Milktea talks Awareness, Girl Gamers in new Blog

[EEvisu]

a lot of over analyzing in this blog

 

[Kenith]

This discussion is pointless btw. Men are attracted to women. We can't help it. You will always be treated slightly different by us. Just as we will always be treated slightly different by you. If you stop and think of it, we are slightly different by nature. Both physically and mentally.

So you're going to let your physiology determine how you treat other humans? You're not going to set aside your instincts and treat women fairly because of an incident when someone was unfair to you? You should always have a desire to be a better person, and to use your instincts for your own good, not to create a line between two parts of the same species.

 

[ndayday]

This discussion is pointless btw. Men are attracted to women. We can't help it. You will always be treated slightly different by us. Just as we will always be treated slightly different by you. If you stop and think of it, we are slightly different by nature. Both physically and mentally.

I usually would never touch this subject even with a 1000032452 foot pole but godmiljaar. Just because we're males and females doesn't give people the right to openly treat people in a sexual manner. If a guy looks good that doesn't give a woman the right to ask to suck his **** same as it's not ok for a guy to ask a girl to ****. You assume males are creatures that constantly hunch over when they walk to conceal their raging boners and women are constantly in heat and wagging their asses in front of males.
We're damn people and we can be above sex crazed animals.

edit: Kenith put this a lot nicer than me.

 

[Renji64]

Don't trust a wavedash and smile dat girl is poison poison!

!

 

[Kenith]

edit: Kenith put this a lot nicer than me.

Well, sometimes it takes bluntness to get a point across, but I agree with you.
I really support women so saying stuff that blatantly misogynistic really gets my goat.

 

[Xyro77]

Having articles solely focused on one specific group is stupid/selfish.

The melee/brawl/PM aka smash scene need to work on accepting ALL forms of people. Gay, straight, obese, skinny, girl, boy or half beaver.....ect it's doesn't matter. Treat everybody equal. I say this because for that one moment in time, we all wanna play smash, have fun, meet people. For that one moment, we are all the same.

 

[<π]

(I'm male)

Its a really difficult spot right. Men and women ARE different. That's a fact. I treat women differently than men because I was taught to do so from birth, I think everyone is almost pre-programed to do so. its a hard switch to just turn off.

I don't think I've ever been a big name outside of the communities I played in. (CT and FL) However, I always made sure to treat everyone with respect period. When I met newer or weaker male players I would always try to encourage them... but with women it is different. (Yes all of the ladies I've met have been under my skill level)

I didn't want girls to feel uncomfortable with me giving them advice or tips and misconstrue that with babying or coddling, or as me trying to approach them with "romantic" intention. So unless approached I would always just be polite in passing and kind of just let the lady kind of find her own way. In my mind at the time it meant less guys "pestering" her, but In retrospect that may have been the wrong approach because our goal; the community's goal; is to grow and distancing and alienating people doesn't help a community become stronger.

Personally I don't see treating women differently ask a crime. We are all people and all deserve respect, but we are all different. I teach my son lady's first, and to hold the door open for a lady. I'm generalizing a bit here these obviously don't apply to all girls, but its hard when women want to be identify as female in a predominately masculine community; and then at the same time treat them exactly the same as everyone else. Is that a fair and reasonable request on the females part? Yes definitely, but unfortunately like my son holding the door open for a woman, it's a hard thing to just turn off.

I don't understand what it is like to be a women at all, but lets set up an example here. If I; young man; went to a sewing club dressed in my hoodie and jeans, and I pull a pair of knitting needles with Nintendo logos glued to them out of my backpack. I wouldn't expect more than a few stares and whispers, sewing circles are generally comprised of older women. Now the ladies may not run out of the place in fear, but like most of us I doubt they wouldn't believe I was authentic, they would find it hard to believe I was one of them because right of the bat I don't fit the mold they've created for the hobby they take very seriously.

I feel like I've run into this situation a lot (even in smash as a man) when I don't look the part, or sound the part, or play the part I still work hard to prove I'm authentic, I'm real and I deserve a spot. If its something you are passionate about it will show period. You surround yourself with the people who are supportive and go for it and don't let anyone push you down or hold you back.

Other people will always have something to say, male or female, white, black, rich, poor, successful or un. In my mind its an individuals job to change how others perceive that individual through the things they actually do instead of with rights and privileges they should (or most of the time already) have.


SO final thoughts:
The community could be more inviting, treat women like people first, with respect and integrity always. But I don't think women who are passionate about this game should let a negative community keep them from enjoying it, do what the guys do, work hard play hard have fun don't let anyone hold you back.

 

[Kenith]

Having articles solely focused on one specific group is stupid/selfish.

The melee/brawl/PM aka smash scene need to work on accepting ALL forms of people. Gay, straight, obese, skinny, girl, boy or half beaver.....ect it's doesn't matter. Treat everybody equal. I say this because for that one moment in time, we all wanna play smash, have fun, meet people. For that one moment, we are all the same.

It's a girl, it only seems logical to stand up for other girls if there's inequality. And besides, in the gaming community, when do gay and obese guys ever, ever get ridiculed? Of course not. But there is a huge social stigma for girl gamers specifically, which is what this blog covers.
Regardless, treating women better doesn't mean treating everyone else worse.

 

[Nicco]

People misunderstood my post. I said some men would want to be sexually/romantically involved with a woman. That's not the same as me thinking it's cool to go slap a chick in the face with your tipper.

Me ignoring female smashers is my own decision to make.

TBH I really do hate women.

But I've always respected them.

 

[Kenith]

People misunderstood my post. I said some men would want to be sexually/romantically involved with a woman. That's not the same as me thinking it's cool to go slap a chick in the face with your tipper.

Me ignoring female smashers is my own decision to make.

TBH I really do hate women.

But I've always respected them.

You don't sound very respectful of women. But I suppose no one can change your mind...

 

[Xyro77]

It's a girl, it only seems logical to stand up for other girls if there's inequality. And besides, in the gaming community, when do gay and obese guys ever, ever get ridiculed? Of course not. But there is a huge social stigma for girl gamers specifically, which is what this blog covers.
Regardless, treating women better doesn't mean treating everyone else worse.

I have ran events in several states and have attended events in several states. Larger guys and homosexual guys are made fun of on a daily basis at tournaments.

I also never said anything about "treating women better doesn't mean treating everyone else worse."

 

[Nicco]

I also want to point out, that just because I personally hate women, that doesn't mean I think they don't deserve the same rights as anyone else.

 

[Kenith]

I have ran events in several states and have attended events in several states. Larger guys and homosexual guys are made fun of on a daily basis at tournaments.
I also never said anything about "treating women better doesn't mean treating everyone else worse."

Well, I'm sorry for that. However, that seems far more specific than this.
Plus, I have never seen this problem. I have plenty of "large" friends who are gamers and liked by everyone.

And you explicitly stated that having a article supporting one group is selfish, as if to imply that women would be getting more support than everyone else.

And defending women is a lot more encompassing than defending the obese, in my opinion. That doesn't make them less important, but one of them is clearly a bigger issue, especially in the gaming community.

 

[Xyro77]

What I implied is not what you think.

I was implying that EVERYONE should be treated as equals and be respected. I just feel that a article/spot on SWF solely about women is not attacking the real issue. The issue of equality for all.

 

[popsofctown]

It's ridiculous that this is even somewhat of an issue. Everyone should be accepted into the Smash community with respect and open arms

Unless they like Brawl more than Melee

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

I don't care if your the nicest girl in the universe, or the most attractive.
You could be Miss USA for all I care. But once the match starts, Im going 100% all-out. Its irrelevant whether or not your a girl, guy, white, dark, tall, or short, im still going to play my absolute best regardless.
I look forward to the day when female smashers can play the game and know that they are only being judged on how they play, rather then their gender.

 

[Nicco]

You don't sound very respectful of women. But I suppose no one can change your mind...

I like people that I can be myself with. I like farts. I like offensive/inappropriate humor.

90% of the women I've encountered, which is propably more than most due to my former line of work, do NOT appreciate my humor/nature. This means that I have to put on a mask, if I want to befriend them. Women aren't viable to me as friends, and I do not find them attractive from a sexual point of view either.

I don't think women are inferior. In fact, I think the world would propably be a much better place if it was run by women, instead of people like Putin, who just want the world to see how big their shaft is.

 

[Kenith]

I like people that I can be myself with. I like farts. I like offensive/inappropriate humor.
90% of the women I've encountered, which is propably more than most due to my former line of work, do NOT appreciate my humor/nature. This means that I have to put on a mask, if I want to befriend them. Women aren't viable to me as friends, and I do not find them attractive from a sexual point of view either.

I don't want to argue with your opinion, but I still think you should at least be a little more open to people. Don't stereotype people based on what you know...
Stuff like that. But whatever you want to feel, it's fine.

 

[ArQpholyff]

hear me out, i can see why men and women always have their issues and such. but when it comes to video gaming i NEVER understood why sexism against women existed. there is no reason for it. if you get beat at a video game by a girl its no different then being beat by a guy. this shouldn't even be an issue at all especially in video gaming.

 

[Nicco]

We're forgetting the real issue here.
Brawl
Kappa

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

I have ran events in several states and have attended events in several states. Larger guys and homosexual guys are made fun of on a daily basis at tournaments.

I also never said anything about "treating women better doesn't mean treating everyone else worse."

this seriously needs to be addressed as well.

like
c'mon
as a community
we are WAY above that

we need to make the community more friendly overall.
and discussions like this help to open the doors to more discussions on other issues. dont take it for granted just because 'its girls' issues not ours' because 1. these community issues DO exist and 2. it shouldnt matter if this is a post by a woman or by someone who was offended for slurs of any sort. We need to take this opportunity to reflect on ourselves as a community to improve quality of life for everyone.

Pills, please do. never go easy on someone for stupid reasons.

 

[Daftatt]

I can't imagine branding any girl who plays smash a girl gamer, stigma and all, even if they acted like it. People who play smash are smart people, they had to make the conscious choice to play the deepest and most fluid fighting experience out there, so that is why they deserve my respect. Honestly though, I have NEVER met a girl who has played smash more that a handful of times, and I have yet to meet one who even knows about the community. Maybe that's a result of the community's actions and the fact that I've only been a part of it since 2011, hopefully as I start making my way to tournaments I can find some women who appreciate smash, because I definitely am aware that playing with guys exclusively affects how I behave.

 

[ArQpholyff]

I like people that I can be myself with. I like farts. I like offensive/inappropriate humor.

90% of the women I've encountered, which is propably more than most due to my former line of work, do NOT appreciate my humor/nature. This means that I have to put on a mask, if I want to befriend them. Women aren't viable to me as friends, and I do not find them attractive from a sexual point of view either.

I don't think women are inferior. In fact, I think the world would propably be a much better place if it was run by women, instead of people like Putin, who just want the world to see how big their shaft is.

there are tons of males that think fart jokes and crude humor is stupid. i'm a dude and i don't like it when anyone is around me and rips ass. women probably think your being immature when you do things like that, which is why its probably best if you wear a mask. and on that note i can say that MOSTLY everyone wears a mask at work/around their boss if they want to keep their job.

 

[Problem2]

Look at it this way, if a girl was playing video games for attention, they wouldn't pick this game, because it is way too flippin' hard! Girls go to smash tournaments for the same reason guys do. I see it on their face every time they play. It's the face of a competitor.

 

[Nicco]

there are tons of males that think fart jokes and crude humor is stupid. i'm a dude and i don't like it when anyone is around me and rips ***. women probably think your being immature when you do things like that, which is why its probably best if you wear a mask. and on that note i can say that MOSTLY everyone wears a mask at work/around their boss if they want to keep their job.

I know alot of guys are sensitive as well. I know most people wear a mask.

I don't befriend sensitive guys either. I never wear a mask. What's the point of having a job, if it's actually your mask having the job?
Wouldn't you rather work somewhere, where you could be yourself 100%?

 

[ArQpholyff]

I know alot of guys are sensitive as well. I know most people wear a mask.

I don't befriend sensitive guys either. I never wear a mask. What's the point of having a job, if it's actually your mask having the job?
Wouldn't you rather work somewhere, where you could be yourself 100%?

its called respect and its not even being sensitive, i don't want to be around anyone when they stink. also your problem is you probably don't know when to use your "crude dumb humor", in other words there is a "time and place" for everything. if i want to get laid i'll be myself, but i'm not going to use crude humor and fart around a girl i'm trying to "get with". the point of having a job is to work and make money, duh! sure its nice to have a cool boss that lets you be yourself but even then you still have to do your job and act professional in some areas. i would rather work and get paid well because when i'm being myself i'm at the bars relaxing which isn't a job last time i checked.

 

[Bambi_]

So much of this thread is so vomit inducingly misogynistic.

Women in this community are treated like ****. It's simple. When a girl goes to a tournament, they are accosted with harassment and treated as lesser than their male counterparts. They want to go to these tournaments to play a game they enjoy, and instead they get guys fawning over them or acting like they're not viable competitors. They get sexually harassed, they're the butt of jokes that they're forced to deal with, and they're stuck in a room where everyone wants to either kick them out or pull them in so that they can hit on them. That's why none of them go.

And then, when they try to bring it to people's attention that they aren't treated well, it's "I'm not one of them!" "Wait, you can't say that about guys!" "Wait, we're not all like that!" "Well if you didn't take it personally...!" "Well of course we're going to stare at your chest while you're doing bans! We like girls!" And you ****ing don't get it. You're making an instance of oppression about the oppressors' feels rather than the actual bull**** that goes down. If you're even thinking of saying "but sexists are the issue, not guys!" then you have ****ed up priorities when it comes to what's an actual issue here and what should be addressed.

If you feel that a victim complaining about how they are victimized using blanket statements is more of an issue, as much of an issue as, or even in the same realm of issues as the actual victimizing, then you are part of the oppression as you minimize the severity of their issues. You look for any way to invalidate them, all while putting your own agenda of "Make sure everyone knows that I'm one of the good guys!" ahead of the actual problem here: that women face poor treatment at these events.

And if you feel that it's not actually a problem then I dare you to try to step into their shoes. I dare you to try to participate in this community while everyone sees you as an other, or while you get guys checking you out, or you get guys hitting on you, or while people make jokes about your body publicly, or while everyone sees you as worthless for the community. Imagine that happening to you. Then would it be a problem?

Call me a white knight, pass off everything I said as an overreaction, tell me "go back to tumblr." It will only show your ignorance.

PS: To all the guys commenting "I don't care if you're a girl! I still play hard against you!" Great, but you do NOT understand. This isn't "Come show us that you're not sexist" all while failing to tackle the actual issue. It's not about you.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Is there even really any sort of large alienation going on anyway? Are these myths that Milktea addresses actually held in believe by majority of males in the smash community? I want to know what evidence Milktea would cite that actually proves the smash community is actually alienating anyone. Perhaps, most of the male community does not alienate women at all. If so, maybe they are doing or would do the exact opposite and try to support women into the community as best they can. The only issue that I believe I could reasonable say for fact (but probably not at all) is that there is a larger male population than female population in the community.

Assuming this to be the case allow me to make another potential hypothesis that due to this skewed population the community appears to be alienating women because of a minority group of people. Due to the limited interactions one cannot see that many more men would not alienate women at all in the community.

However, I cannot really prove any of this. My point I am trying to make is that the "call of gender inequality" might not be as severe as some people might make it out to be. I do like the outreach this article makes.

Edit: "community is actually alienating anyone" this group of words by me was in poor decision. When saying this I do not mean that "no one" is being alienated. Someone some where is being alienated. The thing I wanted to address with these words was the severity of alienation not being as bad as people are making it out to be.

 

[Deleted member]

(Comment Deleted)

 

[Jekku]

I remember at the last pultti I played a female player in tournament. After the tournament I played some friendlies with her, and I went Mewtwo and later Yoshi. The moment I did, I could read her mind "omg he's going mewtwo against me because i'm a girl". I had been playing mewtwo throughout the weekend in friendlies, and I played yoshi in the teams tournament, but to her I was just a sexist sandbagging.

After that experience and reading this blog, I'm just going to ignore every female smasher.

I don't think there were any other female players than me (there was one other girl but I don't think she played at all, not sure) at Pultti I. Anyway it might have been me? I play with red Sheik. I think we might have been in the same pool too. (I am only 95% sure I am the female player you are talking about, so sorry if I am wrong).

I want to clear some things out now that I happened to bump into your message and this topic. First of all, I don't mean to be rude but you suck at reading minds. I don't think everything people do in Smash is related to me being a girl. If I happen to get the feeling that someone plays with a character who is considered lousy, I get to conclusion that I am just a bad player and my skill level is way lower than theirs. It has nothing to do with me being a girl. I know I am a girl, I've known it for a long time. It doesn't mean I think everything male players do must have something to do with the fact that I am a girl. No conspiracy there. It rarely crosses my mind that people might underestimate because of my gender. I don't really care. If they beat me it means they are probably better than me. If I beat them it probably means I am better and there was no point in underestimating me. But I have never considered someone to be sexist just because they play with "bad" characters against me.

I am sorry if I did something (obviously I did) that made you feel like I think you are just a sexist sandbagging. I am sorry you "read my mind" and that it changed your whole view on female smashers. If you think people accuse you of something, just ask them straight. Might save you from lot. Because I can promise you I didn't think you are a sexist asshole or anything.

I had to reply because I hate it when people assume they know better than me what's going on in my head. Especially if they blame me on doing something I wasn't even aware of. Long rant, sry people.

 

[Metazoa]

>Girl gamer issues

0/10
Didn't even read.
$10 says it's the same **** I'd see on Kotaku at any given moment.

**** off white knights.

I actually don't understand how any single person could be so close-minded as to completely ignore someone who takes their time to write out an argument and find ways to support said argument.

 

[Nicco]

At beast 4 there were a few women. From what I could see, they were enjoying themselves, and people respected and were nothing but kind to them. Not because they were girls. Everyone was kind to everyone. Except this tard who wouldn't shake my hand, when I introduced myself to him, but whatever.

I obviously can't talk on behalf of them, but I know one of them posted she was super happy about the tournament, and another one was basically smiling and laughing all throughout the tourney.

Maybe the states are different, but I wouldn't know.

its called respect and its not even being sensitive, i don't want to be around anyone when they stink. also your problem is you probably don't know when to use your "crude dumb humor", in other words there is a "time and place" for everything. if i want to get laid i'll be myself, but i'm not going to use crude humor and fart around a girl i'm trying to "get with". the point of having a job is to work and make money, duh! sure its nice to have a cool boss that lets you be yourself but even then you still have to do your job and act professional in some areas. i would rather work and get paid well because when i'm being myself i'm at the bars relaxing which isn't a job last time i checked.

Dont talk like u know me. In fact don't talk to me at all.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Oh hey, I almost forgot about Milktea. Back in college I used to lurk on the DC++ chat and I remember her from then.

 

[Bambi_]

Is there even really any sort of large alienation going on anyway?

I mean, clearly. I've been to about four tournaments and seen three girls between them all. They feel that they cannot go to these tournaments on account of what happens at them if they do. When someone is treated poorly they shouldn't have to make an Excel spreadsheet documenting every time they have been treated poorly before you can believe them. You should just believe them. At the tournaments that I went to which had a girl, I heard people joking about them. "Dude, I hope she doesn't suck **** as poorly as she plays" etc. People talked about them behind their backs, wondering if they were single, or if they could perchance wind up with a smasher girlfriend if they were smooth enough. And they don't seem to realize that the girls are not there to be hit on, and that their side of it matters, and that maybe they just want to play a game and not be subject to catcalls or jokes or sexism.

 

[Ogopogo]

Haha, tumblr.

 

[Nicco]

I mean, clearly. I've been to about four tournaments and seen three girls between them all. They feel that they cannot go to these tournaments on account of what happens at them if they do. When someone is treated poorly they shouldn't have to make an Excel spreadsheet documenting every time they have been treated poorly before you can believe them. You should just believe them. At the tournaments that I went to which had a girl, I heard people joking about them. "Dude, I hope she doesn't suck **** as poorly as she plays" etc. People talked about them behind their backs, wondering if they were single, or if they could perchance wind up with a smasher girlfriend if they were smooth enough. And they don't seem to realize that the girls are not there to be hit on, and that their side of it matters, and that maybe they just want to play a game and not be subject to catcalls or jokes or sexism.

Talking behind someone's back is not sexism. Wondering if you could wind up with a girl is not sexism. The fact that there aren't alot of girls at these tournies, is propably because fewer girls find the game interesting enough to compete in.

Girls talk the same way behind our back. Also, a few ******* don't represent the entire community. The smash scene is pretty big. There are bound to be some sphincters here and there. So far, I haven't seen any real sexism in the community on the boards or in RL.

If women are actually being mistreated, then I feel sorry for them. But what else can I do?

 

[Bambi_]

I dunno, maybe not telling them "you're not actually being mistreated" when they try to tell you "hey we're being mistreated." That would be a start.

But instead of taking the truly hazardous social environment that exists for women in this community seriously, you try to deny its existence and defend the people who enforce it by saying "we're not all bad!" as if that's an issue that needs to be addressed. Just because you're ignorant to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And yes, treating a girl like a sexual object is in fact sexism. They can't come to these tournaments because of it. Sometimes women - you know - want to do something without the constant barrage of sexual advances. Sometimes they want to have a life instead of be seen as goals for guys.

 

[Nicco]

If I happen to get the feeling that someone plays with a character who is considered lousy, I get to conclusion that I am just a bad player and my skill level is way lower than theirs.

So you think I went Mewtwo against you because I think you're a bad player? Isn't that more or less what I said I thought you did?

I think mewtwo is a fun character, and a nice change of pace from falcon. My hands hurt after I've played falcon for a long time, and I don't care if you're frigging Armada, I'll still bust out the mewtwo from time to time.

 

[ZLF Aurora]

misogynistic.

And this is the point where I stopped taking this post seriously.

PS: Go back to Tumblr.

 

[Nicco]

If

I dunno, maybe not telling them "you're not actually being mistreated" when they try to tell you "hey we're being mistreated." That would be a start.

But instead of taking the truly hazardous social environment that exists for women in this community seriously, you try to deny its existence and defend the people who enforce it by saying "we're not all bad!" as if that's an issue that needs to be addressed. Just because you're ignorant to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And yes, treating a girl like a sexual object is in fact sexism. They can't come to these tournaments because of it. Sometimes women - you know - want to do something without the constant barrage of sexual advances. Sometimes they want to have a life instead of be seen as goals for guys.

Again, talking behind someone's back is not a sexual advance. And let's be honest most smashers, guy or girl aren't exactly eye candy so I can't imagine that being a big deal.