Milktea talks Awareness, Girl Gamers in new Blog

[Lizalfos]

everyone saying "white knight" has the IQ of a cucumber

or as one would call it, an IQcumber

This made me laugh because you make a condescending statement about people who use a condescending statement. Ingenious, definitely added to the discussion in a way that won't start more petty name calling in the future.

 

[ZexM]

I think these people trying to join said community should get some thicker skin.

I agree that everyone needs thicker skin, but there is a line that you shouldn't cross. I agree that no one should have to jump through any hoops to be accepted. However, there are certain behaviors that are flat out unacceptable. Calling people F@gg0ts (as an outside example) when they are clearly not gay is unacceptable in a public setting, even if the general majority is comfortable with it. Once again "stop calling each other X or else Y will think its okay to also call us X". If they are general terms that don't pin point anyone, that one thing, but when you narrow the scope to create a specific kind of insult, no matter how playful, that's toxic. We all enjoy ripping on one another, and for that you need some thick skin, but should shut your mouth if you truly feel insulted just because everyone else is going to get on you for being sensitive to what they said? Doesn't sound fair to me.

 

[Jekku]

Prefecture:

I am sorry to inform you, but you have already achieved this by making a post containing the phrase "I honestly don't care much what you think" in a discussion.

No need to be sorry. At least it is now actually me and my actions or poor words making me look bad, not someone else's imagination. (My actual point was said in my first post to him. I am bad at writing opinions or "debating".
"And suddenly I think that being a girl means you're bad?" Was not what I meant. I didn't assume him thinking that, but I also don't care much if he thought like that. I just tried to tell the reason if I acted wrong or something to him and say it has nothing to do with gender. Gahh I should just go back to lurking, I don't know if anyone understands anything from my posts anyway. Sry for being an asshole I guess. )

 

[pidgezero_one]

This made me laugh because you make a condescending statement about people who use a condescending statement. Ingenious, definitely added to the discussion in a way that won't start more petty name calling in the future.

let me guess, you're a white guy who thinks being "racist against racists" is the crime of the century too

 

[smashbroskilla]

Yeah, I've been a part of the smash community since about 2009 or 10 and I have TO'd some Ohio events along with helping other TO's at their events. And feel free to ask away.

You never said how old you were. Only answer if you want to.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

You never said how old you were. Only answer if you want to.

Just about 21?
I'm just confused as to why it matters, that's all (haha)

 

[smashbroskilla]

Just about 21?
I'm just confused as to why it matters, that's all (haha)

It does matter though. I think in general smash players have a hard time socializing or even feeling comfortable in a public settting. I'm not saying all do but I've seen quite a bit. I've smelled quite a bit not by choice.

The old saying is true(to me at least in most cases) girls mature faster than boys. I don't know you at all. I'm not sure if you're shy meeting new people or embrace them. Maybe you damn near break a hip when you walk and like attention or maybe you shave your head and wear rainbow suspenders and can be found at the next gay pride festival. You said you helped organize some tournaments in 2010. So you were 17-18 when you were doing this? How did you get into the smash scene? Did you feel comfortable at 18ish years old in a male dominant scene with other(mostly) teenager boys? Did that attract you to the scene that there were mainly boys. Maybe you're just a big nerd like I am. Answer these questions if you want and I'll continue to bring my point to a finer tip.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

It does matter though. I think in general smash players have a hard time socializing or even feeling comfortable in a public settting. I'm not saying all do but I've seen quite a bit. I've smelled quite a bit not by choice.

The old saying is true(to me at least in most cases) girls mature faster than boys. I don't know you at all. I'm not sure if you're shy meeting new people or embrace them. Maybe you damn near break a hip when you walk and like attention or maybe you shave your head and wear rainbow suspenders and can be found at the next gay pride festival. You said you helped organize some tournaments in 2010. So you were 17-18 when you were doing this? How did you get into the smash scene? Did you feel comfortable at 18ish years old in a male dominant scene with other(mostly) teenager boys? Did that attract you to the scene that there were mainly boys. Maybe you're just a big nerd like I am. Answer these questions if you want and I'll continue to bring my point to a finer tip.

I'm just a regular person when meeting people? idk, i dont walk with a sway (the hip movement), which shouldnt matter anyway. i organized events in 2011 and 2012. ive been part of the scene most actively since 2010.
i got into the smash scene because my friends thought itd be fun, and it was.

I was the only girl in the room at my first tournament and there were people that made it weird as heck for me, but also people that were welcoming just because I was new and I appreciate those people. And it definitely wasn't the boys that attracted me. I'm in game development, and I can tell you 200% that being in a male dominated environment can be rather annoying, because in cases you will be babied or treated vastly different no matter how good you are at what you do. And this isnt just in the smash community...many gaming communities, student to even professional level game devs, and even just random people I have played games with can be weird about gender, and I don't understand it. I am adequate enough at smash that I can do decent at tournaments (sadly, only in Brawl; i dont have much time to improve at any smash game since starting college, so i dropped most games and only really attend events to see old friends), and i am a good enough artist that gender should not matter. But, it is annoying and it does happen.

I dont see how these questions about trying to get boys' attention are helping your case. In my experience that is the last thing I want from all of this. I'm 'used' to these kinds of environments just because of my major and what I will be doing for work (the games industry is 11% women, according to polls within the last few years). I do not appreciate being questioned on these motives, because this would not be done for a male member of the community. So if you have a point to make, make it now, because right now I am getting the feeling that you are just gauging if I am 'an attention *****' or someone who is in the scene for 'ulterior motives'. But that just might be me reading into things incorrectly; it's hard to get a feel for people via the internet, and I apologize if that is the case. But this little game of 20 questions is still weird nonetheless.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I'm just a regular person when meeting people? idk, i dont walk with a sway (the hip movement), which shouldnt matter anyway. i organized events in 2011 and 2012. ive been part of the scene most actively since 2010.
i got into the smash scene because my friends thought itd be fun, and it was.

It does matter how you hold yourself. If you walk into a smash tournament like some animated .gif runway model you're going to get attention. My point is the same would be for a straight man that just left the gym with veins buldging out walking into a home ec class. Ok so lets say you have a great sense of fashion and you want to look pretty with makeup and all. Would you really be surprised if you had men looking at you out of the corner of their eye?

I was the only girl in the room at my first tournament and there were people that made it weird as heck for me, but also people that were welcoming just because I was new and I appreciate those people.

Who was weird and why were they weird? Did you approach these looming creatures and ask them what their problem was?

And it definitely wasn't the boys that attracted me. I'm in game development, and I can tell you 200% that being in a male dominated environment can be rather annoying, because in cases you will be babied or treated vastly different no matter how good you are at what you do. And this isnt just in the smash community...many gaming communities, student to even professional level game devs, and even just random people I have played games with can be weird about gender, and I don't understand it. I am adequate enough at smash that I can do decent at tournaments (sadly, only in Brawl; i dont have much time to improve at any smash game since starting college, so i dropped most games and only really attend events to see old friends), and i am a good enough artist that gender should not matter. But, it is annoying and it does happen.

That's great you're in game development and in the scene for that reason. I applaud that. Lets stick to the issue at hand though. Lets keep this about smash and the smash scene only. Taking on too many first world problems at once will just be confusing. You went from the smash scene to gender prejudice of women on a broad scale.

I dont see how these questions about trying to get boys' attention are helping your case. In my experience that is the last thing I want from all of this. I'm 'used' to these kinds of environments just because of my major and what I will be doing for work (the games industry is 11% women, according to polls within the last few years). I do not appreciate being questioned on these motives, because this would not be done for a male member of the community. So if you have a point to make, make it now, because right now I am getting the feeling that you are just gauging if I am 'an attention *****' or someone who is in the scene for 'ulterior motives'. But that just might be me reading into things incorrectly; it's hard to get a feel for people via the internet, and I apologize if that is the case. But this little game of 20 questions is still weird nonetheless.

I never once implied you do it for the attention. I approached you with a clean slate and left it open ended for you to answer in any way you saw fit. I appreciate you taking the time to do it. I asked you 20 questions because I was trying to get a very rough estimate of your reasoning for being in the smash scene. You don't need a reason to be in the smash scene BUT when someone is waving a gender prejudice flag it's time to ask some questions. Trying to understand the mind set of where you and these other women are coming from.

I'll go off on a random tangent like you did:

I grew up in a crappy Miami poor town where looking at middle class families was like a dream. My parents busted their butts and no one gave them a handout. Being the adult I am now I do the same and I do well for myself. I don't let anyone push me around and if someone tries to disrespect me I want to know why. I drive a brand new car and work two jobs. I don't own a credit card and the only person I owe money too is BMW fincance. No one gave me that privilege; I earned it myself. I didn't get it by writing in a diary at night by my night stand crying into my pillow. I stand up for myself. I ask questions. I suggest you do the same next time you feel like a "victim" like milktea at a smash event. Approach that person, point it out to the TO or other rep of the event. Have a voice. If you're going to have the balls to make huge blanket statements about men then have the balls to stand up to them at a smash event. Don't do what milktea did and write a blog about it years after it happened. That's the last I'll say on this subject.

 

[M@v]

As a guy who's been going to tourneys for years, this article has got a ton of truth to it. Excellent read.

 

[bbbooster]

... I earned it myself. I didn't get it by writing in a diary at night by my night stand crying into my pillow. I stand up for myself. I ask questions. I suggest you do the same next time you feel like a "victim" like milktea at a smash event. Approach that person, point it out to the TO or other rep of the event. Have a voice. If you're going to have the balls to make huge blanket statements about men then have the balls to stand up to them at a smash event. Don't do what milktea did and write a blog about it years after it happened. That's the last I'll say on this subject.

you know how hard it is to approach people directly about this sort of thing?
in all the time i've known milktea, she's done her thing, and then people openly judge her about it. she says ONE thing against these people to defend herself and they are ALL over her saying how wrong she and how she needs to get "thicker skin" or "get over it" etc etc. us girls have heard this a million and a half times. the purpose of her article is to approach everyone with these tired remarks instead of doing it over and over, as she has for years. she's one of the braver souls that has sailed the treacherous seas of the internet, much braver than i, i have to say. i especially love that she mentions the darker, more subtle forms of sexism that occur within EVERYONE, not just guys.

That's great you're in game development and in the scene for that reason. I applaud that. Lets stick to the issue at hand though. Lets keep this about smash and the smash scene only. Taking on too many first world problems at once will just be confusing. You went from the smash scene to gender prejudice of women on a broad scale.

don't even. the gaming/dev community as a whole has its demons, and it is directly connected to smash. smash is under the video game umbrella

 

[ToTs]

OMG this is so dumb, why is this, and why has this ever been an issue. Regardless of the reason someone wants to play why would you discourage anyone to play. Sigh

 

[ManaX]

Shut up, grab a controller, and play the damn game.
Don't like me, who I am, or what I'm about? The prove yourself stronger and beat my ass.

I don't like woman. I find them attractive, but I don't relate to them at all. Can't even talk to them.
On the field of Smash, my dislike for someone goes out the door. It's not about gender once that controller in your hands starts making those beautiful clacking noises.

 

[smashbroskilla]

Shut up, grab a controller, and play the damn game.
Don't like me, who I am, or what I'm about? The prove yourself stronger and beat my ***.

I wish nothing more than the first part of your post

 

[King Kazma]

Yeah this topic does get sad when straight to the point. Its pretty funny how every time a girl jumps in (whether in lobby or local) they get hit on by most guys who really think they have a chance, of course its the girl's fault if they start being all flirty with all of them just for attention. But for the ones trying to be serious and join the community you'd be surprised at how well they do and how awesome the groups get, especially how big they grow when you have a Smash Party. Im in Arizona and our game place has weekly Smash Nights on Saturdays, so far we have 9 girl gamers who come often with their friends and the place gets packed. They're really good, and I gotta say I've never seen anyone play as King Deedee so well

 

[Slyer]

So...

It's surprising that this is occurring? In the history of the human race, practically since the dawn of time, no matter the venue, it happens over and over.

So how to solve it, how to stop it? Well I suppose the first step would be to put it in a place the community could address the issue.

Oh wait, that's already done. Step two?

Accept that it's real. Accept that it's wrong. Each and every individual that is part of the world we love so much has to make the right choice and put an end to the discrimination, or this issue will haunt this community to the grave and beyond.

Sorry if I sound like a "white knight" but the truth is inequality sickens me. The world has enough evil in it, part of what feeds it is the people who say "Well I'm not doing it."

Well and good but what are you doing against it? In regards to this particular problem in the gaming community, the same question applies. If such behavior is considered to be unacceptable by the community, as it certainly sounds like the sentiment is here, why does it exist in real life?

Such a strange paradox...

 

[Nicco]

I honestly think the issue is resolving itself slowly. Milktea's article has set things in motion.

Now it's up to us. Personally I'm not a big fan of women in general, but it's sad that women are uncomfortable at tournaments etc.

I think all the different local communities should discuss it with eachother, and make sure that your community is open to everyone. If you notice players treat female smashers (or anyone) in a negative way (remember they're propably doing it by accident) talk to the 'victim' to see how she/he feels about it, and if necessary, talk to the one who messed up.

We don't need to ban and kick eachother, just make sure everyone is having a good time. Maybe there should be a person at tournaments that everyone can consult, if they feel mistreated or uncomfortable.

 

[HodgyDot]

Retired competitive Super Smash Brothers Melee player Lilian "Milktea" Chen recently wrote a provocative blog regarding women in the Smash community and how women are treated as a whole in gaming. She goes in depth debunking some of the myths surrounding women gamers like

• Women who play video games are doing it for attention
• Women aren't real gamers
• Respect is just about being good
• Women should 'just deal with' the attitudes in the fighting game community
• Attention is always good

Milktea says that she truly believes "in the Super Smash Brothers Melee community’s ability to make large strides regarding female gaming issues. Armed with awareness and a touch of empathy, I am confident that we will begin to witness uninformed behaviors turn into knowledgeable ones. The SSBM scene is at such a dynamic stage in its life, one brimming with both reevaluation and reform. Now is the time to open our arms wider than ever to invite the world to experience our scene at large. I hope that one day our skewed gender ratio will balance itself. Perhaps, with more women in our community, we will even discover a handful of pro female Smashers."

Give her blog a read through to gain perspective and let us know what you think about the issue by posting in the comments here.

Source: Ramblings of a Retired Gamer

This is been a problem in a lot of FPSc/FGc, the issue stems from men feeling inferior when losing to a women. Its a sad state to be honest, you should respect all smashers.

 

[ragnarock]

Men have been socially engineered to look at females as a piece of meet and nothing else. The issue is a bit deeper than she may want it to b. And the issue won't get better. Unless the idea of how women are looked at changes. Plain n simple

 

[NinthWonder]

Why don't we talk about something less sensitive?

Who's up for religion discussions?

 

[ragnarock]

Ok. They coming out with this son of god movie. I bet they make a killing of a book they didn't even write

 

[ManaX]

Why don't we talk about something less sensitive?

Who's up for religion discussions?

Did you know there's evidence that suggests pre-christ Judaism had two gods? A male and a female.
/heard it in TV in passing not actually sure about the evidence supporting it

 

[ragnarock]

Thats interesting. I feel that God is a masculine and feminine being though.

 

[ManaX]

Thats interesting. I feel that God is a masculine and feminine being though.

I feel it doesn't matter. If there is or is not a god, it doesn't change our inevitable end.

Edit: The word "androgynous" is what you seek. It is a good word and will serve to better your IQ.

 

[SmasherGirl4]

As a girl, I know for a fact that the ratio of guys to girls on this topic are pretty unbalanced...I didn't think that this was a problem here, I thought that it only happened in middle school when all the boys thought that "you couldn't fight at all since you were a girl." So apparently, it happens here too... That needs to be fixed.

 

[ragnarock]

It won't get fixed, and y y'all acting like y'all fighting 4 equality or something. Its not even that serious. It's a video game. Nintendo is a multi million maybe billion dollar company that we made rich, with our hard earned $. And all this other messed up happening in the U.S. including equality. And that's around the world. And if you got time to make a post a about women struggling in a video game scene, really. As females y'all life is way easier than men. And y'all live longer. And Nintendo don't really give a damn about us men or women. You can tell by the smash games, there becoming less n less competitive.

 

[grizby2]

Rated T for "teen".

if you meet that criteria, then you can play. simple as that.

 

[ThatPersonGuy]

Very Rant

*DISCLAIMER: This is a general statement to everyone in this topic that's going off about how everyone should feel ashamed for their comments*

The thing is, what should this topic enable then? A circlejerk about how evil those people are and how everyone should treat everyone with equality and how you feel for them? There's no point to that. We aren't helping anyone by ranting at those people, nothing's going to be done. I mean if you want to pat yourself on the back for standing up for these people do it then, no one's saying that it doesn't happen and very few aren't condoning the actions of them. If you want awareness, well here's five pages of awareness for ya.

tl;dr: There's no point in turning this into a circlejerk about gender equality. We are all very aware of the issues that females in the video game community face, and applaud Milktea for coming out about it. But ranting that we should all post long angry rants about how this makes us feel is pointless, and if you think that is the best way to deal with the topic then yes, you and all who agree with that should probably pack your bags and go away, preferably to Tumblr and other sites of that liking.

 

[FluffyBaby]

I've competed in multiple Smash Tournaments. ( Mainly Brawl ) As a female, I don't really reference myself as a "girl gamer". To me that is just some sort of ideology that some have to label things. Sure, I do play video games. A lot. That does not mean I'm a "girl gamer". I am just someone who happens to be female and enjoys video games. Same as a guy who happens to like fashion or designing. Nothing different. It just what you like, and that doesn't change you.

 

[Element of Smash]

As an LGBT smasher, I can attest to the incredibly dynamic and accepting nature of the Smash community. I love it here, and everyone manages to make me feel at home. In fact, Smash tourneys are about the only place I feel at home these days.

More power to you, girls! <3

 

[starcock]

Milk who? The name alone makes many smashers d*ck itch. They're all types of female gamers, some good at the game, some attention whores, some manipulate you for your money with their vag, etc....sure it happens, but I don't think anyone deserves special treatment, that further segregates gamers based on gender. Reality is, many smashers haven't had a drink in years(if not forever) so they are easily stimulated by the opposite sex. If they see one dressed as pikachu with a miniskirt, do you have any clue what that does to someone that lives for smash brothers video game? Insanity. It is what it is, don't go into the jungle with tigers and expect the tigers to change their behavior.

 

[ragnarock]

Milk who? The name alone makes many smashers d*ck itch. They're all types of female gamers, some good at the game, some attention *****s, some manipulate you for your money with their vag, etc....sure it happens, but I don't think anyone deserves special treatment, that further segregates gamers based on gender. Reality is, many smashers haven't had a drink in years(if not forever) so they are easily stimulated by the opposite sex. If they see one dressed as pikachu with a miniskirt, do you have any clue what that does to someone that lives for smash brothers video game? Insanity. It is what it is, don't go into the jungle with tigers and expect the tigers to change their behavior.

You damn right about that homie.

 

[Proobie44]

Let's just all shut up and play smash no matter what gender and/or race we happen to be. Then again that's unfortunately easier said then done.

 

[DeLux]

Thought I'd drop this here since it's relevant: http://clashtournaments.com/my-20-cents-celebrate-nana/

 

[ragnarock]

Nice article. But if ppl mindset don't change nothing is going to happen. And there mindset won't change.

 

[ManaX]

We shouldn't have to put up warning signs that your feelings/emotions might get offended/hurt.
It's a competitive environment. Bruised egos and salty tears are just a byproduct of this.

 

[ManaX]

Also, I demand more donuts at tourneys

 

[Justkallmekai]

All I want is the smash community to grow in to something big that everyone will enjoy watching, or will at least accept it, like Baseball. It's unlikely very unlikely that it'll happen, but it's possible.

 

[DunnoBro]

Still gonna make my **** jokes, I plan on actually treating women as equals, if it'd be okay around guys then it should be okay around you.