Q&A Mewtwo Philosophy - Q&A Ask Away

[Dr Peepee]

Sorry for the long break. I've actually had many posts typed up, but I've deleted all of them, mostly because I've been in a pretty somber mood and I think they reflected that. I'm also pretty sure many people would have taken my posts the wrong way anyway, so I just refrained from posting in general. I guess that habit of mine is why I have so few posts in general. I keep trying to remind myself that this is just my small corner of the internet that probably only a handful of people even read and I shouldn't really care what I say here, but name dropping always has its consequences.

Apex is coming up, and unless I decide to further perpetuate my debt, or come across some loot, I'm not going to be attending this year. Unless I happen to get random weekends off of work and a carpool, I'm probably not going to any OoS tournaments for a while until I get my life on track.

I had some reflections of part 3 I was going to post, but instead I'll just throw them into another aspect of pro-gaming psychology I've been thinking about,

Self-Efficacy and Pride

Self-efficacy is the individual's capacity for accomplishing a goal or task. It is essentially linked with a person's self-confidence and the positive connotation of pride.

I took pride in being the best Mewtwo player, I was proud of myself in 06-07, and I took pride in my game sense and game knowledge. For the last four years, most people probably considered me a mediocre player. (Maybe even bad in the competitive sense) During the Mango era, all of a sudden my style that some people called unique and cool is now being called gay and campy. I hadn't placed top 5 at a major tournament in four years either. I was a good player when it was convenient for the people that beat me, otherwise I was essentially just that Mewtwo player.

It is easy to recognize when people don't want to lose. It is also easy to ignore when people don't want to win. In competition, you don't want to empathize with anyone. Unfortunately, I still tend to empathize with people when I sense that they're distraught. It throws me off; it makes me uncomfortable, probably because of my generally good nature. When people get frustrated, especially over these last couple of years, it just starts taking it's toll on me more and more, and even if they're not angry at me, it still creates a negative environment that makes it hard to have fun. (A player's actions, even if directed toward themselves, can have an effect on those around them.)

I'm really impressionable. If I'm trying to have fun and it just takes one display of frustration, or one negative comment, and I'm often silent and solemn for the rest of the day.

There's a reason why a lot of people love playing with Axe. He is the embodiment of positive reinforcement. Even if you're the most horrible player on the planet, his sandbagging makes you feel like you're always a top 10 player sometimes. He will almost always have something encouraging and positive to say. He's so enthusiastic, that even if you know that it's not REALLY that impressive, the overall mood of your session is just... better. It's just nice being acknowledged for something every once in a while, and realistically it's why a lot of us want to become famous players. The acknowledgement and respect feels good. Even if you're not the best player in the world it's easier to listen to what you did right and watch videos of yourself winning than hear how bad you are and get linked videos of you getting *****.

The time I've spent with Axe made me want to promote more positive smash experiences with other people, but unfortunately my best intentions have recently back-fired on me as I expressed my point of view to someone that has a habit of venting their frustrations while playing. Coupled with my extended depression, I just haven't been in the bestest of moods to play much of anything lately.

I'm not completely innocent to the effects of pride and commitment either. For most of my smash career, my pride and self-efficacy were battling against my desire to be meek and understanding. I wanted to cherish the friendships and connections that I have made form SSBM and just enjoy playing the game. However, I always have a standard of excellence that I've strived to uphold for those observing me. Because of my insecurities, I've deluded myself into playing selectively.

Funnily enough, this attitude is what got me third at Genesis 2, but it is also possible it is why I only got third. I didn't go to the tournament wanting or expecting to win. I wanted to talk to people, enjoy the experience, watch Wobbles and Axe take top 5, and relive the hype from the Armada and Mango rivalry.

My goals as a competitor were really simple. Beat every Falco, win against a top 5 Falcon, and make it out of pools. I reached all the goals I had created, but in retrospect, I feel like having too much pride in anything is double edged. I had so much pride in being able to win against Falco that I didn't even consider losing to be an option until relatively recently.

You get the questions like, "What happens if I lose?" "How do I take the criticism?" You're put into a position where you're encouraged to make excuses, be salty, or be humbled to the point where you may not recover, and that matchup becomes a problem for you.

Basically, it can cause a slump.

The only answer to these problems as a man with an ego that doesn't want to show it is just to embrace the humility and work through it. Some of the worst smash moments of my life are still hindering my progress in reaching my last goal as a professional player. I could lose to Falcos and ICs despite them being my best matchups, and the public backlash would sting, but it won't affect my understanding of the match-up more than what I would need to refine it.

My ego isn't so large that I NEED to be the best. I'm not conceited enough to think that I have to piss and moan, whine and complain, anytime that I lose. I'm better than that, and I wish other people were, too. I understand that it hurts to make mistakes, it hurts to lose in anything that you put personal stake in, and I don't want to say that it's wrong to feel that way. I want to win my own way, with my own passion, through my own painful mistakes, without compromising my integrity.

I want to be the best I can be at what I do, if I'm the best at it, that's good too. Being the greatest ever can be a poisoning goal to those around you, because your development may not be satisfactory due to... the existence of someone else on the planet that is better than you. Make realistic goals for yourself, acknowledge that you'll make mistakes and adjust your play around those mistakes until they're corrected. Trying to force mistakes down under stress seems to result in destructive behavior.

I wish I could play in tournament the way I do in friendlies, but when I watch my videos... I'm stiff and I'm messing up tons of inputs until I gain a huge momentum swing and I start feeling myself. :D

I would apologize for the length on this one, but lol it's in the Mewtwo forums so you're already bored.

I have a few more things I want to go into detail on later. I'll try not to wait as long this time.

Let me know what you three people that read this think about this post and about the impact of branding players as gay, ragers, baddies, and other negative generalizations has had on the smash community and your general smashfests.

This bothers me.

I feel you on a lot of this. We should chat sometime. =)

Also, I kinda ran into the EXACT same issue of not feeling like I wanted to accomplish much else lately. This is easily solved by making up more goals, but exactly where the drive for each goal now comes from and why they matter just as much as my old ones I've had for so much longer....I can't quite say haha. I just know that making more is right and I'll be able to piece together why it was better when all is said and done.

Also, having a big ol bro community and being in a serious face tournament is a duality that will screw over lots of smashers. I'd love nothing more personally than to goof off most tournaments and play friendlies and yell "FSMASH!!!!" all of the time(because everyone's Fsmash is really hype obviously lol) but I prioritize winning more due to my desire to prove myself(maybe to reinforce my own "pride" in myself.....that's a big sticky topic lol you definitely kept it concise imo). Point is, usually you gotta make a choice what you wanna do before the tournament starts, and then stick to it as best as you can. All of these regrets and what ifs shouldn't be happening....you made a decision not to go for it all and you had a great time and placed 3rd. That's pretty darn awesome how that worked out lol so I'd be happy AND IGNORE THOSE NOOBS that think they know better than what YOU know(seriously the best thing you can tell yourself btw especially because it's true haha....plus it keeps your emotions safer).

I am rambling and haven't slept in almost a day so I am going to stop typing now. Basically you're a cool dude and let's talk or something(remind me to get on skype I never do that rofl).


Write more posts imo.

 

[_Rocky_]

Excellent post yo

 

[KAOSTAR]

to start off id like to say that I hope you can get your life to a point in which you can look back and be proud of. just sayin, I believe.

its funny, but I feel your posts are always so easy to relate to. being able to take a step back and see things as they are is an important insight to reality. you just tell it like it is.

ive very recently found that when it comes to competitive, tournament level serious *** no smiles melee, you gotta do what you gotta do.if you can tell they are playing like they don't want to win, its ok cuz you do. I believe that all of that is just another aspect that gets in the way of playing your best. for awhile ive struggled with being too worried about the outcome of the match, what will people think, what if im not playing technical enough. all that does is make it easy to lose focus. melee is pretty simple if you think about it as don't let them hit you, and hit them in such a way that you can hit them again or take a stock. it should be just you vs the opponent, anything else is just added pressure, it can only set you up for failure and psyching yourself out.

friendlies its a little harder to make that distinction, having fun is am important part of the game. at the end of the day its why we play at all. its hard when players generally have those negative moments, makes ppl uneasy. I made a personal rule that amongst "friends" I won't play if they are mad/upset, imo it can lead to beef and bring out skeletons lol.

everybody is entitled to their own opinion but I do wish people generally had a more positive outlook on the game. ive learned that you gotta respect your opponent, and don't be worried about taking an L. just from watching marvel 3 vidZ, not with dark phoenix cuz thats bs, that even the best players lose, sometimes they even get bodied, but what makes them better than most is how they react to those situations. sometimes it just takes a bit of humility(public) for people to be able to put things into perspective.

 

[Tee ay eye]

daaaaaaaaaad

 

[arbustos]

- ignore -

 

[Shadow Huan]

i complain a lot. I usually do it in good humor tho: for example someone thought i was angry @ Darc last time he double 4 stocked me because of how i was reacting, but had they been close enough they would've realized that both of us were laughing (the fact that darc's mad cool and i was kidding around helps)

i've raged, complained and been loud at several tournies and practice sessions, i've lost tourny sets to people i am capable of beating because i lost my cool, and i've disrespected people for no reason thanks to my occasionally bad additude

and usually my being upset has everything to do with me. I get angry at myself for little mistakes and big ones. if i'm playing on point and still loose i have no problem (Gmoney bodied me for like an hour in frendlies and i took it as a learning experience)

well lately i've been trying to take my frustration and use it to focus better. I've discovered i've learned to block stuff out. If i have a smash goal, it's to be the highest placing marth\sheik player in NE... well behind KDJ anyways. I was the highest placing marth at the last tourny i went to and i wanna continue that as a tradition lol

this was really rambled out sorry lol

 

[ItalianStallion]

This bothers me.

It doesn't really bother me.

My best character is probably Luigi. When he lived near me, I used to play a Peach main all the time. He never timed me out once in a match. He always fought me like a man(Woman?) and while he has a campy play-style, he never went to any extreme.

I can sympathize with those who get their play-style labeled as "gay" because they aren't as aggressive. Most of the time, that label is tossed around too quickly and too often. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any times when a play-style can be criticized.

This game is not balanced properly. And when a player with a huge character advantage over another just plays to that advantage, he/she is going to be criticized and harassed. It would be like Fox laser camping a Kirby on Dreamland until U-smash percentage. Not only will the Kirby player have a near impossible time catching the Fox, but even when the Kirby player does catch the Fox, he/she will have to deal with the problem of being a worse character than Fox. It's a terrible way to play the game, and should not be endorsed.

Now while I actually don't know exactly how the Light vs Eddy match went, I know that Eddy was timed out twice. Peach can go far away from the stage (Out of Luigi's reach), and stay there for a while. Peach also has a good projectile. Now I am not saying that Luigi doesn't have any advantages against Peach either, but she is overall a better character than he is. And when you stack on the fact that she is going to be camping him out of his reach, it makes the whole match a huge uphill battle for the Luigi to have to catch the Peach, and then have to watch out for her turnips, D-smash, and other moves that make her a better character.

If people want to play that way, fine. But they shouldn't complain when they aren't being cheered on, or when they are being criticized. They are playing in a way that makes the game way less fun. The reason why the people who play with a lot of tech skill/flashy combos/high risk-high reward moves get cheered on more, is because they aren't playing safely. They aren't playing completely to the advantage of their character and the disadvantage of their opponents. They aren't camping forever. They are "crowd-pleasers". If someone doesn't care about pleasing the crowd, then that's fine. But again, don't complain when a displeased crowd boos you (Not endorsing booing, as I think it is tacky, but just making a point).

That being said, aggressive and defensive play-styles should both be options for the player to use. However, people will form opinions about which style they like best. And while I don't like insults, booing, and other disrespective/non-classy behavior in general, I still think people should be able to insult the play-style of whomever they want to (Except commentators. They have a job to do da**it.).

 

[Dexident]

I play Mewtwo out of pure stubbornness and dedication. I main him for the same reason that he was in my main six in Pokemon Yellow. He's the ultimate dark pokemon, with a troubled past and epic mental powers. In all reality he should have been one of the most powerful characters in melee.

I play him still because he was my favorite character in the game, I just liked his story and the sentimental value attached to him. I've mained him since the very first time I played melee and I have continued to do so ever since. It wasn't until a year or two ago that I actually did any amount of research and realized that he was considered a terrible terrible character. But by then I had already refined my Mewtwo to a fine art, and one that constantly demands improvement.

Like others have said, playing him is always a story of being an underdog. But to claim victory you must be smart, calm and accurate. I raged very hard when I found out he wasn't included in Brawl. I still am disappointed. It's the reason I started maining Lucario because was the closest thing to Mewtwo that there was. I still believe that he BETTER be in the next smash bros, no excuses.

Mewtwo is awesome and I will never stop playing him, and often times winning.

 

[Shadow Huan]

it's really tough to swallow that the most powerful uber tier pokemon at the time of melee's release was realized so horribly. Honestly they didn't wanna overpower mewtwo but they went too far in the opposite direction. Back when i was a casual player i realized that mewtwo was not a good character... Had something to do with being easy to kill and hard to kill with

Then i saw shadowclaw 2, which started me learning advanced techs. I still mained marth and bowser at the time. I had a hard time believing that they rated bowser higher than mewtwo back then, i knew that mewtwo was better than bowser: combos + mobility > killing power in a head to head.

I played bowser a few rounds last month and found i've still got some good instinct with him, honestly i'd main bowser if he was a little faster

but i main marth (cause i love swords)

anyways at the last tourny i went to i was playing mewtwo and someone walked up and guessed who i was. I do enjoy playing the character, and since i'm still know for playing him i'm gonna practice up again. I'm baaaaaaaack

boy that was a ramble...

 

[Castrate]

I just got into this cult of a game a few months back, but as soon as I learned most of the ATs I mained with C. Falc, but then it became boring because the learning curve becomes so steep with characters like Falcon and Falco (high to upper tier).

In my boredom, I sincerely did want to just "**** around" and ever since, I've been playing as much mewtwo as I can. It's frustrating, but rewarding.

I think it was M2K vs Anon (Falco) that got me really into it. I saw M2K go under FD and I wanted to do that super bad. Then I started watching Taj's videos, and want to combo like a bau5....

This game really is a cult.

 

[Shadow Huan]

a... cult? I'm sure that's not the correct definition

''The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a new religious movement or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.'' - wikipedia

obsession or hobby are more commonly used lol

also i can't believe that the mewtwo boards are so dead -.-

 

[Castrate]

It really is a cult though, just because the learning curve has such a steep incline until one learns ATs. It's a real thing, but I do admit the connotation behind the word is a bit off. So my apologies.

I agree, I'm upset about the activity, or lack thereof, in this topic.

 

[Moooose]

I just got into this cult of a game a few months back, but as soon as I learned most of the ATs I mained with C. Falc, but then it became boring because the learning curve becomes so steep with characters like Falcon and Falco (high to upper tier).

In my boredom, I sincerely did want to just "**** around" and ever since, I've been playing as much mewtwo as I can. It's frustrating, but rewarding.

I think it was M2K vs Anon (Falco) that got me really into it. I saw M2K go under FD and I wanted to do that super bad. Then I started watching Taj's videos, and want to combo like a bau5....

This game really is a cult.

glad i could contribute to the growth of this game LOL

 

[Shadow Huan]

no need to apologize

and yeah the lack of activity is due to there being like two or three well known mewtwo players... who don't even main mewtwo lol. Taj's marth is far scarier than his mewtwo imo (at least against falco and other marths). Vman left for yoshi, Kaostar plays mewtwo but i haven't seen him in here in a long while, Quak stopped playing at least a year ago probably longer. I'm pretty well known in NE for mewtwo but like taj i main marth.

lol it's been so quiet in here i've dropped by and heard the wind whistling -_-

EDIT: M2K's mewtwo is really good but also really really strange lol

 

[V3ctorMan]

No worries, my Mewtwo is still amazing. I promise!

Ask Taj!

Spoiler

My Roy's pretty sick too.

Tony knows^

 

[Shadow Huan]

what did'ja do namesearch? lol

i bet it is. Wish i had stuck with the character tho. My mewtwo has not seen the improvement my marth has. My sheik is a lot better too. My fox... is good or bad.... depends on the day lol

how's the dino?

Spoiler

and the swordsman?

 

[Taj278]

Man, I just don't know what I want to post about anymore. Sorry for the lack of activity, but I just don't know where to start.

So umm... how about we turn this into some Q&A. Ask me my opinion on anything Mewtwo/SSBM metagame related until I figure out what I want to post about next.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Marth vs Falco! =)

I'm playin Marth some too now so you know.....


or something about offense lol

 

[Tee ay eye]

how good is your samus

 

[AXE 09]

What it izz?

Spoiler

You should play M2 more... I love your M2 =(

 

[Tee ay eye]

you should play samus more

 

[ItalianStallion]

Spoiler

You should play M2 more... I love your M2 =(

Yes. What he said. And record it more. There isn't enough pro footage to train from, which is a big reason why my Fox is sooo much better than my Mewtwo right now.

What's the best way to edgeguard a Ganon? Well...actually, how 'bout a different question. How come nair isn't used more in edguarding? I mean, since you can determine your opponent's direction after the move ends, it seems like it could be really nasty. I would test it myself, but I have no one to play with and CPU's are not too creative with their recoveries.

If you didn't notice, I am trying to improve my edguarding with Mewtwo. It just seems like he can be so nasty in this department, but I don't feel that competent at it with him.

 

[V3ctorMan]

what did'ja do namesearch? lol

i bet it is. Wish i had stuck with the character tho. My mewtwo has not seen the improvement my marth has. My sheik is a lot better too. My fox... is good or bad.... depends on the day lol

how's the dino?

Spoiler

and the swordsman?

I didn't haha, i just lurk.............alot, and thought I needed to reply.. As for Yoshi/Roy/m2, they're doing fine... though I don't play often at all anymore.. but i'm sure my abilities to play them won't fade anytime soon. (i hope)

What it izz?

Spoiler

You should play M2 more... I love your M2 =(

Ho....

And you should also play Roy more Tony, you're Roy is siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

 

[Taj278]

@PP- What did you want to know about the match-up?

@Tai- My Samus is as good as Fierce Grape Gatorade. :D

@Axe- I'll play more M2 if I can get a good M2 controller again.

@ItalianStallion- The best way to edgeguard Ganon is usually to deny edge if his double jump barely makes it there and use a combination of Super Ultra Ninja Cookies and Down Smash to guarantee the kill. If he goes for sweet spot, take those cookies. If not just charge down smash and wait until he is a little above the ledge so he can't tech.

If he's knocked super far horizontally, just jump out there and intercept his down b recovery with back airs. Ganon's a pretty easy edgeguard for M2, the hard part is getting him there and not too high that he can land on stage easily.

Also, neutral air is ok for edgeguards on characters with bad horizontal recovery and aren't too floaty. Basically characters like Falco, and MAYBE Doc, Roy and Sheik. The main problem with using it to edgeguard is that they can just DI up and they'll get plenty of height to recover and you're usually not in the position you need to be to continue the edgeguard properly.

It has its place, but it is really situational.

@Vman- My Roy balls so hard.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@PP- What did you want to know about the match-up?

@Tai- My Samus is as good as Fierce Grape Gatorade. :D

@Axe- I'll play more M2 if I can get a good M2 controller again.

@ItalianStallion- The best way to edgeguard Ganon is usually to deny edge if his double jump barely makes it there and use a combination of Super Ultra Ninja Cookies and Down Smash to guarantee the kill. If he goes for sweet spot, take those cookies. If not just charge down smash and wait until he is a little above the ledge so he can't tech.

If he's knocked super far horizontally, just jump out there and intercept his down b recovery with back airs. Ganon's a pretty easy edgeguard for M2, the hard part is getting him there and not too high that he can land on stage easily.

Also, neutral air is ok for edgeguards on characters with bad horizontal recovery and aren't too floaty. Basically characters like Falco, and MAYBE Doc, Roy and Sheik. The main problem with using it to edgeguard is that they can just DI up and they'll get plenty of height to recover and you're usually not in the position you need to be to continue the edgeguard properly.

It has its place, but it is really situational.

@Vman- My Roy balls so hard.

Sorry, didn't know how large of posts you were writing so I didn't specify haha.

How do you deal with lasers? How do you deal with pressure from Falco? Why do you like the matchup so much?


Ummm also I wanna talk Marth with you eventually you know your stuff. =)

 

[Shadow Huan]

a falco main wants to know how to deal with the lasers? For some reason i find that really really really funny. (no disrespect intended mind you pp, you're freaking good)

Yes. What he said. And record it more. There isn't enough pro footage to train from, which is a big reason why my Fox is sooo much better than my Mewtwo right now.

not to bring you down, but you'll only know how good or bad your fox (and mewtwo) are once you play against ppl. Being able to do the fox tech stuff is great and shows dedication, but being able to apply it against a thinking opponent who knows ways around it will be your true test. Too bad that you have to practice alone :\

If you didn't notice, I am trying to improve my edguarding with Mewtwo. It just seems like he can be so nasty in this department, but I don't feel that competent at it with him.

mewtwo's offstage edgeguarding game revolves around bair and uair usually. Uair is much more situational, bair is really good. Dsmash is good for onstage edgeguarding + everything taj said. Other situational options include: fully charged Shadowball, disable (so situational it's not even applicable lol), dair (can be canceled), nair (can be smash DI'ed), fair (works as a kill if the opponent's damage is high enough), and fsmash (it's tipped range is really good and charged it's actually pretty strong). Don't think i left anything out lol

I didn't haha, i just lurk.............alot, and thought I needed to reply.. As for Yoshi/Roy/m2, they're doing fine... though I don't play often at all anymore.. but i'm sure my abilities to play them won't fade anytime soon. (i hope)

that's too bad, sorta lol. Good to see you're still around tho. One of my fellow crew members plays roy btw, you should check out some of the videos! (and you can see my fox on a ''meh'' day lolmao)

@ taj: what's your opinion on the sheik vs m2 matchup? Been playing it a lot lately and i feel like the more aggressive sheik is the easier the MU is to play, whereas a defensive sheik is a horrible pain in the ***

 

[ItalianStallion]

Thanks Taj.

not to bring you down, but you'll only know how good or bad you fox (and mewtwo) are once you play against ppl. Being able to do the fox tech stuff is great and shows dedication, but being able to apply it against a thinking opponent who knows ways around it will be your true test. Too bad that you have to practice alone :\

Well, although I don't have someone to play most of the time, there are some rare times where I will be able to play some people, whether they come here or I go there. And the last time I played, I did best with my Fox. I was told that I play smarter with him than with any other character I use. I think that may have something to do with the fact that I can see many Fox videos online, but only a handful of pro Mewtwo vids.

And I agree with the sheik matchup thing. Aggressive sheiks are much easier to play than defensive ones. The main thing I think Mewtwo has against sheik is a backthrow, to an edgehog, which causes sheik to have a lot of recovery lag when she lands on stage, to set up another backthrow. It's easier to keep getting a backthrow to throw sheik far enough if an aggressive sheik keeps charging at you when you are by the ledge, so you can wait for a shield grab.

 

[Shadow Huan]

the problem with sheik isn't the edgeguarding, it's getting the ***** up to damage. A defensive shiek is a tough nut to crack for characters not named fox and falco (and even they have some problems)

if i'm gonna keep playing mewtwo i have to practice, my mewtwo was moving like a freaking old man at the crew casuals tonight

 

[Taj278]

I don't think a defensive or aggressive Sheik makes the match-up easier one way or another. It really just boils down to how they're playing. A Sheik that aggressively and perfectly zones forward air and neutral airs on me is harder than a defensive Sheik that's trying to platform needle camp me. If they're good, they're good, and Sheik just has the better options whether she is going in, or hanging back.

You're just more likely to get reversals on a more aggressive Sheik, because you're more likely to get a good CC tilt/grab, but that's pretty much it.

@PP- I guess it depends on how the Falco is lasering. If it is Axe or the Man of go, I mostly just look for their "spots." There are certain zones where they like to laser to guarantee their flawless approaches and I try my best to PS or make wide movements to try and throw them off in those locations.

Players that like to zone lasers a bit more to try and get me to move, I just powershield about 30% of them and see what they do. If they don't stop trying to laser zone me at that point, then I inch forward and time a PS approach since I get better at powershielding when I'm approaching for some reason.

Falco pressure is still hard for me to deal with, since I don't have much techskill. But generally, I just grit my teeth if they manage to get in on me and try keep my eyes open for any mistakes or openings. Generally, you're just going to get forced off the level or grabbed once the pressure is rolling from players of your caliber. I don't think I have any tricks or anything to deal with pressure from players like Axe, I mostly just respect him enough to not reach for shield grabs unless it is a more obvious one.

Otherwise... if you just see it coming... Counter, lol. Sometimes their approaches are a little too perfect so you punish them for it, and force them to mix it up, giving you an opportunity to chase them before they can reset themselves for their next approach. If you land one or two counters, you can start feinting it and they'll start hesitating on their approaches a bit giving you time to forward air/grab.

I like the Falco match-up just because I have about an 80% chance of killing the bird when I throw him off stage. I work really hard to scratch him, and when I do, I'm generally fast enough to cover almost every option off of intuition or quick decision making. Very few things give me more joy than seeing Falco off stage and dying.

Realistically, I think it's the same reason Wobbles likes the Peach match-up with ICs. It always used to give him so many problems, but he eventually worked some things out and made the match-up much more manageable. I kind of did the same thing with Falco. Forward used to **** the **** out of me, but then I fixed that hole in my edgeguarding, and I got a lot more consistent at it. I think that greatly encouraged him to develop his Sheik to deal with my Marth and I just got a lot of confidence specializing in that match-up since then.

That hole in my edgeguarding was inspired by Forward's tales of M2K when he came back from traveling. He told me Wes called it "Blowing out the candle" and that little realization was just HUGE to me, and I got significantly better against spacies because of it. Though I still struggle a bit more against Fox, because his recovery is a bit more dynamic.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Very cool, thanks for the response man. =)

 

[KAOSTAR]

im always around lol. I just been practicing fox technics.
lately I have been getting a little frustrated playing mewtwo, mainly because of how easily one mistake gets you killed, compared to fox where I have time to throw out attacks and do mini tech skill routines mid match.

luckily for me tho my mistakes are technical errors, and im still getting caught out of my wave dash. im just not as precise with the character even tho im a better player now. ill practice the two up and put out some videos or something. if anything I should eliminate these technical errors, best way is to play.

mewtwo for life tho son!

 

[Shadow Huan]

yeah i've had my marth in the lab for a while, still working out the kinks, and my mewtwo has suffered greatly. (and my sheik and fox have more or less stayed at the same level).

Life (a player in our crew) doesn't even practice mewtwo and was beating me in mirrors last practice session. My mewtwo gameplay is superior technically and i know much more about the character but as i said my last post i couldn't move the character very fast and missed a lot of easy punishes, whereas he did stuff he'd seen me do and used it against me

lots of old bad habits to get rid of and movement problems to smooth out

i have videos from last summer when i was just sorta playing the character every now and then, nothing recent tho: we need to revive this forum lol

 

[NJzFinest]

‎"A journal quote from the Pokémon Mansion states that Mewtwo's birthday is February 6."

HAPPY BDAY MEW2 EVERYONE, PARTY HARD 2NITE

 

[Tee ay eye]

This is relevant to the topic

[collapse="Scumbag SOMEONE"]

[/collapse]

 

[Shadow Huan]

This is relevant to the topic

[collapse="Scumbag SOMEONE"]

[/collapse]

what

10 what

 

[V3ctorMan]

lmao. I <3 Tony, that story fits very well...

Spoiler

My Mewtwo's still better though..

 

[Shadow Huan]

wrong my mewtwo is the best in the world! My skill level with the character is so high that the game can't handle it and makes the character suck just to bring my mood down

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

so i am sure this has been brought up somewhere b4, but how do u fight ganon? when i try i just get spaced with fair and die

 

[Shadow Huan]

try not to fight ganon on a really small stage. Throw baby shadow balls just outside of the fair's range and try to get ganon to over commit to something. Use mewtwo's superior mobility (ie long wavedash and teleport tricksies) to punish wiffed moves. Wavedash into dtilit or grab (or something else fast, nair maybe?)

Once you have an opening grab into dthrow into tech chase\dtilt at low percents, dtilt into an air combo at medium percents, (your move choice will depend on the ganon's DI) which is good in your favor, because once mewtwo gets an opening ganon's just a big target waiting to be hit a lot lol.

At high percents it's just a matter of tacking on damage until you can get a fair, uthrow or you put ganon off the stage for an edgeguard.

For edgeguarding, follow taj's advice: don't do anything fancy, just jump out there and bair until he dies. Steal his cookies at every opportunity. Don't get hit with a recovery downB..

For such a heavyweight ganon dies off the top pretty quickly, see the match thread for the magic number for the uthrow kill

Mind you against a good ganondorf it's a difficult MU even if you play it perfectly

 

[Taj278]

I'd also add that you GENERALLY don't want to fight Ganon on big stages like DL64 or KJ64. The main reason is that your best approach and stopper against Ganon is a short hopped forward baby shadow ball into wavedash to make him "do" something. Since Ganon doesn't have too many great ways to cancel out projectiles aside from being in the air and forward airing, it forces him to shield/jump/sidestep and from that you can create openings.

The problem with approaching Ganon on a big stage like DL and KJ64 are the wide and high platforms. Ganon can jump to escape and play off of the top platforms where he has a HUGE advantage over you. Now he can delay and fastfall his forward airs/ down airs on top of you. He can jump away and threaten back air on you if you chase, it just blows up his options against your approach. I'd only play these stages if you get percentage and stock lead.

Even if they're bigger, you still die kinda early, so take medium sized stages so you still have plenty of room to run, platforms are closer together so it's harder for him to run on top of the stage (Even if BF has the highest platforms, M2 can still chase him better there than DL), and you still get reasonable KO percentages.

So yeah, you're basically looking to grab/tilt/chase his jump away with neutral air. You want to play smart, but you also need the courage to interrupt his forward air attempts when you can. Don't get baited into his reverse forward airs, but if your'e on top of him, you should be able to get him first with your 5 frame neutral air.

If he's pressuring you, you'll slide pretty well away from his attacks, so watch out for empty hops into grab since that's going to lead to guaranteed finishers. If he forward airs your shield, don't be afraid to retreat to ledge and let your shield get back to full. There's not much Ganon can do to your invincible ledge stall. If he challenges it (Almost every Ganon will the first time they play you), just neutral air him and enjoy your free techchase.

A lot of Mewtwos like the match-up. I'm kind of indifferent, because in this match-up a reserved spacing Ganon that plays it correctly is a very tough cookie to crack. You need to be on the right stages to beat Ganons that play like that and you can't fall behind or it gets worse. Aggressive Ganons are easier to deal with, because Mewtwo is just better at countering approaches. Mewtwo's approach only works if the opponent wants to play footsies with you because M2's anti-SHFFL game is pretty weak due to his size.