ChronoBound
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 8,998
NOTE: I got permission from SamuraiPanda to post this topic. This topic also deals with the entire Smash Bros. series not just the original, as it is a celebration of the entire series turning ten years old.
To coincide with the tenth-year anniversary date for the release of the original Super Smash Bros. in Japan I have decided to create a new topic commemorating the release of the title that launched one of Nintendo’s most popular and acclaimed series, Super Smash Bros. There will be a new topic introduced each week in this thread celebrating ten years of Smash Bros. I hope to discuss both Smash Bros. history and the future of the series with this topic, as well as the community to share their experiences with the Smash Bros. and what the series has meant to him or her. I will edit the opening post each week with a new essay relating to Smash Bros. I hope you will enjoy this topic.
The topic I wish to discuss this week is the history of the roster to the Smash series, and the reasoning behind the decisions that were made for the roster to each Smash game.
Why I think clones are necessary for future Smash Bros. installments
Clones have been a staple in fighting games. Ken, one of the most popular characters in the Street Fighter series, started off as a clone of Ryu. However, I don’t feel like lecturing you all about the history of clones in fighting games, so I will just talk about the history of clones in the Super Smash Bros. series. The first Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 64 only had one clone Luigi. Many people did not mind the presence of there being a clone since the character in question (Luigi) was quite popular.
However, in Melee, clones would get the scorn of the Smash Bros. fanbase. In this game, there were six clones and one Luigified clone. A Luigified clone refers to a character that shares most of the same specials, but either has some different A-moves or completely different A-moves. Luigi was the only Luigi-fied clone. The clones themselves consisted of Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link. While some of these clones became popular (Ganondorf, Falco, and Roy), the other half was despised (though Doc earned a niche for himself due to him being tourney viable). Doc, Young Link, and Pichu were hated by many casual fans of Smash Bros. for being different versions of the same character (though upon retrospect Dr. Mario was a really wise choice, even though Sakurai put him in for the wrong reasons).
Many people cursed the inclusion of clones and felt that Sakurai only placed them since his team lacked the creative ingenuity to craft more movesets. However, as some of you may know, this was not the case. Originally, Sakurai was only planning on having 19 characters (20 including Sheik). However, once the team was done programming, they felt the roster was a bit too small, and realized they had enough time to either implement one more unique character or six model swaps (as they are referred to by Sakurai). Sakurai opted for the six model swaps, as he felt people would enjoy six new characters over one new one. I explain earlier in this topic why Sakurai selected the clones he did for Melee, so I am not going to repeat it. However, I will say that had it not been for clones, Falco probably would not have ever have gotten in Smash Bros. as a playable character (as that as of late both Wolf and Krystal are more popular, though Falco is saved due to him being one of the most used characters in both Melee and Brawl due to his high position on the tier list), and it is likely that Wolf would have been the only other character that Star Fox would have gotten in Brawl. The same goes for Roy and Doc (as well as Pichu and Young Link), however, those characters have less of a fanbase than Falco. I will elaborate on how clones actually dramatically increase the prospects of certain characters.
Prior to Brawl, many people were hoping for the abolition of clones, and at the very least hoping for a declined Ganondorf. However, in an earlier essay not in this topic (the essay I made regarding the fate of the Forbidden 7) I mentioned that Sakurai entered Brawl’s development with the same mindset that he had when making Melee, which was that clones are a good thing and help to boost up the roster. Sakurai was likely planning for Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf (though there is a good chance that he was not on the originally planned Brawl roster), Plusle & Minun, Dixie Kong (though it has been said by Sakurai that she was simply going to tag-team with Diddy), Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik to be clones.
However, somewhere along Brawl’s development Sakurai caught wind of the disdain his fans had for clones and cut many of the planned clones he had on his roster (Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik). He then decided to make the clones he decided to keep in (Ganondorf, Falco, Toon Link, Lucas, and probably Roy) Luigified in some regard. (Later on Sakurai would swap Mewtwo and Roy’s place on the roster for Sonic and Wolf). Some “clones” such as Wolf and Lucas were only similar to their original counterparts for their specials and final smash, and had completely different A-moves and throws. However, some such as Ganondorf, Falco, and Toon Link, were only given a few different A-moves (especially in the case of Toon Link, who is the closest to a regular clone in Brawl).
However, despite there being more of an effort this time to make the clones more unique, many Smash Bros. fans still complained about them. Many people don’t realize that clones are actually a blessing. Clones help to boost up the roster (especially when development time is limited), increase the chances and allow for less likely characters to get in over more important ones (like how Dr. Mario was able to get in before Wario). A character such as Vaati would never be seriously considered (assuming he does not get any more games) for a newcomer list that only consisted of non-clone characters due to him not being important enough to warrant the development time needed to make a unique character. However, he would be one of the top contenders if Sakurai’s team went “clone crazy” as he would be an easy Zelda clone (really he would only need to have the magic changed to wind and dark magic, as well as have a new down-b and Final Smash).
Clones are especially important now more than ever. Sakurai’s struggled to get to 39 characters in Brawl, and since it is likely that Nintendo’s next console will have a sizable leap in graphical and technological prowess over the Wii (it should be about on par with the 360 or PS3), then Sakurai’s team will have an even more difficult time implementing a sizable increase for the roster. Assuming no characters from Brawl are cut, I can only see ten newcomers for this possible situation. However, many people make up the Smash Bros. fanbase would be hungry for more characters, and I would “rage” to find out that Smash 4 only have 10 new characters.
That is where clones come in. Making five clones takes the effort of making one character (or at least that was what Sakurai implied back with Melee). Putting in five clones would boost the roster up to 50. However, I can see many people objecting to this. However, I think one of the main reasons people object to clones, if that in Melee, some of them (in their eyes) were poor choices. If I were to select 5 clones for Smash Bros. 4, I would try to select characters that were popularly requested and important to their respective series. I am hoping this list will show you the potential that clones could offer in Smash Bros. 4, and how their inclusion would probably help boost the prospects for a lot of your favorite characters.
Here is a list I compiled for characters that I might select if I was told to place in five clone newcomers (as a result of not having enough time place in five unique characters):
*Note: Yes, I realize that a lot of these clone characters have the potential to be unique characters with unique movesets, however, I am simply listing characters that would also make good clones to select. I don’t have a reasoning for every character on this list, however, I can say that most of them are important to a degree within their respective series. Also, I would not clones that are third-party characters, as I feel there should only be one character per third-party series.
Mario:
Bowser Jr. (Bowser clone)
Donkey Kong:
Dixie Kong (Diddy clone)
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong clone)
The Legend of Zelda:
Vaati (Zelda clone)
Tetra (Sheik clone)
Metroid:
Dark Samus (Samus clone)
Star Fox: (though I don’t think the series needs a fourth character)
Leon (Falco or Wolf clone) (though its already redundant)
Pokemon:
Pichu (Pikachu clone)
Mother: (though I don’t think the series needs as many characters as it has games)
Kumatora (Lucas clone)
Masked Boy (Lucas clone)
Paula (Ness clone)
Poo (Ness clone)
F-Zero:
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon clone)
Pico (Snake clone, though he is not that important)
Fire Emblem:
Roy (Marth clone)
Sigurd (Marth or Ike clone)
Celice (Marth clone)
Dr. Mario:
Dr. Mario (Mario clone)
Golden Sun:
Isaac (Zelda clone) (yes, surprisingly, Isaac could be pulled off as a Zelda clone assuming he was given a different down-b and final smash)
Mach Rider:
Mach Rider (Captain Falcon clone)
A lot of the characters in the above list are quite popular, and I am sure many people would rather have their beloved character in as a clone as opposed to not in at all. The likelihood of clones being used, also dramatically increases these characters’ chances of being in. I think if the clones that were chosen were of popular or important characters and if it was explained that there was simply not enough time to flesh them out into unique characters, then I think most Smash Bros. fans would understand. I am hoping that this essay has helped to convince you that clones are not something to be admonished, but are something that may be utterly necessary in order to boost the newcomer count for Smash Bros. 4 and also help make characters, who otherwise would not get in, a shot of being placed in the game’s roster.
The whole point of Smash Bros. is represent Nintendo’s history all the while playing as your favorite character. If the clones in question fulfill both of these obligations, then why object to them? One more character is simply one more character, and if the clones help to represent an aspect of that series (or even an unrepresented series) then they definitely have a place in Smash Bros. If Sakurai, or anyone else were to direct Smash Bros. 4, I am hoping their team would have time to implement all the characters on the planned roster, however, if he doesn't have the time, I am hoping that some of the clone selections will make up for it, and that fans enjoy these characters as much as the original additions he had planned.
To coincide with the tenth-year anniversary date for the release of the original Super Smash Bros. in Japan I have decided to create a new topic commemorating the release of the title that launched one of Nintendo’s most popular and acclaimed series, Super Smash Bros. There will be a new topic introduced each week in this thread celebrating ten years of Smash Bros. I hope to discuss both Smash Bros. history and the future of the series with this topic, as well as the community to share their experiences with the Smash Bros. and what the series has meant to him or her. I will edit the opening post each week with a new essay relating to Smash Bros. I hope you will enjoy this topic.
The topic I wish to discuss this week is the history of the roster to the Smash series, and the reasoning behind the decisions that were made for the roster to each Smash game.
Why I think clones are necessary for future Smash Bros. installments
Clones have been a staple in fighting games. Ken, one of the most popular characters in the Street Fighter series, started off as a clone of Ryu. However, I don’t feel like lecturing you all about the history of clones in fighting games, so I will just talk about the history of clones in the Super Smash Bros. series. The first Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 64 only had one clone Luigi. Many people did not mind the presence of there being a clone since the character in question (Luigi) was quite popular.
However, in Melee, clones would get the scorn of the Smash Bros. fanbase. In this game, there were six clones and one Luigified clone. A Luigified clone refers to a character that shares most of the same specials, but either has some different A-moves or completely different A-moves. Luigi was the only Luigi-fied clone. The clones themselves consisted of Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link. While some of these clones became popular (Ganondorf, Falco, and Roy), the other half was despised (though Doc earned a niche for himself due to him being tourney viable). Doc, Young Link, and Pichu were hated by many casual fans of Smash Bros. for being different versions of the same character (though upon retrospect Dr. Mario was a really wise choice, even though Sakurai put him in for the wrong reasons).
Many people cursed the inclusion of clones and felt that Sakurai only placed them since his team lacked the creative ingenuity to craft more movesets. However, as some of you may know, this was not the case. Originally, Sakurai was only planning on having 19 characters (20 including Sheik). However, once the team was done programming, they felt the roster was a bit too small, and realized they had enough time to either implement one more unique character or six model swaps (as they are referred to by Sakurai). Sakurai opted for the six model swaps, as he felt people would enjoy six new characters over one new one. I explain earlier in this topic why Sakurai selected the clones he did for Melee, so I am not going to repeat it. However, I will say that had it not been for clones, Falco probably would not have ever have gotten in Smash Bros. as a playable character (as that as of late both Wolf and Krystal are more popular, though Falco is saved due to him being one of the most used characters in both Melee and Brawl due to his high position on the tier list), and it is likely that Wolf would have been the only other character that Star Fox would have gotten in Brawl. The same goes for Roy and Doc (as well as Pichu and Young Link), however, those characters have less of a fanbase than Falco. I will elaborate on how clones actually dramatically increase the prospects of certain characters.
Prior to Brawl, many people were hoping for the abolition of clones, and at the very least hoping for a declined Ganondorf. However, in an earlier essay not in this topic (the essay I made regarding the fate of the Forbidden 7) I mentioned that Sakurai entered Brawl’s development with the same mindset that he had when making Melee, which was that clones are a good thing and help to boost up the roster. Sakurai was likely planning for Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf (though there is a good chance that he was not on the originally planned Brawl roster), Plusle & Minun, Dixie Kong (though it has been said by Sakurai that she was simply going to tag-team with Diddy), Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik to be clones.
However, somewhere along Brawl’s development Sakurai caught wind of the disdain his fans had for clones and cut many of the planned clones he had on his roster (Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik). He then decided to make the clones he decided to keep in (Ganondorf, Falco, Toon Link, Lucas, and probably Roy) Luigified in some regard. (Later on Sakurai would swap Mewtwo and Roy’s place on the roster for Sonic and Wolf). Some “clones” such as Wolf and Lucas were only similar to their original counterparts for their specials and final smash, and had completely different A-moves and throws. However, some such as Ganondorf, Falco, and Toon Link, were only given a few different A-moves (especially in the case of Toon Link, who is the closest to a regular clone in Brawl).
However, despite there being more of an effort this time to make the clones more unique, many Smash Bros. fans still complained about them. Many people don’t realize that clones are actually a blessing. Clones help to boost up the roster (especially when development time is limited), increase the chances and allow for less likely characters to get in over more important ones (like how Dr. Mario was able to get in before Wario). A character such as Vaati would never be seriously considered (assuming he does not get any more games) for a newcomer list that only consisted of non-clone characters due to him not being important enough to warrant the development time needed to make a unique character. However, he would be one of the top contenders if Sakurai’s team went “clone crazy” as he would be an easy Zelda clone (really he would only need to have the magic changed to wind and dark magic, as well as have a new down-b and Final Smash).
Clones are especially important now more than ever. Sakurai’s struggled to get to 39 characters in Brawl, and since it is likely that Nintendo’s next console will have a sizable leap in graphical and technological prowess over the Wii (it should be about on par with the 360 or PS3), then Sakurai’s team will have an even more difficult time implementing a sizable increase for the roster. Assuming no characters from Brawl are cut, I can only see ten newcomers for this possible situation. However, many people make up the Smash Bros. fanbase would be hungry for more characters, and I would “rage” to find out that Smash 4 only have 10 new characters.
That is where clones come in. Making five clones takes the effort of making one character (or at least that was what Sakurai implied back with Melee). Putting in five clones would boost the roster up to 50. However, I can see many people objecting to this. However, I think one of the main reasons people object to clones, if that in Melee, some of them (in their eyes) were poor choices. If I were to select 5 clones for Smash Bros. 4, I would try to select characters that were popularly requested and important to their respective series. I am hoping this list will show you the potential that clones could offer in Smash Bros. 4, and how their inclusion would probably help boost the prospects for a lot of your favorite characters.
Here is a list I compiled for characters that I might select if I was told to place in five clone newcomers (as a result of not having enough time place in five unique characters):
*Note: Yes, I realize that a lot of these clone characters have the potential to be unique characters with unique movesets, however, I am simply listing characters that would also make good clones to select. I don’t have a reasoning for every character on this list, however, I can say that most of them are important to a degree within their respective series. Also, I would not clones that are third-party characters, as I feel there should only be one character per third-party series.
Mario:
Bowser Jr. (Bowser clone)
Donkey Kong:
Dixie Kong (Diddy clone)
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong clone)
The Legend of Zelda:
Vaati (Zelda clone)
Tetra (Sheik clone)
Metroid:
Dark Samus (Samus clone)
Star Fox: (though I don’t think the series needs a fourth character)
Leon (Falco or Wolf clone) (though its already redundant)
Pokemon:
Pichu (Pikachu clone)
Mother: (though I don’t think the series needs as many characters as it has games)
Kumatora (Lucas clone)
Masked Boy (Lucas clone)
Paula (Ness clone)
Poo (Ness clone)
F-Zero:
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon clone)
Pico (Snake clone, though he is not that important)
Fire Emblem:
Roy (Marth clone)
Sigurd (Marth or Ike clone)
Celice (Marth clone)
Dr. Mario:
Dr. Mario (Mario clone)
Golden Sun:
Isaac (Zelda clone) (yes, surprisingly, Isaac could be pulled off as a Zelda clone assuming he was given a different down-b and final smash)
Mach Rider:
Mach Rider (Captain Falcon clone)
A lot of the characters in the above list are quite popular, and I am sure many people would rather have their beloved character in as a clone as opposed to not in at all. The likelihood of clones being used, also dramatically increases these characters’ chances of being in. I think if the clones that were chosen were of popular or important characters and if it was explained that there was simply not enough time to flesh them out into unique characters, then I think most Smash Bros. fans would understand. I am hoping that this essay has helped to convince you that clones are not something to be admonished, but are something that may be utterly necessary in order to boost the newcomer count for Smash Bros. 4 and also help make characters, who otherwise would not get in, a shot of being placed in the game’s roster.
The whole point of Smash Bros. is represent Nintendo’s history all the while playing as your favorite character. If the clones in question fulfill both of these obligations, then why object to them? One more character is simply one more character, and if the clones help to represent an aspect of that series (or even an unrepresented series) then they definitely have a place in Smash Bros. If Sakurai, or anyone else were to direct Smash Bros. 4, I am hoping their team would have time to implement all the characters on the planned roster, however, if he doesn't have the time, I am hoping that some of the clone selections will make up for it, and that fans enjoy these characters as much as the original additions he had planned.
