Morph Ball Bomb Discussion

[Cherry64]

Which is why I use two retreating bombs in succession if an opponent is chasing me. They would have to either guard BOTH (which is almost impossible), or jump over them where you should have a proper response (zair, plasma or utilt).

That and the bermuda triangle. They are very disruptive. I'll try it more in the next tourney I go to and see what's up.

If they jump they will be on your *** as your morphing back into Spamus, I'm pretty sure. if they know what they are doing against a samus anyway

I think if we find a cool bomb strat it'll work because for 1 no one really knows the samus match-up and it's not like any good samus' Use bombs, it'd be the most unexpected thing ever

 

[Throwback]

If they jump they will be on your *** as your morphing back into Spamus, I'm pretty sure. if they know what they are doing against a samus anyway

I think if we find a cool bomb strat it'll work because for 1 no one really knows the samus match-up and it's not like any good samus' Use bombs, it'd be the most unexpected thing ever

It actually works better against an opponent who knows the samus matchup, because they always try to punish the first bomb. Try it out before you dismiss it.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

IF I attempt to retreat using two bombs and the opponent jumps over them, I usually try to shield grab them. That is, satisfy their want to punish, though blocking their [usually what is an] aerial attack, then shield grab. But that too is highly situational and character-dependent. A lot of the time I also just try to space the two bombs so I'm JUST out of reach of their jump, and land a Dtilt on them if possible when / before they land, which again is character-dependent. This method works a lot better Online than Offline though, I'm sure.

Also, if my opponent is the type of edge guarder where they just wait there and try to space well an attack, sometimes I just juggle myself with bombs just above the ledge, swerving left and right to maintain a sense of unpredictibility. One of four things usually happen:
1.) They just stare as if to say "Uuuuuuhh....".
2.) They screw up their spacing and get punished for it.
3.) They jump off the ledge in attempt to attack, but miss and get caught up in the bombs. Now they're trying to recover.
4.) They jump and actually hit me. I die and weep in shame.

bombs OoS???

Ah, I just charge my beam on the edge, quickly shielding to cancel the charge, tapping Up to jump out of the shield followed by deploying a bomb, DI'ing offstage to bait, double-jumping back to an Fair / Dair - Bomb combo as posted a couple pages ago.

 

[Cherry64]

Ah, I just charge my beam on the edge, quickly shielding to cancel the charge, tapping Up to jump out of the shield followed by deploying a bomb, DI'ing offstage to bait, double-jumping back to an Fair / Dair - Bomb combo as posted a couple pages ago.

What in the what did you just say?

It actually works better against an opponent who knows the samus matchup, because they always try to punish the first bomb. Try it out before you dismiss it.

I shall

 

[LanceStern]

Ah, I just charge my beam on the edge, quickly shielding to cancel the charge, tapping Up to jump out of the shield followed by deploying a bomb, DI'ing offstage to bait, double-jumping back to an Fair / Dair - Bomb combo as posted a couple pages ago.

I usually do that as well. Only I jump with Y not Up.

If you use the Raigoth technique (holding down to reduce MBB lag) you can buffer an up tilt or up smash (and if you set smashes to the cstick you can buffer a screw attack). That way if they jump over the bombs they are still in danger. Up smash would be a good bet in case they air dodge in because of it's multiple hits.

But spacing the MBBs while retreating back has definitely helped me. Remember each bomb has 2 hitboxes on the ground when they try to shield it, so thats four hitboxes to get through. You have to expect them to roll or shield and punish accordingly. Something I'm bad at

 

[RaigothDagon]

Hey, dont know if anyone tried this, but it is hilarious to do, and sorry ahead of time if it is not quite on topic. Someone grabs onto the ledge and youre right beside them, right? Normally do dtilt, but try this - bomb. What are they going to do to try to avoid that bomb exploding on them? Once I tried for fun double bomb, one close enough to the ledge so it explodes on them, then back up, and bomb. Most of the time I notice they roll. So when I tried that, they roll, first bomb avoided, but they roll to the second bomb, I jab them into it, the bomb explodes, I jab again. Try it sometime. Maybe you'll find something more useful than a laugh.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

What in the what did you just say?

*Cough*

I said hinga dern the flavin to the left about an upflar straight torso to a free-fall magnet stuffle. Follow down to a McDonalds dawse central, steer green thing, chuckle, THEN blow up with a bang.

 

[Throwback]

bomb throw on the edge shows promise - pretty sure it's guaranteed death vs a lot of recoveries.

 

[n00b]

the only use for bomb is to raigoth cancel into zss transform

or bombo combo, uthrow to down b

but on a serious tip cherry would bomb away from me every time i went for the spike, then daired me back Q_Q

 

[Kief]

*Cough*

I said hinga dern the flavin to the left about an upflar straight torso to a free-fall magnet stuffle. Follow down to a McDonalds dawse central, steer green thing, chuckle, THEN blow up with a bang.

rofl. anyway...

this is retardedly easy set up. drop bomb and all you have to do is D air them into it.

the set up sounds easy and it will work unless they tech the floor. doing it though, that's a little harder, but there we go, a jab lock set up on stage without roofs, similar to pikachu's one.

I dind't find this, a friend of mien told me about this, so I'm giving him credit for it.

reason this isn't in the bomb discussion is because... who the F*** checks that anyways??

it is impossible to do on purpose. But this discussion should ne moved to the bomb thread. please take it there.

W!ll had me record our friend's replay of him doing what is being talked about here. It happens in the first 10 seconds of the vid. Don't bother watching the rest of it. For some reason youtube wouldn't let me upload a short vid, so I recorded longer so it would work. Dunno why. Another example of youtube being gay I suppose.

Something tells me this isn't exactly a new discovery. Could be something to talk about, though.

 

[LanceStern]

rofl. anyway...

W!ll had me record our friend's replay of him doing what is being talked about here. It happens in the first 10 seconds of the vid. Don't bother watching the rest of it. For some reason youtube wouldn't let me upload a short vid, so I recorded longer so it would work. Dunno why. Another example of youtube being gay I suppose.

Something tells me this isn't exactly a new discovery. Could be something to talk about, though.

Well where is the video at?

 

[Cherry64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ewsmw0Aag

right here. it's actually not as hard as it sounds.

 

[Kief]

lol oh sorry. forgot to post it.

 

[n00b]

snake jumped, autofail

 

[Cherry64]

What eva!
the bomb still pops them up.
if you can SH then D air it could be viable. Also, i jsut figured out, Any time a person is falling towards theg round just SH d air them and you will generally get a jab lock

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Hello Guys!
First let me say who I am. My Nickname is quiKsilver and my only main is Samus!
I am an Italian Guy living in Germany.
Maybe you have heard, but L!te has quitted Brawl, so I want to be THE Samus and his follower in Germany, and make me a name international, too.
I post now in that thread, because I created a new Combo! Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBd_vZklfds The quiK Fusion Beam! It's real combo, god ****. Found it yesterday in Training Mode and it worked with the first try in Wifi.

I hope you like it!

Friends, that's not all. I am planning an Combo Video, where you'll find all moves with Samus and maybe something new moves like the combo i presented you!
I created a new metagame with Samus, too. It includes no Zair and Homing Missilie Spam. For my reason the key, that makes Samus unpredictable is a Samus, who uses his every single moves very agreed. All Moves have great spacing potential. SAMUS IS A MONSTER. I think. More than E-Tier.

So, that's me.

 

[n00b]

bombs, nair, charge shot, COMBO?? Does Europe get melee samus in brawl?

nice vid!

 

[RaigothDagon]

Very interesting quiksilver. I wonder if this has been discussed at all, using the bomb in such a way as that, canceling your forward momentum and jump as a fakeout. As was demonstrated in the video, he was able to pull off a combo with it. I think that it is a very reasonable thing that we should consider.

 

[Cherry64]

Woah. we got ***** son.
I use it for knocking off charge shots sometimes, but never like that.

 

[LanceStern]

That was very cool. Did you see how much it popped Kirby up? Enough to stun him for the charge shot!

I liked that, is it possible to set that up some more...

 

[Jupz]

Wow, that was an interesting combo. I'll try some stuff tonight and see if I can come up with anything.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Thank you for the comments, i am glad you like that. I hope I can become a little part of the Samus Board

Another Way of Combo is: Jab + Bomb + FSmash/DTilt.
Well, just place the bomb on the bottom, then DI aback, and hope the enemy is silly enough and between the bomb and you. Then Jab -> the Knockback brings the enemy to the bomb -> the bomb's knockback brings the enemy to you back -> you use a finshing attack! Well, it looks pretty nice, but it's not very effective, I think.

Now then. Some great players like Tudor use the Bombs on the Edge before, so don't know, if they use that, too. I use the bombs when the enemy is hanging on the edge and then i place a bomb in front or above of the enemy, so you can earn room and do maybe a combo with the bomb. It's little bit similar with Snakes Grenades.

 

[Jupz]

Like Snake's grenades, except with a lot less power and a way smaller hitbox lol I liked the second combo as well, I'll try it out on my friends I can't really welcome you to the samus board as I'm new myself (just picked up Samus a few days ago, I've read the guides on here ) and I must say shes very fun to play and use Do you have any matches of yourself? You seem pretty good

 

[Cherry64]

Lol at smiley faces. Hmm Recently I've been tryign to bomb jump off stage, because when you bomb jomb 1 bomb will fall as you release two bombs
thinking the other bomb could hit the oppopent I was doing this, I wasn't far off from the stage though becasue I liked to save my second jump, seems to do nuthin loll. but maybe if we use our second jump and then cancel it into a bomb it might work better?

 

[LanceStern]

That's not a bad idea Cherry.

I'm finding some very good stuff out of Raigoths' Bomb Technique. I noticed it's much easier for me to run out of the MBB when I do a Hadoken (Down angle-forward forward) motion.

So now I MBB to:
- Pivot Grab.
- Up Smash (Really useful. Makes the opponent think Samus has that super wavedash from Melee)
- Shield dash -> smash
- Run, pivot, jump and plasma shot (Really good mind game)

If nothing else, the MBB covers your behind.

And again guys, the Bermuda Triangle is some good stuff. The opponent is almost guranteed to get hit by a MBB if they come in. I like it

 

[actmasterkings]

mbbs can be used to follow up after missle in the air or to pursue after fair...

your opponets will almost always drop back to the stage after using fair in the air..if you drop a bomb they can get hit by it or they will dodge (thats when you pull out dair)BAM!!!!!

 

[LanceStern]

Very interesting quiksilver. I wonder if this has been discussed at all, using the bomb in such a way as that, canceling your forward momentum and jump as a fakeout. As was demonstrated in the video, he was able to pull off a combo with it. I think that it is a very reasonable thing that we should consider.

The CPU can jump out of it, MBBS don't have enough hit stun to gurantee a combo. And the training mode tracker resets the combo counter once the plasma beam hits them.

It's also kind of hard to NOT get hit when using the MBB to go backwards. Usually they are coming at Samus with an aerial. Timing is strict.

It's still something very cool that I'd like to pull off.

 

[Cherry64]

I found a ******** use for them today. Mind games. Literly even I don't know where I'll end up when randomly throwing out a bomb. it's led to 2 very nice kills

 

[RaigothDagon]

The CPU can jump out of it, MBBS don't have enough hit stun to gurantee a combo. And the training mode tracker resets the combo counter once the plasma beam hits them.

It's also kind of hard to NOT get hit when using the MBB to go backwards. Usually they are coming at Samus with an aerial. Timing is strict.

It's still something very cool that I'd like to pull off.

You may notice in the video that when the morph ball is done, it is when Kirby is knocked down and then goes into his rolling frames. I think this is about the time when we would want to do the morph ball, not when the opponent CAN do something. Look at the video again, I think you might see the right opportunity to do something like that.

 

[LanceStern]

I found a ******** use for them today. Mind games. Literly even I don't know where I'll end up when randomly throwing out a bomb. it's led to 2 very nice kills

That's so true lol. I think I'm going to start randomly using them for edgeguarding. Just to see what's possible with it.

You may notice in the video that when the morph ball is done, it is when Kirby is knocked down and then goes into his rolling frames. I think this is about the time when we would want to do the morph ball, not when the opponent CAN do something. Look at the video again, I think you might see the right opportunity to do something like that.

Hm I'll take another look

 

[Throwback]

edgeguarding with bombs is sick

 

[LanceStern]

I'm thinking drop a bomb, move back and Utilt or Upsmash. The bomb covers the ground and the utitl/smash covers the front and the air.

Thoughts?

 

[Cherry64]

Rolls are too fast. they can roll and hit you before the bomb goes off or the U tilt's hitbox comes out. In melee the rolls were WAY slower so you coudl punish **** better, every roll in melee was like samus' roll in Brawl, but now Brawl rolls are fast and can be used a lot with minor drawbacks. They would most likely roll behind you and attack. I can see it working 60% of the time though. when they are laying motion-less on the ground this would be a good set up

 

[Sago]

bombs edguard dk like so nice :D

 

[Cherry64]

they also disrupt yoshi's second jump /hott

 

[LanceStern]

Do they really? That's very good information to know Cherry. Could you explain further?

P.S. ~ I've been trying out just laying bombs at the edge and stepping back into an utilt. It's manageable and fun to do but it's on Lvl 9 CPUs. They get owned, how would a human react?

 

[RaigothDagon]

Hey Lance, do you do that as they grab onto the edge, and during their invincibility frames, or do you do that as they are trying to recover?

I have been using bombs for a while as a person grabs the edge, and so far it has proved effective. It tends to force a roll for me, which is easy to predict. But unfortunately, I won't have my Wii in Florida until something like the middle of August, so I havent been able to test anything since Ive played online a month or so back. Oh, and I guess that is a problem too... when I tested this, I was online...

 

[LanceStern]

I try to do it as they are about to grab the ledge, cause if I do while they are trying to recover, they can avoid it. When you drop it as they grab the ledge they panic because it will blow up on them.

If we're spaced right, the utilt should cover anywhere they jump, unless they come up with an air dodge, which I don't think is fast enough. They usually try to jump and utilt can KO airborne opponents at pretty nice percentages (near 100%) because they are so close to the blast radius. Upsmash should work as well if you're standing right over the bomb, but you risk getting hit by a ledge recovery move.

I'm going to try to mix that in with just chasing them off the stage with zair gimps and plasma shots. See how that fairs. Just gotta find some more peeps to play.

I would advise to not try this on Ness though. His fair recovery is just too ridiculously good. I hate that rising fair with a passion. Probably anyone with very good horizontal air-movement would be tough to implement this on

 

[Crescens]

This video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_2ghHRTNA

See the technique starting at 1:22 (what's it called?); watch the third attempt. Instead of landing normally, as per the first two attempts, Samus bounced about half a shorthop into the air upon landing.

I have been able to produce this; but I'm not sure how. I can't do it consistently enough to figure out what is happening.

Obviously a (relatively) useless and situational technique, but in any case; does anyone know how to do this?

 

[Cherry64]

what I want to know is what the hell is he doing to jump to the side like that??

nvm, he just does another bomb lolol.

anyways Lance, the bomb has to explode, the bomb has 3 hitbox's (Says Ravin) so it can't be anything BUT the fire from the bomb, Pretty sure t disrupts Yoshi's second jump. Not sure though, It happened to me during a match, he was halfway through his second jump by then and the bomb blew up if so we got EXCELLENCE edge guarding potential here.