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Q&A Mewtwo Philosophy - Q&A Ask Away

Which topic would you like to discuss?

  • Analyzing your opponent

    Votes: 39 59.1%
  • What is a gimmick?

    Votes: 27 40.9%

  • Total voters
    66

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
word. ill keep that in mind about stage sizes. I often go dl trying to be super aggressive when ganon is off stage.

that fd son, make that dark fire and roast those marshmallows.

:phone:
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
in full agreement with taj, i'd avoid the 64 stages alltogether if i was playing the MU in tourny. Two of mewtwo's advantages are taken away on stages that size (the somewhat early uthrow kills and the edgeguarding).

Whereas on Yoshi's Ganondorf's like ''lol my fair covers half the stage and you're big light and easy to KO''

was hoping you'd expound on what i posted i suck @ write ups lol

:phone:
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
ok, thanks for the responses. Its funny i am not a great m2 but i bring him out for fun once and a while, and i can often beat my friends who r worst then me with him, except for this ganon. I just feel like i am doing work and somehow am coming out on the losing end anyway

Also just so i know ganon is consider to be a pretty hard MU right? and what would u say the ratio is?
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
I guess its probably like 65-35. considering fox is probably 8-2, falcon at least 7-3. taj thinks falco is 6o-4o and I am starting to agree with that, I feel like I got ***** sometime even tho I one or two stocked them. imo ganon isn't falcon hard but its not falco or the rest of the cast.

:phone:
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
i would say around the same as ganondorf for a different reason. Defensively falcon sucks. Bad techs, low priority (except a few key attacks), easy to juggle due to his fall speed, and an easy recovery to edgeguard. To beat falcon mewtwo needs to do what ganon has to do (interestingly enough): get that hyperactive racer to slow the **** down. Falcon lacks a long range projectile to camp with and his DD while amazing is limited against a player with a fast enough reaction speed. He's like fox without the gun and the one frame-answer-to-every-situation-move...

But then grab leads to knee at kill percents...

I dk tho i feel like a marth that knows how to fight mewtwo is far more challenging than a falcon... At least if mewtwo powersheilds falcons nair he can grab falcon between the kicks (it does work i've done it... In a tourny set no less actually)

but thinking about it... i think that i actually agree, it's probably 70-30 but there's no way it's any closer than 65-35 *shrugs* \ramble

:phone:
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
1,501
Location
MT. OLYMPUS, Arizona
The only thing that makes Marth equally hard to Falcon is if Marth gets critical strikes. (Tippers)

Overall, the match-ups are probably equally difficult. Marth controls the match better, but has trouble KOing if you're not getting tippered or up tilted. I take that back, Marth can KO from his combos, but he has to get the right launcher, and even hard hitters like Tai and Axe couldn't do that consistently to me. The important thing is to try not to jump out of the combos until you're certain they're too far to follow it up, or they're trying to combo into their forward smash.

You'll probably lose more stocks trying too hard to escape their combos than actually getting comboed.

Falcon runs circles around you, can start zoning knees on you, and every grab is potentially a stock. Mewtwo can at least combo him back somewhat and has an easier edgeguard than Marth. Mewtwo only wins against Falcons that think they're playing a bad character, IMO.

I'd still say they're both probably 70-30. You just get more chances against Marth, but you hit harder against Falcon.
 

ShadowSpear

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
112
Location
Orlando FL.
Yo, nice post Taj. I actually just got though playing at a tournment last night and i really need to work the Marth/Falcon MU myself as well. To me, i feel like i have 2 consistantly maintain a near perfect spacing with any of my arials or movement to be able to punish any openings or mistakes that were made, while at the same time having ability to react and avoid their onslaught of attacks that'll lead into ridiculous combos... It's kinda tough 2 stay consistant against those two characters however...

-$^

:phone:
 

McNinja

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
518
Location
Florida
Yeah that's what separates the low tiers from the high tiers. It's just so much easier for Marth and Falcon. As a low tier character, it just takes a lot more practice and experience to beat higher tier characters. It sucks, but when you finally earn that win, the feeling will be priceless.

:phone:
 

ItalianStallion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Springville, CA
Hey guys, what do you think about this recent friendly match? I had someone record me playing against this random Shiek player at my Tournament. I'd like for my M2 brothers to Critique this.

Link =
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=NLg_v2MEHOk

-$^

:phone:
Your link is no good, but I looked up the match on youtube.

I personally don't like Yoshi's Story against Sheiks with Mewtwo. I feel Sheik can just totally overwhelm Mewtwo with platform games. As far as critiquing your play, I am not really in the best position to judge since I need more experience and training, but I would say that you should try to chase your backthrows with bairs. Threaten Sheiks terrible recovery before teleporting for the cookies and getting a free throw or whatever on the landing lag.

That's it. That's all I got. :(
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
1,501
Location
MT. OLYMPUS, Arizona
Hey guys, what do you think about this recent friendly match? I had someone record me playing against this random Shiek player at my Tournament. I'd like for my M2 brothers to Critique this.

Link =
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=NLg_v2MEHOk

-$^

:phone:
Quick tips: Always Down throw Sheik unless your back is to the ledge. Then back throw her off and steal ledge to get free invincibility neutral airs if she goes high. Otherwise, just get up from stage and get regrabs if you force her up B.

Don't go to the air against her, stay grounded most of the match. Only look for aerials when she is directly above you and when you can neutral air shield stab her.

You're generally in good position to CC if you don't space correctly, you can react to Sheik's approaches, you can chase her retreats, and you have access to your best pokes against her while crouching and wavedashing.

Even though the matches are old, watch my matches against Forward and Omar's Sheiks. I wish some of my other matches against Sheik were recorded, but you should get a general idea on why it's good to be grounded against Sheik.
 

V3ctorMan

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
Sierra Vista AZ
Hey Taj, remember when my Mewtwo was better than yours? =D





















































Yeah never happened
XD!

Now Taj's Yoshi.........THAT'S another story! XD
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
i saw this video: www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-goo...=S5EtD-LwnvI&hl=en&v=S5EtD-LwnvI&rl=yes&gl=US

and it makes me interested in modifications that could be made to mewtwo. So to start up discussion on that again:

possible improvments that can be made to boost the character's potential without overpowering him.

1: teleport should not take 8 frames to have active invulnerability frames. Cut that in half to 4 frames.

2: should be at least samus's weight, floatiness should remain the same

3: remove at least one of the hurtboxes on his tail

4: change the properties of disable and confusion (taj has covered this several times and we both fully agree with his opinions, such as confusion REflecting projectiles and forcing opponents to tech when you catch them in it on the ground (maybe), and disable being able to sheild stab)

5: give the fully charged Shadowball a longer range

6: boost the knockback on the dair slightly

7: increase usmash and dsmash's damage output by at least 5%

8: mewtwo's fsmash already has a tipper with the exact same damage output as marth's percentwise. Now give the sweet spot similar payoff (ie knockback) to marth's - a dependable kill move

with these alterations mewtwo would be much more formidable (fitting the character better)

:phone:
I would like m2 to have a fox or falco speed jump. and maybe a faster dash. I really like the teleport at 4 frames. it means choose between low start up oos or low ending lag. D smash since it hits in 1 direction should have either more KB or damage...or just twice the range or make it hit both sides like a energy burst. remove a tail hurt box, f smash should be like marth. I would love if sb could be edge canceled or something. the range is fine. disable should have double range, confusion should reflect projectiles and at minimum allow u to shield as they can jump out. imo its a broken move if they are forced to tech, well maybe not broken but kinda cheap. imo I think while sb is charged m2 should do like 3 more damage per hit lol. jab is ok with high startup, but it should have low ending lag. down air should be a spike.

thats pretty much my ideal m2, or allow m2 to do 1 action after his teleport and then go into special fall.<3 one day im gonna hack m2 to be boss lol.

:phone:
:phone:
 

ItalianStallion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Springville, CA
i saw this video: www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-goo...=S5EtD-LwnvI&hl=en&v=S5EtD-LwnvI&rl=yes&gl=US

and it makes me interested in modifications that could be made to mewtwo. So to start up discussion on that again:
:phone:
I agree with those points. Also, a fully charged shadowball should have the range of a fully charged samus shot. It also should be comparable in damage. Baby shadowballs should have a little less landing lag. Disable and Confusion need to be improved to make them viable, probably more improved than what is being suggested. Forward throw should have more damage, or more knockback.

Probably though, the biggest improvement that could be made to Mewtwo is what Kaostar said: A faster Jump.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
a fully charged shadowball already does the same amount of damage as a charge shot and actually has more KB

i posted kaostar's stuff because i happen to agree with most of it. I can see how a faster jump could be a buff (moreso for bowser tho) but i fail to see how that could be a major improvment by itself lol

the fthrow could use more KB for sure

:phone:
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
I just had an epic dittos round of Mewtwo with my friend who is really good... Should have recorded it.

I think I will try and recreate it again.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
I just had an epic dittos round of Mewtwo with my friend who is really good... Should have recorded it.

I think I will try and recreate it again.
go for it, i don't see how mewtwo mirrors can be epic tho, i find them extremely annoying. It's a lot of baiting and poking, chipping away damage until one of you is at uthrow killing percent. It would be less annoying if you could actually combo eachother lol

but this is just my opinion *shrugs*

:phone:
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
go for it, i don't see how mewtwo mirrors can be epic tho, i find them extremely annoying. It's a lot of baiting and poking, chipping away damage until one of you is at uthrow killing percent. It would be less annoying if you could actually combo eachother lol

but this is just my opinion *shrugs*

:phone:
It was sort of like that. But I hadn't played dittos that many times before and it was a pretty fun experience. Both me and my friend aren't spammy sort of players, lots of trading blows and d-airs and such.
 

DJLO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
355
Location
Tallahassee
yo taj, got a q:

in shadowclaw two, theres a part where you use confusion on a captain falcon like 5 times in a row. how was this possible? couldnt he have just back aired you(since the lag time on confusion is more than the tumble lag it does to the enemy?)

was he just neglecting to back air?
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
1,501
Location
MT. OLYMPUS, Arizona
Pretty much. Most people just don't know that you can be punished for landing confusion. Not many people played Mewtwo against level 9 computers.
 

DJLO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
355
Location
Tallahassee
Pretty much. Most people just don't know that you can be punished for landing confusion. Not many people played Mewtwo against level 9 computers.
ok cool. i was testing confusion the other day, trying to see if there was any situation in which it was useful. i figured maybe the fastfallers would hit the ground before they culd back air(an idea i had in my head because of the cf clip).

looks like it is still only good for the battlefield glitch(and maybe reflecting peach , link and yl's bombs).

now to figure out a use for disable....
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
idk if this is the de facto social thread

but hey guys i'm making a balance patch and i think it's pretty okay sometimes

but i'm bad at mewtwo so have fun looking at my suck as i attempt to play mewtwo offensively

this is more like hype than anything but idk if i'm good at generating hype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dsS5RWUHBg

i'll learn to play mewtwo better for you guys :v

obv :151:
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
so much stuff but grouping it into generalities

faster run and dash
bigger shield
jump start-up 5 -> 4 frames
no more sweetspot system on tail
smashes more powerful
disable does 12% (lol), bigger hitboxes, faster start-up
f-air sweeps from the head down kinda like sheik's f-air with less overall range but longer duration
dair is a spike
landing hitbox of nair sends people upwards
grab ranges have increased

stuff

obv :150:
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Only way to do that would be to add a meteor or spike hitbox at the end of the animation since the throw's knockback stats are not read during the special.

Confusion is horribly programmed since it fails in both reflecting and forcing techs. Can't really fix this I'm afraid. :(
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
looked into that and here's the catch-22 lol:

mewtwo has 16 frames of disadvantage on confusion
opponent is sent into tumble with no hitstun so they can act immediately
a disadvantage of 8 frames or less allows mewtwo to possibly do pseudo-infinites with confusion.

which is fake but super lame

if only disable (air) and confusion sent opponents into actual hitstun. <_<
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
did you make him any heavier?

(cell reception is making the video a pain in the butt)

EDIT: we were actually discussing mewtwo buffs on the last page lol

:phone:
 
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