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@Babar-Thorbald I'm sure you're right, it's just that the max damage chart linked in the OP doesn't go into decimals for damage, so it's hard for me to confirm something like that at a glance.
@Kosaki I just tested it with Link and his bombs and got the same result. Link does a funny little twitch like he's trying to start the smash attack but then just returns to neutral stance. item smash dancing confirmed?
The only damage that has increased in his throws is his U-throw, unless there is some weight/z-axis shenanigans giving you extra damage on other characters. These are exactly what happens to Mario when you throw him as Charizard
If this is true I may have to like, quit the game.
This in itself is one of the major reasons why I prefer Brawl's (and Smash 4s) engine over melee. It's just apart of how I use my moves... I NEVER ACTUALLY TILT and A... it's always c sticking things... just... can't..
ugh
how I do everything out of perfect pivots or dashes just got ruined pretty much.
So gg 5-6 years of tech skill !_!
lol wut. how is it gonna be that much harder to perfect pivot tilt by not using the cstick? just learn it shaya. more like 5-6 years of lack of tech skill. if you are perfect pivoting properly then learning how to tilt should be easy. it require pretty much the same soft touch lool.
Also, I would like Verification that the knockback of Charizards U-throw has been decreased. While I do play Charizard I am not dedicated to him, however U-throw is not killing at expected percents. A dedicated Charizard main may likely be able to confirm whether or not this has been decreased.
CONFIRMED: Bowser has DECIDEDLY more control over the trajectory of flying slam now.
Haven't tested the exact numbers, but even at 45%, Bowser klawing a 0% opponent was able to steer the move in his direction slightly while the opponent was holding the other direction completely! :D
Also, I would like Verification that the knockback of Charizards U-throw has been decreased. While I do play Charizard I am not dedicated to him, however U-throw is not killing at expected percents. A dedicated Charizard main may likely be able to confirm whether or not this has been decreased.
Specials:
T-Jolt - 4% -6%
Skullbash - Uncharged is 9%, Charged is 21%. I don't notice any KB difference.
Thunder - 15% if next to Pika when thunder hits him, 8% with bolt, 6% from the base, and if spiked down into Pikachu, I think it does 15%. Not sure though. If you know otherwise, please tell me.
In other words, nothing changed, as far as I know.
I'll be checking Charizard for a friend, and Jigglypuff as she is my second. I'll be posting these later in this thread.
Just checked the knockback, its the same thing lol. Although I can't say much else about the rest of pits attacks since most of them do more damage at the tip, I can test that later, kinda sleepy right now.
It's not exactly that way. It still Links into Jab 2 as fast, but if you want to do something else you have to go to idle animation first, so you can't jab cancel with it anymore at all.
Im certainly aware it wasn't spectacular, but I was under the assumption that it would kill ~ @203%, and its not killing Mario/Pit till what 230+% for me. Which either means a misunderstanding from the pastebin (which is fine), or they've counteracted the increased damage by decreasing the KB, which wouldn't be out of the ordinary. I assumed it would kill earlier due to the effect of increased damage on KB, but for it to be killing later says otherwise.
I'm hearing from multiple reliable Mega Man sources that the final hit of U-Air appears to send people higher at first glance. This is almost certainly a buff in base knockback and is likely accompanied with a knockback growth nerf to balance it out.
In the previous version, everything but the final hit was fixed knockback, while the final hit had pitiful BKB and obscene KBG--
tl;dr--Low-percent Mega Man falling U-Air -> jumping U-Air combos aren't really a thing anymore, but the increased BKB likely means KOs at lower percents will work when you catch people high up.
At first I thought Zelda was 100% unchanged, (Which is really sad lol.) but upon closer inspection of her multi-hit smash attacks, there is little doubt to me that Fsmash (And quite possibly Usmash.) received a tiny bit of tuning improving their possibility of connecting all the way through.
Fsmash on ZSS in 1.0.4-5, it would cause ZSS to be shot behind her in a tumble animation, even when ZSS was on the ground. Now, ZSS when hit by the multi-hits of Fsmash does not go into any tumble animation, even when tested at 999%. (Ground and air.) Sometimes I can still get it to drop characters, but now it takes more work to drop poeple (Other than just ZSS as well.) than it does to connect properly now. I'm not as sure that Usmash really got any improvements.
Zelda Forward Smash Some alteration(s) made to the loop hit-boxes strengthening its ability to connect properly.
Also, I would like Verification that the knockback of Charizards U-throw has been decreased. While I do play Charizard I am not dedicated to him, however U-throw is not killing at expected percents. A dedicated Charizard main may likely be able to confirm whether or not this has been decreased.
@ChronoPenguin
I tried using the KO% chart linked in the OP to figure this out. Couldn't see whether they used Mario on FD in the middle or at the starting location to test, or if they used FD and Mario at all, but the chart said uthrow would kill at 203% and I couldn't get it to kill until 216% from Mario's starting location (on the side of the stage as opposed to in the middle). So given I used the chart's methods of calculations, uthrow's knockback has been nerfed.
Which is probably a good thing, as it might lead into followups at very low percents.
In lieu of official patch notes we will be opting for community based patch notes (again). But either way or otherwise, the discussion of the what's changed in this patch is to be kept to here. Besides the title teasing otherwise, Mewtwo discussion should be kept to relevant character discussion forums.
Compared to what became a really clean list of changes thanks to @Aerodrome, the initial impact before we get data dumps from @Dantarion / others will be messy and full of speculation, placebo effect and confirmation bias. Multiple trusted sources confirming a change and/or visual comparisons will be required to make the shortlist of changes listed here in the mean time. We may yet again have engine changes (such as DI, rage, ledges, etc) to worry about.
For the sake of everyone's sanity please try to be somewhat certain before stating a change, and remember the search feature exists for use within a thread~
I can say this with 99% certainty, Samus' F-tilt now has 4 hitboxes.
A 5%(sour) hit, 6%(sour) hit, 7%(sweet?) hit and 8%(sweet) hit, instead of only a 7%(sweet) hit and 6%(sour) hit.
Could be considered a buff or a nerf, I see it as a buff.
I can confirm NEW CHANGES (Testing 3 versions: 1.02 3DS, 1.05 3DS, 1.06 Wii U):
RobinF Levin Sword Durability Indicator Glitch FIXED (Did not Flash for Female in previous Wii U versions)
Wind jab is faster, Hits connect significantly more consistently, including the final hit.
Books no longer disappear (despite being picked up) if they touch a platform. (BATTLEFIELD BUFF)
All damage values are identical.
Dash/Walk and Airspeeds are the same.
At first I thought Zelda was 100% unchanged, (Which is really sad lol.) but upon closer inspection of her multi-hit smash attacks, there is little doubt to me that Fsmash (And quite possibly Usmash.) received a tiny bit of tuning improving their possibility of connecting all the way through.
Fsmash on ZSS in 1.0.4-5, it would cause ZSS to be shot behind her in a tumble animation, even when ZSS was on the ground. Now, ZSS when hit by the multi-hits of Fsmash does not go into any tumble animation, even when tested at 999%. (Ground and air.) Sometimes I can still get it to drop characters, but now it takes more work to drop poeple (Other than just ZSS as well.) than it does to connect properly now. I'm not as sure that Usmash really got any improvements.
Zelda Forward Smash Some alteration(s) made to the loop hit-boxes strengthening its ability to connect properly.
@ChronoPenguin
I tried using the KO% chart linked in the OP to figure this out. Couldn't see whether they used Mario on FD in the middle or at the starting location to test, or if they used FD and Mario at all, but the chart said uthrow would kill at 203% and I couldn't get it to kill until 216% from Mario's starting location (on the side of the stage as opposed to in the middle). So given I used the chart's methods of calculations, uthrow's knockback has been nerfed.
Which is probably a good thing, as it might lead into followups at very low percents.
It uses center stage as the starting point. Given that it seems fairly drastic.
Kirbys Down-throw is killing earlier then previously recorded, probably due to the increased damage he has received. So unless the pastebin is wrong, they specifically went in to decrease the U-throw KB.
I feel this is fairly decent supporting evidence of a decreased KB in tandem with your results. Though perhaps its the angle.
So I was playing as Shulk and managed to escape a Fox jab lock by DI'ing away from the jabs, after about 5 sets of jabs. Before the patch, I recall this was inescapable. Can anyone confirm this?
EDIT: Ike and Ganon can escape by DIing sideways after about 5 sets of jabs as well. I'm testing on 3DS, 1/4th speed, all of them at mid % (50-70). Something else I noticed is they can jump almost immediately after the 3rd set of jabs, though they get clipped by the next jab. Could it be possible to shield after the 3rd jab?
Uthrow to fair isnt comboing into anyone new so I highly doubt some super minor trajectory change on uthrow.
I gave a quick look doesn't look like zard got any less endlag on Mon his aerials or anything. Barring small damage buffs, the inllonly thing to check is bair and fly for startup and being easier to sweet spot, respectively. Sadly my 3dsmash is in a fiends car, so I only have SMASH U.
I've been testing upsmash and I can only get this to work sometimes. I've never examined this move too closely before but it seems to have some sort of sweetspot on the third hit that deals more knockback that the second hit doesn't always link into.
Also that's without Mario D.I.ing or vectoring or whatever. With proper D.I. 123% is still the definite kill point.
Changes:
-I think rocksmash got buffed. According to the framedata I found in the guide section, it should do a max total of 23%, but it now does 29%. EDIT:
Here's a gif of Rock Smash doing 29% on Lucina. If you get every hit in, it seems to do 29%.
According to frame data for 1.0.4, the three hit boxes do 14%, 6%, and then 3%. This equals 23, which means Rock Smash has been buffed.
-I think his up throw also got buffed. It does 11%, and according to frame data, it should do 8% Not sure if I'm reading it wrong.
That's all the changed I found with him. I can't judge knockback since I don't play as him. I ask anyone who mains/seconds him to see if they notice anything, and tell me. If you do, I'll add it to my post.
Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what exactly was wrong with Lylat Cruise's ledges before the patch? I don't own a Wii U so I've never played on it, and I haven't really seen many matches on that stage.
Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what exactly was wrong with Lylat Cruise's ledges before the patch? I don't own a Wii U so I've never played on it, and I haven't really seen many matches on that stage.
I can confirm NEW CHANGES (Testing 3 versions: 1.02 3DS, 1.05 3DS, 1.06 Wii U):
RobinF Levin Sword Durability Indicator Glitch FIXED (Did not Flash for Female in previous Wii U versions)
Wind jab is faster, Hits connect significantly more consistently, including the final hit.
Books no longer disappear (despite being picked up) if they touch a platform. (BATTLEFIELD BUFF)
All damage values are identical.
Dash/Walk and Airspeeds are the same.
: GIMME MY BRAWL F-SMASH NAW!
