NC Brocator Thread!

[ph00tbag]

I just heard the best MM idea from tofer_booboo.

Make out money match. First to stop loses.

 

[Mahone]

that's why you double shine, because its hard to DI both

If you sdi the first one you get out of it iirc...


also... how the hell do you lose to josh lol...

 

[lord karn]

Sneak, if you need help hosting or hussling people to actually get stuff done, I'll definitely help.

 

[Dark Hart]

If you sdi the first one you get out of it iirc...


also... how the hell do you lose to josh lol...

Cause Falco > Fox

 

[Lightsyde]

If you sdi the first one you get out of it iirc...


also... how the hell do you lose to josh lol...

You might be able to, but it might depend on how fast they do the second shine. Hmm..

And you should know. You lose almost every friendly we play where you don't get 2 or more rests. Also, you've never beat me with a character who was not Puff, friendlies or otherwise, and I've trashed your Falco (lol) everytime you've ever pulled it out.

Also, the last time we played in tournament and I played the match up correctly and 2 stocked you game 4, on game 5, you blatantly planked me for like 5 minutes until I got so disgusted I ran at you on the edge. So talk all the trash you want, you know what actually happens when we play.

Cause Falco > Fox

This is definitely not true. Please explain to me how Fox, a character with better throws, a better recovery, better jump speed, better OOS options, better run speed, a better camp game and a better gimp game is worse than Falco.

 

[Mahone]

ya, but i was under the impression that the skill gap was pretty mistaken...

i guess i underestimate you josh


edit: lol i guess i should edit my post to correct you, since your post appeared right after i submitted mine....

I don't really remember our friendlies, but i don't really see your point... i could just not take a guaranteed combo like upthrow->rest, but i don't really see what that would prove... i remember hearing you say once that "efficiency is beautiful" or something along those lines, so i'm not sure i understand why that matters. I could probably make an educated guess that you would not have beat twitch had you not got 2 or more dair kills each match...

before you correct me and tell me that you got 5 shine bair kills, 2 dsmash kills, etc.... see that my point is that even if you did get 2 or more kills with dair it would just be you playing the matchup so i wouldn't put an asterisk next to your win.... i think the same idea applies to falco-jiggs and resting.

I feel fairly confident that I could beat you in falco dittos and i might even be able to beat you with my fox or marth at this point.... Instead of just talking **** on the boards, i will say for a fact that the next time i play you in tournament i won't use jiggs since I'm interested in what john you will come up with then lol.

 

[~Twitch~]

hurry up to my house so i can take my salt out on you.

 

[Lightsyde]

ya, but i was under the impression that the skill gap was pretty mistaken...

i guess i underestimate you josh


edit: lol i guess i should edit my post to correct you, since your post appeared right after i submitted mine....

I don't really remember our friendlies, but i don't really see your point... i could just not take a guaranteed combo like upthrow->rest, but i don't really see what that would prove... i remember hearing you say once that "efficiency is beautiful" or something along those lines, so i'm not sure i understand why that matters. I could probably make an educated guess that you would not have beat twitch had you not got 2 or more dair kills each match...

before you correct me and tell me that you got 5 shine bair kills, 2 dsmash kills, etc.... see that my point is that even if you did get 2 or more kills with dair it would just be you playing the matchup so i wouldn't put an asterisk next to your win.... i think the same idea applies to falco-jiggs and resting.

I feel fairly confident that I could beat you in falco dittos and i might even be able to beat you with my fox or marth at this point.... Instead of just talking **** on the boards, i will say for a fact that the next time i play you in tournament i won't use jiggs since I'm interested in what john you will come up with then lol.

Lmao

You have a move that pretty much kills instantly that is easily combo'd into or can be done OOS. Not to mention gimps. This is not even close to comparable to Falco's Dair or whatever bad rationale/comparison you're trying to make.

And as far as you beating me in Falco dittos...I've read that same post 2 or 3 different times prior to today and 2/3 stocked you at subsequent tourneys. I also really hope you play Fox/Marth against me as I think it will be an eye opening experience. I do not think you can beat me (or pretty much anyone else on the upcoming NC PR's) without Puff. I challenge you to come to NC and prove otherwise.

EDIT: Also for the record, I have no idea why you feel the need to come in and say something disparaging as soon as I get a good win. I do not follow you around the boards mocking your accomplishments. I am friendly to you in person and have been trying to just ignore you on the boards, so I do not know why you think this is okay.

 

[Mahone]

I definitely didnt mean to put down your win, i was just joking, so sorry if i gave that impression...

I thought we had sort of a friendly rivalry so i thought you wouldnt mind

Also you left out puff's weaknesses lol

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

high stakes money match coming up.

 

[Dr Peepee]

put up or shut up imo

both ways

 

[Dark Hart]

$25 MM???? $50 MM???? $100 MM????

 

[Dr Peepee]

Rofl killed the thread.

Falcon vs Fox is hard.

I sweat.

 

[Dark Hart]

Since Falco > Fox

 

[Dr Peepee]

What does that have to do with anything lmao. I meant my comment to mean I killed the thread, unless you're just saying that?

I'm thinking Falco Fox might be even but I need to train my Falco again to level up and see.

 

[lord karn]

I think falco/fox is even.

 

[Sneak8288]

Out of the matches i've played mahone with falco, i think i've been rested a total of 3 times. Its just part of the match up. You cant really discredit wins because of a tech, that's like discrediting wins from wobbling

 

[Dr Peepee]

I cringed.

More or less what Sneak said

 

[Moophobia]

Man I'm dat scrub I got beat by a falcon player and a marth player I suck what terrible characters.
PP HALP ME
=(

 

[Dr Peepee]

They are talented players who have played for many years and give Peaches(particularly at this level but Falcon does so always) a hard time.

Also AIM

edit: also nvm

Falcon needs.....hmmm let's brainstorm and I can make Twitch do the matchup with me lol.

Marth needs you to turnip him....and.....not do that attack when stuck in neutral position like Mike did looool.

Habits first and matchups come with it more often than not. Gotta learn good player theory to apply to all matchups from my experience, though I think if we ever get super advanced discussion going then we'd find that both run extremely deep separately.

words

 

[Moophobia]

Well I'm at ashtons atm so get on skype or something.
yeah I was being sarcastic they good, just the people I wanted to beat.
Why couldn't they sd or some ****.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm supposed to be sleeping(class johns). =( Tomorrow though!

And lmao well read what I typed anyway it *****. XD Also yeah I want NC only finals from now on lol.

 

[Moophobia]

Yeah I agree, but yeah I'll message you tomorrow when I get the chance. TEACH ME KEVIN TEACH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sounds great!

 

[Lightsyde]

Kevin, I stopped responding because I was busy at work and then I spent all night studying for tests I have today. /priorities

Out of the matches i've played mahone with falco, i think i've been rested a total of 3 times. Its just part of the match up. You cant really discredit wins because of a tech, that's like discrediting wins from wobbling

You and I play very differently.

Also, I've seen Cam rest/gimp you a lottttt more times than he's ever rested me. I also seem to recall Cam's Puff 3 stocking you in tourney and you johning about the match up. /pot calling kettle ethnically challenged

(You also did not seem to notice that the match I mentioned where I played correctly I ***** him and the next match he planked me for 5 minutes. You probably think that's a legit way to win too.)

And while I understand some players feel this way, I disagree that excessive rests/wobbling constitute legitimate wins; especially while the other player is having to do combos/take risks/work for their kills. I have plenty of reasons, based in my own understanding of the game, which I've discussed many times so I will not fully rehash. I do not think getting one grab or one hit should constitute auto kills without a lot of work/good follow ups.

Mahone: Sorry, I misunderstood your intent but it seems like every time I do well or beat someone good, it's just regarded as some fluke. I suppose that's Melee for you though.

EDIT: Also, to be fair, I've been incredibly sick/stressed from work, and was pretty high strung yesterday. Apologies.

 

[Foxy]

wobbling and rest both result from correct execution after achieving a grab

those 2 things are not worth referencing and certianly do not constitute gayness or a poor playstyle in any way

you are still achieving the position of the grab versus your opponent and the risk/reward, and versus a good player there is no skill-less landed grab

the other high and top tier characters (and many more) have normal throw combos that generally can lead to a very long combo or death otherwise with similar requirements and match situations



coming from someone who does not rest with jigglypuff from grabs, because my average grab combos work out better if i ignore upthrow-rest completely, and my momentum is much better. it is also more fun.

an easy and simple strategy is not a bonus - for a human; not only are they boring, but they are less adaptable and good players love to make plays with many more decision points. however,

even a player who has 100% success rate with rests and wobbles from grabs will have to do enough legitimate good play to reach those situations in a winning match that it is again a moot point.

 

[Sneak8288]

Kevin, I stopped responding because I was busy at work and then I spent all night studying for tests I have today. /priorities



You and I play very differently.

Also, I've seen Cam rest/gimp you a lottttt more times than he's ever rested me. I also seem to recall Cam's Puff 3 stocking you in tourney and you johning about the match up. /pot calling kettle ethnically challenged

(You also did not seem to notice that the match I mentioned where I played correctly I ***** him and the next match he planked me for 5 minutes. You probably think that's a legit way to win too.)

And while I understand some players feel this way, I disagree that excessive rests/wobbling constitute legitimate wins; especially while the other player is having to do combos/take risks/work for their kills. I have plenty of reasons, based in my own understanding of the game, which I've discussed many times so I will not fully rehash. I do not think getting one grab or one hit should constitute auto kills without a lot of work/good follow ups.

Mahone: Sorry, I misunderstood your intent but it seems like every time I do well or beat someone good, it's just regarded as some fluke. I suppose that's Melee for you though.

EDIT: Also, to be fair, I've been incredibly sick/stressed from work, and was pretty high strung yesterday. Apologies.

Johning about the match-up? wtf? I've always been on the side saying spacies beat jiggs and it was clear i was messing around in matches with Cam. The only time we've ever had a serious set was spacies vs spacies. Bottom line is your johning about a move a character has when you chose to play falco. Nobody forced you to play Falco vs Jiggs. Rest or not a win is a win and it was legit. You can always DI the throw. Ever since I moved here you have always tried to discredit wins whether the cause being it wasn't a "real character" (peach's downsmash) or because you sded when its no one else fault but your own. At times when you discuss this you have a "since my character is harder to play your wins don't count" type of attitude. If your choosing to play the game competitively any win is legit and you have to learn to accept it instead of discrediting the win because of how the match is played because all the matters in the end is the player with the most stocks

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Aw here it goes

 

[Lightsyde]

Johning about the match-up? wtf? I've always been on the side saying spacies beat jiggs and it was clear i was messing around in matches with Cam. The only time we've ever had a serious set was spacies vs spacies. Bottom line is your johning about a move a character has when you chose to play falco. Nobody forced you to play Falco vs Jiggs. IMORest or not a win is a win and it was legit. You can always DI the throw. Ever since I moved here you have always tried to discredit wins whether the cause being it wasn't a "real character" (peach's downsmash) or because you sded when its no one else fault but your own. At times when you discuss this you have a "since my character is harder to play your wins don't count" type of attitude. IMOIf your choosing to play the game competitively any win is legit and you have to learn to accept it instead of discrediting the win because of how the match is played because all the matters in the end is the player with the most stocks to me

The only one it was clear you were messing around to was you. No johns. Cam freed all over you and you john'd about Jiggs. I was standing behind you.

Most of your points are opinions. I play and think about the game fundamentally different than you. Believe it or not, the game is about a lot more than victory screens to me.

SD's are my fault, but that doesn't constitute that player beating me. If someone SD'd multiple times against me, I wouldn't call it a legit win either. PS: Read Mango's Genesis blog where he talks about SD'ing and Floaties. Real talk.

It has nothing to do with my character being harder. It has to do with how people play their characters. I do not expect you to understand.

And again, no, the victory screen is not all that matters. Maybe it does to you (I even said in my post, "I understand some people feel differently"), but it does not to me. This game is about something different to me.

TL:DR: Just because you congratulate yourself or others over trash victories doesn't mean I have to.

Austin: I'll respond when I get time.

 

[Sneak8288]

The only one it was clear you were messing around to was you. No johns. Cam freed all over you and you john'd about Jiggs. I was standing behind you.

Most of your points are opinions. I play and think about the game fundamentally different than you. Believe it or not, the game is about a lot more than victory screens to me.

SD's are my fault, but that doesn't constitute that player beating me. If someone SD'd multiple times against me, I wouldn't call it a legit win either. Just because you congratulate yourself or others over trash victories doesn't mean I have to. PS: Read Mango's Genesis blog where he talks about SD'ing and Floaties. Real talk.

It has nothing to do with my character being harder. It has to do with how people play their characters. I do not expect you to understand.

And again, no, the victory screen is not all that matters to me.

Austin: I'll respond when I get time.

Yea it does constitute that player beating you. You can't try to discredit someone's win because you can't control your character. Its not a trash victory because the person i'm playing isn't good enough to keep themselves on the stage without being forced off of it

I disagree that excessive rests/wobbling constitute legitimate wins; especially while the other player is having to do combos/take risks/work for their kills.

This is basically saying that since my character takes more work to kill with, your win isn't legit.

 

[Lightsyde]

In my opinion, Yea it does constitute that player beating you. You can't try to discredit someone's win because you can't control your character. In my opinion, Its not a trash victory because the person i'm playing isn't good enough to keep themselves on the stage without being forced off of it

I would discredit any win with numerous SD's involved.

It means they move on in bracket, not that they beat that person. That is my opinion, again, I am fine with you not agreeing. Your mindset, to me, limits you and makes you accepting/self congratulatory of things you did not work for. Winning must satisfy a condition in my mind.

Please understand that while it is Melee, we are clearly not playing for the same reasons and not obviously not playing the same game. My mindset makes me improve, regardless.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

For the record, I'm pretty sure everyone would rather have a match whether every stock was a 'legitimate'(which is hard to define anyways) kill. Sneak's basically saying stop killing yourself and you won't have that excuse for losing. No sense crying over spilled milk, or phantasms that were supposed to be lasers.

And what makes a character hard to play anyway? Some people find slow, spacing-based characters hard, some people find fast characters easy.

 

[Sneak8288]

I would discredit any win with numerous SD's involved.

It means they move on in bracket, not that they beat that person. That is my opinion, again, I am fine with you not agreeing. Your mindset, to me, limits you and makes you accepting/self congratulatory of things you did not work for. Winning must satisfy a condition in my mind.

Please understand that while it is Melee, we are clearly not playing for the same reasons and not obviously not playing the same game. My mindset makes me improve, regardless.

I'll explain my mindset to you. If I'm in a tournament match you play to win and everyone you play against is going to play with that winning intent as well. If a person SDs in tournament I'm not going to give a second chance to them because they weren't ready to perform in the setting they practiced for. To me, competitive melee is a packaged deal. You learn the basics like controlling your character/techskill and you learn to win/decision making. If I SD, I'm not going to say the person I was playing vs didn't earn the win. To me did earn it because they had the control they needed to keep themselves from SDing and took the rest of my stocks. With my mindset, since I didn't have that control, I'm going to look back at it and practice until I do, so the next time I play that person the only thing taking my stocks will be the other player. Technically they outplayed me in terms of character control, which is why i can say they earned the win.

As for how that other person is playing, if I'm getting rested or dsmashed or whatever, what is the point of complaining about it if I put myself in the situation to have that happen. Maybe its the influence of other fighting game communities that has my mindset this way but instead of saying someone didn't legitimately earn the win, I would rather just find a way around it and if my opponent can't handle my play style, they just have more work to do. I mean, how would I sound saying "You only beat me when you took advantage of situations to easily kill me multiple times a match". Is taking a less efficient and more difficult route to take a stock the only legit way to win? To me that would seem like a more limiting mindset

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

that.

all of that

 

[Foxy]

Austin: I'll respond when I get time.

no need i was just throwing an opinion into the mix

it is no more correct and probably less so than others`


edit: snaek's last post is nail-on-the-head

though i believe sneak and josh are both correct about different things, sneak talks of competition and the best mindset and is 100% correct on that subject, but josh talks perspectives and is more bothered by the abstracts (like a players reasons for playing how they do, or effects on the community/opinions when triple-SD matches are treated like challenging victories)


i feel that at a fundamental level josh knows the same as sneak about the game and competition, and in a conversation he may explain to sneak:

"i'm aware of all that, and that's why i still play melee and think its a great game worth improving at. i'm definitely not trying to start an argument about melee's competitive balance. all i'm doing is expressing how the game's abstracts can make a person very frustrated, and originally it was just a reply to properly defend myself because mahone legitimately called me out regarding my skill-level."

try to remember that josh may explain the feeling of things more than he is trying to state the supreme actuality of every situation. i do not think he intends his statements to be taken in the context of extreme competitive detail.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I really dislike wobbling.

That is all.

Edit: And what Foxy said.

 

[Lightsyde]

no need i was just throwing an opinion into the mix

it is no more correct and probably less so than others`


edit: sneak's last post is nail-on-the-head

though i believe sneak and josh are both correct about different things,

sneak talks of competition and the best mindset and is 100% correct on that subject,

josh talks perspectives and is more bothered by the abstracts (like a players reasons for playing how they do, or effects on the community/opinions when triple-SD matches are treated like challenging victories)

i feel that at a fundamental level josh knows the same as sneak about the game and competition, and in a conversation he may explain to sneak:

"i'm aware of all that, and that's why i still play melee and think its a great game worth improving at. i'm definitely not trying to start an argument about melee's competitive balance. all i'm doing is expressing how the game's abstracts can make a person very frustrated, and originally it was just a reply to properly defend myself because mahone legitimately called me out regarding my skill-level."

try to remember that josh may explain the feeling of things more than he is trying to state the supreme actuality of every situation. i do not think he intends his statements to be taken in the context of extreme competitive detail.

I was literally typing this post. I sometimes feel like Austin may be one of the only people on these boards who understands anything that I say or the way that I think.

Bolded for key points.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

you're both right.

i'm playing more fox.


chaddd.

 

[Dark Hart]

I mean, how would I sound saying "You only beat me when you took advantage of situations to easily kill me multiple times a match". Is taking a less efficient and more difficult route to take a stock the only legit way to win? To me that would seem like a more limiting mindset

this this this this this this this this sooooo much of thiiiiiiiiis

<3 sneak

Make a $10 combo vid out of me anyday

 

[Foxy]

im glad it didnt go

'wtf... why would you think i would say that"

looolz


and yes sometimes people forget origins of discussions and just assume there is a direct comparision of ideas, instead of people just talkin bout what dey thinkin bout