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Most Nerfed & Most Buffed

JigglyZelda003

JigglyZelda003

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
um did anyone actually try to main Zelda and not just Sheik in melee? I did and to me she doesn't have any really big buffs just easier to use since she can camp very well w/ the new dins fire. almost all her moves have the same after attack lag where she's left open. on some stages she can KO some people at lower percents but on most its similar to Mario's KO potential. she can even be super predicable at times and she's lighter than she was in melee. i've taken hits with Peach that i can come down from but on Zelda its background time >.> and she still sucks worse than sheik in 1 vs 1.
 
Jiggy37

Jiggy37

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
89
Buffed (most to least)

Mr. Game & Watch - He took some 2D steroids or something to increase his speed. (Back air and down air are stronger than before too, but that's not really what makes him buffed.)

Zelda - Neutral air is better, up air is better, down air is better, Din's Fire is better, Nayru's Love is better, up smash is better, forward smash is better, up tilt is better. And I've probably missed a few things. Zelda's improvement is almost as noteworthy as Game & Watch's, but for completely different reasons.

Toon Link - If he counts, he's definitely a significant improvement. Back air, forward air, neutral air, down air, down smash, up smash, and forward smash are all notable.

Luigi - Better forward smash, better back air, and he can actually recover now. Those things make up for a weaker forward air and slower down smash.

Kirby - Slight improvement. Back air is very good, forward air and forward smash are more usable than before.



Nerfed (most to least)

Captain Falcon - It's like he and Mr. Game & Watch traded places. :(

Peach - They murdered her second jump, which makes no sense considering how well the likes of Pit and Meta Knight can fly around, and her down smash is pitiful.

Ganondorf - Fell almost as far from grace as Peach.

Jigglypuff - Sucks in this physics engine. Fell almost as far from grace as Ganondorf.

Sheik - Sheik is still good, actually, which is why she isn't that nerfed. She just has new issues finishing the job.



About the same

Falco - Much different from before, but I wouldn't call him worse off for it.

Mario - I would say Mario himself is roughly the same, but a very large majority of the cast simply outclasses him.

Marth - Now has KO power on pretty much all of his moves to compensate for the shorter range.

Pikachu - Traded an incredible up smash to get a great down smash and less cooldown on Thunder. I'll call it a wash.
 
IC3R

IC3R

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
1,623
Location
Fayetteville, GA
These are just from my experience, and I basically have it in Gain/Loss form; the reverse for the Nerfed

============

Buffed:
Kirby (My main) - Stronger Smashes, better priority on kicks altogether, a useable hammer (in terms of KOing), faster Dash with a smexy Dash Attack, the Nair has better range and a good use now (auto-cancel FTW), easier combo ability, Throws are inescapeable now, funky Grab "hitbox", Final Cutter has more horizontal coverage, executes faster, and gets all three hits, the best crouching sound ever...
Losses: Lost Uber-priority on Inhale, the throws lost Kirbycide ability, the Stone is breakable, "HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!"

Zelda (My secondary) - Faster dash, Din's Fire has godly range now, Nayru's Love cover a wider area and has excellent knockback, Farore's Wind damage on "exit" and "entry" now, Smashes are stronger, Dair has a beautiful reward for sweetspotting it, and the other aerials are just great, became a total hottie >_>;
Losses: Fair and Bair seem a little harder to land correctly, feels lighter than in Melee

Ness - Faster PK Flash, projectile-killing PK Fire, pushback on PSI Magnet, a Dair that can kill at 0% (WTF?!?!?!) and spike through water, the Yo-yo Smashes are now viable KO moves, PK Thunder is a whole lot faster, PK Thunder2 can kill all characters at 40%-60% (depending on weight) and has SuperArmour frames, Fair is less punishable
Losses: Slower bat, PK Flash is slightly smaller

G&W - Nair is awesome (Fishies!!!!), Bair just seems godly now, D-Smash increased in power, Kamikaze (why call it that?) has invincibilty frames throughout almost the entire attack and the parachute part aids in horizontal recovery, which can be cancelled into any aerial, the Dair easily Meteors and sends G&W down (DI-able), Dair also has minimal landing lag compared to all other characters, Uair has air-stalling capability, F-Smash has such a long duration it'll hit anyone after they SpotDodge, Sausage Spike (???) - Note: Up-B + Dair = WaterStalling on Pirate Ship = best strategy ever
Losses: Umm...are there any?

Pikachu - Godly D-Smash, QAC, Thunder increased in power and speed and can go through certain platforms, better grab range, crawling ability (useful?), GOGGLEZ!!!!!!!!
Losses: Weaker U- and F-Smash, Uair doesn't seem to semi-spike anymore
Something Odd: Bair is no longer a "sex kick" but is now instead a multi-hit attack

Shiek - Amazing ground strength (uncharged U-Smash does like 25% or something with both hits), Bair and Nair have better KO potential, Needle Storm automatically cancels when fully-charged, higher jumps, longer range with Vanish, Dair sends Shiek down at an angle (useful because of the increased floatiness of Brawl's physics engine and gets Shiek back to ground quickly, where her game is stronger, and the landing lag isn't completely horrible like Toon Link's)
Losses: The Fair (Shiek's coolest KO move) is no longer Shiek's coolest KO move, the Whip Chain is blegh, lessened combo ability with tilts, no more Chain Grab (?)


Ah...Kirby, Pikachu, and Ness are back where they belong: High Tier...

=============

Nerfed:
C. Falcon - Ugh, this list will be too long to describe how Falcon got it up the arse...
Gains: Falcon Dive actually damages without the "humping" animation, Turnaround PAUNCH

Samus - ******** Missiles, no more Bomb-Jumping, Nair lost its crazy priority, slower on the ground, and she looks shorter for some reason
Gains: Zero Suit Samus...YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! <-- All possible gains went here

Fox (punk deserved it) - U-Smash and U-air lost a lot of KO potential, Bair is no longer a semi-sex kick, no jumping out of Shine (I haven't been able to, anyway), D-Throw lost awesome Meteor ability and tech-chasing use, seems a bit slower on the ground (may just be because of Sonic lol), Blaster doesn't stretch across the stage for less spamability
Gains: Higher jumps, stronger D-Smash, F-Smash seems better-ranged, doesn't fall like a brick anymore

Jigglypuff - Oh so slow on the ground, Rest lost tons of power, being the only one with godly aerial mobility, weaker aerial attacks, Smashes are just...ugh...
Gains: Pound has some sort of "clipping" ability, Rest has a Lip's Stick effect and has shorter ending lag (when Jiggs is sleeping)

Peach - Shorter double-jump, Bair lost a bit of priority, Dair doesn't combo as well, Turnips just seem ******** now (except for ol' stitch-lips), Smashes appear slightly weaker except for the Tennis Racket, Peach Bomber is weaker
Gains: Killer U-tilt, Peach Bomber seems linkable with certain moves, Parasol gained tons of height, Fair is stronger, she skips when she "powerwalks"...how cute... -^.^-

Mario - Mario Tornado got shifted to Dair, lost its height-gaining ability, and got replaced with that PoS FLUDD, the Cape gives less horizontal "stalling", aerials are slightly weaker, U-Smash is less powerful
Gains: F-Smash now rears back for charging (like Yoshi), allowing for slight dodge-and-hit capability, D-Smash increased in range and power

=============

Iffy Characters:
Marth: Pretty prince still High Tier?
Gains - Stronger U-Smash (with drawn-in hitboxes), self-comboing Blade Dance, the best Counter in the game (and the only useable one at that), Shield Breaker aids in recovery, and also eats through Shields quicker, Dolphin Slash has more invincibilty frames, plus good priority and power, all aerials have increased knockback, an insane new Pivot Grab, and a non-tipper U-Tilt can semi-spike (neat!)
Losses - Falchion (the sword) itself lost a bit of range, lost uber-range on grabs, loss of IASA (?) ruins awesome D-Tilt -> F-Smash combo somewhat
Yeah, he's still broken...

Yoshi: A new Tier for Mario's green savior?
Gains - Gains height with Egg Throw (important), F- and U-Smashes increased in range and(?) power, F-Tilt has more range, Pivot Grab, Reverse Power Roll, Yoshi Ground Pound has three parts with hitboxes (one on jump [NEW!], one on drop, and the counterattack stars)
Losses - No more DJC, double-jump has less SuperArmour frames, Bair and Dair are slower, doesn't get that "jump" with the Egg Roll, which also lost some priority, Nair decreased in awesomeness

Falco: King of the Dairs? With a new Moveset, we'll see...
Gains - No longer a Fox clone (WOOT!), seems slightly faster on the ground, Chain Grab with D-Throw, multi-hit Firebird, Phantasm is a stronger spike now, Blaster is still spammable as hell, tons of multi-hit attacks, F-Smash has amazing range, and U-Smash seems to have increased in power
Losses - No more pillaring with Shine + Dair, or jumping out of the Shine at all, Dair has two separate hitboxes though the desired spike is still easy to land, slightly weaker D-Smash and D-Tilt

Luigi: Finally rising above his brother?
Gains - Stronger Shield-stabbing F-Smash, Jump Punch isn't stupid anymore, stronger Bair (and Dair, I think), Cyclone doesn't cause an immense drop in height, Hyphen-Smashing from across half of Final Destination = Awesome
Losses - F-Smash has less range, Fair seems slower, D-Smash is slower and has less range, lack of Wavedashing makes Luigi's ground game kinda funky

Ganondorf: King of Evil playing new games?
Gains - SPARTA!!!! Kicks, U-Tilt has drawn-in hitboxes, badazz kamikaze attack (Side-B in the air), Turnaround Warlock Punch, tech-chasing with Flame Choke, stronger Fair and Bair, Dair has funky hitboxes, but comes with exponentially increasing power in coorelation to opponent's %, slightly higher jumps, and a better PowerHump (I dunno what to call it)
Losses - Wizard's Foot still spikes, but no longer gives an extra jump, making it another kamikaze attack (only less cool), funky hitboxes with Dair, Wizard's Foot can be ducked under by certain characters, his Jab is no longer one of the best...

============

EDITs: Moved Ganon to Iffy section, added Something Odd to Pika
 
B

blazefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
276
Location
Nanticoke PA. (East Coast USA)
I really don't agree with Jiggy or Ic3r...
Ganondorf, nerfed? How? He has an insanely better recovery, and one of the best tech-chases in the game (Side-B). There's nothing more satisfying then Ko'ing an opponent first, and if it gives you the lead, letting you Kamimaze your opponent, face planting them to oblivion (I've had it happen oh so many times trying to edge-guard)

Edit: I know his d-airs hit box was gimped ): and is side-airs harder to hit with, but the power he has has been pushed through the roof...
 
K

Karma*~

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
26
Location
South Carolina
Top 5 Buffed:
Olimar
Dedede
Wolf
Pit
Zamus

Top 5 Nerfed:
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Mewtwo
Roy
Young Link

On a more serious note:

Nerf: Jigglypuff, Sheik, Fox, C. Falcon, Ganondorf
Buff: G&W, Kirby, Pikachu, Zelda, Bowser
 
IC3R

IC3R

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
1,623
Location
Fayetteville, GA
blazefox said:
I really don't agree with Jiggy or Ic3r...
Ganondorf, nerfed? How? He has an insanely better recovery, and one of the best tech-chases in the game (Side-B). There's nothing more satisfying then Ko'ing an opponent first, and if it gives you the lead, letting you Kamimaze your opponent, face planting them to oblivion (I've had it happen oh so many times trying to edge-guard)

Edit: I know his d-airs hit box was gimped ): and is side-airs harder to hit with, but the power he has has been pushed through the roof...
Click to expand...
Hmm...I see where you're going with this. I hadn't known about tech-chasing with the Flame Choke, the only human players nearby aren't that good with teching, so it was always Side-B -> D-Tilt for me...

Yeah, I'll add you comments on Ganon, which will probably move him to the Iffy section, but we'll see...
 
F

furyberserk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
89
To JigglyZelda003, Mr. Game&Watch has no definate air killing attacks. The fair would be agains a noob, the uair, is to hard to land and likely the worse one to try land. The nair is no longer a large knockback hitbox anymore. The best move he has may be the only really good edgeguarding attack he has which is the dair. Game&Watch might have been buffed a lot with only two attacks or moves. The dair as an edgeguard to knock them down and the upB which will always allow him to return with the parachutte.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
blazefox said:
I really don't agree with Jiggy or Ic3r...
Ganondorf, nerfed? How? He has an insanely better recovery, and one of the best tech-chases in the game (Side-B). There's nothing more satisfying then Ko'ing an opponent first, and if it gives you the lead, letting you Kamimaze your opponent, face planting them to oblivion (I've had it happen oh so many times trying to edge-guard)

Edit: I know his d-airs hit box was gimped ): and is side-airs harder to hit with, but the power he has has been pushed through the roof...
Click to expand...
He now has a hard time approaching (no L-canceled aerials), his recovery actually gets much lesss distance than it did before, his jab comes out slower, he has less range, and his power has actually stayed about the same.

furyberserk said:
To JigglyZelda003, Mr. Game&Watch has no definate air killing attacks.
Click to expand...
Then stop trying to kill people with aerials. All of his smashes are very strong and have great range, with very little ending lag.
 
B

blazefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
276
Location
Nanticoke PA. (East Coast USA)
Sonic Wave, he doesn't have L-cancelled attacks, but his D-air auto cancels if you get the timing perfect. I can do 2 D-airs in .75 seconds if even that. And his recoveries distance HAS been shortened horizontally, but vertically his reach is at least 3 feet better. And, yes, his neutral A is a hell of alot slower, but it can be used as a great edge-guard setup pro-100%+. It sends you twice as far.
 
B-Mon

B-Mon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
321
Location
New York City
G&W has been BUFFED
His smashes are funeral set-ups
wtf man he's 2D, and seems to be able to the 3D world WAY too easily.
G&W = Buffed for no reason.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
blazefox said:
Sonic Wave, he doesn't have L-cancelled attacks, but his D-air auto cancels if you get the timing perfect. I can do 2 D-airs in .75 seconds if even that. And his recoveries distance HAS been shortened horizontally, but vertically his reach is at least 3 feet better. And, yes, his neutral A is a hell of alot slower, but it can be used as a great edge-guard setup pro-100%+. It sends you twice as far.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but how does he approach. His dair doesn't have that much horizontal range, and all his fair and uair aren't good for approaching grounded opponents. Side B is pretty good, but still easily reacted to in comparison to other characters approaches.


He also lost a lot of range on his fair, dair, and down tilt.

Though I do prefer his new smashes over the old ones.


His recovery does reach higher, but it's quite easy to just knock him to far sideways, even with DI. His old recovery would've been so much better in brawl. Grrr.... I'm not just talking about his up B by the way. His new up B is indeed better. But his old down B is something everyone misses.
 
L

LordZero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
41
Buffed:

G&W- honestly what the? How does someone 2D even hit and hit that hard?
Pichu (Pichu evolved it is the only explanation the old pika was cut)
Kirby-I am dissapointed that he does not have a combo copy (from the game on the 64) but he went from killing himself to killing others.

Nerfed:

Peach- grrrrrrrr, how could they now she is more like what I thought she would be like in every other game she has been in (at someone esles mercy)
 
Germanydabassist

Germanydabassist

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
17
Major Nerf: Peach
Peach's down-smash originally could kill almost anybody, but now they toned it down.
Major Buff: Luigi
Luigi has broken aerials (all of them have INSANE priority)
What about tink? I personally think he got buffed through his fast dair and killer second smash strike.
 
B

blazefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
276
Location
Nanticoke PA. (East Coast USA)
Sonic Wave said:
Yeah, but how does he approach. His dair doesn't have that much horizontal range, and all his fair and uair aren't good for approaching grounded opponents. Side B is pretty good, but still easily reacted to in comparison to other characters approaches.


He also lost a lot of range on his fair, dair, and down tilt.

Though I do prefer his new smashes over the old ones.


His recovery does reach higher, but it's quite easy to just knock him to far sideways, even with DI. His old recovery would've been so much better in brawl. Grrr.... I'm not just talking about his up B by the way. His new up B is indeed better. But his old down B is something everyone misses.
Click to expand...
): I really wish they left Wizard's Foot unchanged. I hate how if your opponent shields it now he comes almost to a stop speed wise, getting you shield/ pivot grabbed every friggin time it's shielded. And the triple jump is somethin any heavy character would love. I think Falcon suffers alot from it being "fixed" too, though.

By far, Capt. Falcon has had his *** pinned to the wall. Reverse falcon punch is fun to pull out in a FFA, but hell, he basically sucks now... I'm not so frustrated about Falcons recovery as his Knees new hitbox. WTF? I'ts like they gave Falcon a slice of Strawberry Cheesecake in melee, then seeing how much Falcon enjoyed the first 2 bites, Sakurai felt Falcon would enjoy a bucket of Rhino **** instead. /sigh

I think I died a little when I first tried using the knee against an opponent.
 
Jibbles

Jibbles

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
169
Location
...
Losses - Falchion (the sword) itself lost a bit of range, lost uber-range on grabs, loss of IASA (?) ruins awesome D-Tilt -> F-Smash combo somewhat
Click to expand...
DTilt still has IASA frames
 
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