dsmash can be survival DI'd well(DI down first hit up second hit) so Peach can't get sheik offstage again to cycle unless it's with a grab, but that doesn't do much damage and doesn't send far(since it'll probably be bthrow especially).
Forcing Peach to stay grounded is huge, I agree.
KDJ's movement stuff and WD in place/slight changing is seriously sexy, I agree.
I agree that sheiks should do more of all those things you said.
Some Peaches hate it about as much as Fox(Falcon, that is). What would you say this reasoning is for?
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
I mean yea, down-throw knee sucks, but it's kinda like staple falcon and is gonna happenPeach punishes falcon harder? Nair ***** turnips knee stomp stop me from ccing he's way fast combos and kills off of grabs hard to di out of combos out ranges me and uair is utter destruction to peach. I may out prioritize him and have good edge guarding but getting to that point is much harder for peach than it is for falcon. I've lost matches to shield butt grab to knee because this game is idiotic and you can grab from behind
like upthrow-air
mad gay
gonna happen
and yea I guess I should revise my statement. I think Peach should get in more damage from any given first hit, but Falcon can take advantage of the fact that she can die early better than most... But peach should seriously get like a good amount of damage in she has a lot of good options on fastfallers to keep combo's going lol, not saying Falcon doesn't though, just saying I think Peach's are better overall.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Kevin why are you editing my post?