Multiple beams...?

[BronzeGreekGod]

Okay so everyones saying Samus will have more than one beam... but based on the video, they only show her A attacks changing.. I dont see another beam. So is there in fact an ice beam?

And also, will there be more than just one other beam? Will the plasma or any other beam be implemented as well?

 

[Hinata]

Okay so everyones saying Samus will have more than one beam... but based on the video, they only show her A attacks changing.. I dont see another beam. So is there in fact an ice beam?

And also, will there be more than just one other beam? Will the plasma or any other beam be implemented as well?

From my understanding, the beam changes affect the properties of her attacks too.

Also, the standard and Ice Beam are the only ones Samus has.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

From my understanding, the beam changes affect the properties of her attacks too.

Also, the standard and Ice Beam are the only ones Samus has.

K like... are we talking about her B charge attack? It will shoot an ice ball or beam or something instead of her normal blast?

 

[Hinata]

K like... are we talking about her B charge attack? It will shoot an ice ball or beam or something instead of her normal blast?

Nah, I don't think so. I think it'll just have ice properties.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Nah, I don't think so. I think it'll just have ice properties.

Okay thats what i was trying to figure out.. When people say ice beam i think she will have an ice beam to SHOOT at people lol

 

[SSS]

Okay thats what i was trying to figure out.. When people say ice beam i think she will have an ice beam to SHOOT at people lol

She different effects for her down, forward, and upsmash, and her forward air. Also Upsmash and Forward air have different animations and different hitboxes.

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

Okay thats what i was trying to figure out.. When people say ice beam i think she will have an ice beam to SHOOT at people lol

Yea that would be pretty insane if she could swap most of her moveset just like that and looking at how fast all her moves are she could probably be one of the best in pm

 

[MonkUnit]

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

K ya.. but those aren't beams to me lol. Just misunderstood the language theyre using to describe this concept.

 

[JRC LSS]

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but does anyone else foresee the samus metagame favoring one beam only? I feel like for a particular matchup (or even in general), one beam will just be better than the other, meaning no one will switch mid-match. It's like how Nintendo intended for zelda players to switch back and forth between zelda and sheik during matches, and yet almost no one does. Don't get me wrong, the new ice beam attacks look really cool and I'm really excited to play 3.0 samus, I'm just starting to look ahead here.

 

[GeZ]

Her Neutral B Charge won't be affected by the stance change, that thing stays the same. Instead her missiles may be getting an ice variant (last I heard though they may have scrapped that). And In response to JRC LSS the beams are well balanced enough that favoring one won't be a better option ever. They work different enough that using them will be a matter of utility rather than preference. In the matches I've played I've swapped between the beams without killing my opponent because I felt that one worked better at higher percents and one worked better at lower percents. But the "one beam being better than the other" is definitely not an issue as the PMBR balanced it so that that wouldn't occur. They said that if one was better than the other, they would've just incorporated some of those new properties into her original moves and scrapped the beam changes.

 

[jtm94]

I foresee ice missles or ice beams to be good gimping moves, but maybe that's just me.

 

[-Whiplash-]

does the whole taunt animation need to be done for the swap to activate or can you be hit out of it?

 

[ph00tbag]

I just find the whole thing degrading.

 

[MagnesD3]

I hope there is ice, wave and fire beams..

 

[Burnsy]

I just find the whole thing degrading.

#nofunallowed

 

[BigHairyFart]

Well, I guess my X button is changing from Up-Taunt to Side-Taunt now.

 

[GeZ]

I hope there is ice, wave and fire beams..

I don't see that happening. Soz dude.

I foresee ice missles or ice beams to be good gimping moves, but maybe that's just me.

In my experience they combo well, while they're more meant for racking up damage, while I used the regular beam for killing.

 

[GeZ]

does the whole taunt animation need to be done for the swap to activate or can you be hit out of it?

And you do have to go through the whole animation for it to change, not just start it.

 

[Juushichi]

I just find the whole thing degrading.

why

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I hope there is ice, wave and fire beams..

I'd absolutely love Wave Beam, but I'm not too sure what kind of utility it could add that Plasma and Ice doesn't already do. 2 variety of beams already seem a bit hard to balance and make both useful.

Either way, I'm in love with this change.

 

[MagnesD3]

Well it's cool Samus has ice but isn't that really random if she doesn't get the rest of her beams...?

 

[ph00tbag]

why

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ****ery where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

 

[Shell]

The fire/ice stance swap system is certainly equal parts style and substance but that doesn’t mean that we didn’t tackle fundamental design issues first. Sorry more substantial stuff wasn’t covered in the video but frankly we chose to demonstrate the most visually interesting changes (stance system, air charging, crawling) in our limited amount of video time.

Not shown in the video are newly animated rolls. With the ability to freely crawl about in ball form having ball rolls was not only confusing visually, but her melee rolls were actually so bad that they transcended being a good character weakness and cut into her viability a little too much. Her new rolls aren’t stellar, but provide another welcome (but situational) pressure relief tool.

Additionally, her grabs are slightly faster in startup, duration, and cooldown compared to Melee. Again this works in conjunction with the roll changes to mediate some pressure, and also boosts her offensive options without homogenizing her too much. After a lot of discussion between Samus testers Grabs + Rolls were generally agreed to some of the most important and sensitive components of Samus’s viability fulcrum.

Getting back to the stance system, we felt like PM Samus was losing access to some cool Melee tools – including Extender and Melee-styled wall tethering. We wanted to craft another cool niche tool that was *roughly* lore appropriate to make up for these losses and variations of a stance system were commonly requested by community members. Granted they’re not equivalent in function or role by any means. The stance system isn’t intended to overhaul or totally replace her existing moveset, but acts as one way to give it a slightly different optional flavor. Did she -need- this? No, but since we addressed what we felt she truly needed first with core moveset tweaks and offered this as a purely optional, straightforward tool I don’t really see any reason to get too upset.

As for Super Wavedash, this was a massively requested AT since day 1. Sorry it doesn’t fit into your ideal Samus but we do have to cater to a (relatively) large community, and the majority of the community seems pretty set on this.

 

[trash?]

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ******y where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

glad to see you know all the intricacies and intentions of a design that we know literally nothing about past a few seconds of footage

 

[Sarix]

I feel like the stance system would allow her to retain her strong spacing game from Melee in addition to actually gaining offensive pressure and combo tools so she is an overall more versatile character rather than purely defensive. Fire mode or [f] as I label it seems to be melee Samus with some tweaks, still retaining her strong spacing game. I imagine she combo opponents in Ice mode or more easily though. If this is how the beam stance functions then I'm going to really excited for when she does come out.

If it doesn't then oh well, I'll still probably aim to use both stances fluidly together.

 

[Veishi336]

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ******y where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

Why do i keep seeing this around the pm area? Where folks think a new addition that might add more of a variety to gameplay is "unprofessional" or "degrading". I really don't get it. They didn't throw the professionalism out the window with doing this. That's just like saying if sakurai added something to this extent in SSB4 (beam changing or maybe even something else) it'd be unprofessional and idiotic of him to do so. Giving a character another set of options doesn't seem like nonsense or degrading.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ******y where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

Your right, how DARE the PMBR give a character "new" and "fun" aspects to there play style! they should just copy over her melee iteration 1:1 because thats the only professional way to do it.

 

[Orngeblu]

I REALLY wonder if that stage will be playable or not. I can see it being a PERFECT Wi-Fi practice stage. I wonder if that is what it is, though. It looks sick. (Or maybe it's just for show...)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I REALLY wonder if that stage will be playable on or not. I can see it being a PERFECT Wi-Fi practice stage. I wonder if that is what it is, though. It looks sick. (Or maybe it's just for show...)

I REALLY hope I can play this stage

 

[standardtoaster]

that stage is playable and will be on page 2

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

that stage is playable and will be on page 2

YOU HAVE MADE ME THE HAPPIEST PERSON ALIVE! I`M GOING TO GIVE THE NEXT PERSON I SEE A HUG!

 

[Veishi336]

well it looks like warchamp said it will be in
edit: im late to the response lol...i see its already answered
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m287/roxas336/uiofv_zps22a695b9.png

 

[Orngeblu]

that stage is playable and will be on page 2

<3 THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[GeZ]

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ******y where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

The posts above outline most of what I would say to your comment but I feel there's still something to add, which is that this decision was done as something fun but also functional. The PMBR designs this entire project from a competitive view point. To assume that this one decision was done in a silly manner because they felt like it is blind as it is stupendously counter evident to what's been shown off in all the history of this project. Plus, again, you're being dismissive of something that you saw a bit less than a minute of highlights of.

 

[ph00tbag]

glad to see you know all the intricacies and intentions of a design that we know literally nothing about past a few seconds of footage

This design is slightly more involved than a version of Samus that I played a couple months back, before they had the ability to give the ice beams different animations, and it certainly addresses some areas where Samus could have improved. But I'm pretty certain, from having been able to follow her development indirectly, that the process for this was more or less, "we can do this now, so let's put it in." It happened to dovetail with the wild-hair ideas that seemed to always infect the Character Idea Submission Thread. Which brings me to this.

As for Super Wavedash, this was a massively requested AT since day 1. Sorry it doesn’t fit into your ideal Samus but we do have to cater to a (relatively) large community, and the majority of the community seems pretty set on this.

The sense that both seem to be caving to popular demands rather than asking the question, "is this really what Samus needs?" is what I find so unprofessional. Sure, both things are cute and flashy, but when the drive to "cater" to popular demand simply because it's popular overrides the desire to have a game that eschews superfluity, I can't really stay silent.

Getting back to the stance system, we felt like PM Samus was losing access to some cool Melee tools – including Extender and Melee-styled wall tethering. We wanted to craft another cool niche tool that was *roughly* lore appropriate to make up for these losses and variations of a stance system were commonly requested by community members. Granted they’re not equivalent in function or role by any means. The stance system isn’t intended to overhaul or totally replace her existing moveset, but acts as one way to give it a slightly different optional flavor. Did she -need- this? No, but since we addressed what we felt she truly needed first with core moveset tweaks and offered this as a purely optional, straightforward tool I don’t really see any reason to get too upset.

Ultimately, this comes down a fundamental difference of perception that has really plagued Samus for the lifespan of Melee. There has always been a faction of people who seemed to perceive her as the "trickshot" character, with all sorts of neato hidden tools. But if one spent enough time on the Samus boards back in '06 and '07, there was a distinct impression that this perception was disparaged, because the players that devoted a lot of time to really thinking about Samus and pushing her metagame forward had by and large abandoned that playstyle, and really only tried for all that stuff to demonstrate disrespect for their opponent. They knew that Samus was a much more cerebral character that was more about awareness of habit and spacing. In this view, Extender was only debatably useful, and even then the argument for its utility was mostly upheld by the fact that it was unquestionably a massive buff to Samus's grab; and SWD was more or less seen as showboating. The only thing that has been lost is really the wall-tether stuff, and that's been replaced by new tricks that arise from the Brawl tether mechanics, which are probably actually better in the long run, at least within range of the ledge.

And don't get me wrong, I actually liked the Extender in Melee, and felt that it was underutilized. But Extender was an install, which is a pure buff at substantial cost, which brings its ultimate pros and cons to an even keel, making its inclusion pretty trivial, as is the case with many installs. This is why there was debate, not widespread acceptance, of Extender's utility. The question was always, "is it really worth it to take time that could be used for charging the charge shot, so you can get a better grab?" The stance-change beam is just that--a stance change. And stance changes are typically not trivial. In fact, the swings in playstyle they usually necessitate almost always make them central to the character. That's the opposite of trivial. We're talking about making a typically character-defining design trait that's being used as an Easter Egg. This is another part of the problem, and it's what makes the stance change feel so unprofessional to me. The fact that Beam Change was presented as an even exchange for Extender without really considering the typological differences between the two makes me wonder...

 

[GeZ]

But it's not an Easter Egg type of tool. It's being added to broaden her game. You see this entire addition as a novelty item which I don't understand because it has use. It gives her versatility. It's not added to pay homage to the idea that Samus is a trick-shot character, as much as it's added to give a character more versatility and options. The change alters the knockback of her attacks with is a potential boon to her spacing game. I think that this addition should be viewed from the perspective of it being a large addition to her existing meta game.
Also with the Super Wavedash, it's something that the fans wanted, that could only help her game, that required solely time on the dev's part. I don't understand your outlash at that as it's simply a requested readdition to her tool set and doesn't hurt the character at all. Even if it's a novelty thing, it's something people wanted and the devs delivered, which doesn't adversely effect your interaction with the character or the metagame for that character besides your disdain of it's inclusion.
Think not of these changes as emblematic, but instead as what they are. Additions to the existing strategy Samus employs, which are currently unaccompanied by debufs of any sort. I don't see how this news is not cause for rejoice.

 

[NWRL]

It's a silly mechanic introduced mostly because "lol look what we can do!" and not because Samus needed it, or because it made any kind of sense in the context of Samus' fighting style. This and the reintroduction of SWD are just developer ******y where I'd really hoped the PMBR had learned to start approaching the design of the game with a sense of professionalism.

That's your opinion dude, they are approaching it with professionalism. The Ice Beam fits Samus' style and gives her some fun utility.

 

[0RLY]

Does the side taunt have to finish in order to switch beam? Can I taunt cancel and still switch beams?

 

[lukifer]

Does the side taunt have to finish in order to switch beam? Can I taunt cancel and still switch beams?

Yes, the animation needs to complete. See http://smashboards.com/threads/multiple-beams.342670/#post-16016459