Metaknight's worst matchups

[EternalCrusade]

I never said u suck, my bro rarely goes on SBR but he goes by Aoshi Shinomori.

lol I know you didnt I was just pokin fun at myself

and yea, Aoshi is good, I'd like to play him again soon. And I need to play you too, last time we tried though I ended up playing your other brother I guess, the snake player :/

 

[DynamicDuo]

yea i got 2 bros the snake player goes by SPY but he isn't at me and aoshi's level he just play's for fun. And sometimes my friends come over during the weekend so u never know who ur gonna get lol

 

[chenjesu]

Game and Watch poses a large threat to metaknight if he can space his air moves and fire-stick.

 

[ckm]

all the people that are saying projectiles = bad matchup for MK... well, mach tornado will eat most projectiles and burn right through em. Even drill rush will burn through many of them. Links projectiles, pits, fox's, etc. The only projectiles I ever have problems with are Falco's, Snake's, and Wolf's. (and falco's are not really worth mentioning because they are just a bit of damage... no real risk there) Im sure there are others, but those are the first ones that come to mind.

As far as characters being tough to play, I would say that a good snake player or a good lucas player give me the most problems, but that could just be my personal experience. Lucas especially, for me... His bat owns me at such low percentages... and I need to rack up damage on him to kill him. Basically, I deal like 2x the damage that he does, but still lose because his **** stick will KO me at 80%...

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is the same BS I'm dealing with in the Marth threads.

Saying MK is bad vs projectiles is not a valid argument since it's not even true.

He has alot of ways of dealing with them.

It's because everyone is running around like a chicken with their head cut off saying how amazing projectile camping is and if you don't play a projectile character it's auto lose.

Sorry, but MK as well as a few other characters don't give a **** about your projectiles. Only Falco and Toon Link can really camp MK effectively and even then he has answers.

 

[Captain MK]

Link gives me a hell of a time.
Stupid range.

I fear Ike's fast KO abilities.

Snake and Ike.

For obvious reasons.

Yeah, Ike's KO potential is a little rediculous but I think that his moves are a bit predictable. I was playing a pretty good Ike player not too long ago and I just kept on dancing around him until I racked up enough damage on him to KO him with my side smash. Also, I was able to spam Mach Tornado on this player because he seemed to have difficulty avoiding it.

 

[supercake]

marth vs mk is one of the easiest matchups in the game for mk. marth cant camp so mk has nothing much to worry about. just drill bit and mach tornado every now and then and youll be fine.

 

[Dynamism?]

Pit is an obvious choice. Projectiles give Meta Knight problems. Thankfully, Pit is one of my mains. The shield could be used as an offensive weapon (this is a pro's tactic). Arrows are typical. I dont need to say anything else about this magnificient Angel ^^

Zelda causes trouble with Din's Fire. As we all know, Brawl's Din's fire has greater explosion range and is easier to control. Zelda's kill moves (The lightning kicks, U-Smash, F-Smash, U-Air and sometimes D-Smash) have chances of KOing Meta Knight before he hits the 100% line, especially U-air. Her teleportation, when used a lot (This is my strategy) can cause frustration for Meta Knight. The Projectile is the main reason.

Though I think Donkey Kong is 100% Meta Knight counter, he's still a decent counter. With all those KO moves, the Meta Knight player had better know how to avoid the moves before he gets to the 100% line, or lights out. DK's F-Smash and U-Smash are 2 dangerous attacks that can KO Meta fast.

Similar to DK's, Bowser is a Tank and it takes a while for Meta Knight to KO him. If Bowser's Power attacks connect, Meta Knight will be in trouble. Bowser is only effective in close-combat, and without Projectiles, Meta Knight must engage the Tank. Fire breath causes trouble when used correctly. In this matchup, skill can play a major factor in achieving victory. A pro Bowser could level even a pro Meta Knight if that Meta does not have much defensive skills.

I dont know why I'm mentioning a character I hate, but Pikachu... yea. His Thunder does good when Meta Knight is Gliding. I know this because my Pit suffered from some Pika Thunders by gliding (Even though i still say Pit is a counter to Pika). Pika's Projectile is also trouble.

A Link player that has mastered his projectiles can pose a threat to Meta Knight.

Marth outranges Meta Knight, but i dont want to talk about this guy, because I dont like him.

That's all I can give you. May it help you well.
This is the Admiral, Over and Out.

DK, Zelda, Yoshi, Snake, Pika (he counters everyone lol) for sure. Ike and Link I'd say have the upper hand too. Marth...not as much but can be a problem, counter in particular.

I pretty much have to say you nailed it lol

 

[Emblem Lord]

marth vs mk is one of the easiest matchups in the game for mk. marth cant camp so mk has nothing much to worry about. just drill bit and mach tornado every now and then and youll be fine.

Play a good Marth plz.

Also did you miss the huge debate Marth vs MK earlier in this thread?

 

[StealthFighterX]

Marth will most always have the slight advantage over meta. Couple nights ago i had a epic meta vs marth match we were tied all the way threw the match. Emblem lord is correct and right on every post he makes. He's got options range and power vs meta speed. Mach tornado too much and u'll just eat Shield Breaker. Its better to wait for a opening and rush in and attack. Dont play stupid with marth u'll be eating alot of Fsmash's and Dsmash's just because your faster. Its somthing i even gotta get control over.

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

@Emblem Lord
... I think you're overestimating Marth a bit. Meta Knight does indeed have a noticeable speed difference over Marth...

Agreed, Marth lacks in approaches, has punishable lag on his ranged hits and is a bit slower. But, I still feel that the fight between them results in Marth's favor simply because his ability to DI his "Ken Combo"(sh ->A, ->A) now. Very little lag coming down; for those who try to approach, will open up Marth's options.
MK's true troubles lie with projectiles, specifically with projectiles that stun. Though, explosives may, in some conditions, serve the same purpose. Exapmples:
- Wolf's laser. Almost impossible to follow up, but can definitely slow him down and open up your pressure options.
- Falco's sh double shot(lag cancel-able). Which you can follow up with combos or chain grab.
- Pit's, Link's TL's arrows, serving the same purposes as Wolf's laser.
- Lucas' and Ness' PK Fire.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are silly.

Marth, MK, and Lucario have the most approach options in the game.

And there is no punishable lag on the moves he uses to approach except for Dancing Blade.

You clearly aren't ready yet so I won't debate you.

 

[Kayzee]

I'd say Snake, and Wolf are Meta Knight's worst matchups. Why? Because of their projectiles and ranged moves.

 

[ulzimate]

Anyone who knows how to shield is Metaknight's worst matchup.

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

You are silly.
Marth, MK, and Lucario have the most approach options in the game.
And there is no punishable lag on the moves he uses to approach except for Dancing Blade.
You clearly aren't ready yet so I won't debate you.

Rude much?

I dont believe that there is a definite when talking about approach options...in any competitive game...considering that play styles vary amongst players and wont have the same effect on every person you play. Very much how some players in this thread prefer to approach from the air with MK. Yet on the other hand, Ive heard most pros tend to want to stay grounded and abuse his jabs, as they are nearly impossible to punish. The approaches one may use will vary depending on the character, prefered play style, stage, skill and ability to cope against these two different MK's. There is just too much to take into account to accurately make a statement like that.

 

[Emblem Lord]

What?

Dude. Some moves sucka s approaches and others dont. There aren't too many tings to take into account at all.

Marth, Lucario and MK have the best approachs due to their speed, range, disjoitned hitboxes and good options.

I wrote a friggin guide on how to approach with Marth in melee. I think I know a thing or two.

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

Thats cool.
Couple questions: (not trying to be rude) What would you writing a guide for SSBM have to do with stating your opinion about SSBB?
Why would that prioritize your opinion over mine(or anyone elses)? Disregarding the possibility that I myself, or many of the other smashers here for that matter, may have twice as much experience with the series. Not only in casual matches, but in tournament based environments as well.
Just curious...

From my experience, Ive noticed that there is definitely a lot take into when approaching an opponent, especially against a high caliber player. Like every competitive fighting game, the game becomes more of a mental battle with better players. Gaining supremacy over a battle by out-predicting your opponents movements and pressuring their faults. But, Im sure you already know...

 

[Emblem Lord]

All of what you just said is nice...but meaningless.

Approaching is about using moves that minimize risk while maximizing reward. To be able to pressure effectively and safely is what it takes to have a good approach. Playing smart and mindgames...I'm not even talking about that and that's not what we are discussing at all. You originally said Marth lacks approach options which is just blatantly false. This is alone shows that my opinion should be prioritzed over yours. Also you said Marth's Ken combo is SH Fair Fair. Which it isn't. So I very much doubt you have more exp within the community then I do. FYI the Ken combo is Fair jump Dair. It no longer works in Brawl due to low hitstun and the new airdodging mechanic.

Yes, of course at the highest level the game is about out thinking and predicting, but having the tools is just as important as having the mindset and the prediction skills. Which is where a good approach comes in.

There is a reason why alot of players say that only Marth and MK are the two non-projectile characters that can approach projectile campers effectively. They have the tools for a great approach that allows them to get past projectile camping with relative ease and then apply pressure to an opponent.

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

Right...
Never said Marth lacked in approach options altogether. I play Marth (pretty well IMO) and Im well aware of all of his characteristics. If I remember correctly, this thread is about match ups for MK. When I had stated my opinion, the main focus was specifically Marth vs MK. I had mentioned believing that, from experience, Marth has limited approaching options when facing MK. MK's speed, priority and virtually zero lag time make him difficult to approach for most characters. I also left a list of, again in my experience, effective approach options for projectilists.

Last I checked, Ken combo is indeed SH ->A,->A, and SH ->A, dair is a finishing option for it (very much like FF L-cancelling the SH ->A ->A into fsmash is a common finishing option)... which like you said, no longer works in SSBB.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth shouldn't even BE approaching MK.

Which means...this debate is pointless.

YAY!!!!!!

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

YOU dont approach MK with with Marth. I find that abusing the few approach options he has against him to work just fine. From experience and conversations with other equally skilled smashers or better, Ive learned that playing defensively and leaving MK unchecked will open his options greatly. Like I said before: speed, high priority and virtually no punishable lag on almost all of his moves will jab away at you slowly but surely. You cant shield tap everything.
Anyway, as you said, this debate is pointless. Its obvious we're two totally different types of smashers, with different mindsets and playstyles. I do admire your knowledge of the game and hopefully we can learn something from eachother.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth, Lucario and MK have the best approachs due to their speed, range, disjoitned hitboxes and good options.

You forgot Mr. G&W.

G&W's shield stabbing B-air is too good. His N-air is also extremely hard to punish. Even the D-air also has a high probability of shield stabbing. The best part is how the lag on all of these attacks is quite low. If you're going to rag on speed, G&W can also move vertically extremely fast with his Up-B, which can be canceled into even more aerial attacks.

On topic, G&W seems to be a legitimate challenge against Metaknight. Metaknight will get killed at lower percents than G&W, and G&W rivals his disjointed range. You should especially watch out for G&W's D-smash, which is fairly quick, has an invisible hitbox, and sweetspotted can kill Metaknight at like 100% easily.

 

[lmnz]

@ everyone who picked snake: go watch edge lol. he beat dsf's snake in tournament but sadly it wasn't recorded and made dsf switch vs him. =o

 

[SENG]

yep idk how he did it but he jus beat the best snake with MK at tournament

 

[BluMilk]

DK, Zelda, Yoshi, Snake, Pika (he counters everyone lol) for sure. Ike and Link I'd say have the upper hand too. Marth...not as much but can be a problem, counter in particular.

I pretty much have to say you nailed it lol

ok whoever said Dk as a counter for meta is smoking crack. Sure DK can kill meta at low percents, but a GOOD meta can attack so fast its difficult to hit him even once. I currently main DK and have played a seasoned veteran MK and i got 4 stocked. Seriously MK is DK's worst match-up. Think of it like this:

the #1 easy character to combo
v.s.
the #1 (or #2 behind Lucario?) easy character to combo with

who do you think wins?

DK ftl


As far as zelda goes it sounds pretty legit. Zelda has a great up-smash which plays against meta's greatest weakness; verticle kills. Meta's approch options are cut in half because of her high powered long lasting smashes.
Plus she has a great projectile.

Of course since im not a meta main this is all speculation on my part. Can anyone confim?

 

[Browny]

i think lucario is a good pick, for the same reasons as stated before Re: approaching options. lucario can prevent being edgeguarded probably a little better than marth with aura sphere and lucarios aerials outrange any combo attempts by MK. if MK doesnt kill lucario below 100% (which he WONT) hes going to be in a world of pain with aura sphere, and even if MK somehow manages to the first kill, say he is still on 100%, 1 double team from lucario at 0% can kill MK, im not sure about the % at which is does, it changes for each stage but it has serious vertical knocback, MK's worst type. Lucarios #1 weakness suddenly is negated by MK's extremely lightweight

 

[atlast4]

pretty much anyone with good range and decent speed is a huge threat to MK because if he is both out ranged and out sped he possesses little to no chance of winning the match.

olimar or pit are most likely worst matchups IMO.

 

[StealthFighterX]

pretty much anyone with good range and decent speed is a huge threat to MK because if he is both out ranged and out sped he possesses little to no chance of winning the match.

olimar or pit are most likely worst matchups IMO.

Mk has great range on his attacks. Thats not a problem. His attacks come out lightning fast. Also thats not a problem. If what you say was true..DK would own MK..which isnt gonna happen. Olimar is a pain in the *** but using f-tilt against his pikmin should slice them away because of its great range and speed. Its pretty close to marths attack. Dont forget about D-tilt's awsome range and speed...and can be used for the spacing game. And pit...hes only got his arrows. Just SH airdodge in close and F-tilt and if he rolls punish with Tornado or D-smash. In fact use that for the protectile spammers and u'll be alright.

 

[BluMilk]

Mk has great range on his attacks. Thats not a problem. His attacks come out lightning fast. Also thats not a problem. If what you say was true..DK would own MK..which isnt gonna happen. Olimar is a pain in the *** but using f-tilt against his pikmin should slice them away because of its great range and speed. Its pretty close to marths attack. Dont forget about D-tilt's awsome range and speed...and can be used for the spacing game. And pit...hes only got his arrows. Just SH airdodge in close and F-tilt and if he rolls punish with Tornado or D-smash. In fact use that for the protectile spammers and u'll be alright.

so......who would you say does have an advantage over MK?

 

[R1ngo]

Stealthfighter should not be posting..... watch his videos and you will know why. MK out classes almost every character. I've been to a few tournaments and the characters that seem to have an edge on MK are Snake and Wolf. They hit very hard and can make effective use of projectiles. But if the player isn't good enough and smart enough it doesn't really matter. MK's real strenth relies on his ability to relentlessly attack an opponent and keep them from being able to attack you with much affectiveness.
The quote i hear most lately is "&#@ #(@*$ R1ngo! Can I PLEASE land an attack!" i reply with a no and continue, all of you should do the same

 

[StealthFighterX]

Snake does have a advantage thats true. But my info is solid about countering projectiles. It can work against rob, wolf, pit, and diddy. Marth is mk's worst match up..a well played one. Again mk's got speed, marth's got power, range, and options. And dude...ive just picked up mk...of course my vids arent going to be very good! But that shouldnt stop me from posting information that i know and learned now and other people have told me. >_<

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Marth, Wolf, and Snake eh...

 

[boss8]

luigi....mario??? luigi b-up kills metaknight at 35%

 

[R1ngo]

marth is not the worst matchup, MK vs Marth is a very amazing match, watching 2 skilled players is amazing, marth is not quite as fast but he hits much harder. I personally dont' have any problems with marths b/c i play against them so often and i played marth alot in melee, knowing your opponet is the biggest thing about a matchup. If you want to see the marth i play watch Shrinkray21's videos . I personally hope in my upcoming tournament i don't face a snake/wolf/diddy they are all good characters and its hard to find people who play them well. Meta Knight is truly the best character in brawl imo, with a sound strategy you could beat anyone, from now on in this thread lets concentrate on sound strategies to beat what people think are "bad matchups" i'm willing to slowly start posting videos possibly on ways to beat characters like marth pit and olimar, i play against them often and i think i have a pretty good idea on how to take them down.
Sound ok?

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

luigi....mario??? luigi b-up kills metaknight at 35%

And how often do you get that off? >_> Not too often.

I'd say Snake, if anyone.

 

[kazaken455]

Olimar always seems to be a pain. But I main Olimar as well as Metaknight so I just notice this when I **** a Metaknight as Olimar. Oh well. Link is pretty hard for me when I'm MK too. His projectiles can be annoying.

 

[Infinitysmash]

To anyone complaining about projectiles: Mach Tornado will out-priority nearly any projectile that isn't large and doesn't explode. Pit is not a hard matchup unless you don't use your spacing and tornado correctly, Mach Tornado will eat his projectile and go through most of his attacks.

Snake is hands down the worst matchup for Metaknight. The hitbox on his up tilt is disjointed just far enough that he can hit a Metaknight rushing in with a forward air or attempting to grab. His genades explode when you hit him or when you tornado them and using shield bombing is also very effective. to counter this you need to use your best mind games and move Snake to the edge and hit him with the back swing on your down smash; it will kill Snake in the low hundreds when you're near the edge on Final Destination.

I don't have time to address the Marth matchup atm, I'll post again later or edit this one.

 

[DynamicDuo]

so far this is still MK worst match-ups:

Wolf, R.O.B., DK, G&W, and Snake

 

[thebasman]

Well, Snake, obviously... but what about Lucas? I'm actually not sure about this matchup because on the one hand Lucas's recovery is infinitely gimpable with 2 or 3 well placed dairs at any amount of damage, but on the other hand Lucas usmash will kill at like 55 damage on a lot of stages. Thoughts?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Bah, I hated Lucas! His U-smash ruins my chances of Glide attacks, and with his annoying range and projectiles, I couldnt do much. Then again, idk what Lucas' bad matchup is anyways.